Aug. 09/2011 Gamespy review of 2.4

[Natty]

Yes, but when a potential new player reads this review and then thinks "meh, only desert"

nope, people dont think like that. And he didnt write "only desert" either.
And he certainly didn't advertise FH2 either.

New people dont care what color is on the ground or tanks, or what "countries" the game takes place in. That's stuff you care about after playing the game alot.(Im using the " " since the game doesnt take place in any country, it's all just the same terrain-grids from BF2 engine, just with different shapes and colors)

[Slayer]

Of course you are right there, when you think like a tech guy from a department in a company. But you are oh so terribly wrong when you think like a computergamer who wants to try out a new game.

But then again, we have been over this a gazillion times, and you still think all gamers think like tech guys.

[Natty]

nothing to do with "tech guys" whatever you mean  by that.. I think like a computergamer as well, and when people read a review about a mod/game, they mainly want to know what it is like to play it, whatever army/country/faction/world it's set in, is secondary.
Important, sure. But secondary.

[Seth_Soldier]

  mods aren't retail video games.
Check RO1 and the difference between the mod and the game.

Mods are here to express a point of view, not to copy retail video games point of view ...
If you try to apply retail video games rules to mods, it ends up to an average retail video games(or failure) and vice versa.
Same problem with indie games...

Personnaly i missed the times fh was a real ww2 reference for the ww2 community and not an other generic retail video game with just some features that make it "fresh".

[Slayer]

I think like a computergamer as well, and when people read a review about a mod/game, they mainly want to know what it is like to play it, whatever army/country/faction/world it's set in, is secondary. Important, sure. But secondary.

You forgot the "for me"

Because, for me the faction/army/whatever is very important. I select games on theme and then try them out. After that I pick the one which plays best imo.

For you it is not that important obviously, and that is totally fine by me, but I wonder why you keep assuming that your thoughts about games are shared by 99,9% of the gaming community.

[Natty]

Didn't you read my post? I wrote that it is important. For some people.

This review wasn't about theme, it was about game play. If he would have written a theme-based review, I am sure that we would get praises for all the historical stuff we crammed in to the mod. But he didn't. You know why? Because readers of gamespy reviews first of all care about what it is like to play the mod/game they are reading about. If the mod/game has pretty flowers, nice tanks or correct insignias on the uniform, is something they can decide for themselves later.

@Seths post: no idea what you're on about. No one talked about retail games or copy anything. The "video game rules" you speak about, is proper design, you might not understand it, but the better the design is, the more popular and interesting the mod/game becomes. That is the hard part. Making models that lool like WW2, or make maps about real-world locations is the easiest part. That is why the reviewer didn't care about that part.
Making the game play fluid, stable and interesting is the hard part. That is why the reviewer highlighted the issues we have in those parts, as those are the parts that matters for the reader, like it or not. 

[THeTA0123]

Yeah Natty, one big selling point of Fh2 is diversity, so it would be nice if he had shown pics from several different theatres.

exactly, this, seems to me, that the reviewer only played a few hours of FH2.

FH2 Shines with diversity, and especialy diffrent theathre. FH2 has maps of battles, no single game company today has ever made.

[djinn]

Yes, but when a potential new player reads this review and then thinks "meh, only desert"

nope, people dont think like that. And he didnt write "only desert" either.
And he certainly didn't advertise FH2 either.

New people dont care what color is on the ground or tanks, or what "countries" the game takes place in. That's stuff you care about after playing the game alot.(Im using the " " since the game doesnt take place in any country, it's all just the same terrain-grids from BF2 engine, just with different shapes and colors)

Again, this goes back to our initial argument, and what I think of the role of Mimicry

Although, I don't think we should expect a reviewer to 'Advertise' the game. It does matter from an interested gamers perspective what theaters are covered. If it all sems like North Africa and desert... Well, they might not bother...

People who play these kinds of games, NOT all, but ALOT, watch the likes of SPR, BoB, play OTHER WWII titles like COD (Kind of why they would prefer COD1, 2 and think the rest were shit, because it degenerated into shootemup with less reason for players to care about diverse exotic locales). In FH2, a player likes to make use of the terrain to do what he has to, so if a game appears (From a review) to only offer NA, then it might not be worth his while - And moreso, for a mod, since most tend to not play with the same level ass commercial titles with triggers and voice-acted game queues that make you forget its all grids and colourless terrain.

If a player had a sense from the review that it covered NA, Normandy and the Bocage etc, house-to-house combat, combined arms, air combat, tank combat and ground combat - including artillery etc, the snow-covered Bulge battles, their inner sense of BoB, Band of Brothers and what they liked about other WWII titles kicks in... The review doesn't help this aspect.  Sure it wasn't expected to - its just a review. But that's what we are saying. I doubt the 'expensive' gale effects of Eppeldorf were done for players just interested in objectives and terrain grids.

Trust me, Natty. players don't jump into a game thinking of terrain grids from BF2. Testers maybe, even then... Not sure that's its all strictly business. Players WANT to be decieved... Reviewers promise this.

[Natty]

bf1942, a game from 2002 offers more diversity than FH2

bf1942: - Africa, Europe, Russia, Pacific, Italy
Fh2: - Africa, Europe, "greece"

[Laboraffe]

When it comes to traversing anything that isn't flat terrain, it's a coin toss as to whether you'll be traveling across the ground smoothly. This especially applies to vehicles, with the dated physics system struggling to accommodate your halftrack hitting a pothole.

And that's why we have..... roads? Personally it makes sense to me... Want a nice smooth ride? Use a road!

Yup - Was quite the reason why Tanks piled up on their way to Arnhem. Why didn't they go through the countryside, you might ask? Indeed, why didn't they.

Well, not so much rough terrain but impassable due to softness; so it was necessary to use the narrow dyke roads. In any case, speed was of the essence and they had air superiority to contend with defences so even if possible cross-country probably have been avoided.

[jan_kurator]

bf1942, a game from 2002 offers more diversity than FH2

bf1942: - Africa, Europe, Russia, Pacific, Italy
Fh2: - Africa, Europe, "greece"

yeah it also had BAR LMG for all allied nations and many other variations like 2 types of tanks ect.
bf1942 is a hell of a diversity, Mr Dice! 

[hitm4k3r]

bf1942, a game from 2002 offers more diversity than FH2

bf1942: - Africa, Europe, Russia, Pacific, Italy
Fh2: - Africa, Europe, "greece"

Well, when it comes to theatres, that are covered by the game, then you are right. But all in all FH2 brings alot of more content and possibilities concerning the gameplay, than BF 1942. Although I hope to see big navals battles and the pacific theater after the eastern front. You can get content and possibilities, that you can't get in any other game with this high rate of details. Don't forget the community, that makes it possible to enjoy new stuff, as new maps and content etc. And a big bonus: it is all for free and it gets developed and improved over the years. It is a reason, why I won't buy BF3. There is too less content and depth for that much money.

To summarize it: the review is good, but a bit more information about the different theaters and this stuff wouln't have hurt. And to my mind the poor physics of the mod are caused by the engine and not a "poor mapdesign". A good mapdesign wouldn't prevent the vehicles from bouncing of tinny obstacles. This will only be possible, if you make empty maps.

[Natty]

A good mapdesign wouldn't prevent the vehicles from bouncing of tinny obstacles. This will only be possible, if you make empty maps.

wrong

[hitm4k3r]

And how would you explain, that a PZ IVH (around 25 t) flips on top, while driving on a little slope. Do you want to remove terrain from the maps to prevent this problem? You can't deny the fact, that it is caused by the engine, that a tank bounces in the reverse direction after hitting an object - not because the obstacle is there.

[djinn]

Erm.. guy.s.. The  Review? Natty has his theory opinion perspective. We all know that. He wont move on this, so why try to argue this out. Let's FOCUS on the review


Hey!


I have an idea...

Let's focus on the REVIEW!