Author Topic: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion  (Read 3185 times)

Offline Erwin

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #15 on: 21-12-2015, 15:12:45 »
Rey is awesome.

BB8 is super cool.

But I hope they do not toss R2 to the side because of it. R2 is the most awesome character of all the series, saving their asses countless times and could be considered as the secret lead character.  ;D (If you look at it closely you'll understand what I mean.)

Bad sides for me is that it has no space combat at all(after Episode III...) we do not even see a bunch of Star Destroyers patrolling etc... That side of the film is too blank tbh. One Star Destroyer with a close up shots did not satisfy me at all.

Rebels still looks like a tribe than rebels.(Episode IV has budget and tech issues I know but this is new, shoot in 2015 and with Disney support.) It has a big budget. So why the hell rebels still doesn't have proper ships? They attack a Death Star planet with 20 X-Wings and greeted by a bunch of Tie Fighters? If this place is a big deal, I would have expected it to be defended better than a kindergarden.

They literally walk into the base, undetected with no guards, nothing. The place feels like it's been guarded by like 20 guards?

JJ again messed up the original feeling of the series by bringing up some stupid shit. In Star Trek he invented a transwarp beaming system which completely messed up the series logic. You can apparently now beam into a moving ship anywhere in the galaxy which has ruined entire Starship concept.

In Star Wars, he does this by stupidly changing hyperdrive concept. Apparently you can now go into hyperdrive from inside a ship or pass a shield with it now.

Seriously, film starts good but ends mediocre. That's what it ruined for me and space travel. Luckily Han Solo performance and Rey(also BB8) saved the film a little for me that's why I give it 6.5/10.

JJ films always have continuity issues and this one has it as well and it doesn't surprise me one bit.
« Last Edit: 21-12-2015, 15:12:14 by Erwin »
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Offline Zoologic

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #16 on: 21-12-2015, 16:12:53 »
Well, at least it is more watchable than the prequels. I think it should get a rather high mark, and as a fan, I would give it 8/10. I was prepared to be quite dissapointed when they dumped the whole EU materials. But The Force Awakens delivered IMO, despite the typical "Star Wars" burden.

E.g. the rebel is now resistance. Although supported by the Republic, according to Wulfburk's reference, they are more like the Hawkish pro-war activists within the new Republic. Of course, they won't get full fundings from the inter-solar system bureaucratic democracy system.

I rewatched Episode III: Revenge of The Sith last night and it was awful in every aspects.

Nobody pointed out that Obi Wan was such a bitch in this movie that he unnecessarily quipped excessive amount of one-liners that may contribute to Anakin going the Dark Side in addition to his fear of Padme's death.
The dialogue is cheesy and high school drama class at best. I don't understand why Ewan McGregor and Samuel L. Jackson wanted to take part and basically recites campy dialogues behind a massive green screen.
Like CPS pointed out, the light saber duels are much more flamboyant. It is not two super warriors from each opposing factions dueling to death, more like two swordsman dancing in a concerted performance. While beautiful, it is absurd.
There are massive logical incontinuity, like Yoda giving up Palpatine (rendering his confrontation all useless). Obi Wan confronting Anakin without Padme knowing (disregarding the heating arguements between the two that Obi could obviously overhear). Nevermind Jedi's senses. It is sometimes very powerful that it can detect subtle emotional state like confusion and pain from light years away. Yet fails to detect the very powerful Sith Lord nestling at the very same planet as their temple. Can Dark side powers use "Force Cloak Minds"?

While it is "the best out of the prequel" but it is still utterly awful in many aspects. Really, it makes me think that 2000s decade is the shittiest moment in the millenia. Car is shitty, music is shitty, movie is shitty, events are shitty, economy is shittier, 2000 to 2009 is the worst era ever. Remember James Bond movies from that era? Die Another Day? Also, franchise like Jurassic Park almost ended with III in 2001?

In contrast, The Force Awakens gave us more acceptable Star Wars movie by applying that modern movie safety formula that I often hated. Never mind science. StarKiller should have supernova itself when failing to content an abosrbed star, making escape impossible and destroying nearby planets. Also why the massive addition of the absorbed star mass doesn't make it the centre of the new solar system? You can't stop asking these questions.

Offline Tedacious

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #17 on: 25-12-2015, 04:12:54 »
You guys are insane.

It was amazing. Or at least that is my first impression after watching it once. Can't wait to watch it a second time. Though the impression might very well deteriorate after the initial shock and joy of actually watching a new star wars movie; with recurring characters.

So watching it in a more "sober" state might change my opinion on it. But damn, atm it was absolutely amazing.

Maybe a bit too much fan-service, considering it being an outright copy of A New Hope (Trenchrun? I mean that was a bit too much).


Han solo getting killed did actually shock me a bit. Though not surprising. 5 minutes before I had wondered if they would kill anyone off. Introducing 3 new main characters (Kylo Ren, Rey, Finn) means they would have to kill off some of the remaining cast.

So obvious that Ren was the son of Han and Leia, I mean when the old guy at the start commented on Ren's family to his face, it was so obvious.

I did believe Rey is the daughter of Luke at first. Considering her force powers, her parents missing since she was a kid (just like Luke & Leia), the fact that The Skywalker heirloom-lightsaber called to her, and how R2-D2 awoke just when Rey got close.

Perhaps R2 was there when Rey was abandoned/born? Programmed to recognize her as a skywalker?

But for some reason. I doubt it. Feels somewhat like there is a bit too much focus on family in that case. Though it would make sense for that extra bit of tension between Rey and Ren.

Dang I'm not sure what to think.

I loved it though.
I see were you are trying to reach: "how can a 17 year old kid have such a thinking like this? why doesnt he wants to be like normal teens who whana get rich? and his plan actually makes sense, but is too damn revolutionary and good at the same time than is still doubthfull if it works..." - Damaso

Offline Captain Pyjama Shark

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #18 on: 27-12-2015, 19:12:16 »
You guys are insane.


Well excuse me for having unreasonably high standards for a Star Wars film.

But actually I saw it again last night, more sober, and I liked it less.

C+ at best, maybe.  J.J. Abrams took no risks, and got no rewards.

Offline Kelmola

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #19 on: 27-12-2015, 23:12:00 »
Saw it the second time. Still as amazing.

Liked it more actually on the second viewing, now that I could fully pay attention to all the small details and nuances. Yes, they are there. The mystery adds to the attractiveness, not everything is spelled out. The characters are fresh and interesting, it leaves the desire to see more.

Offline Wilhelm

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #20 on: 27-12-2015, 23:12:21 »
Saw it the second time. Still as amazing.

Liked it more actually on the second viewing, now that I could fully pay attention to all the small details and nuances. Yes, they are there. The mystery adds to the attractiveness, not everything is spelled out. The characters are fresh and interesting, it leaves the desire to see more.

I saw it for the second time last night and I, too, actually liked it more.  They do actually explain a lot of the things that people questioned as being far-fetched or seemed contradictory, but you have to pay close attention to the dialogue or other subtle cues.

I was closely watching the interactions between Rey and Kylo Ren and there is a lot of information being conveyed in their body language and facial expressions.  If you watch closely, Kylo Ren is definitely far more skilled than Rey is, even though he is beaten. He mainly gets bested because of his arrogance, while you can see Rey concentrating and centering herself more.

I came away with an impression of Kylo Ren being much more badass than I thought he was on my first viewing.
« Last Edit: 27-12-2015, 23:12:08 by Wilhelm »

Offline Zoologic

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #21 on: 28-12-2015, 06:12:21 »
I don't see getting shot with a blaster weakens a Dark Force Knight.

But still, Kylo Ren is very weak. He stops a blaster bolt, that is very powerful indeed. But then, he is scarred by a non-force user like Finn. Then, completely force-blocked by an untrained force user like Rey.

I know why Kylo Ren feels weak compared to Vader, but is Luke's other disciples that weak? That Kylo manages to kill them all? In their sleep perhaps? Anyone who read extra SW materials care to explain?

Offline Kelmola

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #22 on: 28-12-2015, 12:12:23 »
The massacre is not (yet) explained anywhere else either.

Most likely explanation would be that for anyone not of the Skywalker line, becoming a Jedi is a decades-long process (judging by the prequels where Anakin is stated to have become the youngest Jedi Master ever at around 20, even though other Jedi had been learning the arts since infancy), whereas Skywalker get the hang of it much faster (as apparent by Luke's progress in the four years in-universe between ANH and ROTJ), so BenKylo got a significant headstart on the other students. The massacre still required that Luke was elsewhere (a distraction arranged by Snoke, no doubt), or else he would have wiped the floor with Ben.

Yes, pain may make Dark Side users stronger, but only to a point, not where you take the equivalent of a grenade launcher shot to your guts. And Kylo is still unsure of himself and of his darkness, no matter what he boasts to Snoke - he would not have been able to kill his father without Han's unwitting help. Also, Kylo never was fully trained, sure he can intimidate non-Force users, but he's far, far from being a fully learned Jedi or Sith. Probably he has not learned much (if at all) since killing the Academy, and lightsabre-armed opponents are not exactly common in the galaxy far far away's present ("an elegant weapon of a more civilized age"). He seems also very immature for his age (intended to be about 30), the way how he behaves and having all these temper tantrums and wrecking things.

It is still heavily implied though that Rey did have prior training, and/or is either Kylo's sister or (most likely) cousin. Though, if she did not have training, that would explain the title of the film, that the Force is literally awakening and has selected her as the new "Chosen One".

Also, on second viewing, the moment Kylo is told that "a girl" helped BB-8 escape, his reaction clearly indicates that he knows or suspects who she is, and in the interrogation scene clearly behaves as if he knew her (though she seems to have forgotten him). Now, if these were the prequels as written and directed by Lucas, this could be just another unintended accident (cf. the hamfisted scene where Padmé questions Anakin about Jedi code, and Anakin's explanation, acted and written as if he's bending the rules to suit him, is actually the official Jedi policy as per Lucas's interview afterwards), but I don't think so this time.

Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #23 on: 28-12-2015, 12:12:28 »
Midi-chlorians activate!

Offline Pappa_bear

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #24 on: 28-12-2015, 14:12:34 »
Could Han Solo be alive? They dumped Phasma (female high ranked stormtrooper) in a trash shaft. Perhaps Solo fell into this shaft aswell, after he was stabbed and fell into oblivion. Trash gets dumped into space, so....... I just hope he is still alive 8)

Offline Captain Pyjama Shark

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #25 on: 28-12-2015, 15:12:56 »
Could Han Solo be alive? They dumped Phasma (female high ranked stormtrooper) in a trash shaft. Perhaps Solo fell into this shaft aswell, after he was stabbed and fell into oblivion. Trash gets dumped into space, so....... I just hope he is still alive 8)
He got run through with a lightsaber and then fell into a bottomless pit, I admire your stunningly blind optimism.   Also, since he was clearly Ben Kenobi, and because that movie was literally A New Hope, he is dead, as all "old mentor figures" must die. 

Offline Erwin

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #26 on: 28-12-2015, 15:12:11 »
Harrison Ford hates playing Han Solo so he is not coming back.

Rey is Luke's daughter. Probably the kid in the flashback we saw(a kid taken from her parents in a desert-like planet)is Rey, being given away by Luke to protect her and he probably wiped her mind too. That's why she seems connected to force.

There is also one other stupidly simple explanation for Rey's force awareness: Episode IV's Luke.

That kid was a simple farmer who never heard of force by the age of 20(almost) He meets Obi-Wan, gets out of Tatooine, gets to fly an X-Wing!!!?!?! (Rey=Millenium Falcon) and he makes an attack run against the Rebellion's #1 target: Death Star. I mean, that attack could have been made by any other remaining pilots, Biggs, Wedge... But it had to be Luke. In the middle of the run he suddenly hears Obi Wan talking over force(WHICH IN EPISODE III OBI WAN HAD TO LEARN THAT STUFF TO SPEAK TO QUI-GONN ACCORDING TO YODA) and destroys the Death Star by using force.

He also hurts Vader on the shoulder after a few days worth of training(we did not see much Lightsaber training)and gave him a rather good fight.(Vader was teasing him I know)

People thinks those actions by Luke is rational and yet they babble over Rey beating wounded Kylo Ren.  ::)

This is Star Wars people, get over it.
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Offline Kelmola

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #27 on: 28-12-2015, 17:12:42 »
Could Han Solo be alive? They dumped Phasma (female high ranked stormtrooper) in a trash shaft. Perhaps Solo fell into this shaft aswell, after he was stabbed and fell into oblivion. Trash gets dumped into space, so....... I just hope he is still alive 8)
He got run through with a lightsaber and then fell into a bottomless pit, I admire your stunningly blind optimism.
According to Clone Wars cartoons which are now canon comparable to movies (THANKS, DISNEY!) Maul actually survived the fall because reasons and returned, even though he did require a robotic lower torso and legs. Luke fell into a similarly seemingly bottomless shaft but the "air currents" handwaved in (as per the novelization) slowed his fall enough. (It is just a matter of time when it will be revealed that Mace Windu too survived his fall and that Finn is his grandchild.)

Therefore, falling into a bottomless pit is completely harmless in the galaxy far far away, unless you are Palpatine when you will simply explode before hitting the bottom, because for some inexplicable reason you cannot stop shooting Force lightning once you have begun, and apparently it targets yourself for the lack of another living being nearby, and apparently this somehow causes a violent explosion instead of horrible burn wounds...

Considering that lightsabres cauterize the wounds they cause, Han Solo should be just fine if the sabre did not pierce any major organs or blood vessels, and he managed to find a ship before Starkiller imploded... ;D
That kid was a simple farmer who never heard of force by the age of 20(almost) He meets Obi-Wan, gets out of Tatooine, gets to fly an X-Wing!!!?!?! (Rey=Millenium Falcon) and he makes an attack run against the Rebellion's #1 target: Death Star. I mean, that attack could have been made by any other remaining pilots, Biggs, Wedge... But it had to be Luke. In the middle of the run he suddenly hears Obi Wan talking over force(WHICH IN EPISODE III OBI WAN HAD TO LEARN THAT STUFF TO SPEAK TO QUI-GONN ACCORDING TO YODA) and destroys the Death Star by using force.

He also hurts Vader on the shoulder after a few days worth of training(we did not see much Lightsaber training)and gave him a rather good fight.(Vader was teasing him I know)

People thinks those actions by Luke is rational and yet they babble over Rey beating wounded Kylo Ren.  ::)
It requires no training to be able to talk to the Force ghosts that appear to you, otherwise Yoda wouldn't have had his little chat with Qui-Gon at all (sadly, this was cut from the movie). To be able to appear as a Force ghost (whether as a voice or a spectral being) does require a lot of training (or being a physical incarnation of the Force, as it was with Anakin).

Luke had been flying a lot his family's T-16 Skyhopper and bulls-eyeing womp rats from one, it had controls very similar to that of an X-Wing (in the novelization, they explicitly mention this and the Rebel techs even slightly modify Luke's X-Wing's controls to be even more similar). Also, Red Leader almost hit the same target with no Force whatsoever, so clearly, the Force was not a requirement, just made the job easier. As for "some days", Luke had clearly been taught by Obi-Wan's ghost for the past three years and he had obviously himself practiced meanwhile (how else could he have known to Force grab the fallen sabre, and purposefully relax himself for the task in order to concentrate?). Also, there is no clear indication of how much time passes during Falcon's journey from Hoth to Bespin (presumably using some not-mentioned emergency hyperdrive, unless ESB takes place over several YEARS), could be weeks or even months.
« Last Edit: 28-12-2015, 17:12:52 by Kelmola »

Offline Captain Pyjama Shark

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #28 on: 28-12-2015, 17:12:59 »


That kid was a simple farmer who never heard of force by the age of 20(almost) He meets Obi-Wan, gets out of Tatooine, gets to fly an X-Wing!!!?!?! (Rey=Millenium Falcon) and he makes an attack run against the Rebellion's #1 target: Death Star. I mean, that attack could have been made by any other remaining pilots, Biggs, Wedge... But it had to be Luke. In the middle of the run he suddenly hears Obi Wan talking over force(WHICH IN EPISODE III OBI WAN HAD TO LEARN THAT STUFF TO SPEAK TO QUI-GONN ACCORDING TO YODA) and destroys the Death Star by using force.


I have wondered why Red Leader told Luke to lead Biggs and Wedge during the attack run.  For one thing, we don't know how long Biggs and Wedge have been with Red Squadron, all three of them sort of seem like comparative newbies (but of course, there wasn't anyone else left to take the shot once the more experienced first two trench run teams failed).  But I think Red Leader also saw a lot of natural talent in Luke and felt confident he could take the shot. 
[

Luke had been flying a lot his family's T-16 Skyhopper and bulls-eyeing womp rats from one, it had controls very similar to that of an X-Wing (in the novelization, they explicitly mention this and the Rebel techs even slightly modify Luke's X-Wing's controls to be even more similar). Also, Red Leader almost hit the same target with no Force whatsoever, so clearly, the Force was not a requirement, just made the job easier. As for "some days",even months.
Actually, the Force pretty much seems to have been a requirement.  Most of the other pilots seem pretty sceptical that it's even possible  (Fake Wedge: That's impossible, even for a computer! Red 10: We should be able to see it by now.  Wedge: Are you sure the computer can hit it?)  And of course Red Leader lines up the shot but the targeting computer misses.  Obi-Wan's pretty sure Luke would have missed too if he didn't use the force.

To go back to the topic at hand:  I think the Battle of Yavin is the best battle scene in the Star Wars series, and one of the best of all time.  The battle at the end of the Force Awakens was a very shallow imitation without even a quarter the suspense.
« Last Edit: 28-12-2015, 17:12:37 by Captain Pyjama Shark »

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
« Reply #29 on: 28-12-2015, 19:12:19 »
Watched the movie a second time, this time with my family. Turns out my mom always thought stormtroopers were robots.