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Off-Topic => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Wilhelm on 18-12-2015, 04:12:03

Title: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Wilhelm on 18-12-2015, 04:12:03
I want to start talking about Star Wars: The Force Awakens, so this thread is for discussion among those who have seen it or do not care about spoilers. 

This will keep the other thread from becoming a no-go zone for those wishing to be free of spoilers.

*** FINAL WARNING: MASSIVE SPOILERS BELOW ***
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Wilhelm on 18-12-2015, 05:12:21
There is a lot that could be talked about, but I will start with the 'revelation' of each character's identity.

I liked how each of the new characters turned out to be something other than what many speculated or was expected from the trailers and pre-release details.

Finn

He is not related to anyone (that we know of) and doesn't even have a real name. The name 'Finn' is created from his Storm Trooper designation: FN - 2187.  He also turns out not to be the force sensitive one in the new cast.

A detail I liked was the comment about Finn's insubordination referring to the type of soldier he is:  The Storm Troopers of the First Order are children recruited from a young age and made into soldiers as opposed to being clones.  This is a nice nod to the Clone Wars, the Storm Troopers of the Empire (depending on what the true canon is), etc. 

I like how there are a mix of origins for what a Storm Trooper can be molded from. In this situation, Finn is branded a 'traitor' by his peers and commanders for defecting, showing that these soldiers have free will, despite being indoctrinated.

Rey


She is not related to anyone (that we know of).  Speculation was that she was going to be the Solo child, but turns out she is the force sensitive one and also a character in the mold of Han Solo...basically, her character is a hybrid of Luke and Han.  I thought her character was the stand out of the film and am perfectly fine with her filling the dual role of Han and Luke.

She is awesome!

Kylo Ren

I had no idea that Kylo was going to be Leia and Han's son!  I thought his character being sort of a reverse Luke Skywalker was pretty interesting.  He is definitely an interesting character....but poor Han!

I personally thought Chewbacca was going to be the one to die in this film...

Old Cast

Han Solo and Chewbacca were great!  I also liked the look of Luke.  Everyone else was fine, too. 


Chemistry:

Harrison Ford as Han Solo was great with everyone, and Boyega and Ridley had great chemistry together!  I liked the humor of the film...overall, it was a much more funny film than dramatic.  The humor was good, but the drama didn't make as much of an impact as it could have.

Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Wulfburk on 18-12-2015, 06:12:34
Rey was freaking awesome. Big fan of her now lol  :) She acted perfectly, and a really interesting character even before she realized about the force and all. Plus she was quite beautiful lol.

VERY Much surprised by Kylo Ren, in a good way. All of the emotional struggle did show off, and the guy acted quite well. Finally a sith who portrayed all the doubts he was supposed to have quite realistically and well.

Han Solo and Chewie, nothing to say it. Ford aced it, like he always did.

Finn was quite cool too.



Honestly... i was really expecting a really bad film.... i didnt like any of the trailers... but... seriously...

SERIOUSLY. Its better than Return of the Jedi, to say nothing of The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones.... (doesnt reaches 3,4,5 in my opinion though).


Best parts: All from Rey... specially the interrogation scene with Kylo. But the battle scenes did feel more realistic and "dirty" than what we got before, so that was a good thing too.

Lame parts: Another super weapon, really?
Finn managing to wound Kylo in the duel... Rey beating him was awesome but believable since he was basically an apprentice as well... and had all the doubts and fears... and kinda a coward maybe... While Rey knew to fight normally too, like she showed back in the junkyard in Jakku.

But Finn wounding Kylo in the shoulder was kinda a push.

The stormtroopers new helmet. Looks bad IMO. (been saying it since i saw it in the trailers)


ANd ah.. thats it.




Most surprising though was seing Yound Odda from the Last Kingdom tv series from BBC being one of the gang leaders coming after Han Solo, lol. (the one with the accent)
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 18-12-2015, 18:12:57
I'm very conflicted.  I really, really wanted to like that film, (I even dressed up for the premiere last night), but I'm not sure that I did.

The good:


The bad:
The ambiguous:


For the moment, I'm giving it a 3/5.  I feel a little let down.  But I'll go see it again and think it over in the meantime.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 18-12-2015, 19:12:48
The movie had everything going for it. Great actors playing interesting characters, locations, themes... they had the keys but refused to use them. Unfortunately the movie ended up being more or less A New Hope with changed characters, their roles and locations, otherwise it was more or less the same. This was the biggest problem of the movie. One could start shooting all sorts of holes into the entire film but that'd be pointless since you can do the exact same with the previous films too, so I wont.

It started so strong but when the heroes get to that forest planet with the obvious Mos Eisley cantina scene, I realised that wait a minute, I've already seen this movie. Started thinking back to previous scenes and noticed all the similarities with ANH. So at first I thought maybe that is just a very weird coincident or I am just imagining things... and then it kept going on the same way as it did, ruining the experience.

It was entertaining, yes. It was amazing looking, sounding and it had everything going for it... but the story recycled from ANH made me salty about it. I'd say it is still worth a movie ticket but it definitely doesnt deserve all the praise that it is getting. It didnt feel like a new chapter in the story due to recycling plot, rather than a massive tribute and fan service flick, nod towards the original trilogy after another. At times it seemed like it didnt offer anything but references towards the old movies so people who crew up with them would approve this movie better. At times it felt very forced. Not hating the movie since it had a lot going for it, but playing it very safe ruined it for me.

Chewie was the best.  I could have watched him kicking ass for two hours. ;D
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Kelmola on 18-12-2015, 22:12:49

Rey


She is not related to anyone (that we know of). 
Either she's a Skywalker or the biggest red herring in recent memory.

EDIT: She can't be a Solo, since the casting call for Rey ("Rachel" if you were part of the spoiler game) did not specify any ethnicity. Having the child of two Caucasians be of any other colour would not fly, but with suitable make-up and suspension of disbelief, black or Asian actress would perhaps pass for a multi-ethnic person, allowing her to be Luke's daughter - her mother would be a small part and could be cast afterwards.

Conclusion: Rey is Luke's daughter. Her mother was also present at the Academy and died there (but Luke buried her to his place of exile). Kylo either thought that Rey was dead, or was not yet evil enough to kill his cousin and spared her. Luke, knowing that Kylo, his new master Snoke, and the nascent First Order would target him next, thought he could best protect Rey by sending her off to a distant desert planet similar to where he grew up (well look what it did to Anakin) where nobody would pay much attention to anybody and which would be under the radar of nearly everyone. Also, Luke may have been driven off the deep end by the loss of his wife along all his students (except his daughter), so decided that if he becomes insane or darksider, his daughter is also better off somewhere else. He also dispatched Lor San Tekka to keep watch over her á la Obi-Wan, and left him the missing part of R2's map "for emergency use only".

Speaking of, how would he know what the map was for unless Luke told him? And how could Leia know to contact Tekka (unless he contacted her). The question is though, what prompted him to do that? Also, how does the First Order know what is going on, is there a traitor inside the Resistance?

But why wouldn't Han and Leia recognize Rey? Well, back then Leia was a politician and they were probably living in the New Republic's capital (Chandrila as per the Aftermath book, or Hosnian Prime as it was as of TFA). Luke obviously had his academy someplace else (since Kylo had to be "sent" there). Probably they didn't see Luke's family that often, so seeing the presumed-dead Rey as a young adult instead of a five-year old would not necessarily ring any bells. Then again, Leia embraces Rey warmly even though they have not supposedly never met, and it is Rey, not Chewie, who sits in Falcon's captain's chair during the flight to Luke's (you would imagine that Han's best friend would inherit it instead of "no one"). Maybe Leia had indeed realized who Rey was, or knew who she was all along since she would have had contact with Tekka? (There was a scene in the leaked shooting schedules where "Han convinces Leia that Rey is worth to be saved" that was cut from the movie, maybe that actually revealed everything but JJ decided to keep the mystery until VIII.) It's not unconceivable that Luke had told Leia of his plan.

BTW, there's no need for a mind wipe, PTSD and having been a kid when All The Bad Things happened is enough to cause Rey to forget her past.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Wulfburk on 18-12-2015, 23:12:42
Ya i think Rey is luke's daughter too. Oh and i personally was very much satisfied when we realized Snoke was a hologram. Cause before it i was like "wtf is this fucking shit... if that guy is really that big, its the most retarded thing ever"

On the political side, this is what appears to have happened, though the film indeed failed to explain any of this. They should have placed at least one paragraph in the intro synopsis about it. But just as A New Hope didnt explain anything of the war too.

Quote
So attempting to sum up what is known and what can be speculated of the Rebellion/Empire -> New Republic/First Order -> Resistance/First Order transition, from canon novel sources as quoted by Wiki.

These are the facts known to us, chronology-wise
1)The New Republic founded shortly after Endor. Among its core principle is a reduction to 10% of their military force once peace with the Empire is achieved.
2)After the Battle of Jakku, one year after Endor the empire cease hostile actions against the Republic.
3)Some relatively short time after that, the Galactic Concordance is signed. It's a peace treaty between Republic and Empire.
4)At some point later, The First Order is born as a successor state to the Empire. It *respects* the Galactic Concordance.
5)The New Republic chancelor refuse to view TFO as a threat.
6)However, elements within the Republic support Leia in founding the resistance against The First Order, which they view as a threat.

These facts are also known to us regarding the state of the Empire around the Endor-Jakku timeframe:

-Several Imperial leaders, want the empire to push into the Unknown regions.
-They appear to believe the "source" of the dark side is located somewhere that way.
-A mysterious Fleet Admiral, believed dead by most imperials, is reorganizing the empire behind the scenes, getting rid of the dead wood and corrupt types.*
-This mysterious fleet admiral appears to be involved with the faction wanting to push into the unknown regions.**

Another known fact: Starkiller base was originally in the Unknown Regions.

Quote
The New Republic was formed after the Battle of Jakku with the signing of the Galactic Concordance. Mon Mothma was elected chancellor (they don't use the term "supreme chancellor" anymore) and they established the New Republic capital on Chandrila, Mon Mothma's homeworld. In the span between Aftermath and TFA, the New Republic has demilitarized to a state significantly smaller than during the Clone Wars, but the Republic fleet is the largest in the galaxy. The current chancellor cares more about trade regulations than the First Order (lel) and, oh yeah, the Republic capital and Senate change planets rather frequently by popular vote. Leia's reputation is tarnished in the Senate, because people think she's kind of crazy, so her "in" is the black woman we see in Maz's castle (correct me if I'm wrong). The Resistance IS a legitimate part of the Republic (begrudgingly), though and is no longer a "rebellion" because the term "rebellion" implies that the rebels are fighting against the established regime. So while the Rebellion of the OT is fighting against the powers-that-be, the Empire, the Resistance is fighting a fringe group on the edges of Wild Space.



So its basically the peace of Amiens in 1802 but with the british supporting a "free french" in between (free french being the Resistance), while both the republic and the New Order go on trying to increase their power when they know this peace is just a interruption for the 2nd war which will be soon..... And which apparently started again when the super weapon destroyed the Republic Capital, which wasnt Coruscant but in the Hosnian system at the time. So i bet in Star Wars 8 we will get a little more on the pitched war, and hopefully no other super weapon but a real pitched land battle Hoth style, but not being the intro to the film, but the climax of it, and taking longer.


Also considering Rakata Prime is back on being cannon, (check the Star Wars The Force Awakens Visual Dictionary galaxy map), it could be a real possibility that  its there where Luke is.

The KOTOR 1 fanboy in me is quite happy  ;D


But he's either there or at Tython.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Wilhelm on 18-12-2015, 23:12:40
Thanks for that backstory, Wulfburk.  Now that part of the story makes sense.

It feels kind of weird that such an important event is merely skimmed over in the movie.  The destruction of the governing body of the Republic is kind of a big deal!  :P

I think the StarKiller Base was a really cool weapon, but wasn't really the focus of the plot for the movie.  Although, I still have questions as to how the weapon actually worked...It was a planet turned into a giant cannon, but could it move around space?  Also, the fact that it consumed an entire star with each shot is kinda absurd! The loss of a system's star would be a cataclysm in and of itself!

I don't think it should have used up an entire star in one go, but over a longer period of time.  Sort of like the Star Forge from KOTOR, but instead of creating vast amounts of materiel, it used the star's energy offensively.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Wulfburk on 19-12-2015, 00:12:58
Ya it could move across space,  as you can see here there is the "Starkiller base Origin Point"

Spoiler
(http://media.comicbook.com/2015/11/star-wars-new-galaxy-map-160952.jpg)


Though im not sure if it was the capital of the Republic that was destroyed.... gotta watch the movie again.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Kelmola on 19-12-2015, 00:12:39
Well, it's never said outright in the film proper. General Huxler does rant in the totally not-Nuremberg Rally about destroying the New Republic, while all we see is a single planet and its moons exploding, so I would assume he is just using a hyperbole while channeling John Sheridan. But starting at the symbolic heart of the enemy, ie. its capital would make the most sense if you want to "destroy" it.

Also, Hosnian Prime was said to be in the film, and of the new planets Jakku, Takodana (Maz's hangout), and D'Qar (Resistance HQ) are already accounted for. Unless the Jedi Academy or the first Jedi Temple are on Hosnian Prime, that was the one that caught the superweapon hit.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Wilhelm on 19-12-2015, 03:12:04
I just looked at the visual dictionary book in the store and it said Hosnian Prime was the current planet acting as Capital of the Republic and headquarters for the Galactic Senate.  That means the central governing body of the Republic was nuked in the movie.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Zoologic on 19-12-2015, 16:12:18
Oh boy, and I thought it was Corruscant lacking some familiar buildings.

I've just seen it today. Thrilled. But I am a fanboy, it is difficult to review this neutrally. But as a fanboy, I tend to be excited withe each revelations. It is made to be "modern" to satisfy more critics IMO. The prequels are too campy compared to this one. So far:

+ Plot from A New Hope and Jedi Academy II, retouched with modern movie success-safe-guarantee rules (good CGI, follow-on camera during intense moments or cool action sequence like dogfights, polished characters, flashback reduction, and more conformance with science)
+ Enhanced audio
+ Old characters stay in characters
+ Battle scenes (Jakku, Jakku space, Takodana, The Starkiller) are awesome and more alive. Finally storm troopers hit a lot of things. It really shows the struggle of each combatants
+ Humours, especially classy stuffs from Han Solo and Finn's
+ Rey is a strong character, I like her. It is very rare for Star Wars movie to be this deep
+ Finn, I can understand him very well. He is a very likeable character
+ The Skywalker - Solo family tree revelations
+ I like it when Kylo Ren is a badass. But he chose to be "Kai-loh", a name that rhymes with typical pet's name
+ Is that Rakata Prime planet from KOTOR 1? From the looks of it, it is pretty striking, especially the valley where Ebon Hawk landed and the temple where Bastilla is captured
+ More flowing light saber combat that still sticks to the Wookiepedia like signature moves (is that Rey using form 6 by repeatedly thrusting her saber?)

- Kylo Ren is Ben Solo and he is a hormonal wimpy teenager with some emotional issues that I can't symphatise with from the on-screen performance. He might be tricky with Han, but I am really curious on his turn to dark side. He is scratched by non-force user and defeated by untrained force user. Snoke is too incompetent to choose a worthy protege
- Snoke - the name, Star Wars are not known to be good in naming characters. But this is new low after Kylo. Ren, Ben, Ken, what else? Zen, Men, Ten, Pen, Hen, Den? When you are lazy three letters is enough, Rey. I can't complain with Finn though, quite a nice story on how he receive that name.
- Snoke - the character, not scheming, dark, villainy enough. But Hux and Kylo's behavious in front of him makes him to be quite menacing
- No climax. The plot is all flat tense throughout the movie
- No remarkable music score. The Episode I have the coolest "Droid Invasion", Episode III has this dramatic music that plays in the end (also when they show Luke in this movie). Episode IV brought us the original Star Wars intro. Episode V introduce us to the epic "Empire's March". The Episode VI gave us that victory "Yub-Nub song" sung by Ewoks. This one has a lot of scenes that requires strong musical atmosphere.
- Silly use of force powers. Hold, choke, push, pull, mind trick, read minds. Also, is Poe force sensitive? Why he can resist it?
- Captain Phasma featuring Brienne of Tarth (Gwendoline Christie) being dumped into garbage compactor, just like her potential
- General Hux doesn't live up to being villainy enough to rival Grand Moff Tarkin, probably because Kylo Ren himself is a wimpy dark side knight whatever that can't give him quite a serious challenge
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Ts4EVER on 19-12-2015, 18:12:47
Calling it now for Episode 8: Poe Dameron: Gay
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 20-12-2015, 04:12:19
 Im disappointed. Not very disappointed.

Its a Disney movie, made for children. Not sure what i was expecting.

 Oh yeah, an original plot. They definitely took no chances on the script & followed a tried and true formula from "A New Hope".

 The evil antagonist is a gay looking buffoon.



ok, thats enough...
 :P
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 21-12-2015, 15:12:15
I think I would have liked this film if it had added anything new to Star Wars.  A New Hope, of course, pretty heavily took from the style of Akira Kurosawa samurai movies, Sergio Leone westerns, and WW2 air battle flicks, to the point where many of the scenes and dialogue are almost exact mirrors of those other films (the trench run, for example, contains much of the exact same dialogue as the Dambusters.

But the only influence on the new one seems to be old Star Wars movies.  So we just get a less stylized and interesting version of a New Hope.  The X-Wing battle at the end was what really disappointed me.  It had nothing on any of the battles in the Original Trilogy. 
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Erwin on 21-12-2015, 15:12:45
Rey is awesome.

BB8 is super cool.

But I hope they do not toss R2 to the side because of it. R2 is the most awesome character of all the series, saving their asses countless times and could be considered as the secret lead character.  ;D (If you look at it closely you'll understand what I mean.)

Bad sides for me is that it has no space combat at all(after Episode III...) we do not even see a bunch of Star Destroyers patrolling etc... That side of the film is too blank tbh. One Star Destroyer with a close up shots did not satisfy me at all.

Rebels still looks like a tribe than rebels.(Episode IV has budget and tech issues I know but this is new, shoot in 2015 and with Disney support.) It has a big budget. So why the hell rebels still doesn't have proper ships? They attack a Death Star planet with 20 X-Wings and greeted by a bunch of Tie Fighters? If this place is a big deal, I would have expected it to be defended better than a kindergarden.

They literally walk into the base, undetected with no guards, nothing. The place feels like it's been guarded by like 20 guards?

JJ again messed up the original feeling of the series by bringing up some stupid shit. In Star Trek he invented a transwarp beaming system which completely messed up the series logic. You can apparently now beam into a moving ship anywhere in the galaxy which has ruined entire Starship concept.

In Star Wars, he does this by stupidly changing hyperdrive concept. Apparently you can now go into hyperdrive from inside a ship or pass a shield with it now.

Seriously, film starts good but ends mediocre. That's what it ruined for me and space travel. Luckily Han Solo performance and Rey(also BB8) saved the film a little for me that's why I give it 6.5/10.

JJ films always have continuity issues and this one has it as well and it doesn't surprise me one bit.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Zoologic on 21-12-2015, 16:12:53
Well, at least it is more watchable than the prequels. I think it should get a rather high mark, and as a fan, I would give it 8/10. I was prepared to be quite dissapointed when they dumped the whole EU materials. But The Force Awakens delivered IMO, despite the typical "Star Wars" burden.

E.g. the rebel is now resistance. Although supported by the Republic, according to Wulfburk's reference, they are more like the Hawkish pro-war activists within the new Republic. Of course, they won't get full fundings from the inter-solar system bureaucratic democracy system.

I rewatched Episode III: Revenge of The Sith last night and it was awful in every aspects.

Nobody pointed out that Obi Wan was such a bitch in this movie that he unnecessarily quipped excessive amount of one-liners that may contribute to Anakin going the Dark Side in addition to his fear of Padme's death.
The dialogue is cheesy and high school drama class at best. I don't understand why Ewan McGregor and Samuel L. Jackson wanted to take part and basically recites campy dialogues behind a massive green screen.
Like CPS pointed out, the light saber duels are much more flamboyant. It is not two super warriors from each opposing factions dueling to death, more like two swordsman dancing in a concerted performance. While beautiful, it is absurd.
There are massive logical incontinuity, like Yoda giving up Palpatine (rendering his confrontation all useless). Obi Wan confronting Anakin without Padme knowing (disregarding the heating arguements between the two that Obi could obviously overhear). Nevermind Jedi's senses. It is sometimes very powerful that it can detect subtle emotional state like confusion and pain from light years away. Yet fails to detect the very powerful Sith Lord nestling at the very same planet as their temple. Can Dark side powers use "Force Cloak Minds"?

While it is "the best out of the prequel" but it is still utterly awful in many aspects. Really, it makes me think that 2000s decade is the shittiest moment in the millenia. Car is shitty, music is shitty, movie is shitty, events are shitty, economy is shittier, 2000 to 2009 is the worst era ever. Remember James Bond movies from that era? Die Another Day? Also, franchise like Jurassic Park almost ended with III in 2001?

In contrast, The Force Awakens gave us more acceptable Star Wars movie by applying that modern movie safety formula that I often hated. Never mind science. StarKiller should have supernova itself when failing to content an abosrbed star, making escape impossible and destroying nearby planets. Also why the massive addition of the absorbed star mass doesn't make it the centre of the new solar system? You can't stop asking these questions.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Tedacious on 25-12-2015, 04:12:54
You guys are insane.

It was amazing. Or at least that is my first impression after watching it once. Can't wait to watch it a second time. Though the impression might very well deteriorate after the initial shock and joy of actually watching a new star wars movie; with recurring characters.

So watching it in a more "sober" state might change my opinion on it. But damn, atm it was absolutely amazing.

Maybe a bit too much fan-service, considering it being an outright copy of A New Hope (Trenchrun? I mean that was a bit too much).


Han solo getting killed did actually shock me a bit. Though not surprising. 5 minutes before I had wondered if they would kill anyone off. Introducing 3 new main characters (Kylo Ren, Rey, Finn) means they would have to kill off some of the remaining cast.

So obvious that Ren was the son of Han and Leia, I mean when the old guy at the start commented on Ren's family to his face, it was so obvious.

I did believe Rey is the daughter of Luke at first. Considering her force powers, her parents missing since she was a kid (just like Luke & Leia), the fact that The Skywalker heirloom-lightsaber called to her, and how R2-D2 awoke just when Rey got close.

Perhaps R2 was there when Rey was abandoned/born? Programmed to recognize her as a skywalker?

But for some reason. I doubt it. Feels somewhat like there is a bit too much focus on family in that case. Though it would make sense for that extra bit of tension between Rey and Ren.

Dang I'm not sure what to think.

I loved it though.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 27-12-2015, 19:12:16
You guys are insane.


Well excuse me for having unreasonably high standards for a Star Wars film.

But actually I saw it again last night, more sober, and I liked it less.

C+ at best, maybe.  J.J. Abrams took no risks, and got no rewards.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Kelmola on 27-12-2015, 23:12:00
Saw it the second time. Still as amazing.

Liked it more actually on the second viewing, now that I could fully pay attention to all the small details and nuances. Yes, they are there. The mystery adds to the attractiveness, not everything is spelled out. The characters are fresh and interesting, it leaves the desire to see more.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Wilhelm on 27-12-2015, 23:12:21
Saw it the second time. Still as amazing.

Liked it more actually on the second viewing, now that I could fully pay attention to all the small details and nuances. Yes, they are there. The mystery adds to the attractiveness, not everything is spelled out. The characters are fresh and interesting, it leaves the desire to see more.

I saw it for the second time last night and I, too, actually liked it more.  They do actually explain a lot of the things that people questioned as being far-fetched or seemed contradictory, but you have to pay close attention to the dialogue or other subtle cues.

I was closely watching the interactions between Rey and Kylo Ren and there is a lot of information being conveyed in their body language and facial expressions.  If you watch closely, Kylo Ren is definitely far more skilled than Rey is, even though he is beaten. He mainly gets bested because of his arrogance, while you can see Rey concentrating and centering herself more.

I came away with an impression of Kylo Ren being much more badass than I thought he was on my first viewing.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Zoologic on 28-12-2015, 06:12:21
I don't see getting shot with a blaster weakens a Dark Force Knight.

But still, Kylo Ren is very weak. He stops a blaster bolt, that is very powerful indeed. But then, he is scarred by a non-force user like Finn. Then, completely force-blocked by an untrained force user like Rey.

I know why Kylo Ren feels weak compared to Vader, but is Luke's other disciples that weak? That Kylo manages to kill them all? In their sleep perhaps? Anyone who read extra SW materials care to explain?
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Kelmola on 28-12-2015, 12:12:23
The massacre is not (yet) explained anywhere else either.

Most likely explanation would be that for anyone not of the Skywalker line, becoming a Jedi is a decades-long process (judging by the prequels where Anakin is stated to have become the youngest Jedi Master ever at around 20, even though other Jedi had been learning the arts since infancy), whereas Skywalker get the hang of it much faster (as apparent by Luke's progress in the four years in-universe between ANH and ROTJ), so BenKylo got a significant headstart on the other students. The massacre still required that Luke was elsewhere (a distraction arranged by Snoke, no doubt), or else he would have wiped the floor with Ben.

Yes, pain may make Dark Side users stronger, but only to a point, not where you take the equivalent of a grenade launcher shot to your guts. And Kylo is still unsure of himself and of his darkness, no matter what he boasts to Snoke - he would not have been able to kill his father without Han's unwitting help. Also, Kylo never was fully trained, sure he can intimidate non-Force users, but he's far, far from being a fully learned Jedi or Sith. Probably he has not learned much (if at all) since killing the Academy, and lightsabre-armed opponents are not exactly common in the galaxy far far away's present ("an elegant weapon of a more civilized age"). He seems also very immature for his age (intended to be about 30), the way how he behaves and having all these temper tantrums and wrecking things.

It is still heavily implied though that Rey did have prior training, and/or is either Kylo's sister or (most likely) cousin. Though, if she did not have training, that would explain the title of the film, that the Force is literally awakening and has selected her as the new "Chosen One".

Also, on second viewing, the moment Kylo is told that "a girl" helped BB-8 escape, his reaction clearly indicates that he knows or suspects who she is, and in the interrogation scene clearly behaves as if he knew her (though she seems to have forgotten him). Now, if these were the prequels as written and directed by Lucas, this could be just another unintended accident (cf. the hamfisted scene where Padmé questions Anakin about Jedi code, and Anakin's explanation, acted and written as if he's bending the rules to suit him, is actually the official Jedi policy as per Lucas's interview afterwards), but I don't think so this time.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 28-12-2015, 12:12:28
Midi-chlorians activate!
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Pappa_bear on 28-12-2015, 14:12:34
Could Han Solo be alive? They dumped Phasma (female high ranked stormtrooper) in a trash shaft. Perhaps Solo fell into this shaft aswell, after he was stabbed and fell into oblivion. Trash gets dumped into space, so....... I just hope he is still alive 8)
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 28-12-2015, 15:12:56
Could Han Solo be alive? They dumped Phasma (female high ranked stormtrooper) in a trash shaft. Perhaps Solo fell into this shaft aswell, after he was stabbed and fell into oblivion. Trash gets dumped into space, so....... I just hope he is still alive 8)
He got run through with a lightsaber and then fell into a bottomless pit, I admire your stunningly blind optimism.   Also, since he was clearly Ben Kenobi, and because that movie was literally A New Hope, he is dead, as all "old mentor figures" must die. 
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Erwin on 28-12-2015, 15:12:11
Harrison Ford hates playing Han Solo so he is not coming back.

Rey is Luke's daughter. Probably the kid in the flashback we saw(a kid taken from her parents in a desert-like planet)is Rey, being given away by Luke to protect her and he probably wiped her mind too. That's why she seems connected to force.

There is also one other stupidly simple explanation for Rey's force awareness: Episode IV's Luke.

That kid was a simple farmer who never heard of force by the age of 20(almost) He meets Obi-Wan, gets out of Tatooine, gets to fly an X-Wing!!!?!?! (Rey=Millenium Falcon) and he makes an attack run against the Rebellion's #1 target: Death Star. I mean, that attack could have been made by any other remaining pilots, Biggs, Wedge... But it had to be Luke. In the middle of the run he suddenly hears Obi Wan talking over force(WHICH IN EPISODE III OBI WAN HAD TO LEARN THAT STUFF TO SPEAK TO QUI-GONN ACCORDING TO YODA) and destroys the Death Star by using force.

He also hurts Vader on the shoulder after a few days worth of training(we did not see much Lightsaber training)and gave him a rather good fight.(Vader was teasing him I know)

People thinks those actions by Luke is rational and yet they babble over Rey beating wounded Kylo Ren.  ::)

This is Star Wars people, get over it.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Kelmola on 28-12-2015, 17:12:42
Could Han Solo be alive? They dumped Phasma (female high ranked stormtrooper) in a trash shaft. Perhaps Solo fell into this shaft aswell, after he was stabbed and fell into oblivion. Trash gets dumped into space, so....... I just hope he is still alive 8)
He got run through with a lightsaber and then fell into a bottomless pit, I admire your stunningly blind optimism.
According to Clone Wars cartoons which are now canon comparable to movies (THANKS, DISNEY!) Maul actually survived the fall because reasons and returned, even though he did require a robotic lower torso and legs. Luke fell into a similarly seemingly bottomless shaft but the "air currents" handwaved in (as per the novelization) slowed his fall enough. (It is just a matter of time when it will be revealed that Mace Windu too survived his fall and that Finn is his grandchild.)

Therefore, falling into a bottomless pit is completely harmless in the galaxy far far away, unless you are Palpatine when you will simply explode before hitting the bottom, because for some inexplicable reason you cannot stop shooting Force lightning once you have begun, and apparently it targets yourself for the lack of another living being nearby, and apparently this somehow causes a violent explosion instead of horrible burn wounds...

Considering that lightsabres cauterize the wounds they cause, Han Solo should be just fine if the sabre did not pierce any major organs or blood vessels, and he managed to find a ship before Starkiller imploded... ;D
That kid was a simple farmer who never heard of force by the age of 20(almost) He meets Obi-Wan, gets out of Tatooine, gets to fly an X-Wing!!!?!?! (Rey=Millenium Falcon) and he makes an attack run against the Rebellion's #1 target: Death Star. I mean, that attack could have been made by any other remaining pilots, Biggs, Wedge... But it had to be Luke. In the middle of the run he suddenly hears Obi Wan talking over force(WHICH IN EPISODE III OBI WAN HAD TO LEARN THAT STUFF TO SPEAK TO QUI-GONN ACCORDING TO YODA) and destroys the Death Star by using force.

He also hurts Vader on the shoulder after a few days worth of training(we did not see much Lightsaber training)and gave him a rather good fight.(Vader was teasing him I know)

People thinks those actions by Luke is rational and yet they babble over Rey beating wounded Kylo Ren.  ::)
It requires no training to be able to talk to the Force ghosts that appear to you, otherwise Yoda wouldn't have had his little chat with Qui-Gon at all (sadly, this was cut from the movie). To be able to appear as a Force ghost (whether as a voice or a spectral being) does require a lot of training (or being a physical incarnation of the Force, as it was with Anakin).

Luke had been flying a lot his family's T-16 Skyhopper and bulls-eyeing womp rats from one, it had controls very similar to that of an X-Wing (in the novelization, they explicitly mention this and the Rebel techs even slightly modify Luke's X-Wing's controls to be even more similar). Also, Red Leader almost hit the same target with no Force whatsoever, so clearly, the Force was not a requirement, just made the job easier. As for "some days", Luke had clearly been taught by Obi-Wan's ghost for the past three years and he had obviously himself practiced meanwhile (how else could he have known to Force grab the fallen sabre, and purposefully relax himself for the task in order to concentrate?). Also, there is no clear indication of how much time passes during Falcon's journey from Hoth to Bespin (presumably using some not-mentioned emergency hyperdrive, unless ESB takes place over several YEARS), could be weeks or even months.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 28-12-2015, 17:12:59


That kid was a simple farmer who never heard of force by the age of 20(almost) He meets Obi-Wan, gets out of Tatooine, gets to fly an X-Wing!!!?!?! (Rey=Millenium Falcon) and he makes an attack run against the Rebellion's #1 target: Death Star. I mean, that attack could have been made by any other remaining pilots, Biggs, Wedge... But it had to be Luke. In the middle of the run he suddenly hears Obi Wan talking over force(WHICH IN EPISODE III OBI WAN HAD TO LEARN THAT STUFF TO SPEAK TO QUI-GONN ACCORDING TO YODA) and destroys the Death Star by using force.


I have wondered why Red Leader told Luke to lead Biggs and Wedge during the attack run.  For one thing, we don't know how long Biggs and Wedge have been with Red Squadron, all three of them sort of seem like comparative newbies (but of course, there wasn't anyone else left to take the shot once the more experienced first two trench run teams failed).  But I think Red Leader also saw a lot of natural talent in Luke and felt confident he could take the shot. 
[

Luke had been flying a lot his family's T-16 Skyhopper and bulls-eyeing womp rats from one, it had controls very similar to that of an X-Wing (in the novelization, they explicitly mention this and the Rebel techs even slightly modify Luke's X-Wing's controls to be even more similar). Also, Red Leader almost hit the same target with no Force whatsoever, so clearly, the Force was not a requirement, just made the job easier. As for "some days",even months.
Actually, the Force pretty much seems to have been a requirement.  Most of the other pilots seem pretty sceptical that it's even possible  (Fake Wedge: That's impossible, even for a computer! Red 10: We should be able to see it by now.  Wedge: Are you sure the computer can hit it?)  And of course Red Leader lines up the shot but the targeting computer misses.  Obi-Wan's pretty sure Luke would have missed too if he didn't use the force.

To go back to the topic at hand:  I think the Battle of Yavin is the best battle scene in the Star Wars series, and one of the best of all time.  The battle at the end of the Force Awakens was a very shallow imitation without even a quarter the suspense.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Ts4EVER on 28-12-2015, 19:12:19
Watched the movie a second time, this time with my family. Turns out my mom always thought stormtroopers were robots.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Zoologic on 29-12-2015, 07:12:00
It requires no training to be able to talk to the Force ghosts that appear to you, otherwise Yoda wouldn't have had his little chat with Qui-Gon at all (sadly, this was cut from the movie). To be able to appear as a Force ghost (whether as a voice or a spectral being) does require a lot of training (or being a physical incarnation of the Force, as it was with Anakin).

Anakin is an arsehole, even after redeeming himself. He should have appeared as Force Ghost before Ben Solo turned to dark side and worshiping the shit out of his dead past. "Look at me horseface! You serve lamer villainy boss, with cheesier name. Forget about my breathing apparatus!"
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 29-12-2015, 07:12:06
Holy crap there were people that disliked this movie?

Life must be hard being so pessimistic and having ridiculously high expectations for everything. :-*

Movie was awesome. X-Wings flying low over the water/ 'nuff said. JJ Abrams dropped the mic.

Just be glad you didn't get 2 hours of CNN coverage over the politics going to battle against the Order. (aka the prequels)
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Kelmola on 29-12-2015, 12:12:00
Holy crap there were people that disliked this movie?

Life must be hard being so pessimistic and having ridiculously high expectations for everything. :-*

Movie was awesome. X-Wings flying low over the water/ 'nuff said. JJ Abrams dropped the mic.

Just be glad you didn't get 2 hours of CNN coverage over the politics going to battle against the Order. (aka the prequels)
TFA had the same amount of exposition than the Original Trilogy had, and even without any supplemental materials or extended political debate it is made pretty clear what the situation is: First Order have so far been a fringe group operating in the periphery of the galaxy that no-one really takes seriously until they do a combined 9/11 and Pearl Harbor, and the Republic has been content to wage a half-hearted effort of a proxy war through the Resistance. What I missed on the first viewing was that they even mention in the Resistance briefing that the Hosnian system was destroyed, not Coruscant. Some explanation could perhaps have been included why the entirety of the Republic fleet was kept in low orbit above the capital, but at least they show ships in the brief shot and mention it afterwards.

---

The prequels had painstaking attention to detail in the gorgeous visuals, Williams was still in top form on the soundtrack, they had innovative ideas and a bold mix of different genres. All destroyed by horrible pacing, writing, and direction (and over-reliance on CGI). TFA plays it safe and is a straight-up action-adventure, but succeeds in everything where the prequels failed, and even though it should on paper feel all-too-familiar and Williams (and/or his apprentices) are phoning it in, it FEELS just like the Original Trilogy does. And feeling is all that matters.

I should really see it the third and fourth and fifth time, because I liked it even more on the second viewing (so it's becoming 5/5 now). Also, on second viewing I could pay attention to all the little details because I was not too overcome with emotion.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 29-12-2015, 14:12:29

I should really see it the third and fourth and fifth time, because I liked it even more on the second viewing (so it's becoming 5/5 now). Also, on second viewing I could pay attention to all the little details because I was not too overcome with emotion.
Be sure not to miss all the glib pandering injokes about the earlier films either!
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Zoologic on 29-12-2015, 17:12:30
Actually the movie is very fine for me, 4/5. After dissapointing holiday season releases, SW7 is a great relief.

BBC ruins it for me. They cover what the critics say about SW7:TFA and it was all applause. I had high expectations, and yet not dissapointed at all, considering the awfulness of the prequels. The critics (British particularly) are also hyping the last James Bond movie up. Spectre dissapoints me greatly, 3/5... no British bias. Then, there is the ending of The Hunger Games. The young adult genre is stale. But this one actually is pretty fine, 3.5/5.

I watched Episode II last night and it was cheesy, all around cheesy, it reeks of cheesiness in every dialogue, why does their facial expression doesn't match their dialogue and emotion? Also, Obi-wan supposed to be a wise master, yet he is inconsistent wise-cracking old kook in the prequels. He shown enough pestering to his Padawan, now in Episode II, it is where he started the whole "I hate it when he does that!" rhetorics. Anakin jumps out of the speeder to caught the assassin. He quips again. Yet, earlier, he smashes through Padme's apartment window to dangle on the assassin's droid. All in all, rubbish. Perhaps the worst Star Wars movie ever.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: PanzerKnacker on 29-12-2015, 18:12:18
Analyzing prequel soundtracks to identify Snoke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd_8-NCN5CU
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Kelmola on 30-12-2015, 00:12:24
Be sure not to miss all the glib pandering injokes about the earlier films either!
Yo, Imma let you finish, but A New Hope was the glibbest facsimile of them all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g8r0LhpMzk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNdb03Hw18M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OZq-tlJTrU

and to sum it up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx15aXjcDZg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--BVUTOrYP8
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 30-12-2015, 02:12:02
Be sure not to miss all the glib pandering injokes about the earlier films either!
Yo, Imma let you finish, but A New Hope was the glibbest facsimile of them all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g8r0LhpMzk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNdb03Hw18M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OZq-tlJTrU

and to sum it up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx15aXjcDZg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--BVUTOrYP8
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/cover_story/2015/12/star_wars_is_a_pastiche_how_george_lucas_combined_flash_gordon_westerns.html?wpsrc=sh_all_tab_em_bot

It's no secret that Lucas put together lots of different elements into one big pastiche.  The thing is that he had multiple, original inspirations.  J.J. Abrams only had one: a New Hope.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Erwin on 30-12-2015, 08:12:30
Episode I-II-III is all about one liners and meaningless staring into oblivion. People walks, talks, sits, talks a few minutes of action and stupid Haydon't actagains stupid acting. Even Natalie Portman plays like "Oh what the hell I'm doing here?"

And oh, go and watch Honest Trailers about those 3.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Seth_Soldier on 31-12-2015, 14:12:02
at least the CGI was awesome for the time !

E7 is disappointed because it had potentials but failed,
all these useless/annoying clin d'oeil,
no badass (why it wasn't Phasma who used the anti riot stick ? or even why she simply lower the shields without her setting a trick or something, the emo kid).
nuremberg style rally failed to reach the intensity of a killzone visari speech or the orginal nuremberg rally
explaining all the plot/relations too soon
a other deathstar to blow via its exhaust port ?
I like the new design of the trooper, but in the film it feels that their helmet bounce on their head.

I guess i'm too old for that ...
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Kelmola on 31-12-2015, 15:12:32
The thing is that he had multiple, original inspirations.  J.J. Abrams only had one: a New Hope.
I do not recall that the McGuffin of any of the previous Star Wars films was finding the missing Jedi Master - Luke navigates to Dagobah quite easily when told to. Also, where was the rescue mission that the Rebels mounted to save our heroes? Where was the Alien-esque hide-and-seek against man-eating monsters in the corridors of a mostly empty cargoship? Don't remember the victory in ANH being as hollow, after all, the Rebel military was hardly affected by the loss of one peaceful planet which was apparently not in very open rebellion else it would have been invaded already (though Leia would not obviously have admitted even if Alderaan had had significant military capabilities), don't remember the Rebel fleet being knocked out ever either.

The characters I also don't recall. Don't remember that any of the protagonists was an orphan who had forgotten about her parents, yet wanted to return home even after getting a taste of the adventure. Or that any of the protagonists was a defecting stormtrooper on the run. Or that the ace pilot was actually a serious professional whose skills actually matched his boasting. Or that estranged parents decide to renconcile their disagreement and try once more turning back their wayward son, all in vain. I don't even remember that any of the bad guys had shown any hesitation either when trying to embrace the darkness.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 02-01-2016, 16:01:49
The thing is that he had multiple, original inspirations.  J.J. Abrams only had one: a New Hope.
I do not recall that the McGuffin of any of the previous Star Wars films was finding the missing Jedi Master - Luke navigates to Dagobah quite easily when told to. Also, where was the rescue mission that the Rebels mounted to save our heroes? Where was the Alien-esque hide-and-seek against man-eating monsters in the corridors of a mostly empty cargoship? Don't remember the victory in ANH being as hollow, after all, the Rebel military was hardly affected by the loss of one peaceful planet which was apparently not in very open rebellion else it would have been invaded already (though Leia would not obviously have admitted even if Alderaan had had significant military capabilities), don't remember the Rebel fleet being knocked out ever either.

The characters I also don't recall. Don't remember that any of the protagonists was an orphan who had forgotten about her parents, yet wanted to return home even after getting a taste of the adventure. Or that any of the protagonists was a defecting stormtrooper on the run. Or that the ace pilot was actually a serious professional whose skills actually matched his boasting. Or that estranged parents decide to renconcile their disagreement and try once more turning back their wayward son, all in vain. I don't even remember that any of the bad guys had shown any hesitation either when trying to embrace the darkness.

Are you kidding?

Poe = Cross between Han and Luke/Wedge
Rey = Cross between Leia and Luke
Finn = Cross between Luke
Kylo Rylie = Cross between Luke and Vader (Indeed, the film is pretty clearly about imitations.  Rylo Kylie is imitating Darth Vader, the First Order is imitating the Empire.  Some might find this a clever motif, I think it's a cute gimmick at best.)

For the rest, I'll quote the AV Club Review: "The Force Awakens borrows so much from the 1977 original—environments, relationship dynamics, action scenes, even a basic plot structure—that it often resembles a remake as much as a straight sequel."

The film is an alright film, as one would suspect any throwback remake of a Star Wars film would be.  I'm sure it will create a legion of new fans.  The question is: why was this necessary?  A New Hope is already an excellent film that should win over fans, why make a new, slightly inferior clone?

Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Zoologic on 03-01-2016, 15:01:58
ANH is great for its time, but it will be utterly cheesy in today's standards. The whole space-action scenes uses old-timey "whole battlefield" view, sometimes with wrong perspective due to inconsistent prop scaling. Things were randomly shot, and generally just explodes. "Goof" section in IMDB.com will be full of unnecessary nitpickings if ANH was released instead.

The last update for ANH makes it even cheesier and lose its context. In short, the movie is hopelessly inadequate to compete in modern times with other Disney's giant frachise like Marvel and the upcoming DC's. Let alone kicking silver screen Star Trek aside, despite their meager success.

TFA has a lot of letdowns for sure, I still cannot come to terms with the loss of the whole EU materials (especially the nice ones) for a villain like Ben Solo. Are Desann (which is also a student of Luke and destroys the Jedi Academy) and Marka Ragnos not good enough compared to Kaylo Ren?
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 03-01-2016, 15:01:51
ANH is great for its time, but it will be utterly cheesy in today's standards. The whole space-action scenes uses old-timey "whole battlefield" view, sometimes with wrong perspective due to inconsistent prop scaling. Things were randomly shot, and generally just explodes. "Goof" section in IMDB.com will be full of unnecessary nitpickings if ANH was released instead.


I will hold that the Battle of Yavin is a far better directed and more suspenseful action sequence than the "Battle of Starkiller Base".  In fact, the three battles in the original Star Wars trilogy are probably my favourite action sequences to this day. 
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Zoologic on 03-01-2016, 16:01:08
Battle of Yavin scene is just like D-Day battle scenes: realistic, procedural, and representing the time of their creation. I also have strong likings for such classic war movies, they are intense in a grand scale. Modern battle scenes are just too focused on single localised overly-dramatised actions.

But here is the main problem in 2015: for a sci-fi, they are quite dated and lacks of the technological refinements that we have today. Teenies, millenials spoiled by their "smartphone" technologies would most likely laughed at: magnetically altered radio voices, monochromatic time-delayed displays (US Navy already has a clear-glass display like the one shown in Yavin rebel base during Vietnam war), dangling equipment cables inside a sophisticated space fighters cockpit, constant-needing of calibration targetting scope, separate targetting computer scope with twitchy mechanism (South Africa already have integrated Helmet Mounted Sight back in 1970s). The shaky cockpit camera shot and their combat very much represents World War 2 era fights. The 1974 General Dynamics F-16 already have "relaxed stability" flight controls by the help of FBW computers.

Compared to the "clean and modern, real space-age" looks of excessive screen glares of Star Trek? Yes, not for 2015 release. TFA instead, wraps the lack of militaristic senses with close action chasing camera view, exagerrated sound effects, and accentuated screen effects. It is just more relevant to this new generation.
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 03-01-2016, 19:01:45
Battle of Yavin scene is just like D-Day battle scenes: realistic, procedural, and representing the time of their creation. I also have strong likings for such classic war movies, they are intense in a grand scale. Modern battle scenes are just too focused on single localised overly-dramatised actions.

But here is the main problem in 2015: for a sci-fi, they are quite dated and lacks of the technological refinements that we have today. Teenies, millenials spoiled by their "smartphone" technologies would most likely laughed at: magnetically altered radio voices, monochromatic time-delayed displays (US Navy already has a clear-glass display like the one shown in Yavin rebel base during Vietnam war), dangling equipment cables inside a sophisticated space fighters cockpit, constant-needing of calibration targetting scope, separate targetting computer scope with twitchy mechanism (South Africa already have integrated Helmet Mounted Sight back in 1970s). The shaky cockpit camera shot and their combat very much represents World War 2 era fights. The 1974 General Dynamics F-16 already have "relaxed stability" flight controls by the help of FBW computers.


But the Force Awakens was heralded for "feeling just like the old Star Wars original trilogy".  I disagreed, precisely because it lacked everything you just named.  I don't understand the disconnect.  I love Star Wars, but the new film just didn't feel like Star Wars to me.  I judged it most harshly from the air battle.  I wanted 1977, I got 2015, and I was very unhappy (see also the weird tentacle monster scene).  Why have I not seen anyone else disappointed over this? 
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: THeTA0123 on 03-01-2016, 23:01:39
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNAy7yCMyBw

This guy pretty much nails it, whats wrong with star wars episode 7
Title: Re: *MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion
Post by: Zoologic on 04-01-2016, 16:01:23
The disconnect is of course, the polishing here and there, just like chrome trims in cheap cars: it doesn't disguise the glaring flaw. The audience wants a "Star Wars experience" not a saga like the original trilogy, and of course, the cheap sappy political soap opera that is the prequels.

Well, my only grief is that they throw away so much of the good EU materials for this.

Of course, not all EU materials should made it to the official canon, most are downright cheesy. But Episode VII nevertheless is a dissapoinment over their strict formulaic plot and being overly ambitious at "re-inventing" the wheel, despite the massively available inspirational content from the huge library that is EU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNAy7yCMyBw

This guy pretty much nails it, whats wrong with star wars episode 7

Really? I understand the reason why some people doesn't like TFA. But worse than the prequels?

The prequels are consisted of entirely illogical plot leading to Order 66. It makes the whole mythical "Jedi" stuff to be nothing but a bunch of not-so-wise supranatural powered above-the-law-morale-police that plays petty politics. In our universe, they are nothing more than zealot thugs with telekinesis power and lightsaber combat training who preach Zen, while reserving powerful political and military privileges. The Jedi council is so wise beyond any criticism, and so they are trusted over the Republic senate, to throw all their military solution on shady Kaminoan product. Never mind a test drive or service book check. A regular soccer Mom looking for new MPV is already wiser than the entire galaxy, let alone the Jedi council.

Even after combining the intelligence of a whole galaxy, they can't think of any better governance system than the silly "for the democracy". Even Obi-wan cried of that before abandoning Anakin. Yes, democracy is for some of the sentient lifeforms that clearly have bigger trouble controlling their minds and emotions than the humans. It shits heavily on the sequels, making overthrowing Emperor Palpatine to be "not even for the better".

Nevermind Starkiller's massive scientific silliness and insta-visible light years away event. Every Star Wars spaceships makes some sort of noise outside the atmosphere. The opening of the Episode III: RoTS shows two Jedi star fighters doing useless fancy maneuvers just to show off their new CGI prowess. Heck, new year's firework display clearly have sound delay after the flash due to massive difference between the speed of light and sound. However, in almost every Hollywood movie, every sound effect is action-synched.