Author Topic: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?  (Read 11117 times)

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #15 on: 18-06-2014, 23:06:54 »
The exception is night-time maps, where clearly some veteran players change their video settings and the advantage over new guys is amplified further, and becomes frustrating to the point of being discouraging.

Video settings don't change much on night maps, afaik it doesn't really matter is it day or night map and the biggest advantage (or disadvantage) related to video settings is lack of film grain and suppression/wounded shaders. About the rest, I try my best to help new guys everytime I'm online but unfortunately, we can't change attitude of some vets, they are just scorewhores to be ignored.

Offline Mudzin

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #16 on: 18-06-2014, 23:06:34 »
The exception is night-time maps, where clearly some veteran players change their video settings and the advantage over new guys is amplified further, and becomes frustrating to the point of being discouraging.

Video settings don't change much on night maps, afaik it doesn't really matter is it day or night map and the biggest advantage (or disadvantage) related to video settings is lack of film grain and suppression/wounded shaders. About the rest, I try my best to help new guys everytime I'm online but unfortunately, we can't change attitude of some vets, they are just scorewhores to be ignored.

Brightening your desktop is the solution to make a night map as a day! For me making night maps doesn't have any sense...

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #17 on: 19-06-2014, 03:06:30 »
"quasi cheaters;" (people who don't cheat, but the end effect is the same for the rest of the player base).

That's the best way I've heard to describe anyone like a Major Koenig. They don't cheat outright but instead dedicate their lives to sniping people as fast as they can and in the end ruin the game for a lot of new players. It's like playing basketball with LeBron James; fun and interesting for a while, but in the end you're just gonna rage quit after the 10th time he dunks on you. (for you Europeans, think Lionel Messi :P)

On Topic
FH2 does have a VERY high learning curve for new players. Not many people are willing to learn the ropes on a 10 year old game and take their lumps at the hands of the vets who have been honing their skills for the past decade.
In the end I don't think that many gameplay changes are going to give this mod a larger player base. (changes can be made to curb the ping snipers like Koenig) But I think it's more up to the community to be mature and respectful players to all the new guys they see.
Try to bite your tongue when you get blatantly tked by someone. Try and get your mics working and talk to/help out the new guys and give them a welcome experience. If you see a team is being stacked against, try and join the other team and get some teamwork going to at least give them a fighting chance.
The youtube videos and the fact that BF2 is almost free for people now will trickle in some new curious people, but ultimately it's up to us to show those players why we love this mod and make them stay. 

I'm glad The Nanny has found some good people to play with, it shows that there are still some respectable old vets in this mod that have the patience to help new guys.

My 2 cents on night maps; I LOVE them, they add immersion to the game. I don't play FH2 for the gameplay, I can watch someone dance around me and shoot my face off in any FPS. I play FH2 because I can ride through the desert on a shitty Italian tank 1 round, be hunting Panthers in the bocage with my satchel the next, and divebomb tommies in the desert the next. It's the best WW2 FPS that exists today, and we need to show the new guys why that is. :)     

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #18 on: 19-06-2014, 06:06:12 »
There are also many old players that have grown up and given up video gaming altogether.

There are also old players who got a girlfriend or already starting a healthier social life.

There are old players who cannot commit to this game on desired frequency, because of other commitments.

There are old players who found what he desired and switched (other games, RO2, CoH2, etc, which were not available back then during FH1942/early FH2 era)

There are old players who have deceased. Yes, this mod is that old.

Yes, BF2 is nearly 10 years old. But other BF2 mod is thriving. One thing that we generally ignore and intensely deny is BF2 Project Reality appeal. Many comments on FH2 video, promotion posts in other forum, pointed out this, that FH2 could be better if the gameplay is less arcadey and so on and so on. Ignoring these virgin armchair military video game action guys (I deliberately resort to name calling here) perhaps explains the difference in number of players between FH2 and PR, other than modern vs. WW2 theme faction.

But that is impossible to change, FH2 to me is as good as it is, just as good as PR on its own way. I am glad that FH2 developers, in their dedicate their free time to this amazing work out of fame/popularity that other bigger mods received. FH2 really deserved that MoTY award, and we the small community banded together to campaign for that, still we didn't receive that FatJoe in a proper tutu outfit picture yet.

Offline Slayer

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #19 on: 19-06-2014, 10:06:44 »
FH2 really deserved that MoTY award, and we the small community banded together to campaign for that, still we didn't receive that FatJoe in a proper tutu outfit picture yet.
We didn't? http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=19275.msg309663#msg309663

Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #20 on: 19-06-2014, 10:06:24 »
So FH2 dying is solely because of FatJoe not posting a proper tutu photo? You people are too demanding!

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #21 on: 19-06-2014, 11:06:35 »
Zoo, I don't think it's just the gameplay regarding the FH 2 vs PR debate. It has more to do with the attitude of the players, the Devs and the server admins. PR decided, right from the start, that they are going to base the game on teamwork. No other options, they decided they'll either succeed or fail horribly. They did manage to succeed in the end, as they offered something different, and they literally carved out the community to fit their desired vision.

FH2 on the other hand, is a mixed breed. It tries to appeal to anyone: The casual vBF2er trying to find something new, the hardcore competitive crowd, with the focus on shooting skills, the WWII history addict who only wants to relive a day of combat in WWII with all the beautifully crafted models and maps, and to some degree, to the teamworkers who still remember it's a team-based game, and it should be played as a team.

But the problem is, with trying to please everyone, it alienated everyone, cause there's always gonna be "some quirk that simply doesn't fit my playstyle". Some want the gameplay to be faster, some want it to be slower and more tactical, some want no kit limits and freedom of choice, some like only smaller maps, some can't stand infantry-only etc.

FH2 needs to decide on its target audience, and stick with it. Cause as we saw, major shifts in gameplay (2.45 tanking system, anyone?  ::)) will cause people to leave... And the question is only which people can we afford to lose?
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline Musti

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #22 on: 19-06-2014, 13:06:48 »
So FH2 dying is solely because of FatJoe not posting a proper tutu photo? You people are too demanding!
Look, it's a big deal mmkay? We did not get the photo we deserve goddamn it!
WARNING!
Assholes are closer than they appear!

Offline TASSER

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #23 on: 19-06-2014, 14:06:15 »
So FH2 dying is solely because of FatJoe not posting a proper tutu photo? You people are too demanding!
Look, it's a big deal mmkay? We did not get the photo we deserve goddamn it!

We didn't? http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=19275.msg309663#msg309663
BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!
BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! –ping       <3

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #24 on: 19-06-2014, 14:06:32 »
"quasi cheaters;" (people who don't cheat, but the end effect is the same for the rest of the player base).

That's the best way I've heard to describe anyone like a Major Koenig. They don't cheat outright but instead dedicate their lives to sniping people as fast as they can and in the end ruin the game for a lot of new players. It's like playing basketball with LeBron James; fun and interesting for a while, but in the end you're just gonna rage quit after the 10th time he dunks on you. (for you Europeans, think Lionel Messi :P)


I don't think that highly skilled people are a problem of FH2. At times, when DaZlayer was active nobody complained about it besides the usual cheating suspicions that some of us get once in a while. Last time on Keren I was the last surviving Italian and had a good run with the rifle and killed like 8 guys in a row. Ofcourse someone instantly called me a cheater, a guy who I had never seen on the server before.  ::)

Tbh, when I am new to a game I try to adapt to it, no matter how experienced other people are. When I got into Insurgency (when it was a mod) for example, I simply knew that it's gonna be frustrating. Not even talking about RO and DH. You just have to keep trying. I had my problems with Major Koenig but after a certain point you get to know how people play and even people like Unique or Major Koenig get predictable and vulnerable. Today Major Koenig is just one of many players for me. Can't kill him head to head with a rifle? Well, get an SMG or MG and flank him. Atleast that guy is active, a good teamplayer and always on the front line.

What really pisses me of are the statswhores who really destroy the game. People who always go for the most lame asset and only go for spawnkilling, using commander arty or only sitting on the big arty pieces where they feel untouchable. I played like two days ago and I had a serious problem with Angevin. On Bardia he placed a tripod in line of sight of a spawn on the last flag just to rack up some kills. People on the server started to complain as it was certainly not fair play and asked the admins to kick him. One round after that we played St. lo 32 and Angevin was on the arty in the german mainbase so theroreticaly an uncap, but on the frontline. A buddy of mine and me decided to just drive there have some fun and kill him on the arty. I placed an s-mine there as I exactly knew what he was gonna do next. I left the crossed flag and attacked Chateau afterwards. Ofcourse he started to whine and taking screen shots because his awesome K/D of 32:0 was f*cked up and only 32:2 afterwards. Next round on Hyacinth he played commander to rack up points and kills as was to be expected from him and only sat on the mortar. Those are the people who really destroy the game, who are not able to have a little fun and accept when they got tricked by someone being creative.

Only thing I can say about such people is what goes around comes around.  >:(
« Last Edit: 19-06-2014, 14:06:13 by 5hitm4k3r »

Offline SamusMaximus8492

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #25 on: 19-06-2014, 19:06:26 »
Of course the silver lining with players like Keonig, EmmitFitzhume, etc are the rare but extremely gratifying moments of beating them at their own game. Got the drop on Keonig once with a no. 4, head on, in that microsecond where he had me in his sights. So satisfying  ;D

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #26 on: 19-06-2014, 21:06:21 »
Read it: a proper one. Look at our posts at that thread!

LuckyOne:
FH from the start has always been a theme-mod, historically correct one. They converted the whole BF1942 into a more mature and historically correct contents. Some of the maps are recycled from the defaults. But in the process of doing it, it inadvertently improved the original BF1942 game.

PR also started the same, small things than step into much bigger thing. It started with realism theme, and then went on to forcing the famous team play mechanism. I was one of the first downloader when PR was still less than 1 MB mod.

They got very different in time, PR develop that way, while FH the other way. But people remembered FH that improved BF1942 a lot, including realism. Then came BF2, and then FH2, and later, PR, which excels on that realism point. The damage was already done. FH2 tried to shake it off by going full reverse to further distance itself from PR, as you put it: FH2.45. It was a disaster.

We have to agree on what makes FH2 good and polish it! Things like beautiful statics, scenery, effects, the immersion and the experience of "being there." It is therefore clear that map-making is FH2's most excellent part, apart from beautifully rendered vehicles. The scaling is very convincing, that it is almost an art of itself.

5hitm4k3r:
People who are after stat feels rewarded for something. Some people do hog AA because they are after AA badge. Same for tanks, arty, and other assets. Some do others. It is time to design the achievement awards more carefully.


Offline Kelmola

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #27 on: 19-06-2014, 21:06:50 »
I would start by taking out the maps that are best suited to <64p away from the 100p rotation: Giarabub, Sfakia, Tunis, Brest, Ramelle, Anctoville. Yes, large matches on these are fun every once in a while for the sheer carnage, but they don't really play well with 80+. PHL and PDH are straddling the fence.

Is it possible to have Omaha and Gold (ie. whatever are the new maps, once they become "old" maps) in rotation more than twice? Could be even that the server would run both twice in a row at the beginning of the cycle so with teamswitch you could experience both sides, and then they would be included more times in the randomized part of the rotation?

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #28 on: 20-06-2014, 00:06:29 »
Sure it is possible to have certain maps more than one time in the rotation and that's how we handled it for the release of 2.46. Not quite sure how it works atm so would need to check that. But we as the server admins have to ask the question what we want to achieve. I can asure you that we spend hours over hours just on the topic how to get the best possible map rotation, how to get the right tools in place and how to give a good view what FH2 actually is and what the devs wanted to achieve. I think, that every map deserves it's place in the mod, even Aberdeen and therefore all of them are in the rotation on the server every day. The rotation is totaly random, so the only thing that could make you believe otherwise is a server crash or you are playing the game too much  ;D

Tbh, I don't know why we are still discussing the map rotation for FH2. We have 40 maps with different theatres, different game modes, different sizes, light settings, vehicles loadouts, factions etc. The list is endless and the variety of gameplay that you will find in FH2 is extremely huge. We have basicly over 200!! different tank models in the game alone.

If you guys raise that question again, please show me one FPS game (yeah I know, BF 1942+mods) that offers that amount of maps, and that huge variety and this fine sense for details. Because I don't know any.  :-\

Maps, or map rotations are certainly not the problem of FH2. From my personal POV it was the release of 2.45 and the huge amount of time that it took to fix the most urgent problems. Not bashing anyone here, but it is more or less an observation of how the things went. Alot of long timers drifted away and lost interest. Luckily 2.46 brought back some of the old faces, but it was always a struggle for FH2 in the last couple of years after 2.4 to gain new players and keep them. It is a niche game and we have a nice little, but quite stable community.

Not saying that I wouldln't like to see many more people, but I sometimes feel that this train left long time ago.




Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #29 on: 20-06-2014, 01:06:36 »
Kinda off topic but I just got off a round where some people where talking about client side 'cheats.' like turning off fog or making soldier textures pink. People who do this would certainly ruin the game imo, but for the life of me I can't think of anyone who'd be that stupid.

5hitm4k3r, as an admin, is it possible to catch people who mod the client side of FH to their advantage, have you seen things like that?