about dead bodies and violence

[LuckyOne]

Lainer is completely right.. people would play more carefully if they could get wounded / man down / incapacitated than if they "die".. if you "die" you just go to the store and check out a fresh new avatar, he doesnt mean anything. Hey. you got 600 in the store

Natty, you're brilliant, you're finally starting to realise the flaws current FH2 has. Now only if we could make you adopt our "old-fashioned, hardcore realism" way of thinking we could completely turn this mod over...

So what's your suggestion of solving the "store"? Maybe if we remove the ability to show exact number of reinforcements left (for example showing only the percentage, and in specific intervals, or only when commander orders reconnaisance, so you're never sure of how many exactly there are left) we could get similar behaviour without having to change gameplay mechanics a lot.

After all history has shown that the greatest fear comes from the unknown (also the greatest thrill  )
and gameplay statistic show that players tend to play more carefully in endgame, when reinforcements are low... Especially if they see the enemy tickets is closely matched to them (or if they don't know how many of them are left).

[Ts4EVER]

The solution would be removing 1s1k, especially at long range.

[LuckyOne]

The solution would be removing 1s1k, especially at long range.

It would, but let's discuss something less drastic first...

Personally, I like 1shot kill, I have enough problems with hitting people already thanks to poor ping, lousy hit detection, FPS drops etc.

I think it's more of a problem of godlike accuracy and less of 1shotkill per se. Even people you are trying to suppress can easily shoot you back unless you happen to be in a tank.

The other problem I noticed could be the speed at which players run... Since the running speed reduction it has become much easier to shoot running people at long range. (maybe the slowdown improved hit detection?)

[Natty]

oh I dont see that as drastic at all. What is drastic to me is to enforce 1s1k to simulate some sort of "realism".. it's like skipping three steps in the process without rationally looking how the game actually works. FH2 slapped 1s1k on to the weapons from day 1, and never re-audited the behaviour.

We definitely should have tuned the lethality down and at least see how it played. Now we have no idea, what if FH2 would become twice as fun if you could survive 1 shot to the chest (die on the 2nd)?

Feels like a potential waste to not even know it, married to some old dead ideal.

[Paavopesusieni]

Think about it, after 10 rifle shots you FINALLY hit the tiny black spot on the horizon "YES!" only to figure out you need a second shot to kill him... OUTRAGE! People would just rush trough rifle fire and start spamming rifle grenades.

[Natty]

If we have a game play where you shoot 10 shots at black spots on the horizon (which we don't), then that's the problem. 80% of all FH2 shots hit targets from 0-125meters

[hitm4k3r]

The RO video at 1:50 looked horrible, like a L4D splatter FX.. Although, one thing I agree with, with exaggrated hit FX and sounds, you would know better if a team mate who is not in your FoV is getting hit (as in the video) the knowledge that you are the only target left, could indeed make you take cover (if that is the behaviour we want from the players)

I do like fh2, but havent played it in a while, waiting for 2.45 since the changes we made has made  2.4 feel too old an boring for me now.. will get back in the fights at 2.45 release

Why is the hit exaggerated? What do you expect of a guy who got hit by a AP round of a tank? This game doesn't have the shiniest graphics but the information you get as a player are very well implemented. And why would you not want that a player takes cover, after is buddy next to him got ripped? This would be much more "realistic" and something I expect from a soldier in general.

About the 2s1k solution: please don't make it like Battlegroup Frontlines. There you needed two shots and it felt just wrong. And I need atleast two shots quiet often in FH2. I have like 8000 kills and an accuracy of around 40%. I think that speaks for itself. The hitpoints of the playermodels are quiet good as they are now - if there aren't any hitbugs - only the MP's could need a bit more damage and more suppression.

[Archimonday]

I'm not against the whole two shot kill idea, but the first hit would have to be crippling.

[LuckyOne]

I'm not against the whole two shot kill idea, but the first hit would have to be crippling.

So basically we just need a damage reduction to make the bleeding effect come up more often? (i.e. always, except on headshots).

Hmmmmm that might work...

[Archimonday]

That's what I'd like to see if it was done for two hits. Usually the bleed out effect, like the desaturation of the screen in BF3 makes me take cover. Doesn't it also stop you from sprinting?

[sn00x]

my observation of cod players and peopleplaying games in that direction, is that they freak out Completly when the desaturation of the screen comes, trying to get to cover quick as hell and so on, and that is imo a Very good point here getting more of that grey-screen of death.

[TimeMachineAssassin]

I know when ppl kill me they sometimes desecrate my body by stabbing it a bunch, or shouting some stuff, I take it as there trying to convey some message to me that isnt nesisarily apparent with normal death sequence. Time scales matter, if i get immune to bloody gore in 10 expierences or 1000, it matters. Yes if i play mortal kombat now, whatever. Back then for so many months, extreme. BF3 cool now, later, something more immersersive and emotional will be available. I dont know if Im making any sense. Never thought about game design before, very interesting discussion anyway. Easy out, drunk

[Wakain]

I just have to quote a famous retired dutch politician here: "2 things:"
1. I wouldn't mind a bit more grit in fh2, I don't feel static bodies would be the way to go (contrast between static and dead teammates would be huge and who shot those guys anyway? we're the first guys here...etc.), I'd much prefer something with sounds and ragdolls(deathanims), perhaps letting the bodies stay a little longer (though not too much ofc). I think fh2 started on this way already with the last patch though, I'm thinking about those top-of-their-voices, over-the-lungs deathscreams (some of which remind me of bf2142 btw ) which made the overall ambience a lot more serious.

2. In regard of this discussion over hitdamage etc. I would like to say that it isn't the 1s1k thing that I mind, but much rather this huge accuracy I believe natty spoke of earlier as well. I for one would like to see a bit less accuracy, even on smaller ranges, to make for some interesting and longer firefights. Firefights now are often over quick and are decided by reinforcements, rather than by kills (perhaps somewhat too realistic?), pixelhunting on large distances I actually sometimes find more interesting as it requires skill and a bit of luck, and takes much longer to decide.

Ah well, those are my 2 cents;)

[Ts4EVER]

Standard deviation in bolt action rifles would take too much control away from the player. If you hit with them should be determined by skill, not chance. However, warfare is always about fire and movement and about moving into the position from where you can inflict most damage. In FH2 it is all fire power, because Rifles are basically effective everywhere. If they only dealt bleed damge over a certain range (say, for argument's sake, 75m) then it would have two effects:

1. You wouldn't get insta gibbed as much without a chance to retaliate
2. You would have to decide between taking a shot or maneuvring / holding your fire to get closer to the enemy
3. machine guns would receive an indirect buff, since their rate of fire would partly off set the damage decrease, making them the kings of long range fire they should rightly be.

[Comrade Roe]

I too would love corpses not being so silly. Let's face it guys, with the way troops fall in this you might as well have been witness to an ant in your little one's ant farm dying. It has no effect on you.

Now if, like in afforementioned Red Orchestra, with dismemberment, you really get a "whoa" feeling and it even can affect gameplay in making a  point enough that it makes you wanna hide behind cover (If someone just had chunks blown out of them compared to a little blood spurt, I know I'd instinctively hide)

A frag grenade vs a pistol round, a HE shell vs an MG burst. A frightening amount of compiled AP mines vs a 30-second spray of MG42 rounds?