Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lada.Rear.Drive on 17-06-2014, 19:06:40

Title: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Lada.Rear.Drive on 17-06-2014, 19:06:40
Some stats first.
New player accounts with stats (played on game server) since the master server reset. http://www.762-ranking.de/fh2stats/
(http://i.imgur.com/ugbMOBg.jpg)
I did some seeding.
(http://i.imgur.com/8dNJr4B.jpg)
Server population at the moment.
(http://i.imgur.com/FBAUqZo.jpg)

Where do all the new players go? They join in once to the only populated server and find it running some ancient Afrika map, get sniped a few times, disconnect and never come back?
I wish we had a server that would run only the best of the best. The greatest hits. Top ten at ten.
I know all you FH2 purists hate this kind of thinking but how many of you actually play this game any more?
Thoughts?

(http://i.imgur.com/aa7UdMj.jpg)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: McCloskey on 17-06-2014, 20:06:51
I lol'd at the pic.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 17-06-2014, 20:06:20
This mod has been "dying" for years. The community is small, but stable and I doubt it will increase significantly, considering we are on an engine that is almost a decade old. On top of that, new players are basically cannon fodder for all those "quasi cheaters" out there (people who don't cheat, but the end effect is the same for the rest of the player base).
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 17-06-2014, 20:06:24
 They need somewhere else to go.

 The server crashes or restarts at least 5 times a day & their map list sucks.



 I did like the Mappack 762 put together. It was refreshing  ;)



 but, 762 does it their way or the highway.


blah blah blah.....
 ;D
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Mudzin on 17-06-2014, 20:06:16
This mod has been "dying" for years. The community is small, but stable and I doubt it will increase significantly, considering we are on an engine that is almost a decade old. On top of that, new players are basically cannon fodder for all those "quasi cheaters" out there (people who don't cheat, but the end effect is the same for the rest of the player base).

How do you know that they don't cheat?
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: LuckyOne on 17-06-2014, 21:06:29
The best of the best? Ok, smartypants, how do you define the "best of the best"?

Public poll? Won't work, not really a representative sample...

Admin decision? Like players, they all have different opinions... Let's take Sidi Rezegh for example... I consider it to be one of the most awesome African maps - and FH2 maps in general - others find it utterly boring and shi**y.

Dev decision? Well I'm sure they are somewhat biased, and everyone loves his personal map the most.

Voting on an ad hoc basis? As in, if the players seem to be getting tired, run a mapvote - problem is that people who dislike the map that wins leave instantly after the round ends.

There is no silver bullet solution. The community just needs to be friendlier towards newcomers, and we need people (especially squadleaders to step up, and help the newbies learn the ropes).
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Roughbeak on 17-06-2014, 22:06:29
First of all, whose to decide what maps are the best?

I like all the maps the devs map, some are worse than others, but hey, show some appreciation of all the their effort and time into it.

Of course there are maps that some players hate, but that is just a few, maybe others will join instead and like the map better than them.
For an example (like LuckOne said), Sidi Rezegh is a very well done map, others will take the devs work for granted and call it crap, I disagree, I like the map.
Another example, Operation Supercharge, this map is better played when 70+ players, less than that - it gets very boring to be honest.

As far as I'm concerned if we play the "best of the best", many will get tired of the same maps because they play over and over again. Variety of maps is essential for many players when 762 is basically the only server that is bracing FH2, and also WaW has done a great job on playing maps for Thursdays and Fridays.

People have different opinions toward maps and we should respect that.



Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: TASSER on 18-06-2014, 00:06:03
Thanks very much for the post Lada, I fully understand where you're coming from.

The learning curve for FH is steep, and someone brand new to the mod has a very tough time getting up to speed, especially when they're facing vets who have been playing for 7+ years (when you include FH1). Pair that frustration with them running around some God-forsaken stretch of desert with a name they've never heard of before, and you have a somewhat lousy experience for a newbie.

The problem is, FH was designed from the ground up to be a "purists" game. FH's general player base is around not because they can play maps depicting the very famous, well known battles of WWII over and over again; but because they get to visit new areas that they may never have heard of until the new map is announced (Battle of Keren). They get to handle weapons that weren't used extensively throughout the war, but may have played a role in a particular theater (AT rifles).

Some compromises are made for the sake of game play, it is a computer game after all, not a "life in Europe, 1944" simulation, but in general Forgotten Hope is a realism focused game made for those who can really appreciate its message.

HOWEVER, although there aren't droves of new players blasting through we do need to make sure steps are taken to try to retain them. Really, the best way to do this is through in-game help. Efforts really need to be made to help teach these guys and get them in the swing of things. If you've got a big brother to show you the ropes, you'll get way more out of the game :)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Musti on 18-06-2014, 00:06:33
This mod has been "dying" for years. The community is small, but stable and I doubt it will increase significantly, considering we are on an engine that is almost a decade old. On top of that, new players are basically cannon fodder for all those "quasi cheaters" out there (people who don't cheat, but the end effect is the same for the rest of the player base).
Yeeah, that's a serious problem with a small and dedicated playerbase like this one, when a new guy joins a server he not only has to deal with FH2 difficulty curve, but also with the fact that 90% of the players are veterans who've played the game for years. That could turn some people off.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 18-06-2014, 02:06:19
HOWEVER, although there aren't droves of new players blasting through we do need to make sure steps are taken to try to retain them. Really, the best way to do this is through in-game help. Efforts really need to be made to help teach these guys and get them in the swing of things. If you've got a big brother to show you the ropes, you'll get way more out of the game :)

 Spot on TASSER. I enjoy the game & enjoy helping new players. The list is extensive of players that I am friendly with & in return I have earned their respect........and they get a little better every time.

 Thr Combat report I posted about Pointe Du Hoc (weekend highlight thread), those were all newbies except StoreDyr & they had a blast!

http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=19688.15

 Rough makes a good point as well......look I appreciate 762 I really do, I suppose there really isn't 1 simple solution, its a combination of several.

 ;)

Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Leopardi on 18-06-2014, 05:06:24
With eastern front release, and preferably have eastern front and western front on different servers for a while as there will be enough players to populate both.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: The Nanny on 18-06-2014, 16:06:24
As a new player to FH2 (I bought BF2 just to play this mod a month ago), I'll provide a bit of my 2-cent new-guy perspective on this issue.

- When you are new to this game/mod, with one exception map choice and rotation doesn't really matter.  They are all confusing and all amazing.  You get lost, don't know where the kits are, don't know the choke points, or good hiding spots.  Desert, forest, city...doesn't really matter.  "Better maps" in the rotation IMHO don't make a difference because MP is soooo different from single player, that until you figure out the ropes the environment doesn't add/takeaway from the experience.  The exception is night-time maps, where clearly some veteran players change their video settings and the advantage over new guys is amplified further, and becomes frustrating to the point of being discouraging.

- Abuse from veterans...there are a few vets who make sport of ripping on noobs and calling them out for not knowing what to do.  Some people sluff it off, others just don't return.  Perhaps when this happens in the chat, other vets could provide encouragement instead ...if they care to keep servers populated in future.

- Team-stacking...although annoying, to be honest when I was new I barely noticed: everyone seems like an expert next to me.  Winning is barely a goal...just trying not to get killed too often becomes a more immediate goal.  And when playing against stacked teams, frankly I saw tactics used that over time helped me understand the game more.  I guess IMHO the best way to combat team stacking is to form/join a squad and start working like a team. 

Again, this is just the perspective of a relatively new guy.  There are many polite helpful vets on the servers that make the experience more accessible rookies and help keep us around.  People constantly ripping on and abusing inexperienced players is very discouraging.  Just my 2-cents on keeping the mod alive and accessible for new people.

cheers!
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Erwin on 18-06-2014, 16:06:37
You cannot please everyone.

Some will like, some will hate.

Someone dislikes 762 servers, others love them.

There is absolutely no way to satisfy every player. People will always find new ways to complain.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Alubat on 18-06-2014, 17:06:59
I think ther is to many big maps in rotation and map cycle changes to often to other maps. So you dont really get to know a map well before it is out of rotation.
i came back to this game 16 months ago and in some maps I still feel like a retarded granny noob

I mostly enjoy this game when server is maxed out 100-128 players or when only 10-20 people is on
Would love to play with less people on a small server more often if possible in future
 
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: FORGOTTENKEVINOHOPE on 18-06-2014, 20:06:22
I think ther is to many big maps in rotation and map cycle changes to often to other maps. So you dont really get to know a map well before it is out of rotation.
i came back to this game 16 months ago and in some maps I still feel like a retarded granny noob

I mostly enjoy this game when server is maxed out 100-128 players or when only 10-20 people is on
Would love to play with less people on a small server more often if possible in future
 

every thursday night on waw server.....
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: jan_kurator on 18-06-2014, 23:06:54
The exception is night-time maps, where clearly some veteran players change their video settings and the advantage over new guys is amplified further, and becomes frustrating to the point of being discouraging.

Video settings don't change much on night maps, afaik it doesn't really matter is it day or night map and the biggest advantage (or disadvantage) related to video settings is lack of film grain and suppression/wounded shaders. About the rest, I try my best to help new guys everytime I'm online but unfortunately, we can't change attitude of some vets, they are just scorewhores to be ignored.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Mudzin on 18-06-2014, 23:06:34
The exception is night-time maps, where clearly some veteran players change their video settings and the advantage over new guys is amplified further, and becomes frustrating to the point of being discouraging.

Video settings don't change much on night maps, afaik it doesn't really matter is it day or night map and the biggest advantage (or disadvantage) related to video settings is lack of film grain and suppression/wounded shaders. About the rest, I try my best to help new guys everytime I'm online but unfortunately, we can't change attitude of some vets, they are just scorewhores to be ignored.

Brightening your desktop is the solution to make a night map as a day! For me making night maps doesn't have any sense...
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 19-06-2014, 03:06:30
"quasi cheaters;" (people who don't cheat, but the end effect is the same for the rest of the player base).

That's the best way I've heard to describe anyone like a Major Koenig. They don't cheat outright but instead dedicate their lives to sniping people as fast as they can and in the end ruin the game for a lot of new players. It's like playing basketball with LeBron James; fun and interesting for a while, but in the end you're just gonna rage quit after the 10th time he dunks on you. (for you Europeans, think Lionel Messi :P)

On Topic
FH2 does have a VERY high learning curve for new players. Not many people are willing to learn the ropes on a 10 year old game and take their lumps at the hands of the vets who have been honing their skills for the past decade.
In the end I don't think that many gameplay changes are going to give this mod a larger player base. (changes can be made to curb the ping snipers like Koenig) But I think it's more up to the community to be mature and respectful players to all the new guys they see.
Try to bite your tongue when you get blatantly tked by someone. Try and get your mics working and talk to/help out the new guys and give them a welcome experience. If you see a team is being stacked against, try and join the other team and get some teamwork going to at least give them a fighting chance.
The youtube videos and the fact that BF2 is almost free for people now will trickle in some new curious people, but ultimately it's up to us to show those players why we love this mod and make them stay. 

I'm glad The Nanny has found some good people to play with, it shows that there are still some respectable old vets in this mod that have the patience to help new guys.

My 2 cents on night maps; I LOVE them, they add immersion to the game. I don't play FH2 for the gameplay, I can watch someone dance around me and shoot my face off in any FPS. I play FH2 because I can ride through the desert on a shitty Italian tank 1 round, be hunting Panthers in the bocage with my satchel the next, and divebomb tommies in the desert the next. It's the best WW2 FPS that exists today, and we need to show the new guys why that is. :)     
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Zoologic on 19-06-2014, 06:06:12
There are also many old players that have grown up and given up video gaming altogether.

There are also old players who got a girlfriend or already starting a healthier social life.

There are old players who cannot commit to this game on desired frequency, because of other commitments.

There are old players who found what he desired and switched (other games, RO2, CoH2, etc, which were not available back then during FH1942/early FH2 era)

There are old players who have deceased. Yes, this mod is that old.

Yes, BF2 is nearly 10 years old. But other BF2 mod is thriving. One thing that we generally ignore and intensely deny is BF2 Project Reality appeal. Many comments on FH2 video, promotion posts in other forum, pointed out this, that FH2 could be better if the gameplay is less arcadey and so on and so on. Ignoring these virgin armchair military video game action guys (I deliberately resort to name calling here) perhaps explains the difference in number of players between FH2 and PR, other than modern vs. WW2 theme faction.

But that is impossible to change, FH2 to me is as good as it is, just as good as PR on its own way. I am glad that FH2 developers, in their dedicate their free time to this amazing work out of fame/popularity that other bigger mods received. FH2 really deserved that MoTY award, and we the small community banded together to campaign for that, still we didn't receive that FatJoe in a proper tutu outfit picture yet.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Slayer on 19-06-2014, 10:06:44
FH2 really deserved that MoTY award, and we the small community banded together to campaign for that, still we didn't receive that FatJoe in a proper tutu outfit picture yet.
We didn't? http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=19275.msg309663#msg309663
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 19-06-2014, 10:06:24
So FH2 dying is solely because of FatJoe not posting a proper tutu photo? You people are too demanding!
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: LuckyOne on 19-06-2014, 11:06:35
Zoo, I don't think it's just the gameplay regarding the FH 2 vs PR debate. It has more to do with the attitude of the players, the Devs and the server admins. PR decided, right from the start, that they are going to base the game on teamwork. No other options, they decided they'll either succeed or fail horribly. They did manage to succeed in the end, as they offered something different, and they literally carved out the community to fit their desired vision.

FH2 on the other hand, is a mixed breed. It tries to appeal to anyone: The casual vBF2er trying to find something new, the hardcore competitive crowd, with the focus on shooting skills, the WWII history addict who only wants to relive a day of combat in WWII with all the beautifully crafted models and maps, and to some degree, to the teamworkers who still remember it's a team-based game, and it should be played as a team.

But the problem is, with trying to please everyone, it alienated everyone, cause there's always gonna be "some quirk that simply doesn't fit my playstyle". Some want the gameplay to be faster, some want it to be slower and more tactical, some want no kit limits and freedom of choice, some like only smaller maps, some can't stand infantry-only etc.

FH2 needs to decide on its target audience, and stick with it. Cause as we saw, major shifts in gameplay (2.45 tanking system, anyone?  ::)) will cause people to leave... And the question is only which people can we afford to lose?
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Musti on 19-06-2014, 13:06:48
So FH2 dying is solely because of FatJoe not posting a proper tutu photo? You people are too demanding!
Look, it's a big deal mmkay? We did not get the photo we deserve goddamn it!
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: TASSER on 19-06-2014, 14:06:15
So FH2 dying is solely because of FatJoe not posting a proper tutu photo? You people are too demanding!
Look, it's a big deal mmkay? We did not get the photo we deserve goddamn it!

We didn't? http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=19275.msg309663#msg309663
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 19-06-2014, 14:06:32
"quasi cheaters;" (people who don't cheat, but the end effect is the same for the rest of the player base).

That's the best way I've heard to describe anyone like a Major Koenig. They don't cheat outright but instead dedicate their lives to sniping people as fast as they can and in the end ruin the game for a lot of new players. It's like playing basketball with LeBron James; fun and interesting for a while, but in the end you're just gonna rage quit after the 10th time he dunks on you. (for you Europeans, think Lionel Messi :P)


I don't think that highly skilled people are a problem of FH2. At times, when DaZlayer was active nobody complained about it besides the usual cheating suspicions that some of us get once in a while. Last time on Keren I was the last surviving Italian and had a good run with the rifle and killed like 8 guys in a row. Ofcourse someone instantly called me a cheater, a guy who I had never seen on the server before.  ::)

Tbh, when I am new to a game I try to adapt to it, no matter how experienced other people are. When I got into Insurgency (when it was a mod) for example, I simply knew that it's gonna be frustrating. Not even talking about RO and DH. You just have to keep trying. I had my problems with Major Koenig but after a certain point you get to know how people play and even people like Unique or Major Koenig get predictable and vulnerable. Today Major Koenig is just one of many players for me. Can't kill him head to head with a rifle? Well, get an SMG or MG and flank him. Atleast that guy is active, a good teamplayer and always on the front line.

What really pisses me of are the statswhores who really destroy the game. People who always go for the most lame asset and only go for spawnkilling, using commander arty or only sitting on the big arty pieces where they feel untouchable. I played like two days ago and I had a serious problem with Angevin. On Bardia he placed a tripod in line of sight of a spawn on the last flag just to rack up some kills. People on the server started to complain as it was certainly not fair play and asked the admins to kick him. One round after that we played St. lo 32 and Angevin was on the arty in the german mainbase so theroreticaly an uncap, but on the frontline. A buddy of mine and me decided to just drive there have some fun and kill him on the arty. I placed an s-mine there as I exactly knew what he was gonna do next. I left the crossed flag and attacked Chateau afterwards. Ofcourse he started to whine and taking screen shots because his awesome K/D of 32:0 was f*cked up and only 32:2 afterwards. Next round on Hyacinth he played commander to rack up points and kills as was to be expected from him and only sat on the mortar. Those are the people who really destroy the game, who are not able to have a little fun and accept when they got tricked by someone being creative.

Only thing I can say about such people is what goes around comes around.  >:(
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: SamusMaximus8492 on 19-06-2014, 19:06:26
Of course the silver lining with players like Keonig, EmmitFitzhume, etc are the rare but extremely gratifying moments of beating them at their own game. Got the drop on Keonig once with a no. 4, head on, in that microsecond where he had me in his sights. So satisfying  ;D
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Zoologic on 19-06-2014, 21:06:21
Read it: a proper one. Look at our posts at that thread!

LuckyOne:
FH from the start has always been a theme-mod, historically correct one. They converted the whole BF1942 into a more mature and historically correct contents. Some of the maps are recycled from the defaults. But in the process of doing it, it inadvertently improved the original BF1942 game.

PR also started the same, small things than step into much bigger thing. It started with realism theme, and then went on to forcing the famous team play mechanism. I was one of the first downloader when PR was still less than 1 MB mod.

They got very different in time, PR develop that way, while FH the other way. But people remembered FH that improved BF1942 a lot, including realism. Then came BF2, and then FH2, and later, PR, which excels on that realism point. The damage was already done. FH2 tried to shake it off by going full reverse to further distance itself from PR, as you put it: FH2.45. It was a disaster.

We have to agree on what makes FH2 good and polish it! Things like beautiful statics, scenery, effects, the immersion and the experience of "being there." It is therefore clear that map-making is FH2's most excellent part, apart from beautifully rendered vehicles. The scaling is very convincing, that it is almost an art of itself.

5hitm4k3r:
People who are after stat feels rewarded for something. Some people do hog AA because they are after AA badge. Same for tanks, arty, and other assets. Some do others. It is time to design the achievement awards more carefully.

Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Kelmola on 19-06-2014, 21:06:50
I would start by taking out the maps that are best suited to <64p away from the 100p rotation: Giarabub, Sfakia, Tunis, Brest, Ramelle, Anctoville. Yes, large matches on these are fun every once in a while for the sheer carnage, but they don't really play well with 80+. PHL and PDH are straddling the fence.

Is it possible to have Omaha and Gold (ie. whatever are the new maps, once they become "old" maps) in rotation more than twice? Could be even that the server would run both twice in a row at the beginning of the cycle so with teamswitch you could experience both sides, and then they would be included more times in the randomized part of the rotation?
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 20-06-2014, 00:06:29
Sure it is possible to have certain maps more than one time in the rotation and that's how we handled it for the release of 2.46. Not quite sure how it works atm so would need to check that. But we as the server admins have to ask the question what we want to achieve. I can asure you that we spend hours over hours just on the topic how to get the best possible map rotation, how to get the right tools in place and how to give a good view what FH2 actually is and what the devs wanted to achieve. I think, that every map deserves it's place in the mod, even Aberdeen and therefore all of them are in the rotation on the server every day. The rotation is totaly random, so the only thing that could make you believe otherwise is a server crash or you are playing the game too much  ;D

Tbh, I don't know why we are still discussing the map rotation for FH2. We have 40 maps with different theatres, different game modes, different sizes, light settings, vehicles loadouts, factions etc. The list is endless and the variety of gameplay that you will find in FH2 is extremely huge. We have basicly over 200!! different tank models in the game alone.

If you guys raise that question again, please show me one FPS game (yeah I know, BF 1942+mods) that offers that amount of maps, and that huge variety and this fine sense for details. Because I don't know any.  :-\

Maps, or map rotations are certainly not the problem of FH2. From my personal POV it was the release of 2.45 and the huge amount of time that it took to fix the most urgent problems. Not bashing anyone here, but it is more or less an observation of how the things went. Alot of long timers drifted away and lost interest. Luckily 2.46 brought back some of the old faces, but it was always a struggle for FH2 in the last couple of years after 2.4 to gain new players and keep them. It is a niche game and we have a nice little, but quite stable community.

Not saying that I wouldln't like to see many more people, but I sometimes feel that this train left long time ago.



Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 20-06-2014, 01:06:36
Kinda off topic but I just got off a round where some people where talking about client side 'cheats.' like turning off fog or making soldier textures pink. People who do this would certainly ruin the game imo, but for the life of me I can't think of anyone who'd be that stupid.

5hitm4k3r, as an admin, is it possible to catch people who mod the client side of FH to their advantage, have you seen things like that?
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: jan_kurator on 20-06-2014, 02:06:38
Kinda off topic but I just got off a round where some people where talking about client side 'cheats.' like turning off fog or making soldier textures pink. People who do this would certainly ruin the game imo, but for the life of me I can't think of anyone who'd be that stupid.

5hitm4k3r, as an admin, is it possible to catch people who mod the client side of FH to their advantage, have you seen things like that?
Such cheats are possible and can't be really detected by server admins, I think. But using such methods just to have better K/D ratio in game like FH2 means that someone's utterly retarded or just doing it to ruin game for others. If that's the reason we can't fight it, they will find other way to fuck the game up for us.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: kingtiger1891 on 20-06-2014, 04:06:32
A game would be more veteran friendly as its weaponary is more lethal. Let's face it..
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Zoologic on 20-06-2014, 05:06:38
Making soldier textures pink is quite a change in the packaged files. Doesn't the server detects the discrepancy?

All of you seemed to blame K/D ratio, so why not remove that K/D stat? That will practically remove every players who are after stat. Let's see what are the negative consequences. I think the substituting reward should be more than just smug in the face or bragging rights with generally accepted benchmark of l33tness that is high K/D ratio.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 20-06-2014, 12:06:43
Kinda off topic but I just got off a round where some people where talking about client side 'cheats.' like turning off fog or making soldier textures pink. People who do this would certainly ruin the game imo, but for the life of me I can't think of anyone who'd be that stupid.

5hitm4k3r, as an admin, is it possible to catch people who mod the client side of FH to their advantage, have you seen things like that?

I know that there are a few things possible, but it is ofcourse impossible to detect such stuff same as with normal cheats like wallhacks and aimbots. We had problems with a player called horsefucker/cockcheese/Kassunakki etc. He had many reincarnations and was/is something like the Chuck Norris of FH2. Just imagine a mix of Karell, DayZlayer and Unique but even better with all those assets. We banned him after long observations, internal discussions and at the end with gud feel. His first reaction in our forum from him was "How did you find out that I was cheating?". So I think we handled it quite good.

I also know people who have crappy hardware and need to play on lowest settings, wich is a huge advantage. No need to change any files. I read about other cheats like louder sounds etc, but at the end they are real cheats and hard to detect.

@Zoo: good point about the K/D. In RO/RO2 people mostly forget about their K/D as it is not displayed ingame and it is one of the things where FH2 or BF in general lags behind. Would give a riot  ;D
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 20-06-2014, 12:06:15
a player called horsefucker/cockcheese/Kassunakki etc.

His first reaction in our forum from him was "How did you find out that I was cheating?".

Shameful dispray. And then people wonder why I dont like to play games with my fellow finns.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 20-06-2014, 13:06:01
Don't feel ashamed Flippy. You will always find idiots, no matter where you go.  ;)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: FORGOTTENKEVINOHOPE on 20-06-2014, 21:06:32
"quasi cheaters;" (people who don't cheat, but the end effect is the same for the rest of the player base).

That's the best way I've heard to describe anyone like a Major Koenig. They don't cheat outright but instead dedicate their lives to sniping people as fast as they can and in the end ruin the game for a lot of new players. It's like playing basketball with LeBron James; fun and interesting for a while, but in the end you're just gonna rage quit after the 10th time he dunks on you. (for you Europeans, think Lionel Messi :P)


I don't think that highly skilled people are a problem of FH2. At times, when DaZlayer was active nobody complained about it besides the usual cheating suspicions that some of us get once in a while. Last time on Keren I was the last surviving Italian and had a good run with the rifle and killed like 8 guys in a row. Ofcourse someone instantly called me a cheater, a guy who I had never seen on the server before.  ::)

Tbh, when I am new to a game I try to adapt to it, no matter how experienced other people are. When I got into Insurgency (when it was a mod) for example, I simply knew that it's gonna be frustrating. Not even talking about RO and DH. You just have to keep trying. I had my problems with Major Koenig but after a certain point you get to know how people play and even people like Unique or Major Koenig get predictable and vulnerable. Today Major Koenig is just one of many players for me. Can't kill him head to head with a rifle? Well, get an SMG or MG and flank him. Atleast that guy is active, a good teamplayer and always on the front line.

What really pisses me of are the statswhores who really destroy the game. People who always go for the most lame asset and only go for spawnkilling, using commander arty or only sitting on the big arty pieces where they feel untouchable. I played like two days ago and I had a serious problem with Angevin. On Bardia he placed a tripod in line of sight of a spawn on the last flag just to rack up some kills. People on the server started to complain as it was certainly not fair play and asked the admins to kick him. One round after that we played St. lo 32 and Angevin was on the arty in the german mainbase so theroreticaly an uncap, but on the frontline. A buddy of mine and me decided to just drive there have some fun and kill him on the arty. I placed an s-mine there as I exactly knew what he was gonna do next. I left the crossed flag and attacked Chateau afterwards. Ofcourse he started to whine and taking screen shots because his awesome K/D of 32:0 was f*cked up and only 32:2 afterwards. Next round on Hyacinth he played commander to rack up points and kills as was to be expected from him and only sat on the mortar. Those are the people who really destroy the game, who are not able to have a little fun and accept when they got tricked by someone being creative.

Only thing I can say about such people is what goes around comes around.  >:(

"One round after that we played St. lo 32 and Angevin was on the arty in the german mainbase so theroreticaly an uncap, but on the frontline. A buddy of mine and me decided to just drive there have some fun and kill him on the arty. I placed an s-mine there as I exactly knew what he was gonna do next. I left the crossed flag and attacked Chateau afterwards.  "

this certainly doesn't sound like a very good thing for an admin to do to me  ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Jobabb Jobabbsen on 20-06-2014, 21:06:21
Is the mod alive ?   Havent played for a while  and now i just see 2 dead servers
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: jan_kurator on 21-06-2014, 00:06:43
Is the mod alive ?   Havent played for a while  and now i just see 2 dead servers
And you think people on this forum talk about what...? Of course it is NOT DEAD but FH2 is using new master server now, that's probably why you can't see any active servers. Download FH2 Launcher (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/download/FH2Launcher-Setup.exe) update your build and join one of the servers (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/fh2_gameserver.php?)!  ;)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: HPSFroadrunner on 22-06-2014, 20:06:06
I haven't read the entire thread yet, I will after I post.  Sorry if this sounds like bitching.  I know many of you are very protective of your beloved game, and I mean no disrespect from my comments.  I simply would like to see more people playing, and enjoying this mod for years to come.  My thanks and respect for the devs, admins, and servers that run this game!

I think to make the game have more appeal the devs really need to look at player feedback (especially the 'noobs' and casual players).

One complaint I have heard is that the game is too 'slow-paced'.  I am not sure what was meant by others saying this, but IMO that is one area that could use improvement.  For me, I get really tired of wasting a bunch of play time looking for ammo.  It is very often hard to find, or just non-existent.  I do not see a huge problem with making ammo more readily available in most cases for both infantry and vehicles.  Marking the ammo locations on minimap would be a huge improvement too.  Another aspect that really slows down the game is searching/waiting for certain pick-up kits.   It is hard, or impossible to be a good squad leader, or member if you have to keep spawning at main or certain flag for a certain kit.  I would also like to see the quantity of pick up kits increased, like they were on some of the 'Wacht Am Rhein' maps.  Having several pick-up kits available at each flag really allows you to change your game to suit the battle.  Kit limits really mess up the game too, when your S/L asks you to spawn with A/T kit (for example) and none are available.  I really doubt it's possible, but I would like to see a weapon unlock system or system closer to BF3, where you get to pick your kit from available weapons and tools.  I do not buy the argument that without kit limits everyone will run around with an MG or SMG.  It didn't happen in FH1, and it doesn't happen in FH2 when kits aren't as limited.  Often, I am trying to take a kit, and the only ones available are MP40 and MG42.  I dislike kit-limits in general, as it takes away from a players choice of how to play his game.  Every round is different, and I like the ability to change my game according to how the battle unfolds.   
This brings me to another thing I think could be improved.  FH2 maps compared to FH1 maps are much more linear.  By that, I mean they have a much more set path to follow.  FH1 maps were almost completely open, and you could move around almost any point, and flank from any side.  FH2 maps seem to have a lot more choke-points, walls, mountains etc that prevent you from making a creative attack when you can't defeat an enemy head-on.  Or a lack of cover for infantry to move under.  To me, that was one reason Battlefield 1942, and FH1 were such a huge hit for so long.  They really allowed the player to pick the type of game he wanted to play with almost complete freedom.  The more freedom and choices that are taken away from the player, the more we become like 'bots' or players of some scripted single-player.
As for map choices, it's a big complaint of mine, but I also realize that many people love the maps I hate, and vice-versa.  One thing I believe needs addressing though is 762's map rotation.  Maybe I just have s**t luck and timing, and my gameplay would definitely attest to that, but why do we always get about 3-5 desert maps to 1 non-desert?  I really hate the African campaign maps, but I have finally found something to do on most of them.  I can usually sit through one map I don't like when there's a good one coming next, but it seems like every time I join 762 about 50-75% of the map rotation is desert maps.  Then, when an epic map like St. Vith comes out, it's almost never played, and rarely when there's a full server to really enjoy it.  I would at least like to see a map rotation that alternates between the different theaters to keep the variety.
   
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: HPSFroadrunner on 22-06-2014, 20:06:06
HOWEVER, although there aren't droves of new players blasting through we do need to make sure steps are taken to try to retain them. Really, the best way to do this is through in-game help. Efforts really need to be made to help teach these guys and get them in the swing of things. If you've got a big brother to show you the ropes, you'll get way more out of the game :)

And THIS!  Sorry, but FH2 players are, for the most part, jack-asses.  When a new player comes with questions, a little help and guidance will make them feel more welcome.  Most veterans drive away new players by being elitist jerks.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: jan_kurator on 22-06-2014, 21:06:53
Another aspect that really slows down the game is searching/waiting for certain pick-up kits.   It is hard, or impossible to be a good squad leader, or member if you have to keep spawning at main or certain flag for a certain kit.  I would also like to see the quantity of pick up kits increased, like they were on some of the 'Wacht Am Rhein' maps.
It is made on purpose to limit those weapons, I found pickup kits on Wacht Am Rhein maps to be an overkill. There were lots of weapons just lying on the ground around the flags, I didn't like that at all.

Kit limits really mess up the game too, when your S/L asks you to spawn with A/T kit (for example) and none are available.  I really doubt it's possible, but I would like to see a weapon unlock system or system closer to BF3, where you get to pick your kit from available weapons and tools.  I do not buy the argument that without kit limits everyone will run around with an MG or SMG.  It didn't happen in FH1, and it doesn't happen in FH2 when kits aren't as limited.  Often, I am trying to take a kit, and the only ones available are MP40 and MG42.  I dislike kit-limits in general, as it takes away from a players choice of how to play his game.  Every round is different, and I like the ability to change my game according to how the battle unfolds.   
Those weapons are limited due to historical and game balance reasons and most of the limited kits are available in some numbers for fireteams, so if you can't choose any, it means that somebody in your squad already has it. And don't compare it to FH1 because for example, you couldn't spawn on your SL in FH1. Do I have to explain how it could end if you and your squad mates could spawn with unlimitted MG42s on a sneaky SL in the enemy's flag zone? Also, what you suggest is unfortunately impossible or need huge ammount of work as whole system would have to be reworked with use of lots of the engine limitation way arounds to achieve that what in the end may result in some bugs and huge mess in the game files.

One thing I believe needs addressing though is 762's map rotation.  Maybe I just have s**t luck and timing, and my gameplay would definitely attest to that, but why do we always get about 3-5 desert maps to 1 non-desert? I really hate the African campaign maps, but I have finally found something to do on most of them.  I can usually sit through one map I don't like when there's a good one coming next, but it seems like every time I join 762 about 50-75% of the map rotation is desert maps.  Then, when an epic map like St. Vith comes out, it's almost never played, and rarely when there's a full server to really enjoy it.  I would at least like to see a map rotation that alternates between the different theaters to keep the variety.
Map rotation on 762 server is random, so I bet it is your s**t luck only, as timing doesn't matter.

And THIS!  Sorry, but FH2 players are, for the most part, jack-asses.  When a new player comes with questions, a little help and guidance will make them feel more welcome.  Most veterans drive away new players by being elitist jerks.

I always answer new players's questions, even if they're extremely silly, sometimes I even try to help them before they ask anything, when I see that they don't know what's going on on the server, but sometimes, I'm being tired of people who ask questions, don't wait for the answer and bitch about it later. We also have a lot of such people unfortunately. It's easy to blame one side. Don't forget that people are on the server to play, not everybody want to/have time to read the chat and write messages and teach others how to play, for newcomers I can only suggest to watch our trainning videos, which can be found here (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=vb.267587761683&type=2). ;)

Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 22-06-2014, 23:06:44

"One round after that we played St. lo 32 and Angevin was on the arty in the german mainbase so theroreticaly an uncap, but on the frontline. A buddy of mine and me decided to just drive there have some fun and kill him on the arty. I placed an s-mine there as I exactly knew what he was gonna do next. I left the crossed flag and attacked Chateau afterwards.  "

this certainly doesn't sound like a very good thing for an admin to do to me  ??? ??? ???

Somehow a fair point on the other hand not really the point of my post. Looking back at it, I shouldn't have done it from the admin POV, but on the other hand I take the responsibility for it and can write this story here.

It is not as if I spawnraped him for half an hour on that flag, so it was more a matter of thirty seconds. First time he blasted himself while actually trying to hit our jeep infront of him and after that I just planted the s-mine on the arty and moved on to another flag. But this is not really the issue here. He started complaining, as he stepped on the s-mine. He was just angry because he got tricked and found out that other players can be more creative and clever and because he acknowledged that he was predictable. Some people can't just swallow their pride and have some fun and laugh about such stuff. Yesterday I got tricked by Tutvis two times and I just honored him for it. Do people not write "n1" or "good shoot" these days anymore? Same when people start to camp in a tank on Cobra in the german mainbase and start to complain about base camping Shermans, first thing I will try is to kill that guy and not go the easy way and kick him.

People still seem to think that our rules give them the right to be untouchable while engaging other players and boosting their score. And this is certainly not the case. It is the same as if somebody camps on that flag on St. Lo with a tank and waits for american players to move towards the church. I will kill him as anybody esle will do. Same as ABC lines are not some kind of kevlar where you can hide behind and fire at your enemies. Same as the problem on the first two flags on Keren where each flag gets crossed once capped. Those flags are on the direct frontline, same as the last flag on St. Lo 32.

And I am the last one who will kick you for killing those douchebags. That said, I think I have only a few weak moments while admining, so I think you will grant me some fun while actually playing the game. Sometimes it is better to teach those guys a lesson in the game, rather than just using the !w, !k, or !b commands.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Musti on 23-06-2014, 23:06:50
It is made on purpose to limit those weapons, I found pickup kits on Wacht Am Rhein maps to be an overkill. There were lots of weapons just lying on the ground around the flags, I didn't like that at all.
I would argue this point, I think the game needs more pickup kits than we get now, or at least some way to move the current one's further up the front line or something, because sadly, the kits that are in the mainbase are rarely used and it's a bit of a waste to have them there, especially the less "exclusive" ones like the pickup assault kits (with additional pistol or whatever) etc.. Of course having pickup kits spawnpoint "move" could be confusing for the player, so that's less than perfect solution, I don't know.  I hope there is some way to do this right. So you could actually use those "combat" kits like shotguns and STG's instead of them just sitting in the main base for the entire game.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: The Nanny on 23-06-2014, 23:06:25
It is made on purpose to limit those weapons, I found pickup kits on Wacht Am Rhein maps to be an overkill. There were lots of weapons just lying on the ground around the flags, I didn't like that at all.
I would argue this point, I think the game needs more pickup kits than we get now, or at least some way to move the current one's further up the front line or something, because sadly, the kits that are in the mainbase are rarely used and it's a bit of a waste to have them there, especially the less "exclusive" ones like the pickup assault kits (with additional pistol or whatever) etc.. Of course having pickup kits spawnpoint "move" could be confusing for the player, so that's less than perfect solution, I don't know.  I hope there is some way to do this right. So you could actually use those "combat" kits like shotguns and STG's instead of them just sitting in the main base for the entire game.

In my new guy-ish opinion, the kit numbers seem about right.  I think it encourages teamwork to make best use of them.  For some, the fun in the game is about getting the most out of whatever weapon is available, even if it is off the rack.  The strategy of applying a special kit in the right situation is more satisfying if it works...less satisfying if everyone has a quad-barrelled rail gun. :)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: LuckyOne on 24-06-2014, 14:06:01
Wait, aren't the kit limits team-based, not squad based? Are you trying to leak some new info, jan?   ;)

I also agree that some way to move more pickup kits to the front would be nice, but I guess the only way to do it would be to adopt a PR style request system...
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: jan_kurator on 24-06-2014, 14:06:26
Wait, aren't the kit limits team-based, not squad based? Are you trying to leak some new info, jan?   ;)

They are team-based, but slight changes have been made to this system in 2.46:
Quote
Upgrade for kit limiting
- "Seniority" (e.g., if there are 2 dead players and only 1 available kit, the player who selected the kit earlier is allowed to spawn with it). You loose seniority when you a) select another kit; b) switch teams; c) die with another kit.
- Large squads priority (you're allowed to select any limited kit disregarding the number of available kits and your seniority if you are a member of a large squad (5 or more players) and no one in your squad is running around with the same kit or selected it earlier).
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: LuckyOne on 24-06-2014, 14:06:36
Ah, cool, time for me to read the changelog, I guess. :P
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: jan_kurator on 24-06-2014, 14:06:48
Ah, cool, time for me to read the changelog, I guess. :P
Not sure is it in the trolllog changelog. I took it from internal forum, but since it's in game it's not a leak  ;)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: GeoPat on 24-06-2014, 19:06:58
I would like to see more squad participation in this mod.  Squad-based kit limits and more open maps would incentivize people to join squads.  At the very least, make it a server option so we can have some teamwork servers in addition to the current cat-herding servers.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: LuckyOne on 24-06-2014, 20:06:47
^ The thing is, to make squads more appealing you need to provide perks that will encourage players to join them. At the same time, denying assets from people just because they are not in a squad can be seen as an attack on the player freedom and put off more people from playing.

The problem is that this engine is quite limited when it comes to providing means to changing squad play...

...Would it be possible to reward extra teamwork points for people in squads? A straight multiplier could work I guess...

Focusing on larger maps could work too, as people will join for the ease of getting back to action, but then again some people think large maps are boring...

The only perks a squad provides atm is a mobile spawn point (which isn't really always reliable, as it depends on the ability of the SL to stay alive, and luck, mostly) and VOIP (which is rarely used, and if it works, the quality often sucks).
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Musti on 24-06-2014, 21:06:30
^ The thing is, to make squads more appealing you need to provide perks that will encourage players to join them
Playing in a squad does not equal teamwork, it just means you get bunch of green dots on your minimap and an additional spawnpoint.
At the same time, denying assets from people just because they are not in a squad can be seen as an attack on the player freedom and put off more people from playing.
Damn right it is, and it would only cause people to make squads just to get those assets, that would not only not help, but probably also hinder teamwork really (bunch of squads full of muppets that want shiny guns, and the person who actually wants to play in a squad can't make one...)

Also I like me lonewolfing, and I don't need anyone blabbering about something to me just so I can use a gun that I want/need.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: GeoPat on 25-06-2014, 00:06:31
the difference of opinion between teamplayers and loanwhelps is why we need more options.  Right now the player community is comprised of 2 overlapping groups, pubby players and tournament players.  During current  FHT battle days the public server is only half populated(I wonder what shitfest it becomes).  The other tournment, WaW, has very few people who play pubby.  This gives you an idea of these 2 groups.  Tourney players are easily more numerous.  We should make it possible to have tourney style play on day-to-day public servers.

We can use the 128 map level to make more open versions of existing large maps(no push code, larger combat zones, etc) and tie things like squad-based kit limits and rally point system to the level.  We can call it "tournament-style level".  This gives servers another option to mix up playing styles, like some other mod with different gameplay styles.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Mudzin on 25-06-2014, 00:06:16
The problem of teamplay on pubby is that theres not many good squad leaders... 
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: GeoPat on 25-06-2014, 01:06:03
The problem of teamplay on pubby is that theres not many good squad leaders...

But they do exist.  My idea is to get the teamplayers and good SLs back into actively playing pubby.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Hockeywarrior on 25-06-2014, 06:06:46
I agree with many others here that 762 is a big part of the problem. They hold the reins to the only big server which means they have nearly all the responsibility in maintaining a good gaming experience ... except that it seems they couldn't give a shit about it.

Random server disconnects that often result in a 16 or 32 player map being started up after the crash (resulting in horrible spam that confuses and frustrates players), a seemingly-complete ignorance to listen to what people in the server want to play map-wise, infamously bad adminning that is notorious for kicking players who simply kill 762 members or for banning the wrong players, and a complete lack of understanding what maps to run at what times of day. Oh and don't even get me started on the lack of team swapping to keep stacking from happening (which results massive steamrolls of one unlucky team map after map). These are absolutely basic levels of incompetence.

Granted, it's not all 762's fault. One issue is the inherent difficulty of the game, and the jedi-like skills of those who play it religiously. Just to put this in context, I have been playing FH2 ever since release. Before that, I played FH1 since the 2nd year of its existence. I have all of this experience, this veterancy, and yet I sometimes find the game to be incredibly frustrating if I haven't played in a couple of months. This is exacerbated by my bad ping, since I'm playing in the US -- though this is nothing new and I've grown accustomed to loosing 70% of close quarters encounters. The game can feel incredibly unmerciful and scary -- especially if you're not in a good squad. And let's be honest: most of the time you're not in one unless you are one of the aforementioned jedi masters and happen to know everyone on the server.

SIDENOTE: Oh and a side note for veteran players out there including myself: you all can't be expected to play worse to make the game easier for others (herp), but jesus guys -- stop stacking the goddamn teams. It kills player morale (and player numbers) when one team steamrolls the other map after map because all of the FH2 faithful are stacking them. Nothing kills any sense of teamwork or sense of fairness when this happens ... and it often results in the sever emptying pretty damn fast. /SIDENOTE

All MP games involve the frustrations of new players getting owned by experienced ones, but it's made tougher in FH2 by the simple fact that this is a game that is so unique in its quirks -- the movement, gun handling, animations, slow pace of play, complex maps, vehicle handling quirks, glitchiness of the BF2 engine (plus the extra clunkiness created by 150+ ping), all combined with insta death that can come from any bush or window, combines for a potently frustrating experience for the initiated. Of course, a number of the things I mentioned in that list are "good" things -- they add to the fun of the game, but they also increase its learning curve.

I'm not placing blame here. It's inevitable that a game with a small, loyal player base is going to have a massive skill gap between its oldest and newest players. I'm simply pointing out a fact. That said, there are certainly things we can each do as veteran players to make FH2 a more welcoming and less frustrating experience. I'll list them in a later post, though I think you all are on the right track in coming up with some obvious ways.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: FORGOTTENKEVINOHOPE on 25-06-2014, 10:06:40
762 is not the problem here, without their server fh2 would have died off.    yes, some questionable admining.  the maps are on random....  server disconnects happen on every server.  higher ping for us westerners on their server.  learn to love the s-mine  ;D    start a squad and be part of the solution!
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 25-06-2014, 15:06:23
I agree with many others here that 762 is a big part of the problem. They hold the reins to the only big server which means they have nearly all the responsibility in maintaining a good gaming experience ... except that it seems they couldn't give a shit about it.

Random server disconnects that often result in a 16 or 32 player map being started up after the crash (resulting in horrible spam that confuses and frustrates players), a seemingly-complete ignorance to listen to what people in the server want to play map-wise, infamously bad adminning that is notorious for kicking players who simply kill 762 members or for banning the wrong players, and a complete lack of understanding what maps to run at what times of day. Oh and don't even get me started on the lack of team swapping to keep stacking from happening (which results massive steamrolls of one unlucky team map after map). These are absolutely basic levels of incompetence.


Why is 762 a big part of the problem? Did it ever come to your mind that we are playing a ten year old game with not so hyper gfx and that you won't catch too man new people just with awesome gameplay.
That said, gameplay is the propably biggest part of the problem next to the age of the game. You die damn fast in this game, and that over and over again. I know only a few other games where it is like that, and they are not the top sellers. All those instakill games are niche games, because people just get too frustrated too fast and want to be able to autoheal in a corner and take bullet after bullet. You need to have a masochistic fetish to enjoy FH2, I will admit that, but I enjoy games that punish me for mistakes and tell me that I suck ;D

Besides that, 762 is not always perfect and never has been, but we atleast try to keep the server running and people are indeed coming back wich is not only a success of the server administration, but the dev team. If you want to get involved or voice your opinion, then please go to our forum as that's the right place: http://www.762-ranking.de/forum/forumdisplay.php?23-Forgotten-Hope-2

For all your mentioned complaints: I take some of those points as an insult tbh or some kind of stupidity, expecialy after the discuission and posts before wich give alot of explainations why things are as they are. I will let you figure out, wich one. Good tip: If you don't like something, bring up a suggestion for improvement or don't use it at all or don't say anything. I always see people saying "this is bad bad, that is bad, everything is bad on 762", but none of those did it better or have an idea what their ideas have as consequences, because most of the time they are only thinking within limits of their microscopic horizon. That it works most of the time doesn't mean anything.

I don't know why all those threats turn into a 762 bitching fest? Is it really that bad? Are 762 really the root of all evil? I have the feeling that all those complaints about 762 won't bring us one bit further in how we can increase player numbers. Nobody brings a suggestion what could be done better or what the real problems are. You can't do much about the age of the game or the gameplay, same as you can't do much about team stacking. 2.45 showed what happens when you change the gameplay and we will also not switch off autoteam balance or dictate on wich side people join, nor will we mix up teams after every round to rip people out of squads that they created with their friends.  ::)

There could be better advertising from my POV, but someone has to do it. Good example: we still have the 2.45 download button on the mainpage. It is a small detail, but if I release something new, I need to advertise it. But then again, manpower is a big problem in the FH2 dev team, so I rather see them doing new stuff for eastern front instead of fixing that button. It's always a comromise, isn't it?
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Mudzin on 25-06-2014, 15:06:19
There could be better advertising from my POV, but someone has to do it. Good example: we still have the 2.45 download button on the mainpage. It is a small detail, but if I release something new, I need to advertise it. But then again, manpower is a big problem in the FH2 dev team, so I rather see them doing new stuff for eastern front instead of fixing that button. It's always a comromise, isn't it?

Yeah, I've also noticed that button issue recently...
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Alubat on 25-06-2014, 16:06:15
Maybe the Forgotten Hope Community Steam group needs a brush up!!
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/fhcommunity

It has 421 members and mostly more than 100 is online ?? ( playing other games )
there is no action or anything going on!!.
NOT even 1 post in the discussion forum wtf ??
IF that community page looked more cool up to date + easier way of integrating FH into steam, more steamgamers might get attracted to play FH2.

BTW!!

Battlefield 2   - 50% on steam summersale

http://store.steampowered.com/app/24860/
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: HPSFroadrunner on 26-06-2014, 16:06:41
It is made on purpose to limit those weapons, I found pickup kits on Wacht Am Rhein maps to be an overkill. There were lots of weapons just lying on the ground around the flags, I didn't like that at all.

There's extra weapons sitting on the ground.  What's the problem?  They are there if you need them.  I like being able to change my role while playing, to suit the circumstances.  A really good FH map plays different each time you play it.  Pick-up kits allow you change to match the needs of the team.

Those weapons are limited due to historical and game balance reasons and most of the limited kits are available in some numbers for fireteams, so if you can't choose any, it means that somebody in your squad already has it. And don't compare it to FH1 because for example, you couldn't spawn on your SL in FH1. Do I have to explain how it could end if you and your squad mates could spawn with unlimited MG42s on a sneaky SL in the enemy's flag zone? Also, what you suggest is unfortunately impossible or need huge ammount of work as whole system would have to be reworked with use of lots of the engine limitation way around to achieve that what in the end may result in some bugs and huge mess in the game files.

If I and my squadmates all spawn in the enemy flag-zone with MG-42s, I presume we'd all be taken out with a grenade.  Why is the MG-42 always mentioned as the gun everyone will flood the map with if there were no limits?  I rarely find the MG-42 unavailable.  Same with the MP40.  I like historical accuracy in the game, at least to keep the proper weapons in the proper time period.  Trying to keep numbers limited according to production/distribution seems a little unrealistic.  If it keeps people from playing, then maybe the benefits have to be weighed against the drawbacks.

One thing I believe needs addressing though is 762's map rotation.  Maybe I just have s**t luck and timing, and my gameplay would definitely attest to that, but why do we always get about 3-5 desert maps to 1 non-desert? I really hate the African campaign maps, but I have finally found something to do on most of them.  I can usually sit through one map I don't like when there's a good one coming next, but it seems like every time I join 762 about 50-75% of the map rotation is desert maps.  Then, when an epic map like St. Vith comes out, it's almost never played, and rarely when there's a full server to really enjoy it.  I would at least like to see a map rotation that alternates between the different theaters to keep the variety.
Map rotation on 762 server is random, so I bet it is your s**t luck only, as timing doesn't matter.

I shouldn't have listed this here.  The thread is "How to keep the mod alive", not a map rotation bitch-session.  I also didn't mean to say that 762 is a reason there are not more people playing.  I am sorry if my comments were taken that way.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 26-06-2014, 17:06:20
If the MP40 and MG42 are usually available, then what is the problem?
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Kubador on 26-06-2014, 17:06:25
@HPSFroadrunner

The problem with weapons availability and their restriction is that in FH2 every bullet is lethal and weapons that have high ROF and accuracy combined with big magazine makes it a perfect ground for abusive behavior. Every player will pick a better gun if and whenever they can. Now, the good rule of thumb is for a high advantage equipment would be a corresponding disadvantage so we would have an element of choice for a player (high armoured tank but a slow one). But we're dealing with higher historical accuracy to balance ratio than most games so map designers has to come up with some (arbitrary at first glance) limiters. 
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: HPSFroadrunner on 27-06-2014, 04:06:28
If the MP40 and MG42 are usually available, then what is the problem?
  It's a problem when those aren't the guns you want.

When I saw this thread, the way it was worded made me think it was started by one or more of the game developers.  I should've checked the OP and I wouldn't have bothered posting.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Miklas on 27-06-2014, 09:06:35
Back to the original topic: I don´t see the problem. The player base is quite strong and has been stable for several years now (compared to 2009 there are even more players from what I can tell). Heck, even FH1 is still being played.
You can´t expect a niche mod like FH2 to have a huge following. I don´t see a downward trend and therefore I´m not worried. FH2 have very loyal followers as there is really no competition out there (no other games offer what FH2 offers).
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 27-06-2014, 09:06:34
If the MP40 and MG42 are usually available, then what is the problem?
  It's a problem when those aren't the guns you want.

When I saw this thread, the way it was worded made me think it was started by one or more of the game developers.  I should've checked the OP and I wouldn't have bothered posting.

Which guns do you want then?
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 27-06-2014, 15:06:18
Back to the original topic: I don´t see the problem. The player base is quite strong and has been stable for several years now (compared to 2009 there are even more players from what I can tell). Heck, even FH1 is still being played.
You can´t expect a niche mod like FH2 to have a huge following. I don´t see a downward trend and therefore I´m not worried. FH2 have very loyal followers as there is really no competition out there (no other games offer what FH2 offers).

I don't see a downward trend aswell. Just played a match of Villers Bocage with a bunch of people in my squad I never heard of before. There drop in new people from time to time and I've seen alot of old familiar faces on the server recently.

But, the the question is still relevant. How can we keep this mod alive, when games like TW or FE hit the market. The amount of content in FH2 is huge, but when the gameplay on those new engines will get just a tiny bit better, then I see a big part of the playerbase shifting.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: FORGOTTENKEVINOHOPE on 27-06-2014, 20:06:27
If the MP40 and MG42 are usually available, then what is the problem?

he's a sniper whore thats what   :)


hahahaaha   sorry hpsf!
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: The Nanny on 28-06-2014, 15:06:41
Just saw how quickly team stacking can clear out a server...Sargoresci and Capt.Mike are some of the worst offenders for this, again.  The team stacking started with top players migrating to the British on Sfaika, with Sandre on Brits staying silent.  It wasn't subtle at all.  Then people started leaving in droves.

Sorry, IMHO the maps are fine...the kits are fine...the mechanics are fine...if you want to keep the mod alive, look at your veteran stat whores.  Server-killers.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: RAnDOOm on 28-06-2014, 16:06:53
Just saw how quickly team stacking can clear out a server...Sargoresci and Capt.Mike are some of the worst offenders for this, again.  The team stacking started with top players migrating to the British on Sfaika, with Sandre on Brits staying silent.  It wasn't subtle at all.  Then people started leaving in droves.

Sorry, IMHO the maps are fine...the kits are fine...the mechanics are fine...if you want to keep the mod alive, look at your veteran stat whores.  Server-killers.

This is the main reason i rarely play public anymore.

Almost everytime i play public all the veteran players and admins are playing in the same side.

I always go to the other side.

A try to put up a good fight but the end results always is: a bad gaming experience.

I cant even imagine the new players that join the mod for the first time to try it out.

I bet all my chips that they leave after a few rounds and never return.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: HPSFroadrunner on 28-06-2014, 17:06:16
If the MP40 and MG42 are usually available, then what is the problem?

he's a sniper whore thats what   :)


hahahaaha   sorry hpsf!

GUILTY, as charged.  My complaint about kit limits doesn't have to do with the sniper kit for the most part, except I would like to see them available closer to the front in some cases.  I would also agree that one kit that NEEDS limiting is the sniper class.  Original BF1942 had way too many snipers (and never any spotters).  I like the WaW system of kit limits, or what I have seen of it anyway.  It's also frustrating to find pick-up kits sometimes.  I have been playing for about 2 years now, and still not really sure where a lot of the kits can be found.  Same goes for ammo.  I would really like to see ammo more available, and easier to find.

As for what kit I am looking for, it depends on the map, and the situation.  It's not always about which main gun I am looking for either, but the kit, and some of the other items.  That's one reason I am such a proponent of easy to find pick-up kits, and why I wish we could customize the kits more.  Some maps have really questionable load-outs, like spawn-able A/T kits on primarily infantry maps.  In a case like that, I would much rather see a larger variety on infantry type kits available at spawn.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Nerdsturm on 28-06-2014, 18:06:06
Back to the original topic: I don´t see the problem. The player base is quite strong and has been stable for several years now (compared to 2009 there are even more players from what I can tell). Heck, even FH1 is still being played.
You can´t expect a niche mod like FH2 to have a huge following. I don´t see a downward trend and therefore I´m not worried. FH2 have very loyal followers as there is really no competition out there (no other games offer what FH2 offers).

I don't see a downward trend aswell. Just played a match of Villers Bocage with a bunch of people in my squad I never heard of before. There drop in new people from time to time and I've seen alot of old familiar faces on the server recently.

But, the the question is still relevant. How can we keep this mod alive, when games like TW or FE hit the market. The amount of content in FH2 is huge, but when the gameplay on those new engines will get just a tiny bit better, then I see a big part of the playerbase shifting.

I agree that FH2 has survived so long mostly on virtue of there being no real alternatives with comparable gameplay. TW and FE might pose a threat to FH2's player numbers, but that's only if they're a better game than FH2 in which case there's no harm in moving (The work of the FH2 devs has hardly gone to waste, very few mods survive half as long as FH2 has). Regardless, I'm not too concerned about those games drawing lots of players from FH2 since there has been plenty of other realism based WW2 games/mods (Red Orchestra, Resistance and Liberation, ect.) that haven't captured the same feel as FH2.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Gotkai on 28-06-2014, 18:06:23
I can understand why Sargcoresi and Capt.Mike want to play in the same team.
I would also prefer to play with them instead of guys asking how to aim with a tank or how to reammo. Some of them don't even know the mapname. Not to mention the winning conditions. This is really frustrating for me.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 28-06-2014, 19:06:47
Just saw how quickly team stacking can clear out a server...Sargoresci and Capt.Mike are some of the worst offenders for this, again.  The team stacking started with top players migrating to the British on Sfaika, with Sandre on Brits staying silent.  It wasn't subtle at all.  Then people started leaving in droves.

Sorry, IMHO the maps are fine...the kits are fine...the mechanics are fine...if you want to keep the mod alive, look at your veteran stat whores.  Server-killers.

There are lots of players in this game who I consider better than me, some of them mentioned above. Do you think that I always start complaining when I see them bunched up in the enemy team? Hell no. I will try to beat them.

I am sorry to say this, but to call three better guys in one team teamstacking is just a bit lazy. Team up and try to be more clever. You can beat Sargcoresi, Mike or Sandre, but it requires a bit of an effort ofcourse as they won't make it easy for you.

We all started as newbies and it was not any different when I started playing FH2 5 years ago. Today the difference is that new players want to have everything served on a silver plate. Most vets I know try to help new players where they can, but it has limits. There never has been a rule on any server in FH2 that prevented people from joining a team with their friends except auto team balance.

So this is just for your information. Don't forget that you are playing a FPS after all. There will always be people who are better or worse than you.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Adee on 28-06-2014, 19:06:23
I can understand why Sargcoresi and Capt.Mike want to play in the same team.
I would also prefer to play with them instead of guys asking how to aim with a tank or how to reammo. Some of them don't even know the mapname. Not to mention the winning conditions. This is really frustrating for me.

And where is the challenge? Playing among the weaker players is just as unpleasant as against them.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Gotkai on 28-06-2014, 20:06:45
Sometimes there is no challenge.
Playing in a team of 30, when half of them are not in a squad, if they don't join squads in good positions, when they use aircraft instead of capping flaggs, camping at uncappable flags for the whole round, using limited kits in tanks...
No, this has nothing to do with a challenge an i would really support a noob server, where they can practice. 
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: RAnDOOm on 28-06-2014, 20:06:23
Sometimes there is no challenge.
Playing in a team of 30, when half of them are not in a squad, if they don't join squads in good positions, when they use aircraft instead of capping flaggs, camping at uncappable flags for the whole round, using limited kits in tanks...
No, this has nothing to do with a challenge an i would really support a noob server, where they can practice.

Then its up to the veterans and admins to somehow "teach" them and make them see that value of teamwork.

Having all of them in the same side almost every rounds will not help at all. It will do the opposite.

But this is my opinion. Offcourse everyone is entitled to play with whoever they what.  :)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 28-06-2014, 23:06:45
You can't really ban people for being too good though. Although I will say this: I do not understand this obsession some people seem to have with their k/d. I can understand this in a competetive game like CS, but in FH2? I mean when it comes to the individual player, this mod is horribly unbalanced. I can easily get huge ass k/ds simply by playing artillery for example. At some point you have to ask yourself: What is the point?
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 28-06-2014, 23:06:09
FH2's k/d is such a bitch compared to a lot of other games just because it is far more difficult to stay alive than in many other games out there. Getting 5 kills and 15 deaths in FH2 is imho just fine and would make my day because Im so shit at it, but for example in Planetside 2 that would make me flip my table.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Damaso on 29-06-2014, 00:06:50
Want to keep FH2 alive?

Stop judging other people's gameplay - I promisse you results in the future if you do that so.

Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: HPSFroadrunner on 29-06-2014, 04:06:06
I've never seen a real problem in team-stacking.  Maybe when there's only 20 people in the server or something, but usually there are a few top-notch players on both sides, and usually plenty of good S/L's.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: LuckyOne on 29-06-2014, 08:06:09
At some point you have to ask yourself: What is the point?

It's human nature, as long as there are shiny numbers displayed on some virtual board somewhere that they can use to show off, they'll do it.

Maybe it's time we finally get rid of it (I like how PR has an emphasis on points - in FH2 we have something similar, yet the people with most kills still end up on the top).

And it seems the stacking problem is there too - just have a look at their forum, it's something that is almost impossible to avoid, as people don't  like to be in the losing team ...
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 29-06-2014, 14:06:16
You can't really ban people for being too good though. Although I will say this: I do not understand this obsession some people seem to have with their k/d. I can understand this in a competetive game like CS, but in FH2? I mean when it comes to the individual player, this mod is horribly unbalanced. I can easily get huge ass k/ds simply by playing artillery for example. At some point you have to ask yourself: What is the point?

For some people it is just important. Don't know why, especialy considering the age of the game. I would go that far to say, that the motivation for people like Major Koenig or Sargcoresi is a different one and not K/D. You notice this when you take a look at their play style. They are always on the furthermost front, where the action is. They just love it to kick their enemies asses and this extremely fast. Some people call that stats whoring, but those two guys are damn valuabe for the team. They go for the flags and open or join squads and they have an overall intelligent play style. The cost of their play style is that they die often. The difference is that those guys kill much faster than other people and people call it going for K/D. I noticed this also during last campaign battle when Mike and Tutvys stopped axis tankers with their PIATs. That's not statswhoring. It is just being good at the game.

If you want to know who is really playing for K/D then better take a look at who is playing commander often or arty and people who you will never find capping a flag.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: jan_kurator on 29-06-2014, 15:06:52
If you want to know who is really playing for K/D then better take a look at who is playing commander often or arty...
Implying those two are not extremely important for the team.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Damaso on 29-06-2014, 15:06:02
Keep wasting your time bothering about eachother's gameplay - judge the noobish of the new players, the bad moves of the squadleaders, and the hacking of the professionals.

What do you prupose then? to make an "dictatorialshipment" in order to control everyone's playstile?

Maybe you just need to control yourself, and actually shut up sometimes. Remember: every insult you make, its a new door you open for a new player to easily leave.

If its a troll then thats another totaly diferent question.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Roughbeak on 29-06-2014, 15:06:52
Keep wasting your time bothering about eachother's gameplay - judge the noobish of the new players, the bad moves of the squadleaders, and the hacking of the professionals.

What do you prupose then? to make an "dictatorialshipment" in order to control everyone's playstile?

Maybe you just need to control yourself, and actually shut up sometimes. Remember: every insult you make, its a new door you open for a new player to easily leave.

If its a troll then thats another totaly diferent question.

Damaso; If you are trying to imply yourself into that post, you are a whole different story on 762. 

To keep it short; I at least, never judge the players gameplay or decisions only when it is most needed or it shows up.
Like 5hitty said: Koenig or Sargcoresi, they do have a knack for finding places to pick up stats.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Damaso on 29-06-2014, 15:06:34
Keep wasting your time bothering about eachother's gameplay - judge the noobish of the new players, the bad moves of the squadleaders, and the hacking of the professionals.

What do you prupose then? to make an "dictatorialshipment" in order to control everyone's playstile?

Maybe you just need to control yourself, and actually shut up sometimes. Remember: every insult you make, its a new door you open for a new player to easily leave.

If its a troll then thats another totaly diferent question.

Damaso; If you are trying to imply yourself into that post, you are a whole different story on 762. 

To keep it short; I at least, never judge the players gameplay or decisions only when it is most needed or it shows up.
Like 5hitty said: Koenig or Sargcoresi, they do have a knack for finding places to pick up stats.

I am the other totaly diferent question, because some of you think im a troll... but we all truly know why was i banned after all.

Still, im just an egocentric kid who just keeps praying for atention after all.. so lets avoid speaking about me on this post. Also, i never saw you criticising seriously other players actually, so you are free from my judgmental teories Roughbeak.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Roughbeak on 29-06-2014, 16:06:59
We never judged you or anyone. Absolutely stop, for thinking we had conspiracies or "ill will" on you - looks like you are making that up yourself.
Perhaps you caught our reason wrong from getting this idea? You were banned for breaking rules many times in a row, and bringing contempt on 762. 

About the 14th time I seriously explained that.

Also, i never saw you criticising seriously other players actually...

I never have and never will.

----

Have a good day. ;)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Damaso on 29-06-2014, 16:06:19
We never judged you or anyone. Absolutely stop, for thinking we had conspiracies or "ill will" on you - looks like you are making that up yourself.
You were banned for breaking rules many times in a row, and bringing contempt on 762.

Tell me what was that lie about spamming 5 tigers (wich i never did, and i dont even have a single idea how to do it) and about the "you were banned because you made many teamkills with knife!" (like you said in the chat once.)

EDIT: aparently, i won the argument once again about this matter wen he edited his post and said "have a good day" just to avoid an argument with me. ok then: have a nice day you too Roughbeak ;) see you on FH2.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Roughbeak on 29-06-2014, 16:06:23
Alright, you said you were "winning", I don't need to win, only giving answers. This is not a political race.

Ok with those 5 Tigers, I was not on the server nor had a screen, however many other players spotted the incident. Do we wish to trust them? It's up to you.

(http://i.imgur.com/hAFeWiu.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/yW6bx66.jpg)

Those are just very few incidents about breaking rules. I mean, really, we already discussed this with multiple threads upon threads excluding the fh2 chat.


Really sorry FH2 Moderators for letting this happen again.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Striktarn on 29-06-2014, 16:06:57
..so why not remove that K/D stat?

This, and further increase points for teamplay activities such as capping flags and repairing vehicles. Also, the TK-punishment is sometimes inaccurate, e.g. when someone bails the vehicle you're driving and dies. That's not a TK. One way to deal with this is to always ask the one who died if said person wants to forgive the TK. This would also let players forgive TKs done by stepping on friendly S-mines. When I accidently do this I tend to say 'sorry' because it was due to my inattention.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 29-06-2014, 16:06:11
That's ok Roughbeak, it ends there.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 29-06-2014, 17:06:36
Damaso, if I hear one more passive aggressive thread derailing quip from you, I will perma ban you.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 29-06-2014, 19:06:45
If you want to know who is really playing for K/D then better take a look at who is playing commander often or arty...
Implying those two are not extremely important for the team.

I did not say they are not important. That's your interpretation. What I can tell you for sure is that I rather have Major Koenig or Sarcgcoresi capping flags instead of a statswhore blasting arty shell after arty shell. I consider arty less important than infantry, but that is something different than what you suggested. Respawn times in FH2 are so short that arty is not effective enough compared to the effectiveness of a good working infantry. Infantry is the backbone of every army and that's not any different in FH2.



Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: brcd. on 29-06-2014, 20:06:49
As a squad leader I actually appreciate it alot when I can get some decent arty support for my squad to be able to advance. The big problem with most of the people on arty is that they prefer spots with more "kills" rather than strategical spots. So in essence, arty never falls where you really need it most. :-\

By the way, I'm a "veteran" player but I am new to this forum and this is my first post. So in that case: Hi everybody!  ;D
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: PanzerKnacker on 29-06-2014, 21:06:16
Ahoy and welcome!

 Just a quick reply on the arty subject: I usually wait for some half a minute to see if there's aynthing going on with a certain spot. If that spot dragged me away from another one where an entire squad was ripe for taking, I'll go back to the first one.

 Unfortunately, the game doesn't tell you immediately why is something spotted, i.e. what the spotter wanted you to see.  Many a time the empty field is just a location where the enemy tank used to be.

So anyhow, I would suggest you type a short "shoot here we need support to advance", since the view of the target is too narrow to see what is going on there on a bigger scale. Or communicate directly with the gunner, it sure helps if he is in your squad so he can effectively support you. Which is what I'll try to do more often, join a squad while manning artillery.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: LuckyOne on 29-06-2014, 21:06:27
I did not say they are not important. That's your interpretation. What I can tell you for sure is that I rather have Major Koenig or Sarcgcoresi capping flags instead of a statswhore blasting arty shell after arty shell. I consider arty less important than infantry, but that is something different than what you suggested. Respawn times in FH2 are so short that arty is not effective enough compared to the effectiveness of a good working infantry. Infantry is the backbone of every army and that's not any different in FH2.

Without the "statswhore" (who has a boring job most of the time btw) infantry would never manage to cap a flag on half of the FH2 maps. We can throw insults around, but the fact is that every element of the army in FH2 is important for success.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: PanzerKnacker on 29-06-2014, 22:06:59
I wouldn't call myself a statwhore, but if I see an empty howitzer when the bulk of my team is attacking, say, Church on Vossenack, I'll get on it and try to help. Sure I hate it when the arty player on the opposite team just denies access to a bottleneck to our team and there's no way to kill him but that's a part of the game I can live with.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Gotkai on 29-06-2014, 22:06:52
I can't remember one flag, where  artillery is necessary. So
For some flags it is useful, but far from necessary.
In many cases artillery is even far from useful, in cases when the whole squad including SL is teamkilled with 1 single artillery shell.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: LuckyOne on 29-06-2014, 23:06:03
I can't remember one flag, where  artillery is necessary. So
For some flags it is useful, but far from necessary.
In many cases artillery is even far from useful, in cases when the whole squad including SL is teamkilled with 1 single artillery shell.

Any flag on pretty much every NA map. A round without artillery on NA is a total waste, and it's the reason why everyone "hates" the NA maps. Because without artillery, you're not getting anywhere there...

Sidi Rezegh is a classic example. Without securing a necessary amount of artillery (the Blockhouse) it's almost impossible to push the Germans off the Airfield, if they know what they're doing. Almost the same situation when the tables turn, although the Germans do have an advantage of not being easily blown to bits by long 88s on their approach.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Wulfburk on 30-06-2014, 09:06:12
Quote
By the way, I'm a "veteran" player but I am new to this forum and this is my first post. So in that case: Hi everybody!  ;D

Hey man  :D


Anyway, i think that no matter how much "PR" is made and how much the community "lightens its mood up", still our numbers will probably go periodically down, specially when those indie WW2 games be released. Honestly, the best way to keep it going as much times as possible, is mod updates IMO, new maps, and the eastern front....
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Leopardi on 30-06-2014, 13:06:29
Quote
By the way, I'm a "veteran" player but I am new to this forum and this is my first post. So in that case: Hi everybody!  ;D

Hey man  :D


Anyway, i think that no matter how much "PR" is made and how much the community "lightens its mood up", still our numbers will probably go periodically down, specially when those indie WW2 games be released. Honestly, the best way to keep it going as much times as possible, is mod updates IMO, new maps, and the eastern front....
Of course the aging BF2 engine doesn't have the slightest hope of making through another decade, but all promising indie WW2 games are still years away... if CoH eastern front mod popularity is anything to go by, FH2 will receive a good long term boost to playerbase through EF release.

And those games will be more about small scale clashes with couple of ground vehicles, they won't be even close to a full scale BF experience.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 01-07-2014, 04:07:09
I can't remember one flag, where  artillery is necessary. So
For some flags it is useful, but far from necessary.
In many cases artillery is even far from useful, in cases when the whole squad including SL is teamkilled with 1 single artillery shell.

Any flag on pretty much every NA map. A round without artillery on NA is a total waste, and it's the reason why everyone "hates" the NA maps. Because without artillery, you're not getting anywhere there...

Sidi Rezegh is a classic example. Without securing a necessary amount of artillery (the Blockhouse) it's almost impossible to push the Germans off the Airfield, if they know what they're doing. Almost the same situation when the tables turn, although the Germans do have an advantage of not being easily blown to bits by long 88s on their approach.

You are mixing things up . There is a difference between arty beeing necessary or being helpful. Right, on Sidi Rezegh it is good for taking out the 88's to help the advance, but in FH2 arty has only an assisting/supportive role and not the impact that infantry has. There are only a few examples where the addition or removal of arty had/has a big impact. There are maybe three maps (Siege of Tobruk, Brest and Sidi Rezegh) where arty can play a critical role. All other 37 maps (including meatgrinders like Omaha) are won by infantry capping flags. Now put that into relation and you know what Gotkai and I are talking about. Infantry comes first, then tanks and after that airplanes/arty and the commander is on the same level of uselessness as the medic kit. Just look how far you will get on Gazala without infantry, though this map is especialy tank and airplane dominated.

Funny thing is that all this stuff applies in the real world aswell except the commander and the medic. You won't capture an area just with arty shelling, tanks, planes or airforce bombing it. The infatry is the backbone of every army.

I for one take the arty when I want to drink a beer, but not to have an intense game. It is nice that it is there, but this game lives from other aspects. The thing is that you can't take out any of the combat vehicles including arty etc without f*cking up the immersion and a strong selling point of FH2. It is all a piece of the puzzle and the big picture that makes FH2 unique.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 01-07-2014, 04:07:40
On the other hand, in real life artillery caused up to 75% of all combat casualties ;)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Gotkai on 01-07-2014, 07:07:35
But the respawn time was much longer.
It's still a game. With different mechanisms.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Erwin on 01-07-2014, 09:07:56
On the other hand, in real life artillery caused up to 75% of all combat casualties ;)

On the other hand, in real life artillery usually being used by Field Teams which consisted of several hundred guns.

I remember having a big howitzer piece in FH1 Nordwind, 4 of them bonded together and used by one person. It was really useful and I think that is how arty guns should be.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 01-07-2014, 13:07:38
On the other hand, in real life artillery caused up to 75% of all combat casualties ;)

It was not artillery shelling the beaches that took Omaha. It was the infantry. You can kill as many guys as you want with artillery. Won't help much if you don't send troops.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Slayer on 01-07-2014, 13:07:09
On the other hand, in real life artillery caused up to 75% of all combat casualties ;)

It was not artillery shelling the beaches that took Omaha. It was the infantry. You can kill as many guys as you want with artillery. Won't help much if you don't send troops.
But without the artillery shelling, the infantry might not have been able to take the beach.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: PanzerKnacker on 01-07-2014, 16:07:26
On the other hand, in real life artillery caused up to 75% of all combat casualties ;)

It was not artillery shelling the beaches that took Omaha. It was the infantry. You can kill as many guys as you want with artillery. Won't help much if you don't send troops.
But without the artillery shelling, the infantry might not have been able to take the beach.

Guys, guys. The Air force wins this one
(http://cdn.damninteresting.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/nagasaki.jpg)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: djinn on 02-07-2014, 00:07:26
Skipped the 8 page to answer the question directly.
Good suggestion by the OP. A finer balance of maps.

100 players is actually an interesting count cuz unlike 120, we can get more people to join other servers.

So it's about what the other servers do, right? Obviously 100 player server is an attractive sell.

So how to get the other servers interesting:
1. Interesting maps. Now it may seem up for debate but it isnt. On some maps, the server count drops, on others it rises -- FAST.

People like Normandy. Go figure. A mix of a fun African map here and there may help. In fun I mean, a player doesn't have to drive or walk long distances only to die.

So further break  down:

- Maps that dont require much walking and/ or driving to a base where a death means respawning far away.
- Maps that use semi-auto rifles and more tanks with HE shells is fun compared to very early maps where everyone fires bolt action rifles, the best mg is the bren, and tanks are small and ugly.

- Maps with planes and artillery. You may not know this, but while many may like running and shooting, where the defenders get frustrating enough, others are perfectly happy to play auxiliary roles.
- Maps with a mix of everything but with evenly spaced out flags that don't frustrate players by having them get bottlenecked or having to hit the same flag to get it. If they have wiggle room to play and get to their objective, its nice.


It basically boils down to game mechanics. Players like maps that don't punish them too severely and reward them readily but for things like skill and achievement over simple kills. A few might like just kills, but most are put off by it since many people aren't skilled, and enjoy the cooperative solution.

So that's something to consider when putting maps on a small server to draw people in.
Grab em hard and keep em tight. THEN once you have the devoted following, you can sneak in your personal favorites. Till then, play it safe.

2. If a game ends, i.e. the enemy is pushed to their last base, switch maps. Trust me, the best time to empty your server is once the maps is done, and people have to wait for either the numbers to drain or the losing side to try again and again to recap a flag. Just put them out their misery and people will remain.

You can't go wrong with maps like Ramelle, Cobra, Brest, Tunis, Hurtgen (But apply rule number 2 here), St. Vith, Meurse River, Fall of Trobruk and of course Omaha.

Other good maps, Port en Bessin, Point du Hoc, Eppeldorf. Although obviously the risk is increasing compared to the last set. 

Risky maps include,
Sidi Rezegh, El Alamein, Bastogne, Hyacinth, Gazala... Not bad maps, you understand. Just maps that are likely to have people leave more than join because they are present. See a trend?

CQB For the win!

But actually, Villers Bocage will count as a risky map. It's just a very frustrating map since death is usually hidden and people do trek a bit, despite the catastrophic environment.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: ksl94 on 02-07-2014, 01:07:50
I love the early war maps. The bigger, the merrier is my motto when it comes to size. Everything has it's time and place. Currently some maps should be bigger, e. g. Operation Goodwood - it currently feels like a bloody playground  :-\ . To each his own, I guess.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Slayer on 02-07-2014, 01:07:23
- Maps that dont require much walking and/ or driving to a base where a death means respawning far away.
- Maps that use semi-auto rifles and more tanks with HE shells is fun compared to very early maps where everyone fires bolt action rifles, the best mg is the bren, and tanks are small and ugly.

- Maps with planes and artillery. You may not know this, but while many may like running and shooting, where the defenders get frustrating enough, others are perfectly happy to play auxiliary roles.
- Maps with a mix of everything but with evenly spaced out flags that don't frustrate players by having them get bottlenecked or having to hit the same flag to get it. If they have wiggle room to play and get to their objective, its nice.
Blah, blah, totally taste dependent. I really love the Africa maps, I love it that I have to be careful not to get shot in order not to have to drive a distance again. I don't like the "fast satisfaction" thing which is apparently on maps you describe as "good" for servers and I laugh at the suggestion that Cobra is a great map to keep players - as it is 120% unbalanced atm.

Players like maps that don't punish them too severely and reward them readily but for things like skill and achievement over simple kills.
With the risk of sounding like an elitist FH2 player, I say that I have a suggestion for players like this: learn or go play CoD. It's not like anyone was born with FH2 skills.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: djinn on 02-07-2014, 01:07:44
For YOU maybe. We're not talking about what works for purists. i agree on all your points.
I'm talking about OTHER servers dointhings to have them get populated. It's about what majority would want.

So yeah, NO idea why you're arguing this.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Kelmola on 02-07-2014, 17:07:55
You can't go wrong with maps like[/b] Ramelle, Brest, Tunis...

See a trend? CQB For the win!
What. The above mentioned together with Chiara's boobs Giarabub devolve at 80+ players into "who spams most nades in the only bottleneck during his 5-second lifespan" (OK, Ramelle does not have much grenades so its who spams the most HE shells/zooks/Molotovs into the said bottleneck). Sure it's CQB and sure it's fun once in a while, but not really what FH2 is about.

That said, I agree that Sidi Rezegh is a risk because it really needs a good British team to make the game interesting. At worst, there's not even a British commander to fire that artillery to help suppressing the 88's. All too often the entire round is like 60 minutes of waiting that the tommies come in small trickles to be eaten by the 88's, or 60 minutes of run-die-respawn because your team isn't cooperating, depending on your side.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Slayer on 03-07-2014, 22:07:27
OK, djinn, so you are arguing that some servers should adopt your ideas and then they will get populated too? Nice idea, but I think it will remain a dream unless you start a new server yourself and try it out. Maybe even then, btw.

I sincerely think that FH2 should be happy with it's playerbase, propagate the mod properly via the known channels (YT, Moddb, etc.) and try to appeal to people who love WWII more than anything. That's it. I don't think it is realistic to aim for a playerbase 10 times the size it is now, because the game (BF2) is simpy too old.

Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: LuckyOne on 04-07-2014, 00:07:54
I think the player base in EU is healthy enough. You can find a match in the afternoon/evening and on the weekends even in the morning.

It's the Americans and the poor forgotten Aussies that don't get a chance to play...
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Airshark79 on 04-07-2014, 16:07:53
Hello everyone, 1942,2,2142,PR, BC series and BF3(ugh.) player and-2.5 year-FH2 player with some modding experience here. (A.k.a. yiyeyigit, yener79 and some I don't even remember)

I am glad that player base is an actively discussed topic whereas 2142 died off without a single bit of thought from anyone I've seen in the past. I am an EAUK veteran and a 2142 purist who happens to believe it to be the ultimate BF game ever made. Seeing how 2142 turned out despite its quality, I think FH2 dying off is not off the table, and I think some measures need to be taken, especially to get a second server other than 762 full at least at the weekends.

What can we do?

It is late, but some marketing is needed. There are many people who happen to own BF2 but still haven't realised how great the FH2 experience is. And this is in some way due to it's lack of presence in youtube and others. We need to get satisfactory, raw and uncut footages of people who plays the game and has fun, maybe some who puts PR videos on youtube.

Second, is some push from behind. If there are no players, nobody will bother to join a server. So what we need is some gaming nights on one of the marginal public servers out there, at least with 10 people so that others may decide to come as well.

Third for later, is to focus on cqb. Crete 64 with 10 people is not fun, and frankly a waste of time. I am not saying it needs to be refined for grenade use or generally, but 12-16 player maps need more focus for the future, so that servers may find and keep players before switching to bigger ones.

I am keeping my thoughts a little blank so there is room for discussion.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Ronson on 04-07-2014, 18:07:44
Starting a new server when the playerbase isn't big enough to support it has the potential to be a disaster and drive away more players than it brings in.

There was a big problem for a while when 762 was running both a 128 and 64 server. It all came down to which server got populated first in the day (starting Euro afternoon time). If the 128 server got going first it was fine, and you often got 100+ people playing FH2. If the 64 server got going first then you got 64 playing. And the rest of the people? They disappeared off to do something else more fun, because most people don't want to dick about on a lightly populated server on the slim chance it will fill up. Or sometimes you'd end up with 30-40 players on each server which made for a crap game for everybody. This was solved when 762 switched to running two big servers - there's now 100 slots available on each, and it doesn't matter which starts first so there's no problem, as it's not often more than 100 want to play at once.

Personally I think the 762 guys do a superb job as hosts and admins, so IMO setting up another yet another 64 server would be at best a waste of time (because nobody plays on it) and at worst harmful (because it splits the small playerbase, so both servers end up half-full).

What might be cool, though, is a dedicated *small* server which runs the CQB 16/32 player maps we don't often get to play, and strictly limits playercount. It could be available for people wanting a real alternative to the big tactical games, and the go-to server for people wanting a quick blast at times when the 100 player server is full (because realistically there's no chance of getting two 100 servers rocking except around Christmas or patch release time). It ought to be strictly limited to 16 or 32 slots though, to avoid that problem of splitting the playerbase and to make it genuinely different from all the empty 64 servers that are still around.

As Airshark says some of the small maps could be refined too, as the 16/32 layers have sometimes (not always!) been an after-thought since the focus is on 64. The smaller playerbases in NA and Oz/NZ have struggled because of this. The new updater makes it easier for quick fixes and experiments with the small maps so maybe a mini CQB server could end up with loads of variety and be a welcome occasional alternative to the 'proper' big server, as well as a draw for new players across the world.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 04-07-2014, 18:07:50
Starting a new server when the playerbase isn't big enough to support it has the potential to be a disaster and drive away more players than it brings in.

762 are not the only server hosters for FH2. I am not sure whether people are aware of this? Problem is that only WaW and FlH promote and manage their servers as 762 does, though for different audiences and not necessarily for public play. Just starting a new server will do nothing but lead to an additional empty server in the browser.

Tbh, some competition would be good as it could raise the quality of server hosting (not saying that we don't allready strife for it). But who should be doing it?
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Kalkalash on 04-07-2014, 19:07:54
Third for later, is to focus on cqb. Crete 64 with 10 people is not fun, and frankly a waste of time. I am not saying it needs to be refined for grenade use or generally, but 12-16 player maps need more focus for the future, so that servers may find and keep players before switching to bigger ones.
Doesn't 762 have a script that changes map size automatically depending on the amount of players? Of course, you still have to wait for the current round to end which can be painful with only a few players.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Norman Rockwell on 05-07-2014, 00:07:08
We play the hell out of the small maps every Thursday night (and sometimes Saturday nights) (Eastern Standard Time - US) on the WaW server...
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: djinn on 05-07-2014, 01:07:25
OK, djinn, so you are arguing that some servers should adopt your ideas and then they will get populated too? Nice idea, but I think it will remain a dream unless you start a new server yourself and try it out. Maybe even then, btw.

I sincerely think that FH2 should be happy with it's playerbase, propagate the mod properly via the known channels (YT, Moddb, etc.) and try to appeal to people who love WWII more than anything. That's it. I don't think it is realistic to aim for a playerbase 10 times the size it is now, because the game (BF2) is simpy too old.

The system was proposed by the OP
i'm simply suggesting how it could work.

I see no reason why we should be contented with just one server honestly.
We did perfectly find when both 762 servers were running and HSLaN was still going.

It doesn't dillite the community. If anything it allows the devs to have more feedback to polish the mod and reason to keep developing the mod.

It also helps with recruiting more devs.

But beyond that, I think it just helps to have players from across the world able to find an active seever near them any time they wish to play.



The elitism that the mod being smaller ensures the roght caliber of people come in just doesnt hold up to scrutiny. If the mod has solid game mechanics, and I think it does, then those, NOT the player caliber will keep it being played the way it ought and actually give players a fresh experience each time.

Using the standard channels is all well and good, but if we could judt do that to grow numbers, we would alreafy have won't we. It helpe to expand, not stagnate IMO.

I feel this mod is beautiful and the gameplay is amazing, and I would honestly wish more people got to experience it
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Mudzin on 05-07-2014, 02:07:37
The problem is that hslan server was closed due to its emptiness...
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Slayer on 05-07-2014, 02:07:50
We did perfectly find when both 762 servers were running and HSLaN was still going.
Yeah, that was like two-three years ago when the playerbase was bigger still. People move on, get a life, etc. and then stop playing or play less than before. I have a kid now (I didn't two years ago) and I can assure you that it makes you play FH2 less. Does that say anything about the mod? No. Can more propaganda help me to play more FH2? No.

"My generation" was excited for BF2, but the generations after simply aren't because they grow mup with different games. BF4, if BF at all.

Using the standard channels is all well and good, but if we could judt do that to grow numbers, we would alreafy have won't we.
No. There is a lot going on nowadays. Yes, there has been a lull, but here is FB, Twitter, Moddb, YT, etc. now and they are all being used and they all have a responsible dev or beta tester to look after. [/quote]

I feel this mod is beautiful and the gameplay is amazing, and I would honestly wish more people got to experience it
I agree, but I think that, if we are looking for new players, we should look for older guys, in their late 20s and 30s (and older). New kids who will like this mod are rare at best.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: ksl94 on 05-07-2014, 03:07:12
I agree with you, Slayer. We should target an older and especially more professional audience. I was not a gaming person at all until I discovered FH2. To this day, FH2 is the only game I am playing regularly, along with the occasional RO2 and ARMA II.. Re-enactors, history graduates and all kinds of people who are interested in World War II. should be sought after. They, just like me, will play FH2 literally for the rest of their lives.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 05-07-2014, 11:07:31
1st we need to keep the community we have right now.

 762 is carrying the FH2 banner by themselves & i salute them, but

 The 100 player code is buggy. The server crashes CONSTANTLY.

 Not to mention the mysterious CTD & whatever else goes on (i wont mention names here)

 The player base seems to be grouped as follows:

80% - European
10% - British
5% - American
5% - other

 The answer lies in Europe due to pings. I have fought Sargcorsi & Koenig for years with 100+ ping higher than them all for the love of this game.......but new players?

 This IS an old game. Even PR has fallen off in numbers & their community is split between super elite players on 1 server HOG (assholes) & some weird regular player servers called Candy Van (i dont get the joke)

 
 Im a fan of Normandy like everyone else. They are fun. Lots to do & they are noob friendly.

 Compared this to the excruciatingly boring African maps (El Alamein-Seige Of Tobruk-Gazala-Alam Halfa)
which requires a new player to hop in a tank and take on Irishreloaded or walk forever  & then throw in a server crash every 2-3 hours.

 762 should go back to (2) 64 players servers

(1) Western Front Only
(2) North African Front Only

 Throw in an occasional mappack. See which one stay more populated.



Im sure im pissing in the wind, but this is the truth like it or not.

 :-*
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: LuckyOne on 05-07-2014, 11:07:10
^ Not the truth. If they took your suggestion the Africa only server would be empty most of the time, and the 64p one would be full all the time. And the other 50 players would leave the game (forever) because they wouldn't have anywhere to play.

It's fine as it is. What 762 could do is make the other servers run a more variety of maps, for example one with custom maps thrown into the mix and one that plays smaller maps only, perhaps limited to 40-ish slots.

The truth is, 762 both killed FH2 and kept it alive. It killed FH2 by pushing out every other server because it hogged all the players and the admins that wanted to do the job. And it kept it alive by doing a good job on admining their server. They do listen to the players and are active, even if there are occasional issues and I don't agree with many of their decisions.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 05-07-2014, 13:07:59
^ Not the truth. If they took your suggestion the Africa only server would be empty most of the time, and the 64p one would be full all the time. And the other 50 players would leave the game (forever) because they wouldn't have anywhere to play.

 Your words, therein lies the answer.

 Ty LuckyOne
 ;)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Airshark79 on 05-07-2014, 14:07:37
Further thoughts:

What I think we could actually do is to make sure that people who dislike FH2 for reasons don't have to suffer through their least favorite maps and some which are bound to disappoint, which vary between people, for example I love cobra and hate omaha, whereas others may hate cobra due to balance and love omaha for the landing action. So we can organise servers for categorization.

Here is a mockup of my personal categories:

(RO) Could be ruled out of the streamlined map rotation( The maps that mostly turn out to be not so fun)


----Bardia(RO),Keren,Giarabub,Sfakia,Olympus,FoTobruk,Hyacinth(RO),Tunis(RO),Crete(RO)----
----Sidi Rzeigh(RO),Gazala,Tobruk,El Alamein,Supercharge,Mersa Matruh(RO),Alam Halfa,Sidi bou zid,Mareth Line,Olympus----
----PdH,Gold Beach,Omaha Beach----
----Port en Bessin, Purple Heart Lane, Anctoville, PdH, Gold Beach, Omaha Beach, Lebisey, Ramelle Neuville, Falaise(RO due to mortars), Brest, Hurtgen, St Vith---
----Villers Bocage,St Lo,Goodwood,Cobra,Totalize,Vossenack,Luttich(RO),Bastogne,Meuse river----
----Eppeldorf,Vossenack,Bastogne,Meuse river,St Vith----


Along with these full mix of 762 will also keep going, because it is a working soultion.These six mixes' maps could be further decreased down to no-disappoint mixes(people who expect massive maps also need to be not disappointed):(This is really about my personal taste)



----Giarabub,Sfakia,FoTobruk----Africa Small scale inf.

----El Alamein, Supercharge,Sidi Bou zid----Africa Mixed Battles.

----PdH,Gold Beach,Omaha Beach----Invasion mix.

----Port En Bessin,Purple Heart Lane,Anctoville,Ramelle Neuville,Brest,Hurtgen----Best of West infantry mix

----Eppeldorf,Goodwood,Vossenack,Meuse River----West Mixed Battles

----Bocage,Vossenack,Bastogne,Meuse river,St Vith----West Grand Battles


Some of these will surely not work considering the rotation turns back around in Three hours and two el alameins are a bit too much, But like 7/24 Karkand, Suez canal, Gibraltar and metro did infantry focused rotations with as little bore as possible will keep the new players busy without being disappointed in their first run. A great time to initiate this is the time when Eastern front is introduced, because that moment will be a chance for a big public appeal to draw newbies and "the disappointed" back in for another try.

Also fluctuating numbers between servers is ok, but once there is only one option and the rest also being full mix servers, fluctuating numbers is decreased players.

@ ksl94: While the history buffs are a loyal bunch, not all who watched, and spoken fondly of Saving Pvt Ryan were them. Our modern counterparts with more focus on smaller bits of WW2 unjustfully get a hundred times more people than us.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 05-07-2014, 14:07:10
Personally I like the fact that 762 runs all official maps. That being said, I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to do some kind of voting system, also randomized. So people have the choice between two or three maps from the rotation. That way we devs would also get numbers of which maps are requested most and which might need work.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Harmonikater on 05-07-2014, 14:07:39
To the python-cave!
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: LuckyOne on 05-07-2014, 14:07:29
The voting system would be nice. Or at least the admins should run more votes when people start complaining.

And people need to stop bitching "this map is shit. This sucks. I HATE THIS!" and actually PLAY the game. It's not the map that makes the fun, it's the PEOPLE who PLAY the game.

I mean, theoretically you could put people on a 512x512 flat green plain with just grass and STILL have fun (for example having a big knife fight, or line battle or playing virtual tag or whatever)... IF people are up for it...
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Slayer on 05-07-2014, 14:07:30
It's kind of painful for me to see posts disqualifying certain maps because they are "unfriendly" or anything.

Apart from the fact that these maps have been worked on for god knows how long, and then someone comes in and simply says "this map sucks, take it out of rotation", I'm afraid this might lead to a situation which I already experienced at the end of BF1942: one server which ran one map 24/7 and one server which ran only ~5 maps. This was the final blow for BF1942, as players who disliked those maps, or players who liked the variety (one of the strongpoints for FH2 too!) left and never returned.

I sincerely hope that 762, or any other server for that matter, will never be tempted to remove maps from the rotation permanently, just because some people voice their dislike of them.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 05-07-2014, 14:07:47
My opinion on map quality: It varies between players. Some people really enjoy El Alamein or Cobra for the tank action, but can't stand Omaha Beach, even though it is an often requested map in general. That being said, some of the FH2 maps pre 2.3 would not be made this way today. That goes for 2.0 Afrika maps like Operation Supercharge, Mareth Line or Siege of Tobruk, which were made without much experience in BF2 map making, or maps like Villers Bocage or Olympus which were adapted rather hastily from tournament maps. We still update those of course (Gavrant is working on Cobra as we speak), but some of them have basic structural problems that are impossible to fix. Personally I would not be sad to see them played less.
On a related note: Is Crete still out of the rotation? Cause the transport plane steering thing was fixed  in 2.47.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 05-07-2014, 15:07:47
To the python-cave!

 I lol and spat my drink out.

Note:

*I have never seen a server run 32 player maps only
*The answer lies in Europe & must come from there
*762 does have 2 other servers (PR 1.2 & Battleracer2) neither of which has any activity in the last 12+ months
*Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
 ;D



Alas, the solution is not an easy one, but if another server besides 762 were to step forth & read the entirety of this thread for ideas, he would fall asleep drooling before reaching its end.

 :-*
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Mudzin on 05-07-2014, 16:07:26
Well, I think every map should have each smaller version - 16,32. Some of existing smaller maps should be really reworked because they're simply unplayable, like Sidi Rezegh...
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 05-07-2014, 16:07:45
Sidi Rezegh 16p had its spawn points fixed in 2.47.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: gavrant on 05-07-2014, 17:07:48
Personally I like the fact that 762 runs all official maps. That being said, I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to do some kind of voting system, also randomized. So people have the choice between two or three maps from the rotation. That way we devs would also get numbers of which maps are requested most and which might need work.
To the python-cave!
No need of caving, we have a built-in map voting system. It  probably even works on 762 if the guys haven't turned it off.

It supports the following commands typed in the chat (doesn't matter if it's the squad, team, or "all" chat):
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 05-07-2014, 19:07:46
To the python-cave!

 I lol and spat my drink out.

Note:
*762 does have 2 other servers (PR 1.2 & Battleracer2) neither of which has any activity in the last 12+ months
*Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
 ;D

There are two reasons why 762s PR and Battleracer server aren't working.

1st) Battleracer never has been a popular mod. Or did I miss something? We propably had the most active server for it.  ;D
2nd) Majority of our admins are FH2 nerds, so active on those servers. The PR server is not administrated at all. Besides that the FH2 servers have been established for a far longer period of time. We could shift our focus and put alot of effort into promoting our PR server to try to compete with allready established server hosters, but at the end nobody is up for the task nor willed to do it because most of just enjoy another game are not up for those waiting orgies. We would need a good strategy for sure and it is not really what we are looking for. But I would not blame the other hosters for that as nobody is stopping us from getting our asses up and work for it. PR is also more popular in the US as FH2, so competition is a tad harder.

@gavrant: !shownext works, but the other options don't afaik or are disabled. Problems are mentioned allready. On one hand people complain about the instability of the server, on the other hand they want to have more freedom for voting. Changing the server rotation over and over again doesn't make the server any more stable.


Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: gavrant on 05-07-2014, 19:07:47
@gavrant: !shownext works, but the other options don't afaik or are disabled.
Then it's disabled on the servers.

Quote
Problems are mentioned allready. On one hand people complain about the instability of the server, on the other hand they want to have more freedom for voting. Changing the server rotation over and over again doesn't make the server any more stable.
I doubt that map voting will make any server less stable. And I still remember the times when every evening on 762 started with Mt. Olympus... :)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Airshark79 on 05-07-2014, 22:07:34
It's kind of painful for me to see posts disqualifying certain maps because they are "unfriendly" or anything.

Apart from the fact that these maps have been worked on for god knows how long, and then someone comes in and simply says "this map sucks, take it out of rotation", I'm afraid this might lead to a situation which I already experienced at the end of BF1942: one server which ran one map 24/7 and one server which ran only ~5 maps. This was the final blow for BF1942, as players who disliked those maps, or players who liked the variety (one of the strongpoints for FH2 too!) left and never returned.

I sincerely hope that 762, or any other server for that matter, will never be tempted to remove maps from the rotation permanently, just because some people voice their dislike of them.

I feel there is no need to defend bardia and in some ways, Tunis. While maps get a lot of attention from developers, some are simply not suitable for multiplayer with the brutal nature of grenades, capable long range weaponry and such.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Slayer on 05-07-2014, 22:07:38
I feel there is no need to defend bardia and in some ways, Tunis. While maps get a lot of attention from developers, some are simply not suitable for multiplayer with the brutal nature of grenades, capable long range weaponry and such.
What's so bad about them then? On Tunis grenades are limited, and Bardia is balanced quite OK.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: LuckyOne on 05-07-2014, 22:07:37
^ The problem is scale. They were simply made before anyone could have ever dreamed of more than 64 players on the same server. For 64p they work ok, but if you put more people on it just becomes to spammy.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Airshark79 on 06-07-2014, 00:07:12
I feel there is no need to defend bardia and in some ways, Tunis. While maps get a lot of attention from developers, some are simply not suitable for multiplayer with the brutal nature of grenades, capable long range weaponry and such.
What's so bad about them then? On Tunis grenades are limited, and Bardia is balanced quite OK.

Bardia is not "balanced quite ok"
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: jan_kurator on 06-07-2014, 00:07:33
Bardia is not "balanced quite ok"
Yes, it is balanced very well in fact.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 06-07-2014, 00:07:06
According to 762 balance stats it is allied biased.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: djinn on 06-07-2014, 00:07:01
I agree with Jimi on lowering the numbers a bit to see what people do. On a few maps, 100 allows room for maneuver and pause, but often, it's a run-and-gun with little room to think.

Perhaps 85 or 75. I feel the 2nd 762 server will get populated once that's done.

Then we can look tactically at what can be done about other servers
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Airshark79 on 06-07-2014, 01:07:56
Bardia is not "balanced quite ok"
Yes, it is balanced very well in fact.

Even if it is 50-50 it is balanced around baserape. Either italians or Brits
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: hitm4k3r on 06-07-2014, 14:07:14
Bardia is not "balanced quite ok"
Yes, it is balanced very well in fact.

Even if it is 50-50 it is balanced around baserape. Either italians or Brits

I haven't been baseraped on Bardia since 2.46 update on the british side. And baseraping the Italians is the whole point of the map, isn't it?
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 06-07-2014, 15:07:27
 I have come to really love Bardia, especially as Allied.

 I have a solid squad strat that will have my men teabagging your dead corpses & capping a flag within 10 minutes of map start.


 :P
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Airshark79 on 06-07-2014, 18:07:58
Bardia is not "balanced quite ok"
Yes, it is balanced very well in fact.

Even if it is 50-50 it is balanced around baserape. Either italians or Brits

I haven't been baseraped on Bardia since 2.46 update on the british side. And baseraping the Italians is the whole point of the map, isn't it?

Not so much when the baseraped map is Wadi outpost.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 06-07-2014, 22:07:08
How to schedule maps? Let me tell you.

Firstly, always different front after another and never same front again until all have been gone trough. For example western front, NA front, bulge front and then again. Later when we get eastern front then put it into the mix. You never get bored by the scenery and get totally new toys to play with.

Secondly, always different style of map, in similar fashion. First all out vehicle battles (El Alamein), then tight infantry fighting (Purple Heart Lane), then something like Meuse River and followed by Tunis. In this fashion player gets to experience the diversity of Forgotten Hope.

Haven't played FH2 in a long while, been quite busy IRL and I do not have even BF2 installed (still don't get it why it ain't freeware already). By will surely check out Eastern front when it comes out. One of my pet hates always was that servers never exploited the huge diversity FH has to offer. If servers would rotate maps like I suggested at least I'd be more interested.

Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Slayer on 06-07-2014, 23:07:00
^plus, if forced teamswitch is ON, then put an allied attackmap after an allied attackmap, because if you don't, the teams have to do the same job everytime.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: GeoPat on 07-07-2014, 00:07:27
Forum posters from Europe to go on the WaW server and check their ping before assuming that only a European based server is adequate for them to play on.  The new WaW server is located in New York and is very powerful.  Europeans should get better ping on WaW than Americans get on 762.  Personally I don't find the ping difference to be that big of an issue when I play on 762, you just have to adapt your play style a little.

WaW already runs more small maps and wouldn't have a problem with a different map rotation order or map voting.  We need more choices in FH2 and Europe-based is not the only answer.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Airshark79 on 07-07-2014, 00:07:25
Another point to make on being squadleader in FH2.

I love being one. And I love being active. I enjoy using the voip. I love to get people following my orders to win a map.

But I loathe the consequences, and the unrealistic pressure. Once you turn into one you are supposed to be a mobile spawnpoint 50-60 meters away from the enemy flagzone. Because one, just one rifle hit on you can botch the whole plan on your assault to the said base.

It is the same when being a tanker, especially on the normandy maps, where there are bazookas. The TTK is so low that you are forced to stay away, and generally fending yourself off from the satchel runners, because there is no point in protecting the tank you are in from the friendly infantry perspective.

Today I had three rounds which were all not so neat that caused me to ragequit. Also rifle combat for medium pingers(75-100) don't work like a charm, you've got to aim ahead. I always am more comfortable with HE weaponry(tanks), mg's and smg's.

I will be cheking out the waw sever in the game nights.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: BroskiDerpman_AnY on 07-07-2014, 07:07:54
Slight thread necro, I've created a new account on the forums but I've been here for quite a while.

I'm getting into BF2 again and wanted to play my favorite FH2 mod again also.

Was reading the FAQ, and some threads... bear with me it's like 2 AM for me, don't ask me why I suddenly got interested into BF2 again :P Perhaps it was just thoughts about my old ragdoll tweaking and my obssesion back then with ragdolls.

(I have been absorbed into Total War for quite a while and I've epically failed at some MP tournaments... XD)

So I read about the GameSpy stuff etc, just got a question or two to ask.

I read around the Project Reality forums and they mention how they fixed the GameSpy issue and FH2 also shares this new stuff. So does that mean when one installs the mod they create an mp profile or whatever it was in BF2 (Can't remember anymore, it's been a while) I can hop on?

If not what do I need to do so I can play FH2 MP?

Apologies if this has been answered, I might have some more questions later too.

First off though I will re read some of the threads ala FAQ threads.

Cheers.

Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Airshark79 on 07-07-2014, 08:07:33
So I read about the GameSpy stuff etc, just got a question or two to ask.

You can download and play like usual, as long as, i think, you have your cd-key.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: djinn on 07-07-2014, 13:07:14
You know what I honestly like about the game play of Forgotten Hope? It's that the term 'horribly inbalanced' is only partly true, and partly a matter of map strategy.

I still plan to work on a Strategy guide to highlight all this, but a map like Bardia for instance, to me, is no more broken than any other map. Better looking and more 'complete' than some like St. Lo and Cobra, frankly.

But that's as much relief features like foxholes and bocage as it is gameplay.

The fact is certain things are certainties. If a team fires a lot of smoke (And with mortars firing smoke now, we have loads of that), a team can charge almost any position and overwhelm it.

The trick is coordination. Sort of like the Toys in Toy story 2 trying to open an automatic door at a toy shop by randomly jumping up and down in front of it versus doing so at the same time.

It really is about coordination. The map is as easy to beat or hard to beat as a real battlefield that looks like that would have been.
What makes it beatable is more what the team does, and how they use the environment and their equipment better than the enemy.

I find it VERY easy to get any team on any server to march in almost perfect step by simply using text chat. People - follow- orders because besides a few exceptions, people ultimately want to win the match.

It's why without fail, you'd notice the losing team suddenly go hardcore in their attack right before they lose.

It's simply a case of bringing out that aggression and tactical play EARLIER in the battle.

Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: titsmcgee852 on 07-07-2014, 16:07:04
Love the Toy Story reference, I need to watch that movie again! Great post
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Airshark79 on 07-07-2014, 17:07:32
Alright. Lets talk more about the player base. There is also another problem I noticed.

The FH2 youtube channel. Other than two most viewed(around 70k and 40k) most of the videos are a bit obscure in terms of viewership, and that puts the channel, and thus the game into the marginal game/dead mod bandwagon. But, there is also another problem. The channel: ctz99. All early trailers and most viewed videos of the game are there(Starting with 130k and down to 60k with 6 or 7 videos). It, in no way looks official and unworked on for many years. What I am trying to say is that, FH2 youtube needs more structure for a better first glance on the game, maybe a merge if possible.

Also, the gamespy speculation is big. Bigger than what people here think. It got to the top of R/gaming and neogaf and such, and most who hasn't played the game,bf and fh2 in a year has the impression that the mod and the main game are long gone already. Omaha is a big selling point for casuals and see how it turned out, from the trailers and the total amount of multiplayer players at 762 rankings. We, and the devs need to fight that more actively.

Also; the website is growing outdated. Eastern front is a great chance to get the PR machine working. It is a great time to branch out to more modern platforms, such as reddit, and properly focus on displaying the user-created content like videos and Screenshots.

I took many diverse notes for myself but I am going to go procrastinate, maybe play a little bit of fh2. Seems like 36 players are playing right now.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 07-07-2014, 17:07:06
 All good points Airshark!

 The Devs need to ramp up the PR, especially in light of the Gamespy issues & their wonderful FH2 Launcher solution.

 Make a vid, update youtube & promote the hell out of the Eastern Front!

 ;)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: gavrant on 07-07-2014, 18:07:02
Hehe, why it is always "the devs need...", "the server admins must..."? Where is "I will do"? Who will make the Eastern Front real if every dev will be busy promoting it?
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Airshark79 on 07-07-2014, 20:07:17
Hehe, why it is always "the devs need...", "the server admins must..."? Where is "I will do"? Who will make the Eastern Front real if every dev will be busy promoting it?

If you are talking about my thoughts the text was heavily edited from its first state. I can honestly say it was first about "we" but I am no FH2 dev, community player, or anything that is of any importance that forces you to listen to my ideas or change anything other than posting some stuff on two other forums.

Edit: Here are all images I could conjure up from the news thingy feed:

http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/140702/il2.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/140702/cockpit.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/140702/berezin.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/140302/fredhouse_v4.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/130612/po2.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/130508/Katyusha.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/130417/suomi.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/130410/LS_26.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/130403/ukko_pekka.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/130310/finnequip.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/130310/tm35nr.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/130124/SU12.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/130124/SU76M.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/130104/t70.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/121216/ferdinand_render.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/121216/stug.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/121216/three.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/121216/t34.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/121216/kv.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/121216/stream.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/121202/MarderIIIM.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/121007/BT7_2.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/120923/maxim.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/120819/m9130nr.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/120812/t_34_m43.jpg
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/120812/t_34_85.jpg

I went too far into the past for some of them. Ease of access for these babies is a nice thing to do(Media? eastern front page as a subpage?). I also saw images of T26's and GAZ in the conspiracy thread. Not putting them up because...? Good idea to treat them as if they are kind of a big deal.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 07-07-2014, 22:07:41
 The community doesnt have the proper credential, only YOU do.

 ;)
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: NTH on 07-07-2014, 23:07:51
The community doesnt have the proper credential, only YOU do.

 ;)
Deliver the Promoting content, Jimi, and the devs will lend their credential to it if it is up to par. It is in making the content to so much time and effort is consumed.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: gavrant on 07-07-2014, 23:07:32
Indeed, you need to be a dev to update the site or Youtube channel (strictly speaking, you don't need to be a dev. For example, Eat Uranium delivers news and he is not a dev officially).
But do you need to be a dev to post something on reddit, to guide new players in game, to use VOIP in game, to raise a new server if you don't like 762 rules, to "deliver the promoting content", like NTH said above, or help people in the "Help / Support" sub-board on this forum, if you know the answer?
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 08-07-2014, 00:07:15
 So, your saying there is no promotion of FH2 unless the community submits content?

 Very well.


 ::)



Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Stubbfan on 08-07-2014, 00:07:11
More like we welcome all ideas for promoting fh2. And if anyone wants to actively help out with this, send me a pm. I'd love more promotion, better websites, youtube channels etc. I like your ideas airshark.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Lada.Rear.Drive on 18-07-2014, 15:07:20
People are obviously downloading and trying this mod but they don't seem to stick around.
Current "activated" accounts: http://www.762-ranking.de/fh2stats/
(http://i.imgur.com/3meiRBx.jpg)
My FH2 torrent stats:
(http://i.imgur.com/mH2OOPh.jpg)

As for the discussion that's been going on. I think we need a real alternative to the 762 server. I'm tempted to try it myself but I just don't have the time right now. By the way how much does it cost to run a proper 100-128 player FH2 server?
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 18-07-2014, 15:07:56
Note that the grand majority of our playerbase (especially in Asia and Eastern Europe) plays FH2 in Single Player and never sees a server from the inside. In fact, there was a bundle of a cracked BF2 1.5 and FH2.46 up on a Russian piracy site a few days after release.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 18-07-2014, 16:07:01
Not just Asians and eastern europeans, but also a lot of western europeans and even americans tend to play a lot of single player. Proof of this are all those single player videos on youtube that people record.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Airshark79 on 18-07-2014, 16:07:47
Can the pirates play on the multiplayer now that GS servers have shut down?

Edit: There are some good details to look at 762-ranking.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Lada.Rear.Drive on 18-07-2014, 16:07:36
Can the pirates play on the multiplayer now that GS servers have shut down?
Don't ask, don't tell. Battlefield 2 is now what you'd call abandonware. It's a multiplayer FPS with no actual multiplayer functionality. If you have the files for Battlefield 2 version 1.5 then you can download and play Forgotten Hope 2 and Project Reality. The new master server will not ask for your cd-key.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Airshark79 on 18-07-2014, 16:07:00
Look on the bright side! FH2 is F2P!
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 18-07-2014, 16:07:29
We do not encourage piracy. However, it is also not our job to take steps to prevent it.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Lada.Rear.Drive on 18-07-2014, 16:07:36
Quote from: Origin.com
Please note:The online multiplayer matchmaking tech for this game has been provided by GameSpy, who has deactivated this service.. Because multiplayer is a major part of the game’s experience, we have decided to no longer sell Battlefield 2 in its current form. For more details, please read EA’s online service updates page.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Airshark79 on 18-07-2014, 16:07:04
Hjaldrgud recently got permabanned from matchmaking though. Had to get a new Cd-key. So there is stil some reason to be cautious.
Title: Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 18-07-2014, 20:07:36
More like we welcome all ideas for promoting fh2. And if anyone wants to actively help out with this, send me a pm. I'd love more promotion, better websites, youtube channels etc. I like your ideas airshark.

Quick Hits:
Warning: Might hurt the guilty!


- Break down the silent communication wall between the community & the mod team, which im happy to say has improved greatly thanks to (Stubfan, Ts4EVER).

- The face of FH2 needs a facelift. Some of your forum moderators need to retire. Replace the condescending, belittling attitudes (You know who you are.) with some fresh enthusiastic blood.

 I'll send u a PM soon Stub.

 ;)