Author Topic: Deployable anti tank guns  (Read 1808 times)

Offline Oberst

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 854
    • View Profile
Deployable anti tank guns
« on: 29-01-2011, 01:01:11 »
Today the idea came into my mind, that anti tank guns could be made somehow deployable by the individual player, like the mg lafettes, and not just spawn at dedicated locations. I my opinion it would even match with the tactical dimension of the game.

This would represent the fact, that most armies had in a batallion a dedicated support company or even antitank company, which gave the heavy antitank support. I remember, that I even read somewhere, that the US Army had an antitank-platoon in every company. (Now I hope VM or whoever with more knowlegde on miliary doctines of the individual armies joins this thread and proves, that i am not totally wrong).

Basic thoughts:
Of course this would change balance of some maps, but noone ever said i has to be on every map. But there would also be some maps like Aberdeen, where a pak on the right place could balance them. Also the imbalance caused by the deployed at gun depends on which gun is deployed on what map. A Pak40 in a good position in an africa map would mean overkill, while a 6pounder in normandy in the right place could be still be a thread to german tankers, but a blessing to your own team.

The next thing, which could be seen positive, but also negative, this would solve the mobility problem of the pushed guns by still being vulnerable to enemy infantry or HE fire.

Also more mobile guns would make it a little bit more difficult to attack a flag, as you cant know, where the at-gun is. Yeah, I know hear some of you calling "Its still hard to take a flag, why make it even harder". I just got three answers, It would be more difficult to HE behind the fogrange, with the situation with pushable at-guns at the moment, it isnt much different. you can't always predict where they are and last but not least: I am just thinking, this is suggestion forums.

And of course as a new gameplay featrure, there a ways to abuse/exploit it, by deploying a group of guns, or deploying them behind enemy lines....
Another thing to balance it, we have to think about, if the deployed guns should be pushable or stationary like a lafette.

To implement this, I thought about three possibilities, each with its pros and cons.
1. An Antitank pickup-kit

This would basicly work like the mortar or lafette kits already in the game. You pick up the kit, move to the place, where you want the gun, then deploy it.
Cons: It would be possible, of course difficult, to sneak behind enemy lines, deploy it behind some tanks and shoot them. But without support, you would be still vulnerable to enemy infantry and it would be (depending on the map of course) still be difficult to get to a good location. But dont forget u can move at the moment behind enemy lines and use their weapons/guns against them, so it would not change that much.
The last danger i see is a possible exploit in the system by standing next to an ammo crate an deploying gun are gun, this could be partly prohibit by a long resupply time.

2. A truck spawns it (if possible)
A truck, like the ammo truck, would spawn a at-gun be pressing right mouse button like the ammo boxes from the ammo truck.
This would match best, to represent the weight of at-guns and the need of transport vehicles. with a truck it also would be impossible to sneak behind enemy lines, as you are vulnerable even to rifle fire.
Danger of exploit by ammotruck and at-gun-truck combination.

3. droplable by commander
This system would basicly use the car-dropping system of bf2. The commander would send a gun to the troops where requested. This has the least eploit danger, as there could only be 2 or 3 dropped cars on a map in vBF at the same time, so i am sure the number even could be lowered.

I hope after reading, u got the point. And I am sure this wasn't suggested before, as I am watching the forums for years now. And i hope my english is not that bad.

=dmk= Oberst S.

PS: I even see some people coming back with: Bring the lIG 18 or something.

Offline VonMudra

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 8.248
  • FH2 Betatester/Verdun Team Researcher
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #1 on: 29-01-2011, 02:01:09 »
First off, an anti-tank platoon was armed with anti-tank rifles, and then rocket propelled AT weapons/spring propelled (see PIAT).  They were not armed with the cannon, which were regulated to specialized tank destroyer companies, which varied in size, usage, and level of command (I know germans placed them as the 14th company in a regiment).

Secondaly, you simply won't see a single person running around and then suddenly deploying a giant cannon.  Especially not a Pak40, what is he, carrying it in his pocket?  The thing I see is that all AT guns should be mobile, and light AT guns (50mm and smaller) should move at a faster clip, with 37mm Pak guns being able to jog with (having done this in real life, it is fully possible to jog with a Pak36 when you have at least 4 guys on it).

Next, on truck spawning.  That is a possibility, but has been mentioned before.  Hard to say if it'll ever be ingame.  I know that one dev tested a system of towing, however it was incredibly buggy and didn't really work well at all.

On droppable by commander, I would absolutely approve of this for the appropriate map, EG, Kreta, where Pak36 and recoiless rifles were air dropped by tandam parachutes.

Basically, right now, the devs design a map that has AT guns to only have this certain number, and to only be used in certain ways.  Its part of keeping the flow and structure of the gameplay.  Whilst air dropped AT guns and recoiless rifles would be beautiful on Kreta to back up a rather weak german side, elsewhere they would be rather unrealistic.  A truck deploying system would be much easier to work into gameplay, however would need to operate correctly, IE, what happens if the truck deploys it in too small of an area?  BF2 physics would generally mean it bounces around aimlessly and explodes, or otherwise glitches out.  I've seen lafettes floating 50 feet in the air before.

Now, if you want to discuss speed of mobile AT guns, there is a spot that should see some changes.  While a Pak40 would def move at a very slow speed, the Pak36, and other light AT guns (coughrussian45mmforostfrontcough) were able to be moved at quite a reasonable clip, especially with dragstraps for the crew.

Offline SchwererGustav

  • I belong to Naughty Club
  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #2 on: 29-01-2011, 02:01:07 »
First of i don't care what Mudra think, point two i like the idea to make Pak etc. pick up spawn kits that way you will never know as tanker where the pak is and so you will have much more real situations.  ;D

Offline Torenico

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.632
  • ┬íViva la Revoluci├│n!
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #3 on: 29-01-2011, 03:01:09 »
Yeah bro, i can also carry a pak43 in my pocket.

No Mortar-Like kits, but with PaKs, no terrible idea. Towed by trucks, suggested many times before but, i dont know. Commander Droppable kinda good, in specific maps and small assets like PaK36s and stuff.


Offline flyboy_fx

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.132
  • rockets,rc stuff,and collecting/making ww2 models
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #4 on: 29-01-2011, 03:01:41 »
This thread fails...

Wtf... That is why there are movable paks...  I wish there where more though.
Don't hate the forum, hate it's users...


Offline SchwererGustav

  • I belong to Naughty Club
  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #5 on: 29-01-2011, 03:01:28 »
Mmh, i know that you can move Paks BUT like on Goodwood you can never bring them to the position where you wan't them with this feature you can put them fast where you want, so it make a big diffrence when you roll them at 5km/h or if you put it in pos in a sec after runin to that point... i wouldt like to see that its a step in the right direction i think ;)

Offline VonMudra

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 8.248
  • FH2 Betatester/Verdun Team Researcher
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #6 on: 29-01-2011, 03:01:46 »
Mmh, i know that you can move Paks BUT like on Goodwood you can never bring them to the position where you wan't them with this feature you can put them fast where you want, so it make a big diffrence when you roll them at 5km/h or if you put it in pos in a sec after runin to that point... i wouldt like to see that its a step in the right direction i think ;)

Never had a prob moving the Pak40s in goodwood into position.  And making a guy run around aimlessly then insta-spawn a Pak40 magically is not a direction for this mod to take.  Next you're gonna say that it takes too long to drive a tiger tank, so you should be able to deploy it out of your pocket too.  ::)
« Last Edit: 29-01-2011, 05:01:32 by VonMudra »

Offline SchwererGustav

  • I belong to Naughty Club
  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #7 on: 29-01-2011, 04:01:53 »
Play the Game and stop talking about it  :-\

Offline Rumia

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
  • Apparitions Stalk the Night
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #8 on: 29-01-2011, 05:01:17 »

Commander Droppable kinda good, in specific maps and small assets like PaK36s and stuff.
THIS

Offline SchwererGustav

  • I belong to Naughty Club
  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #9 on: 29-01-2011, 05:01:25 »
I like that too, drop able Paks it makes the Com more appreciated.
But i still like the Pak at ones feature i would like to see it for bouth it makes the def more stronger and this is a good point in the actuell gameplay i think 8)
« Last Edit: 29-01-2011, 05:01:04 by SchwererGustav »

Offline hankypanky

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 645
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #10 on: 29-01-2011, 08:01:14 »
I like the idea of air dropped commander assets, it would make commander more appealing. 
My ingame name is [PUG]mr.hanky1945

Offline THeTA0123

  • The north remembers
  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 16.842
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #11 on: 29-01-2011, 10:01:33 »
Yeah bro, i can also carry a pak43 in my pocket.

No Mortar-Like kits, but with PaKs, no terrible idea. Towed by trucks, suggested many times before but, i dont know. Commander Droppable kinda good, in specific maps and small assets like PaK36s and stuff.
Crete(75mm german Recoilles rifle thingies), PDH(37mm guns)...

And many more
-i am fairly sure that if they took porn off the internet, there would only be one website left and it would be called bring back the porn "Perry cox, Scrubs.

Offline psykfallet

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 578
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #12 on: 29-01-2011, 12:01:20 »
well those suggestions arent new so I can only conclude that its hard/impossible to implement commander dropped guns



Offline Kradovech

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 447
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #13 on: 29-01-2011, 12:01:54 »
We already have deployable mortars, so I don't see why not. Maybe not as kit though, make it be deployable by trucks or halftracks. That would be more realistic than commander drops as well I guess.

Edit: Oh darn, should have read the first post instead of jumping to mudras replies :P. Well, option number 2 then.
« Last Edit: 29-01-2011, 12:01:52 by Kradovech »

Offline hankypanky

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 645
    • View Profile
Re: Deployable anti tank guns
« Reply #14 on: 29-01-2011, 17:01:12 »
Come on guys simply labeling everything as HARDCODED or impossible is simply silly. Look at all the other hardcoded barriers that have been broken.... Such as mobile arty and 128 players. If there is a good solution I'm sure the devs will be able to work it out.
My ingame name is [PUG]mr.hanky1945