Theism - Atheism

[Captain Pyjama Shark]

I just completed God is not Great by Christopher Hitchens.  I am beginning to lean towards philosophy in university, and theology is particularly interesting to me.   So I picked up Hitchens book on the recommendation of my dear mammy.

I went into the book a doubtful deist of some sort, and have finished it with a firm atheism.  Hitchens' book differs from Dawkins in that he argues not simply that religion is man-made, but that it is also evil and no religion is innocent.  A very good book indeed.  Hitchens is very snarky, though admittedly it's a tough subject not to be snarky about, especially since his main point is that no religion deserves respect, a view I have come to agree with.

Next up on the list I'm going to read In the Shadow of the Sword:The Birth of Islam and the Rise of Arab Global Empire by Tom Holland, C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity and Bertrand Russell's Why I am not a Christian.

[Alakazou]

If you want to learn more about the debate between new atheist and theist read those writer

Christian:
-Alister McGrath
-William Lane Craig
-N.T. Wright
-John Polkinghorne

Atheist:
-Michael Ruse

New atheist:
-You allready know them


C.S. Lewis wrote many book about the rationality of believing in the Christian God (The Great Divorce
The Problem of Pain, Miracles, A Grief Observed, The Abolition of Man)

[Captain Pyjama Shark]

Yes my mother is a big fan of Lewis so I'll be reading a lot of his works to be sure, and I'd be very interested in reading other theist works to see a response to Hitchen's points and such.  What is the difference between atheist and New atheist?

[Alakazou]

The new atheist (Harris, Hitchen, Atkins, Dawkins, Dennett) are like the fundies of atheism. They arn't really new but they are aggressive.Like the christian fundies they use rhetoric, sophism and agressivity to say what they have to say. Many atheist don't want to be link with them.

The «old» atheist were in intellectual circle like university, but now the new atheist are more popular among the popular class.

On youtube you will find a lot of debate with new atheist.

[Captain Pyjama Shark]

Ah, I see, thank you.  I can certainly see the aggression in Hitchens' writing, I'll be interested to compare it with Bertrand Russell.

[Korsakov829]

New atheists are people who are against all religion and actively fight and oppose it. It might even become violent, perhaps even a few militant groups have already formed.

[Alakazou]

You describe people like Marx or Freud or even Staline.

But when we talk about new atheist, it's the group who appear after 9/11.

Like I have said, new atheist isn't a new ideology/worldview.

[Ts4EVER]

I'm an atheist, which means I don't believe in god. Richard Dawkins on the other hand seems to hate god, probably for not existing.

[Thorondor123]

Have you actually read any of his books?

[Captain Pyjama Shark]

I'm an atheist, which means I don't believe in god. Richard Dawkins on the other hand seems to hate god, probably for not existing.

IF THE EARTH IS BILLIONS OF YEARS OLD THEN WHY IS IT ONLY 2013??? CHECKMATE ATHEIST

[th_battleaxe]

I'm an atheist, which means I don't believe in god. Richard Dawkins on the other hand seems to hate god, probably for not existing.

IF THE EARTH IS BILLIONS OF YEARS OLD THEN WHY IS IT ONLY 2013??? CHECKMATE ATHEIST

Didn't they teach you in college that time is relative? 

[Alakazou]

I'm an atheist, which means I don't believe in god. Richard Dawkins on the other hand seems to hate god, probably for not existing.

The new atheist are anti theist. For me, when people are anti something, it almost always finish in a dualistic worlview where fanatism appear more easily. Not everytime but in this case it happen very often.

Dawkins is just the opposite of Ken Ham and both are aggressive.


Anyway, Dawkins in biology is great, but when He talk about religion or philosophy, it's poor and ludicrous. Like many new atheists «leader» in my opinion.

[Lightning]

I'm an atheist, which means I don't believe in god. Richard Dawkins on the other hand seems to hate god, probably for not existing.

If you think Dawkins hates God you've never read Hitchens.

[Alakazou]

Funny fact, the brother of Christopher, Peter, is a anglican christian.

[Lightning]

Some weeks ago, I got into watching debates about religion on youtube and I do think I managed to watch quite a lot of it. At some point though I got a little bored of hearing the same stuff Dawkins and Hitchens repeat so often, so I figured I would go at it from a different angle. I would try to listen really closely to the theist arguments and try to convince myself that there is indeed a God. However, with most of the theists being Christians, there is always this preposterous non sequitur that is like "Well, the cosmological constant is so perfectly finely tuned to our existence ... that Jesus Christ must have died for our sins". Especially William Lane Craig likes doing this. He starts out with these smart-sounding philosophical arguments, but at some point then claims the Bible is a historical account which verifies the existence of Jesus and all the miracles he performed.

So I'm wondering who are the convincing non-religious believers who are interesting to read or listen to?