Author Topic: How to matter to your squad and teammates  (Read 3803 times)

Offline djinn

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How to matter to your squad and teammates
« on: 17-10-2012, 18:10:55 »
Many don't believe this, but FH2 manages to employ real world squad level tactics.
A player can make a real difference to his side or his team by understanding this and employing it.
Sometimes you may meet a squad just moving in and fragging, and you will dominate them with good squad play, sometimes, you run into what I call 'elites' or paratroopers. Squads using coordinated attacks like you, or coordinating with tanks, aircrafts and mortar. The better squad is the one that sticks to their guns - the tactics they employ.

1. Use VOIP.
Its elementary. Communication cuts through the clutter and allows your teammates to understand what you intend to do or intend them to do. I can't count the number of poorly-led squads I joined and took over leading them simply because I had VOIP.

2. MOVE AS A SQUAD NOT AS A TEAM
But exploit opportunities based on your team's actions
Your team is moving one way, tying up the entire enemy force, exploit this to punch a hole where you are least expected. Your team is being pushed back, plug the gaps and reinforce them by attacking the advancing enemy at their *flanks

*These aren't always clear, but as surely as a unit has a side, an enemy team has a flank, a direction they are not paying attention, position yourself there to cause maximum disruption and give your team a fighting chance.

You will often have multiple objectives. See where your squad is most needed and not where everyone is going. Some times, your squad needs to hold a gap, NOT attack the enemy directly. You'd be amazed how simply realizing a flag is poorly defended results in some serious fights against waves of enemy while the rest of the army is tied doing... absolutely nothing tactically important.

3. Learn to read the map
Sometimes an area is quiet... too quiet. If you can spot that, you can bet an enemy squad frustrated with the ebb and flow knows this too and is about to exploit that area. Expect to run into some good squads on their way somewhere in a hurry. You might just stop a back-cap or a flanking move.

4. Don't play awesome kits, play useful kits
A kit isn't always awesome because it kills a lot of people fast, it is awesome because it kills people well.
A sniper kit may be cool and all, but sometimes, your team needs an mg to prevent enemies moving in one direction. Some times, the team needs artillery badly, and binocs gets you that. Some times, using simply smoke can be better than using a grenade and can break a stalemate and allow your squad or teammates to move in.

5. Know when to stop advancing
You have pushed the enemy all the way back to their final base or have secured half the town and stopped the bleed, but you have only a few tickets left, and so does the enemy. It is not time to attack new flags. You lose more people attacking then defending. It is time to dig in and hold your position. Let the enemy attack you and crash against your defenses. Fix up AT guns and mg positions, move off the flag itself and form a perimeter and let them run THEIR tickets dry.

6. Know when to attack
your squad secures a major flag point that tips the battle. You know the enemy is going to counterrack. Learn to read the battle. The enemy will attack again and again from some hidden squad leader or a number of squads will attack that flag. Don't push into them right after capping. You lose your advantage and leave the fight to be decided by individual player skill - NOT TACTICAL.
Instead, dig in, form a perimeter around your newly acquired flag, and hold off the waves of attack, making sure your Squad leader stays alive.

Eventually, you can tell when the enemy's advance begins to wane. At this point, they have lost the initiative, it is NOW time to take it to them.


7. Making an indestructible defensive line
You are pushing the enemy back on all fronts. Ensure your team has AT kits and mgs and perhaps a mortar or two on all sides. The enemy will try to hit you at various points, even if they don't realize that's what they are doing. If a side lacks the kit to take out a tank, the tank willl drive through them, and infantry will follow. Ensure your line holds.

Use team chat channel to get everyone to realize this, or if you are the commander, inform SLs to tell their men.

Fix up AT guns and mg positions and call in arty to weaken the enemy advances before they form up.
Quickly plug all holes - When an AT goes down, fix it up. Get your men to be aggressive, remaining alive so they can trust that they always have a forward spawn. But hold them from trying to route the enemy or you will expose your flanks or your squad to being overrun on enemy turf.

8.Destroy tanks quickly
When a big tank comes on the scene. DO NOT underestimate the threat. It may be about simply raking scores, but you need to destroy that tank, or it becomes the means for an enemy squad to get in.
The tank forms a rally point for enemy squads, and once they rally, they build up and take the initiative. You want the enemy to NEVER HAVE the initiative. So get someone or yourself to kill that tank fast, so the enemy has to move in without armor support.

But don't be foolhardy in doing so. A tank may have already killed a number of your squadmates, but wait patiently to get that killer shot.
« Last Edit: 17-10-2012, 19:10:16 by djinn »

Offline Turkish007

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Re: How to matter to your squad and teammates
« Reply #1 on: 17-10-2012, 19:10:39 »
Great point, Djinn. FH2 would be a lot better with coordination and teamwork. Teamwork might change the gameplay of a lot of maps, like when you see Mareth Line coming up, you think like: "Meh... Germans gonna win again, like always." But then when you start to play, apparinately the British have established teamwork squads and are storming through the sand dunes and they win at last. This should be how FH2 should be played; with teamwork!

Offline popo

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Re: How to matter to your squad and teammates
« Reply #2 on: 24-10-2012, 03:10:28 »
Is there any guide or anything of sort to set up voip. I have struggled with this issue a lot and couldn't make it work.

On the topic of teamwork one essential communication skill is spotting. Its much easier to get useful information out of map when you know where critical enemies are. Tank 'duels' are often decided by spotters. Besides you are much less likely to get shot when the dreaded killcam doesn't reveal you position since you didn't actually make the initial killing shot.

Offline Steel_Lion_FIN

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Re: How to matter to your squad and teammates
« Reply #3 on: 24-10-2012, 09:10:43 »
I'ts a nice concept, but try to apply this to a full server with ye random pubbies, and they'll probably tell you to F off and play the game like they want, casually derping. It's very unlikely that you could apply this to an entire server, even a team.

Then again, there's the ArmA2 community ShackTac, with the catchphrase "Serious Fun", which makes my argument invalid.
I'd rather play Kimble with my ass!


Offline djinn

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Re: How to matter to your squad and teammates
« Reply #4 on: 24-10-2012, 18:10:57 »
I use this ALL THE TIME, and I wrote this right after leaving 762 on 120 player server.
There were 110 people


I think its a basic lack of faith that FH2 can EVER use real war strategy, but fact is, it DOES.
Weapons are generally used as weapons would be. Not in perfect reality, but the combined effect
is more like the real combined effect than each part is, as are the use of vehicles, so the gameplay follows
similar rules.

For instance, if you are sensitive enough, you WILL notice that the enemy attacks, attacks, attacks,
and if you manage to hold off waves of attacks, their attack fails, because players get tired of attacking the same way and failing. While they regroup to try another apporoach, the initiative is yours.

THAT is realistic strategy.
Its lack of faith in that why people play on the side. Sure you can rake up kills, but you can't both rake up kills and take objectives.
Check out the 2 vids I posted and see how kills can be scored using coordination. It works!

BARRAGE-FLAVOURED  CHARGE
Immediately after an arty barrage, an aggressive attack is more likely to be successful than without.
Simply because, the defenders would be depleted.
Those that survived would have retreated for cover, removing their defensive wall, reducing them to indiviuals.
Their defensive weapons i.e. mgs and AT guns would likely be gone.
*These are most useful on strong defensive points with natural defenses like Gazala, Sidi Bou Zid, Sidi Rezegh's 88 base and Siefge of Tobruk

Coordinate with arty. And try to do a better job than a competent enemy that knows this fact.
It helps when you can maintain the initiative.

BARRAGE-FLAVOURED  RETREAT
On maps like Point du Hoc, where the defensive line is clear and can be held at all points,
when a flag is lost and not open to recapture, retreat under commander arty or close-quarter arty.
It, makes retreating more survivable.
It is good payback to the attackers
It buys you time to regroup
It may eve remove the initiative from attackers that until this point, had it and places the next move firmly in the defenders hands - To counterattack or stop the advance right where the defenders stand.


CHARGE, SMOKE AND CHARGE!E
Very often, a small group of soldiers are holding off a larger force of attackers (This only switches at the last defensive flag). This means, attackers can actually overwhelm defenders by simply charging in.
There is a ratio required for this to be succesful as a rifleman firing a bolt action rifle may not be able to down enough enemy before he is overrun. But an mg might be able to.

Attackers can further increase their chances of charging in using smoke, making themselves less targets until they are almost on top of the enemy. Making their numbers count for everything.

Probe the defensive line first to know where mgs are located, infantry are located and where the fewest number of enemies are holding, then move in charging on that, moving in ahead of your squad leader, who would be smart NOT to dress like a squad leader in such instances.

A well oiled system
If you are playing the role of squad leader, play your men to their best ability.
1. Comms open - Use VOIP if you can, use txt otherwise to make it clear your intentions. most 'Pubbies'  are looking for role-playing too and are happy to play their role.
2. The Spoils - A good leader knows his team survives not just on respect for his rank, but the functionality of his role and the ability to use to get more kills for each player and see more action.
Don't be an absentee-squad leader or go flying in a one-man plane.
3. Sit back and relax - It would take several attempts to break through a defensive line bristling with guns and held by an equally matched squad. It take a smart SL and a good eye to appreciate the flow of the battle and find a safe zone from which to spawn your squad.

Stay hidden and out of the way of sharpshooters, artillery and grenades. But be flexible to keep moving, presenting your men with an increasingly tactical position to attack from, as well as outmanoeuvring an equal competent squad.

If you spend more time dead than anyone else in your squad, you are doing it wrong.

The best SL doesn't die in a firefight. He falls back, flanks the enemy and respawns his squad where they are least expected. And when all fails to breakthrough, he silently falls back; the enemy never the wiser to his presence.

The proof of the pudding is in being able to face an agressive firefight with grenades, a competent squad and a proficient SL, who are constantly looking to exploit weakness or a marauding tank driven by a player who knows his tank only too well... And yet, despite having spawned all your squadmates more than once, being able to survive and prevail.

Be able to defend yourself. A squad leader, a good squad leader, needs to be, himself, a competent soldier who knows how to optimize his terrain and his weapons to his best advantage even taken down 2 or 3 enemies when his entire squad is lost, and hence not losing his foothold.
« Last Edit: 24-10-2012, 18:10:13 by djinn »

Offline Korsakov829

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Re: How to matter to your squad and teammates
« Reply #5 on: 24-10-2012, 18:10:15 »
...Many don't believe this, but FH2 manages to employ real world squad level tactics....

I can't help but disagree with this, 'real world' might not be the words for it.

Offline djinn

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Re: How to matter to your squad and teammates
« Reply #6 on: 24-10-2012, 18:10:44 »
Ok, perhaps 'realistic'?

Its not exactly arbitrary game tactics here though.
I think flanking, absorbing an enemy attack and pushing into them are indicative of 'real world' though
« Last Edit: 24-10-2012, 19:10:21 by djinn »


Offline djinn

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Re: How to matter to your squad and teammates
« Reply #8 on: 25-10-2012, 10:10:53 »
Point being?

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: How to matter to your squad and teammates
« Reply #9 on: 25-10-2012, 11:10:25 »
Point being?

"If you want teamwork join a tournament"

Sad when even the devs themselves have that mindset... No wonder FH2 public play can never change...
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline djinn

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Re: How to matter to your squad and teammates
« Reply #10 on: 25-10-2012, 11:10:11 »
Let's not generalize it.
Personally, I won't even dignify that with a response.
I actually play online enough to know what I'm talking about - Not just theory. ::)

Offline x4fun ODIUM

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Re: How to matter to your squad and teammates
« Reply #11 on: 25-10-2012, 11:10:28 »
There, imho, lies one of the (few) true values of a ranking system.
It shows you how long players have been around. Don't follow a private into battle.

Look for squads that have a seasoned NCO (Sgt. upwards) or even better an officer as squadleader.
You will see the difference.

Also it seems to be a pattern, that people who care for teamwork assign names to their squads.
Some have even become a trademark.
Lookout for Blowjob, Mettkeks, Ösiforce [ >:) ], Bastards, Sisu, Teamwork, etc.
You will see the difference and get much more out of FH2 public play.

I refuse to believe that a tournament is the only place to apply coordinated tactics.
Have 2 squads work together and, if possible, make good use of their tanks -
and you can turn a whole public match.
Kind Regards / MfG
x4fun I<ODIUM>I


Offline djinn

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Re: How to matter to your squad and teammates
« Reply #12 on: 25-10-2012, 11:10:12 »
There, imho, lies one of the (few) true values of a ranking system.
It shows you how long players have been around. Don't follow a private into battle.

Look for squads that have a seasoned NCO (Sgt. upwards) or even better an officer as squadleader.
You will see the difference.

Also it seems to be a pattern, that people who care for teamwork assign names to their squads.
Some have even become a trademark.
Lookout for Blowjob, Mettkeks, Ösiforce [ >:) ], Bastards, Sisu, Teamwork, etc.
You will see the difference and get much more out of FH2 public play.

I refuse to believe that a tournament is the only place to apply coordinated tactics.
Have 2 squads work together and, if possible, make good use of their tanks -
and you can turn a whole public match.

And see, why I know THIS^ is worth its weight in words is because I have played in the same squad as the guy.
« Last Edit: 25-10-2012, 12:10:56 by djinn »

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: How to matter to your squad and teammates
« Reply #13 on: 25-10-2012, 15:10:08 »
In my opinion, it doesn't matter that you communicate, it matters how you communicate. The key is fast and precise communication and to see when you have to apply a certain strategy. You can have thousends of predefined strategies but if you fail to use them in the proper situations, they are worthless.

Speed and flexibilty is the real point that matters. Time is money and the same applies in FH2. I talked to a guy who plays with us in TS from time to time and next to this for FlH. He prefers playing with us for our fast communication and situational awareness. The point is, that you don't play with vets only in the tournaments. You play with newcomers aswell and not every player has the same skill and knows each other. Afaik is there a chain of command in FlH and WaW. The problem is that this chain of command only applies for those tournaments. This means, you can come there as a vet with hundreds of hours of FH2 and get treated as a privat by a guy who has less experience in FH2 than you. I don't want to generalize this for all players in the tourneys, but just showing that they are not the only and golden way for teamwork in FH2.

I love it playing public. I invite the right people in my squad, people I know and remember. People who like to communicate and where I know that those people have a certain skill, that is usefull for my squad. That's the point of playing via TS or VOIP. Playing with people you know. You know their strength and their weakness. I play alot with very skilled players like Horstpetersens who can be a one man army on his own. But they become even better if you communicate with them and work as a team according to their skills. This means using the minimap alot, alot, alot, alot and alot and communicating the positions of enemies/what they are (tank, inf, plane etc) and the numbers. That's the first half of the bill. The individual skill does the rest ... or not  ;D

So next time, join the mighty Wurstkeks squad ;)

Offline djinn

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Re: How to matter to your squad and teammates
« Reply #14 on: 25-10-2012, 15:10:11 »
I realize it doesn't matter WHO I invite to my squad.
Granted some people play a tad more retarded. I've once had someone firing zooka rounds at a Panther when it was clearly impossible to do any more than give our position away, but they DO recognize the overall plan soon enough.

I've only kicked someone from my squad once.
Like I said, I realize most people who play FH2 over other titles WANT to enjoy coordinated teamplay etc.
The aparatus is just a bit crude to do so, so it takes figuring it out from years of play and experience.

What I outlined are simply those I realize work almost every game session almost irrespective of whom.
Sure, often enough someone doesn't care to play as a team, but generally, I'd at least get 2 squad mates following, and sooner rather than later, the rest realize that I present a tactical advantage and forward point for them to get more kills etc. And sooner rather than later, they are willing to listen to orders. Because they 'get it'. Its more fun for them too.

I just hope I can record one of these experiences to silence the doubters that teamplay IS a better option.
The best squads on the battlefield don't just kill faster or more, they do so because they work together better. Take a server and watch for yourself.

Individual might pwn, but makes little impact on the whole proceedings.
« Last Edit: 25-10-2012, 15:10:10 by djinn »