Author Topic: AWARDS  (Read 22273 times)

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #255 on: 21-08-2011, 01:08:59 »
As I have pointed out above, having two award systems with the same awards is useless. Thus their work became useless once the devs released their official award system, since it's the developer's mod and they control the content. They stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that fact, thus they are stubborn.

As you can see, people are playing on their servers and having fun. Me included. So their work isn't useless. You just call it that way. And why have they to acknowladge, that you call their work useless. You call it so. That doesn't mean that you are rigth. The opposite is the case. People are playing on their servers, so their work is usefull for someone - in this case the players, who having fun. This isn't stubborn.

Yes, player are having fun of their servers. However is it because f the work they put into the awards system, or not rather because of teh fact that they run FH2 on it? Them running a server is not sueless, their awards system is.

This could might be the case, but where is the reason for it? Because you say so, nothing more. The awards are a part of their work and not their whole work. So I wouldn't call their work (everything is included) useless and the people stubborn. Isn't this mod not just about having fun? Or did I miss anything?

*facepalm*
Ok let's go through this nice and slow.
Yes this mod is about having fun. The devs design it to be fun. They introduce new features and tweaks to it to make it more fun. For example, they figured it was more fun to have squad leader spawning is more fun in this mod than rally points, so they left it in.
Now, let's say somebody decides rally points are fun after all. "Fair enough" say the devs, make a minimod with rally points. All we ask is that you need Fh2 to launch your minimod and that it is a minimod, separate from the main mod. World at War tournament did just that. They made their minimod with rally points and their extra content and because people like playing in tournaments they didn't mind downloading that minimod and playing it int he tournament separate from the main mod.
The awards system is also part of Fh2s design and the experience the devs intend for their fans/audience/players whatever. What 762 does is the same as introducing rally points or cross hairs server side without proper identification or a minimod. It is basically fucking up what the devs made.
And I don't care if a lot of work went into it or the 762 guys are nice people. There are possibly dozens of nice, hard working people in this country alone and I don't give a shit about most of them. What I do give a shit about, however, is that FH2 players receive the experience intended for them when they download Forgotten Hope 2.4.
This would actually be a nice experiment: Do you think people would bother downloading a minimod to use 762 awards?
« Last Edit: 21-08-2011, 01:08:48 by Ts4EVER »

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #256 on: 21-08-2011, 01:08:49 »
Question about awards: aren't grades gained too fast? There will be inflation in ranks soon.

And also, the name of the current grade would be nice to see in the awards page, e g Pfc, Colonel, Seargent etc. Instead of just grade insignia.

Offline Kelmola

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #257 on: 21-08-2011, 01:08:28 »
During the entire discussion, I have not seen a single argument that would speak in favour of 762's award system. They supposedly "applied" for their award system to be included, however no dev remembers said application nor did they bring it forth here. And even if they did "apply", the devs still have the final call as FH2 is their intellectual property and they are free to do as they see fit. No matter which way you put it, 762 ranking will never be global, and now there is a global ranking system they refuse to take part in.

Sure, the server attracts random players, but then again, any full server attracts random players. So work is lost. Tough. You may have noticed that tournament and fanmaps might have sometimes stopped working because of a mod update and I don't hear them complaining. Once you start modmodding something you're on your own. Riding the 126 horse is just silly. Everyone knows that the project is not the work of 762, or FHT (even though they rented the server for a forthnight), or Flippy (even though he borrowed it from FHT for the GN).

Re the magical turnaround that miraculously coincided with the release of 2.4, I tend to trust ajappat more in this case. Also, intentional teamkills are something extremely rare on other servers.

Oh well, let's hope that 2.41 hotfix with a server "licence" put in place is coming soon.

Offline Rustysteel

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #258 on: 21-08-2011, 01:08:14 »
Still waiting as well for someone form 762 to explain why they haven't changed their server names yet, and I know their active on these boards because I've seen posts from them in this very thread.

[762]RANKED #1 FH2 v2.4 [PURE]

That name is deliberately misleading when seen on the server list. There is nothing in it that indicates you're joining a server that uses its own stat/ranking system. Quite the opposite in fact, it implies you are joining an officially stat tracked server which is just wrong. I appreciate they have a problem losing their ranks and stats and starting over but misleading players to keep your server filled is a low blow.

Offline Dago Red

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #259 on: 21-08-2011, 03:08:36 »
Just looking over the awards very thoroughly for the first time, and noticed there was none for anti-tankers.   That is sorely missing! There's a pistoleer award (which is great) but none for combat prowess killing enemy tanks with infantry tools -- seems an oversight.  It is the hardest task an infantryman can undertake and worthy of recognition. 


(no i'm not talking about using AT guns to destroy tanks, but using bazookas, fausts, mines, satchels, etc).

Offline Moose

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #260 on: 21-08-2011, 06:08:27 »
I agree with Dago Face here

Offline FatJoe

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #261 on: 21-08-2011, 06:08:19 »
actually we do have one, but not in the form of a badge but a ribbon:

Tank Killer Ribbon

Awarded to a soldier for overcoming armoured threats using only infantry anti-tank weapons.

Criteria for award:
  • 10 or more enemy tank, APC, armoured car or transport kills using handheld anti-tank weapons in a round.

http://awards.fh2.ifihada.com/award/2021613/

It'd be fun to see that ribbon pinned on your profile if I'd take look at it in a week from now Dago Red..
Challenge accepted? ;D

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #262 on: 21-08-2011, 12:08:20 »
Still waiting as well for someone form 762 to explain why they haven't changed their server names yet, and I know their active on these boards because I've seen posts from them in this very thread.

[762]RANKED #1 FH2 v2.4 [PURE]

That name is deliberately misleading when seen on the server list. There is nothing in it that indicates you're joining a server that uses its own stat/ranking system. Quite the opposite in fact, it implies you are joining an officially stat tracked server which is just wrong. I appreciate they have a problem losing their ranks and stats and starting over but misleading players to keep your server filled is a low blow.

Thats a point, because you ask in a nice and kindly way and don't insult other people. Maybe someone of the 762 guys can give you a clear answer, because I can't speak for them, nor I am willed to do this. I simply speak for me. Some guys here twisted this point. Although I explained the point about "pure" and "ranked" - the servers had always this terms since I played there also before 2.4. They don't call it "official ranked" or whatever. Maybe you guys, who  have problems with this notification should contact the the guys of Hslan and the other servers to put the term "official ranking" in the server names. If that helps you, ok.

And you have to show me, where this server name is misleading: [762]RANKED #1 FH2 v2.4 [PURE]. Its shows, that there is 762 ranking. #1 shows that is one of two servers and FH 2.4. is the running game. "Pure" shows, that there are only played official maps. Where is this misleading. It simply gives the most important information about the server itself.

And @Ts4ever: You always leave one important point out. 762 is not only about ranking - most people think, that it is that simple, but it isn't.
You only are speaking about the ranking, an important point for you maybe, but not my point. The ranking is part of their project and they seem to be succesful with their whole project. Otherwise there wouln't be any request for their servers or their help - thatswhy their work isn't useless. Do I call the official ranking useless and the devs stubborn in this forum? No. I only said, that it is "next to useless FOR ME" same as the 762 ranking. Ofcourse the work of the devs isn't useless, because we play their game and the stats are part of it. But no one said, that the devs should abandon their ranking system, because there is another one. Something, they created and something that is important for them aswell. You should also look from the outside of the window and not only from the inside. You still can't give me a clear answer about the kind of advertising and speaking about other people in this forum - it is very easy to make a *facepalm* for you, so why is it that hard for you to give me a clear asnwer about, how the work of 762 can be useless nor the guys are stubborn. Because the situation is speaking for them aswell. And don't come with only the ranking system - I explained why you shouldn't.

Btw: Why do you play on 762, if they are stubborn and their work useless. You've played 191 rounds there, last battle on the 11th of august this year, so not far away. This is also a nice aspect of these systems - you can make good spying with them. Now explain it, or what was the reason for the fun on their server. Numbers speak something different, than your points. Or do you want to claim, that every round was shit.
« Last Edit: 21-08-2011, 12:08:12 by 5hitm4k3r »

Offline djinn

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #263 on: 21-08-2011, 12:08:22 »
Given the first post, I vote that we stop discussion about FH2 awards versus 762 and focus on the Official awards ONLY as that is what this thread is about. Can wwe be the bigger men here, because that argument is just getting more and more hostile, less logical and no side will give in... So back OT anyone?

Just to let you know, there are is a award and stat system in place:

It looks like this, congrats by the way Taz  :)





And can be found here:
http://awards.fh2.ifihada.com/players/

Offline Butcher

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #264 on: 21-08-2011, 12:08:46 »
since when is the "pure" in the 762 server names? since 2.4 and the arrival of the real ranking. also the term IS MISLEADING. why dont they add "pure maps" or "official maps" to it? the first thing i think of when i read pure ranking is that this is the official ranking.

it seems to much of a coincidence this "pure" gets added exactly at the time the official ranking system arrives in fh2. the pure is there to mislead the newcomers.
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Offline ajappat

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #265 on: 21-08-2011, 12:08:54 »
Well I'll stop arguing, but I hope Devs don't stop. More action less talk.

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #266 on: 21-08-2011, 13:08:41 »
since when is the "pure" in the 762 server names? since 2.4 and the arrival of the real ranking. also the term IS MISLEADING. why dont they add "pure maps" or "official maps" to it? the first thing i think of when i read pure ranking is that this is the official ranking.

it seems to much of a coincidence this "pure" gets added exactly at the time the official ranking system arrives in fh2. the pure is there to mislead the newcomers.

Why don't hslan add "pure maps". They also have "pure" in their name. This point is senceless, since it should be clear for all of you, who are searching for excuses. Maybe you see there a coincidence, maybe there is idk. For me it is just more information in the server browser. There isn't anything wrong about this term. Guys who are asking for server support at their website aren't asking for official ranking, thay are asking for 762 ranking and what they have to do. They don't try to mislead someone, cause there isn't a reason for that. People are asking for their ranking, if ranking is improtant for them and their servers, or if they are normal players. Why should they try to mislead someone? Because they don't want players to join the other servers? It is equal for them, who plays on the other servers. It is improtant for them, that people play on their server, otherwise they would not pay for them and manage the whole thing. I don't see something evil at this point.
« Last Edit: 21-08-2011, 13:08:24 by 5hitm4k3r »

Offline Thorondor123

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #267 on: 21-08-2011, 13:08:12 »
since when is the "pure" in the 762 server names? since 2.4 and the arrival of the real ranking. also the term IS MISLEADING. why dont they add "pure maps" or "official maps" to it? the first thing i think of when i read pure ranking is that this is the official ranking.

it seems to much of a coincidence this "pure" gets added exactly at the time the official ranking system arrives in fh2. the pure is there to mislead the newcomers.

Why don't hslan add "pure maps". They also have "pure" in their name. This point is senceless, since it should be clear for all of you, who are searching for excuses.
Because the [PURE] tag means that the server is running the mod as the devs intended, pure server settings. It is an official FH2 marking.

The awards should be part of the [PURE] settings, no server that runs stolen version of the stats should be allowed to be pure... or even to have server files should it be my decision.
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Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #268 on: 21-08-2011, 13:08:52 »
since when is the "pure" in the 762 server names? since 2.4 and the arrival of the real ranking. also the term IS MISLEADING. why dont they add "pure maps" or "official maps" to it? the first thing i think of when i read pure ranking is that this is the official ranking.

it seems to much of a coincidence this "pure" gets added exactly at the time the official ranking system arrives in fh2. the pure is there to mislead the newcomers.

Why don't hslan add "pure maps". They also have "pure" in their name. This point is senceless, since it should be clear for all of you, who are searching for excuses.
Because the [PURE] tag means that the server is running the mod as the devs intended, pure server settings. It is an official FH2 marking.

The awards should be part of the [PURE] settings, no server that runs stolen version of the stats should be allowed to be pure... or even to have server files should it be my decision.

Then the pure tag in the server name of hslan is misleading for me? - Because I simply don't know about it? You explained it to me and now I know it, everybody can make it this way. Good to know about the meaning - it will influence me the next time, I join the server. And about to claim something stolen or hacked, for that was given permission is not a valid argument.[citation needed] The ranking system they are running is their work, with parts of work from people who gave permission to use these parts. To say it in a simple way. The whole ranking mechanics and reading the statisitcs are written and created by them. They got permission to use some images[citation needed], nothing more nothing less and they used them. Your whole discussion is about little pictures, wich can be used by the 762 guys, because they got permission to use them[citation needed]. All other things all values created by their own ideas.[citation needed] It is the last time, I explained this point. Everybody, who says something like "they hacked" or "stole" something, is just not in the rigth position to claim something like that.[citation needed] That is simply calumny.

Why do you want citation for everyrthing you marked. I talked to you in this forum and to the guys who are working for 762. So there are two sides of the medal and I simply see the situation this way. Neo wrote the whole 762 system and used these little images, for them he got pemission. Maybe you are rigth about the point, that there were fragments of a ranking system, but the ranking system you are talkning about has nothing to do with this fragments - since they rewrote everything, to make it work better. Everything they are using from other peoples work, are simply images - for that there is a permission.

Finally you can't proof, that they hacked the system or not, same as me, because we aren't into this system and weren't present when it was created. So until this point, you can't proof that they really hacked something, I wouldn't claim something like that "hacked" or "stolen", because I simply don't know.  This is simply calumny. I can only say, what I think about the situation and now for the last time: My general intention was not to argue for any ranking system, since I am not that much interested into any ranking system. I started this discussion just to get a statement, why these guys are stubborn and their work useless. Until now nobody was able to give me a simple answer with enough reasons. If this isn't clear for you now, stop claiming: "they hacked!".
« Last Edit: 21-08-2011, 13:08:34 by 5hitm4k3r »

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: AWARDS
« Reply #269 on: 21-08-2011, 13:08:28 »
I don't care if they are doing other stuff too. I don't care if they are "worse" than other servers or whatever. My only concern is the ranking system. If they would use the official one, I would probably even play on their servers from time to time (unless they are as horrible as everyone says). The awards system is the only issue.