Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Singleplayer and Coop => Topic started by: djinn on 24-01-2010, 15:01:33
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Little one, but it might prove to be a melting pot of other 2.25 issues/ facts pertaining to this map
My question is, what vehicle/ v3ehicles/ factors are causing the CTD after loadup and can I just replace them or is there a replacement file around? I tried replacing the M4A1 Euro with the M4A1 Euro Brit as was mentioned in another thread, but it still CTDed on schedule
Anything?
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I changed the euro to sherman olive or late alt olive works for me.
there are 2 input of the euro to change in the objects file.
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Ok, so I fixed this. I always forget not to edit the rar file but extract it, save and it and put it back
Noted some really interesting things with bots... but I think it should go into the AI and vehicles thread.
However, I will say, for the map - Like Zoomotorpool, once said, its probably better to have American bots attacking the uncap Axis flag - Allow for more fighting in the fields around the town and lets thr Americans defend all bases a bit better since they are too reactive, only retaking flags once they are lost, rather than defending all 4 at a go... although it may cause riot for you if you are an American squad captain with the commander spamming you to cap the German main
However, if this is implemented, I don't think Germans, after capping all bases, should move on to the uncap-pable American base - Their tanks are too powerful in this map as is
For Sidi Rezeigh, the same should go for the Brits - As well as removing as many of those heavy tanks as possible, perhaps teaching medium tanks to use capped-AP shells against heavier tanks too
A map that could use defending bots NOT attacking the enemy uncap-pable base is Seige Tobruk, since moving into the open space between them and the German base doesn't quite work for them and their tanks seem to own the Germans making it impossible for Jerry to even cap the first line bases
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...I always forget not to edit the rar file but extract it, save and it and put it back...
Hang on...you extract the whole server.zip and then re-zip it??
When I change vehicles, I just go to the file I want to edit (in WinRAR), double-click to open it and when I'm done I close (and save) it.
That's it...the archive will update itself. ;)
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I think I've finally worked out how to fix the Luttich bug: It's due to an error with the AI scripting for the turret-mounted .50 cal MG mount attached to some Sherman variants. One workaround mentioned is to replace the Shermans with other tank types, but after some looking through the AI data files, I think I've found a way to fix the problem directly.
Open "vehicles\land\US\m4a1_turret_gunner\ai\objects.ai" in objects_vehicles_server.zip and change the following lines at the end of the file:
aiTemplate.addPlugIn m4a1_turret_gunnerRearGunnerArms
aiTemplate.addPlugIn m4a1_turret_gunnerRearGunnerUnit
aiTemplate.addPlugIn m4a1_turret_gunnerRearGunnerCtrl
to:
aiTemplate.addPlugIn m4a1_turret_gunnerTopGunnerArms
aiTemplate.addPlugIn m4a1_turret_gunnerTopGunnerUnit
aiTemplate.addPlugIn m4a1_turret_gunnerTopGunnerCtrl
With this change, Luttich now loads in both SP and co-op modes. I haven't tested it enough to see if the AI uses the Sherman gun mounts correctly (it doesn't help that bots don't spawn at the base with the US tanks, at least at the start of the game) but they should be OK.
I think the "HMG_M2HB" weapon attached to the m4a1_turret_gunner object is also missing an AI template; it's defined as "Stationary_M2HB_AI" but there is no AI template with this name. I don't think this will crash the game, however (though it'll probably prevent the AI from using the gun effectively) but it's fairly easy to add the missing AI template, or edit the weapon to use an AI template from an existing weapon (such as the M1919A4 .30 cal)
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Hooray! We've got a Normandy map with vehicles that works! :)
...I haven't tested it enough to see if the AI uses the Sherman gun mounts correctly (it doesn't help that bots don't spawn at the base with the US tanks, at least at the start of the game) but they should be OK...
They certainly do, although the bot on the coax MG (seat 2) in the M4A1 aims but doesn't fire.
I changed those 3 lines and played a whole round - no CTD. Nice one, Drawde :)
Drove an M4A1 towards Mortain and picked up a pair of hitch-hikers on the way. While I was looking for a target for the turret gunner, I was startled by a bazooka firing right next to me. Turns out it was the bot sitting on the back of my tank... ;D
I dunno what Legion did, but ever since he fiddled with the ai, Luttich has been filled with snipers...snipers that carry bazookas...(see pic - bot sitting on the tank is shooting at something so far away I can't see it)...
(cont.)...
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...and if you get lucky and pick up the right hitch-hikers...you end up with the ultimate anti-tank tank... ;D
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They certainly do, although the bot on the coax MG (seat 2) in the M4A1 aims but doesn't fire.
The problem I believe is that the AI for the hull MG is created in the object AI but not created in the weapons AI. In fact most of the US and GB tanks do not have any hull MG AI entries.
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I don't know if its just my 1GB RAM PC, but it got to a point where the Yanks had recapped all the bases and the attack simply stopped - All German tanks remained at their base occupied, engine running, but no one attacking, infantry stood around - Only a hanomag or two would come to town, get blown by all the tanks parked there and rinse, repeat
I hope to TK the infantry and jump in the driver's side of the tank, switch with a bot, in order to get that vehicle moving again..
What's with that? And yer, I can't emphasize enough: American bots should be ordered to attack the German main and MAYBE, if Germans don't pwn the Yanks too much by doing so, the Germans should also attempt to attack the American main once THEY cap all town flags
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The problem I believe is that the AI for the hull MG is created in the object AI but not created in the weapons AI. In fact most of the US and GB tanks do not have any hull MG AI entries.
Cool, after I fix all my stationary guns (read this: http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=4251.0 ), I'll see if I can fix that.
The Germans are quite happy to use the hull MG on their tanks. Infantry don't stand a chance when both MG's (hull and turret) are blazing away.
I don't know if its just my 1GB RAM PC, but it got to a point where the Yanks had recapped all the bases and the attack simply stopped - All German tanks remained at their base occupied, engine running, but no one attacking, infantry stood around...
I noticed the same thing, got worse the longer the round went. The bots love those turret MG's (both sides), more so than the driver's seat. ::)
Although I found they weren't even getting in the driver's seat, just getting on the MG and sitting there. And it's not only tanks, it's halftracks too. Same with the Greyhound...one bot sat on it's MG for about 15 minutes before I had to go and get him.
I don't know why, but this problem seems to be a lot worse on the German side...so much so that I spent almost half the round switching bots into driver's seats and chasing infantry around with a Kubelwagon in the German main... :P
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Djinn, a map with anti-base-camping (ABC) system makes attacking uncap base impossible.
I only propose that for maps without ABC like Bardia for example. It can replicate both counter attack or concentrated defense point, however, with ABC... they'll just die crossing the ABC area.
About zook sniper, i think Legion hasn't change the range of the bazooka ai template yet. He said he set the range into the real world value of 300-600 m IIRC.
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yer, well they fire the shrek and zook alot less, which is actually a cool thing. But maybe, not so fun - I actually miss getting shreked when using the AT gun for cover against the German onslaught.
@ CannonFodder
Yer, I now really, really hate bots ability to camp vehicles indefinitely- *Looking up into the sky* "stationaries only, stationaries only!"
Camping mobile vehicle total kills it in this map. And while the Panther top-gunner is as deadly as those in FH1, the Wolverine's top gunner sits there, spontaneously becoming deadly and then returning to vegetable state. Maybe that's a good thing since he has that wierd 360 degree angle which would make him just too deadly
Also, bots don't fire at such positions with small arms... Come to think of it, bots NEVER fire small arms at people in open vehicle positions, they just toss smoke until the game lags - And now, barely any proper grenades either *hint, hint*
Also I noted something - The 2 front seats of the Panther are invulnerable. You cannot shoot poeple/ bots from there - The bullets pass right through. I even tossed a nade right at their feet... same thing.
@ Zoomotorppol
Trust me, this map NEEDS bots fighting around the town more and not just inside it - The gameplay currently becomes less strategic and more shootemup after a while of the repeated to and fro. Sure, a few bots will die going above and beyond the call of duty, but it will certainly get the game more spread out.
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yer, well they fire the shrek and zook alot less...
I dunno about that, the bots in that last pic would shoot continuously if there were enemy vehicles around.
Maybe there's less AT bots in Luttich now compared to 2.2... :-\
...Camping mobile vehicle total kills it in this map...
I had my team of 25 (inc. me) reduced to 7 vehicles at one stage...everyone was in a vehicle ::)
Oh well, at least the bots sitting on tanks will happily fire on the enemy.
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The problem I believe is that the AI for the hull MG is created in the object AI but not created in the weapons AI. In fact most of the US and GB tanks do not have any hull MG AI entries.
This shouldn't be the reason for the problem - the hull MGs use the weapon.ai from the attached gun entity (in this case Coaxial_Cal30_Main). Some of the German tanks have hull MG entries in their own weapons.ai file, but I don't think the game actually uses these, there are no references to them in the .tweak file.
You're right though that there are some weapons that the AI doesn't seem to use - the Vickers .303 on the Chevy truck and the rear MG on the SdKfz.251 are other ones.
I'll have to do some more testing to see if the Sherman hull MGs work correctly - I've made a lot of changes to the AI files so may have fixed the problem already. I certainly noticed the AI using both the hull and hatch-mounted MGs on the M5 Stuart.
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I've haven't played with it yet, but I think that the coax weapon is separate from the hull as it's tied to an armament weapon. The German tanks like the panther have all the applicable entries.
It's good see we're working as a group to sort the issue though!
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...Some of the German tanks have hull MG entries in their own weapons.ai file, but I don't think the game actually uses these, there are no references to them in the .tweak file...
...I'll have to do some more testing to see if the Sherman hull MGs work correctly - I've made a lot of changes to the AI files so may have fixed the problem already. I certainly noticed the AI using both the hull and hatch-mounted MGs on the M5 Stuart.
At first, I tried putting the same entry into the M4A1's weapons.ai to see if that'd fix it, but nope...
And after comparing the .tweak and .ai files of the Panther, M4A1, and Stuart numerous times, I'm still at a loss as to why the Stuart uses it's hull MG and the M4A1 won't. Everything looks ok but...*shrugs*
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Tested Luettich today. Playing as US team.
The Turret MGer fires its turret MG and hits some target, granting me several driver assist points. Nice!
The German tanks i encountered (one Panzer 4H and one Panther A) respond differently. The Panzer 4H fires its AP round and missed (hits a rock), i opened fire and killed him. The Panther strangely didn't fire at me (even though has been around ever since the beginning). I noticed him pointing his cannon at me, but it takes 2 shot for my Sherman to his sides, but he didn't return any fire, instead he popped smokes (something new 'eh?), so i easily destroy it.
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Smoke? Never seen that... sure it wasn't an infantry hitchhiker?
Will sure be cool to see weaker tanks pop smoke before taking on tanks with bigger guns, but sure wont do to see em do only that, like some infantry units I know ::)
And Panther popping smoke on account of a Sherman... tsk, tsk, tsk... Not quite a good thing
Yes, its true.. I DO see the Panther point but never fire... so it ends up being an over-priced mobile mg platform, especially in relation to the M10, saved only by its better manoueverability
In a map like Luttch, I really feel both camps attacking rather than defending will make tank and infantry combat alot more interesting with battles taking place in bocage country and open field around the town of Mortain rather than in those narrow streets.
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I see what you mean. There are a lot of wasted spaces in Luettich, especially those grass fields.
But as a player, i also rarely go there because of limited access. The stone fences are to high to jump on, and bots see through thick grasses, making fights uninteresting.
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THAT'S the BOCAGE fer ya!
But seriously. think about it. Add the attack-enemy uncap clause to the commander ai and have the first battles take place in the hell of the bocage and with tanks breaking through and fighting in the open fields.
Either hold off the enemy in that shit of a battlefield, or fall back to the town and defend from there
As German, once you overcome the enemy there, you then move in for the prize - the town of Mortain.
In FH1, this was very possible because of how bots were. in instances like PHL for FH1, where enemy fired from insane distances and could see through the brush, it was my job to push the attack on, lying flat on my stomach, shouting out to AI to attack, attack attack, using nades, firing the few enemy units I DID see...In the end, it was my brain and the bots' braun that carried the day.
I think it should be so here too. Increases the variety of battlefields in the single map too... From the tank graveyard to the North East of Mortain with a few destroyed vehicles for cover, the boacage and the mud walls for cover, open fields between the bocage and charging enemy units and finally, the town, farm and church area
Teach bots to use all stationary weapons, perhaps even the one up in the church, replace the mgs in the town with deployed Allies mgs and we could have some real strongpoints to battle over... Give the bots a real fighting chance.
Ofcourse, a key thing would be to have bots finally firing at the guy poking out of the tank, hanomag or manning the mg instead of either tossing smoke or firing at the entire vehicle. Germ,an uber tanks ACTUALLY firing back... preferably mg or HE if at infantry and perhaps bailing vehicles or switching position if need be.
I'm kinda gettind tired of playing Luttch 2.0 and finally-working-Goodwood-with-bugs and there is precious else I can add as feedback that I haven't already added in some other thread
just saying...
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...I'm kinda gettind tired of playing Luttch 2.0 and finally-working-Goodwood-with-bugs and there is precious else I can add as feedback that I haven't already added in some other thread
just saying...
If it's a good tank battle you're looking for, play Aberdeen.
I've seen some great battles around the Central Village and with the gun fix the Paks have a field day.
At one point, I spawned at Central Village and was killed 3 times in row by a bot on the MG42 in the bunker at Strongpoint A before I managed to put a HE shell through the window he was shooting out of... :)
But it ain't perfect...the Valentine and Matilda are virtually unstoppable, and when the Brits take Strongpoint A, bots on the Paks repeatedly shoot at tanks coming out of the German main, but the sandbags are too high to shoot over.
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What i mean is the bots rarely enter the Bocage because they need open-wide access to it, not some tightly closed enterance (broken stone fences), tiny gaps... etc
For SP, a big step of changing the map is needed to make them more enjoyable.
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All TY for your information I hope it will help! TYVVVVVm :)
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@ZooMotorpool
I've seen Germans travel across practically all areas of the map when they are either attacking Mortain or on seek and destroy i.e. when they encounter me as enemy and are pursuing. So I supposed Allied infantry should be able to do so. Tanks maneuver through really narrow street alleys you don't expect them to be able to - I'm sure they can do the bocage corridors which are much larger just fine... and they do... what they don't pass is the open fields.
You have the bot-modding skill, zM. Maybe, try adding the attack enemy-uncap to both sides and see what they do...
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The problem with Luettich is like it crashes when i play as Germans, but it remains okay when i play as Americans. Dunno what the cause, but the when playing as Americans, it will eventually crashes too.
BTW, will try your suggestion.
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Had what I think must have been my best game on Luttich a few minutes ago.. granted, the Germans did park at their home base and top gunners on all sides sat there without a driver, even once on the M10, but it flowed
Battles took place in the lower bocage connecting the church to Mortain East and Mortain West with the farm. Tanks fired at tanks and infantry in the hedgrow, mg42 bipod gunners proned at range and covered assaults, real greandes were thrown half as much as smoke and the AT guns changed hands several times with infantry using shreks, zooks and nades to neutralise the gunner....
Once i capped all bases as Germans, I was curious to see what happens next. Will the Allies sit in their tanks' top gun position and stand around like the Germans did in that situation? Or will they launch weak counter-attacks?
In the end, I decided to switch to Yanks to see for myself and I was quite impressed. Tanks with infantry and APC in tow, fanned out in a pincer move to cap the entire town of Mortain, while a few dashed through the kill zone right in the middle (the open field) - Kill zone, because most of the defending Germans had that area in range. I was follwing an M10 across the open field when it engaged a target somewhere behind the hedgrow at the end of the field. It fired... and missed, quickly being transformed into a hull of burning wreck by a direct hit from an unseen panzer, which only revealed itself by its muzzle blast. On seeing my squad behind the tank, it begun moving from cover - and it revealed itself - A Panzer V Panther, moving in, cannon firing and mg atop blazing away as it went. and it dawned on me...
Perhaps what could make the battle all the more interesting is to include one or a number of capture point at the edge of the enemy-out-of-bounds area on both sides (And covering each of the three entries into Mortain i.e the 3 fields on either side for both sides of the battlefield)... It doesn't have to have a flag. Just a capture point (It needs to be cap-pable otherwise the entire force will amass at one point and lock the enemy at their home base). Once the town and surrounding areas are capped, they will push on to that cap-point and once capped will stop recieving attack/defend commands.
What this does is to have them move away from the town across the wide open space between them and the enemy base (allied or axis, depending) and defend all sides from there... The enemy would thus cap have to cap the 3 bases at its side of the battlefield, funneling their attack at first and then fanning out in such a way that it doesn't seem like a solo individual capping any single already-exsiting flag (especially the church and farm) - And also, it increases the effective attack strength since they have to wait at the flags to cap them, adding to their numbers, making any initial attack or counnter-attack seem that more agressive, instead of a few scattered infantry moving in as is now.
Whaddya think?
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Yeah, why not. Anything would be an improvement on the current situation.
Playing as the Yanks is a snooze-fest due to the Germans inability to hold a flag for more than a few minutes. When they do take one, it results in a mass migration to it. They retake the flag and resume waiting for the few Germans that trickle down from the main.
It plays better as a German, but you still have to respawn at the main every so often to "motivate" the bots.
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I played as germans long enuf to realis it happens both ways. It got to a point wher only a handful of yanks attackd quickly bein dispatchd. Like jerry, they sat on their top mg position, n the rest stood around.
With what i suggest, they wud b abl to see the enemy right from base n if the commander can't inspire them, the grin on the enemy's face aross the field would
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I wood like to comment on this map, but this map just doesn't work in Singleplayer and online
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There is a bug with the new bots on tank-mounted mg in Luttich 2.25. However Download Drawde's patch from the Feedback>Singleplayer pages and it will work for you with some added benefits for all maps
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Cool now it works ! Thanks
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@Drawde
Any word on if the CTD issue with this map has been found?
Also, have you been able to experiment with raised artillery-perspective?
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I haven't had time to look at this map much, I was working on tracking down the Goodwood CTD and after that the improvements to the AI armour class system. I'll probably have another look at Luttich soon (starting with disabling the weapons AI tweak file to see if it's a hand weapon causing the CTD, as I suspect)
All I know for certain that it's not the bazooka or Panzerschreck causing the issue (tried disabling both of these, still CTDs) and probably not the MG42 Lafette.
(edit): Also, regarding the artillery, I've raised the viewpoint on all mortars + howitzers by about 15-20, any more than this will block spawnpoints. I'm fairly certain that this will allow bots to see over small obstacles like sandbags, hedges and walls, though it doesn't give them aircraft-like overall vision as I'd hoped to do.
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Nice to hear...
At least it will make them interesting field equipment, even if not remote firing
Glad to hear you are making progress in Goodwood. Hope the Luttich issue follows
I also recommend trying to set values for camping all vehicles (Unless its possible to do so only for mobile vehicles) to that of 2.2 value before the patch. I had to reinstall FH2 and so I played 2.2 before patching it and was amazed by how many issues noted in 2.25 such as bots camping mg positions on tanks etc was self-solved simply by bots being able to bail. I can understand why Legion changed the value, but with your changes to bot vehicle preference, I see no reason for bots to select AT guns at the right time while not camping vehicles indefinitely
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I've fixed the cause of the CTD... at least the one introduced with the 1.1 version of my minimod. It was caused by the Composition B not having a secondary fire input assigned. This didn't crash the game with the default AI or the 1.0 minimod, as bots didn't use this weapon.
However, there are still random CTDs on Luttich 64, maybe 50-60% of the time, usually at least 15-20 minutes into the game, often later. I'm not sure of the cause of these; I have a suspicion it might be the static 6pdr AT gun, as the last CTD was when I was killed by a Panther whilst manning the 6pdr.
On a related note, I think I've found a way to stop bots randomly blowing themselves up (and everyone else nearby) with explosives - it's the "c4" setting in the AI behaviour file, set this to 0.0 and this bot behaviour should be disabled. I think they should still use AT charges for their intended purpose - I saw one Geballte Ladung kill message since making this change - but I'll need to do some more testing to be sure.
It's certainly a needed fix, I once saw a German bot on Goodwood 64 cause 7 teamkills (plus himself) this way :o - not sure if this is a record?!
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Cool. That satchel TK'ing is at it's worst on GW-16 due to the low ticket count (200-200). It almost always results in the Brits having to start with anywhere up to a 15 ticket handicap.