Author Topic: Questions about war  (Read 2206 times)

Offline IrishReloaded

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Questions about war
« on: 15-12-2011, 00:12:13 »
So I open this topic as we have some forum users here that read a lot about war, and have good knowdlegde about almost everything concerning this.

Some rules. Please post the question as detailed as possible. Any time peroid is allowed, WW2 will dominate I guess.

No political discussions please.

For the answer please quote the question so that we dont get confused.


My first two questions:

1)How deep in km was the HKL (Hauptkampflinie, main battle line) in 1943 at the eastern front. How can you imagine that. How far were the enemies away from each other?


2) How much ammunition was official orderd for one Wehrmachtsoldier per day?

Offline SiCaRiO

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #1 on: 15-12-2011, 00:12:49 »
dont know if this help, but this page has the whole easter front timeline, with battles, sieges, veterans tales,etc.

http://english.pobediteli.ru/flash.html

it kinda helped me understand the magnitud of the assault, as you can see the frontline was hundres of KM

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #2 on: 15-12-2011, 00:12:43 »
Depends on the place in the frontline.  Sometimes it was a few km apart, sometimes it was (like at leningrad) just a 100 meters or less.  Some were just various strong points built into small cities, in other places it was areas of marshland seperating them, and in still others it was actual trench and bunker works.

As for how deep, once again varied.  Generally, it was prob as deep as the farthest artillery batteries, so 10km or so.  Beyond that would be reserve units, hospitals, supply depots, etc.

As for ammunition, in theory you were supposed to carry 60 rounds in your pouches, plus 120 rounds in your rucksack.  In practice, the amount varied, due to lack of supply, combat, etc.  There was no "day ration", you used what you had and resupplied when you needed, or when the entire unit resupplied.  You would also generally carry a box of ammo, or at least a belt, for the squad's MG.

Offline Butcher

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #3 on: 15-12-2011, 02:12:46 »
i always wondered about this one: i saw a documentary about kamikaze pilots and it turned out they were drugged for their "last deployment" with crystal meth (so that they felt invincible etc).
then i heard that germans gave their tank crews some stuff ("panzerfahrer-schokolade"/ "tank drivers chocolate"), which was basically cocaine. is that right? and if yes how common was that? was the average tank crew/soldier in WW2 on drugs?

the essential questions would be:

1) did german tank crews get cocaine?
2) was it common to drug the average soldiers (of any side)  or was that something sepcifically done for special troops (like air crews, kamikaze).
« Last Edit: 15-12-2011, 02:12:39 by Butcher »
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Offline LHeureux

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #4 on: 15-12-2011, 02:12:59 »
Why giving cocaine to tank crew?
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Offline VonMudra

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #5 on: 15-12-2011, 02:12:30 »
i always wondered about this one: i saw a documentary about kamikaze pilots and it turned out they were drugged for their "last deployment" with crystal meth (so that they felt invincible etc).
then i heard that germans gave their tank crews some stuff ("panzerfahrer-schokolade"/ "tank drivers chocolate"), which was basically cocaine. is that right? and if yes how common was that? was the average tank crew/soldier in WW2 on drugs?

the essential questions would be:

1) did german tank crews get cocaine?
2) was it common to drug the average soldiers (of any side)  or was that something sepcifically done for special troops (like air crews, kamikaze).

Not cocaine, but yes to methamphetamine.  It was a newly discovered wonder drug, that would keep the soldier awake night and day, and always ready for action.  It was given to FJ at Crete, and afterwards to troops going into an offensive or such.  Italians used it as well.  Russians tended to just use alcohol.

To quote wiki:

Quote
One of the earliest uses of methamphetamine was during World War II, when it was used by Axis and Allied forces.[88] The German and Finnish militaries dispensed it under the trademark name Pervitin. It was widely distributed across rank and division, from elite forces to tank crews and aircraft personnel, with many millions of tablets being distributed throughout the war.[89] From 1942 until his death in 1945, Adolf Hitler may have been given intravenous injections of methamphetamine by his personal physician Theodor Morell. It is possible that it was used to treat Hitler's speculated Parkinson's disease, or that his Parkinson-like symptoms that developed from 1940 onwards resulted from using methamphetamine.[90] In Japan, methamphetamine was sold under the registered trademark of Philopon (ヒロポン hiropon?) by Dainippon Pharmaceuticals (present-day Dainippon Sumitomo Pharma) for civilian and military use. As with the rest of the world at the time, the side effects of methamphetamine were not well studied, and regulation was not seen as necessary. In the 1940s and 1950s the drug was widely administered to Japanese industrial workers to increase their productivity.[91]

Offline Stefan

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #6 on: 15-12-2011, 03:12:14 »
was also used by british pilots. My grandad found out after finding chocolat in a box that said "aircrew only" though he didnt know what it meant back then, he said he was awake for a few days ;)
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Offline hOMEr_jAy

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #7 on: 15-12-2011, 10:12:33 »
The "Der erste Zug" homepage has a really interesting article about the use of Pervitin, too. So if you´d like to read more about drug use (and abuse) in the German Army I´d recomend reading it.
This homepage also has other pretty interesting articles about WW2 everyday life, military manners and personel items.
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Offline Kelmola

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #8 on: 15-12-2011, 10:12:46 »
i always wondered about this one: i saw a documentary about kamikaze pilots and it turned out they were drugged for their "last deployment" with crystal meth (so that they felt invincible etc).
Just read a book about kamikaze pilots and it did not mention drugging them at all (excluding a cup of sake upon departure). "Only" indoctrination, religious brainwashing, and intense social pressure in addition to a completely different cultural background. Both positive feedback (better meals than rank-and-file, heavy implication of sexual services) and negative feedback (beatings, drills), with their entire lifes transformed into a religious ritual culminating in the "deployment".

Many (if not most) of them were "volunteers", once one pilot from a squadron had genuinely volunteered, the rest couldn't back out without losing face and/or being branded as cowards. Towards the end of the war, volunteers were not really even needed anymore, because they started to conscript students to become kamikazes with minimal training in order to save real pilots for proper missions. So they sometimes had to be coerced into the planes and many kept turning back from missions (well the introduction of the Ohka got rid of this problem), being "unable to find a suitable target". Sometimes they were assigned back to regular squadrons, sometimes shot, but eventually most would give in to peer pressure and find a target (or die trying, which was still infinitely more likely).

---

As for Pervitin, the höökipulveri (literally: "assault powder", even though the wartime doses were tablets, powderized form was only sold post-war), as it was known in Finland, became a real problem post-war because during the war it had been given out generously (many soldiers had stocks of it upon homecoming), and on top of that, it remained for quite some time an over-the-counter medicine. (Pervitin was eventually reformulated to contain aspirin and caffeine instead of meth, until even the trade name was withdrawn.) Doping tests being not invented yet, it became commonplace in skiing contests to mix Pervitin in blueberry soup (eating pills might have seemed unsportmanship, drinking juice wouldn't), with the result being that functionaries had to keep guiding the skiers back on course, because they were too high to notice where the track went anymore.

Of course, heroin was also legal and available in pharmacies in Finland until 1957. It was supposedly used as cough syrup. Finland had been chastised by the League of Nations already before the war for this practice, but during the war, heroin pretty much displaced the other cough medicines because it was cheaper and easier to produce, and could be used as a replacement for morphine when necessary. Even after heroin was banned, opiates did not vanish overnight, a diarrhea medicine containing opium was sold as an over-the-counter medicine until completely withdrawn in 2008.

Offline IrishReloaded

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #9 on: 15-12-2011, 11:12:21 »
[Sidenote to Kelomas post: The bad abbilites of drugs were just not known in those time, when there was not even antibioticas. There was radioactive stuff sold against rheumatism^^]

Does anyone know how far German Navy attacked? Everyone know the story about Graf Spee made it till Montevideo. Or several U boats "camping" in St Lorenz Golf to attack the HX convoys. But were there some near Australia or in the north polar sea north of Russia ?

Offline siben

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #10 on: 15-12-2011, 11:12:42 »
During WW1 there was a massive drug factory in the Netherlands, they made novocaïne, morfine, heroïne and efedrine. During WW1 they sold to pretty much every army.

I am thinking drug use in the army is a very old habbit. Any army.

Sorry that the links are in dutch, did not find it in English.

http://www.rnw.nl/nederlands/article/nederlandse-coca%C3%AFnefabriek-maakte-vechtmachines-van-soldaten

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlandsche_Coca%C3%AFnefabriek

http://youtu.be/TZ5_MOmWc2I

Offline IrishReloaded

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #11 on: 15-12-2011, 11:12:58 »
dont forgett that "The Dose Makes the Poison" So sure you can use all those as medicine, and as a drug in common sense too.

Cocaine can still be used in eye surgery ^^ As local drug

Offline MaJ.P.Bouras

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #12 on: 15-12-2011, 11:12:23 »
Was there really a spear like gun throwing Greek? I've been trying to find a single post over the internets (apart from here) but no luck....

Offline sn00x

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #13 on: 15-12-2011, 15:12:36 »
Did the germans at any time, use a captured american 105mm howitzer?

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Questions about war
« Reply #14 on: 15-12-2011, 19:12:24 »
Never seen it, but it is not outside the realm of possibilities.