Poll

Should Forgotten Hope 2 go standalone?

Yes
No
Other (please explain in thread)

Author Topic: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.  (Read 9284 times)

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #45 on: 26-04-2016, 23:04:24 »
There would be no lawsuit. The only repercussion would be a court order to discontinue distribution, which would require EA to have lawyers file a complaint. Which they would not. Check PR.

That's pretty short-sighted especialy when you know how lawyers deal with copyright infringements in some countries, like here in Germany for example, people who make a living out of suing people for just doing the wrong step at the wrong time, even if it is not an infringment on purpose.

And this exactly is the problem, that Harmonikater explained. Distributing FH2 as a standalone using content and code from BF2 and redistributing this stuff is nothing else than ripping a cd with music and distributing it in the world wide web. Even without the copyright holder even taking care or knowing of the infringement, a certain group of people like picky lawyers will try to get you nailed down and earn some money. And they will not write a letter to roll back, they will send you a bill.

That's something that goes beyond some peoples horizon and sometimes it feels like talking to a group of five year old. Even if you explain it perfectly fine and with every information needed and some good reasoning, people will still insist on that FH2 devs are

a) totaly against horrible Standalone (wich is complete rubbish, as we all know of pros and cons)
b) too lazy or
c) just too scared.

Anyway, everything that needed to be said was marked in my last post.

@Dancho: porting FH2 as is (over 40 maps, all the equipment and stuff, looking though every object in the mod including sounds, textures and replacing them) to a new engine is such a huge amount of work that it is not a valuable option.
« Last Edit: 26-04-2016, 23:04:21 by hitm4k3r »

Offline Ivancic1941

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #46 on: 26-04-2016, 23:04:58 »
hitmaker,why are you even trying??
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Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #47 on: 26-04-2016, 23:04:03 »
Because once in a while it is good to communicate problems.  ;)

Offline Dancho

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #48 on: 27-04-2016, 00:04:21 »
 Well, Hitmaker has just ruined all my child's dreams. Also I don't find the point of standalone if new engine is not implemented. There are more interesting things to do like Eastern Front maps for example.
« Last Edit: 27-04-2016, 00:04:29 by Dancho »

Offline Zeno

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #49 on: 27-04-2016, 01:04:53 »
There would be no lawsuit. The only repercussion would be a court order to discontinue distribution, which would require EA to have lawyers file a complaint. Which they would not. Check PR.

That's pretty short-sighted especialy when you know how lawyers deal with copyright infringements in some countries, like here in Germany for example, people who make a living out of suing people for just doing the wrong step at the wrong time, even if it is not an infringment on purpose.

And this exactly is the problem, that Harmonikater explained. Distributing FH2 as a standalone using content and code from BF2 and redistributing this stuff is nothing else than ripping a cd with music and distributing it in the world wide web. Even without the copyright holder even taking care or knowing of the infringement, a certain group of people like picky lawyers will try to get you nailed down and earn some money. And they will not write a letter to roll back, they will send you a bill.

That's something that goes beyond some peoples horizon and sometimes it feels like talking to a group of five year old. Even if you explain it perfectly fine and with every information needed and some good reasoning, people will still insist on that FH2 devs are

a) totaly against horrible Standalone (wich is complete rubbish, as we all know of pros and cons)
b) too lazy or
c) just too scared.


Im going to go out on a limb here and say that C) seems to be the trend.

If PR with its thousands of weekly players and a much bigger public footprint still have not attracted hunter-lawyers since going standalone, FH will surely not do it. If anything, they will get PR first, with its much bigger distribution violation.

I really dont want this mod to dissapear into nothing, but for how long do you thing a mod like this will survive with a half filled server at average? My humble suggestion would be to go standalone, and push hard marketing towards ww2 game communities like Traction wars and Batallion 1944. If you do this right i see chances of 50-100% increase in active players, or even more!

if you look at PRs playercounts pre and after standalone, they went from 200-300 at peak players, to 900-1000 peak players after. Even now, a year after release, the playerbase is rock steady with 700-900 players during weekends. (even after the release of Squad)

And please dont think im being critical towards your work here, the mod is still amazing after all these years, but for a mod to be great, it needs a playerbase, or else you could just have dropped all MP support and used the time to NavMesh for bots instead.
« Last Edit: 27-04-2016, 01:04:42 by Zeno »

Offline Slayer

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #50 on: 27-04-2016, 15:04:18 »
There would be no lawsuit. The only repercussion would be a court order to discontinue distribution, which would require EA to have lawyers file a complaint. Which they would not. Check PR.

That's pretty short-sighted especialy when you know how lawyers deal with copyright infringements in some countries, like here in Germany for example, people who make a living out of suing people for just doing the wrong step at the wrong time, even if it is not an infringment on purpose.

And this exactly is the problem, that Harmonikater explained. Distributing FH2 as a standalone using content and code from BF2 and redistributing this stuff is nothing else than ripping a cd with music and distributing it in the world wide web. Even without the copyright holder even taking care or knowing of the infringement, a certain group of people like picky lawyers will try to get you nailed down and earn some money. And they will not write a letter to roll back, they will send you a bill.

That's something that goes beyond some peoples horizon and sometimes it feels like talking to a group of five year old. Even if you explain it perfectly fine and with every information needed and some good reasoning, people will still insist on that FH2 devs are

a) totaly against horrible Standalone (wich is complete rubbish, as we all know of pros and cons)
b) too lazy or
c) just too scared.


Im going to go out on a limb here and say that C) seems to be the trend.
So you volunteer to take the legal risk upon you and create a community installer, right?

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #51 on: 27-04-2016, 17:04:27 »
Also on a little side note: in Germany we have limitation periods for copyright infringements of 70 years. So the guys from PR can still get into trouble, depending where their servers are located.

As for our standpoint: we are not PR. It is not out business to manage their risks. Maybe they are lucky, who knows. But as mentioned a couple of times: we can't rely on luck, or if's and when's, when legal responsibility is involved. This mod is a hobby for us.  :)

Offline Jimi Hendrix

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #52 on: 27-04-2016, 17:04:03 »
 This goes without saying, but everyone here including myself, is a big fan of all the DEVs work and love the mod, otherwise i wouldnt be here.

I apologize for the harsh language, so here is the best way to illustrate my personal confidence in my opinion.



I would personally set up an unaffiliated 3rd party website and host FH2 standalone and proudly take any repercussions.

 There. Is that clear enough.


 8)
FH2 Fan....



Offline GeoPat

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #53 on: 27-04-2016, 17:04:20 »
I would also volunteer to help.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1mlCPMYtPk
edit~ this one is better I think
« Last Edit: 27-04-2016, 17:04:37 by GeoPat »

Offline Ivancic1941

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #54 on: 27-04-2016, 19:04:40 »
This goes without saying, but everyone here including myself, is a big fan of all the DEVs work and love the mod, otherwise i wouldnt be here.

I apologize for the harsh language, so here is the best way to illustrate my personal confidence in my opinion.



I would personally set up an unaffiliated 3rd party website and host FH2 standalone and proudly take any repercussions.

 There. Is that clear enough.


 8)
FH2 Fan....
Now,can somebody make standalone .exe and give it to Jimi?  ;D
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Offline Zeno

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #55 on: 28-04-2016, 01:04:36 »
Then the question is, would the devs be willing to create an .exe for this?

Offline Airshark79

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #56 on: 28-04-2016, 10:04:48 »
Don't count on the devs for anything. It'll take thirty years to write a line of code

Offline Slayer

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #57 on: 28-04-2016, 11:04:11 »
Then the question is, would the devs be willing to create an .exe for this?
If you would have read the replies carefully, the one who makes the exe also takes upon him the legal risk.

Offline Erwin

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #58 on: 28-04-2016, 12:04:39 »
Giving some money to a Vietnamese and releasing from a Vietnamese website could also be a solution.  ;D
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Offline Not So Civil Engy

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Re: Forgotten Hope 2, The Standalone discussion.
« Reply #59 on: 28-04-2016, 13:04:03 »
Don't count on the devs for anything. It'll take thirty years to write a line of code

Airshark, have you ever seen the movie ghost town?  If you haven't, there is a line from a movie that I think is perfect for you.

"...at some point in your life, you're gonna have to stop and ask yourself the ultimate question. This business of... being such a fucking prick, what is it really getting me?"