New players opinion on weapons.

[Kalkalash]

-Reduce recoil.  most drastically on standing up, still.  but also on crouched and prone
-improve the handling of guns when not 'iron sited'
-reduce iron site recoil
-reduce recoil cooldown from "max spread" to "focused".  another words, the recoil takes too long to go from "omg don't shoot" to you are okay to shoot an accurate shot.  Player recovering from sprint to accurate shot is way too long.
-reduce recoil cooldown time from sprinting/walking to stopping
-increase transparency of muzzle flash.  Guns aren't that blinding.

Recoil can be easily adjusted just by moving your mouse down when shooting. It's quite easy to control with a bit of practice.

I think you might be confusing recoil and deviation/spread with each other. If you are running and stop and you switch to ironsights, the shot will be as accurate as if you had been standing there all along. The only time you get deviation is after jumping or proning. By improving gun handling when not iron sighted you mean more accuracy? Hip firing should be quite inaccurate at longer ranges. For shorter ranges it is already quite easy to shoot targets with SMGs and rifles.

-increase effective range x1.5 or even 2x and see how it goes.  
-increase magazine count +2 or +3

SMGs are already quite effective at medium ranges. They are already quite close to shooting people at fog range on some maps, so extra range might make them too overpowered. Now, I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think that the amount of clips guns have is quite close to the historical amount.

-add a fairly transparent tracer round 1/8 or so in smgs.
         The idea may not be historically accurate but players perception on where a bullet is traveling can be very very misleading.  A tracer helps focus on where a player is shooting.  Even this could actually fix a problem with people criticizing the smgs.  Remember, we are playing a game.  Perception is a big factor.

Again, bullets go where your sight is pointing at except when hip firing.

-include more ammunition places a player can get more.  At least 1 per flag on all official maps.  lack of ammo can be seriously annoying.
-allow ammo from half tracks & transport vehicles
-Increase accuracy while strafing
-increase damage all around
-reduce recoil on bipod *deployed* MG's including bren, bar & 42.    feels way too high.
-remove rear site on BAR deployed

Half trucks already resupply and personally I've very rarely run out of ammo on any gun. It has happened perhaps once of twice, and usually with a machinegun.

Damage is already good, 3 bullets to torso to kill and 1-2 to head.

Recoil with MGs is fine, especially Bren and BAR both have quite little recoil. MG42 on the other hand kicks like a donkey but it is easy to control, and it already is a lethal killing machine. Reducing recoil would only make more powerful from what it is now.

BAR is quite deadly when deployed, and the obstructive sight balances it a bit.

-fix the standing up with a deployed gun staying deployed on stand up.  Feels like a bug.  the player must then prone and then 'undeploy' to get out of that mode. Seems very redundant.
-reduce the motion bob on proning with a bipod.  
-decrease time it takes to load a rifle grenade.  Player seems as if he is at the shooting range and not at a war.

By motion bob do you mean the swinging? I kinda like it. Some people say that it makes them motion sick, I don't get that effect though.

Rifle grenades are already annoying and people spam them without reason already. Making the reload faster is definitely not needed.

[djinn]

With regard to the mg get up animation, it was an attempt by Kev, I think, to bring the Fh2 game more to the current game generation by adding next-generation animations.

They however reduced others like the head bob in a dash. I personally like it - And it follows the COD, Crysis gameplay. However it does stand out due its vast difference from say run animation which is VERY BF2 with the gun swinging in its own axis with little regard to the human perspective.

A dev decision - I dont judge, and I'd like it either way


I would say, even, have LESS riflenades. They wanted to marry 2 kits, which I appreciate, but then, I want to feel WWIII more than the kit would let me. Make it a common pickup kit

We used to extra regular kits littered everywhere, especially bren guns, now in later maps, only special kits. I think the regular pickup kits should come back in Normandy and in the bulge, so that you can have alot of riflegrenades, but alot fewer than currently, because frankly it takes me out of immersion when every dude and his mom has one.

[Oberst]

And bring back the Bren-Gun-Rambo Mode from 2.15! I want to own them all in hip firing!!

Ok, seriously: I like the SMG like they are in the game right now. I do well with them. On close range you are the master in combat as it should be, on medium range you can use them still equally to rifles and atleast for little fire support, at every range beyond just forget it to face an enemy and try to get closer.

In a COD Game every weapon feels the same for me. Of course there are slight differences, which you recognize after some hours playing the game and can take advantage of, but most times it feels just like the same weapon with a different model.

....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFUgA0t5SCI

Cheers and don't worry.

This^^


Improvements can be done and should be done always, when possible. So I doesnt sound bad, when Eat announce that SMG get a little boost. And thats a good idea.

I barely see the SMG-class unused. That mainly happens on maps and situation, where long range weapons get a clear advantage. Like the beginning of big vehicle maps like cobra or totalize or whatever. Ones the situation changes to close range combat, the people begin to use the SMG class.


To some of your points:
Ammo: On nearly every map there is an ammo box at every flag; You already get ammo from (half) trucks; You also get ammo from every deployable weapon like machine gun lafettes and mortars.

Strafing: Strafing is the most unnatural way of moving you can think of. In my opinion it should be banned at all. It just looks awfull, when you see two guys doing their "dance of death" when they strafing and jumping around each other.

Rifle nades: I never have done this in real life, but i can imagine that it takes even under training conditions several seconds to load them. You have to attach the adapter to your rifle, than load a blank catridge and put the nade on it. This all with a handy rifle, which is about a meter long. In combat conditions it might be even longer. The sitiuation is fine at the moment as rifle nades are really powefull. So the reload time is also a balance decision.

MGs: I agree on your opinion on Mgs though, especially on bren and BAR, which should get a little boost in deployed  mode.

Increasing the Range and damage:
At the moment it takes:
Pistols/Smg: 2-3 shots
Carbing/StG44: 1 and a half
rifles, MG: 1
hit(s) in the chest to kill someone. I dont see your point, what we can increase without destroying the differences between this classes of weapons.

Player counts of Forgotten Hope:
I dont see, that FH loses players more and more; We had never had so many players before. Take this weekend for example. On saturday evening (european) there was one tournament going (64ppl), next there were 2 full servers(2x 64 ppl) and one server with around 20 ppl, which makes more than 200 ppl playing at one moment! Thats very much for FH. Next take the player count on the 762 ranking, which counts more than 35000 players in total, whcih played FH.
Last fact take the people who are joining the forums and posting that they are new and enjoy this mod!

My two cents on some of your points
Oberst

PS: I have faith in the Developers making the right decision; Keep the work going!

[THeTA0123]

Yes. Both bren and BAR still need work

The bren is way to inaccurate when undeployed on hip fire or ADS. And when deployed.... sorry but you miss every shot

I havent been the only one complaining about this

[Ts4EVER]

In 2.3 smgs are clearly underpowered. This has a bunch of reasons, although imo not so much recoil. As that one video demonstrated, recoil is easily countered by the player and is imo one of the best features in the mod, as I hate the random deviation type of measures.

Anyway, the main reasons for smgs underpoweredness:
- Rifles are one shot kill and it is too easy to snap shot people in close quarters combat
- smgs take too many bullets to kill in comparison

Some months ago I did research for internal testing and I found that smgs are indeed underused compared to other limited weapons, especially on maps where semi automatic rifles are available. Even on maps like Brest, often not all smg spots are used. This is more apparent with the .45 cal smgs in American maps, due to the amount of american semi autos (especially M1 Carbine), while 9mm smgs are usually more popular. the least used one is the Greasegun, as it combines semi auto alternative availability with a low firing rate, negating the one big selling point smgs have.

@thread starter (in case you guys haven't flamed him away for good yet): It is true that all weapons in Fh2 should ideally be fun to use. Since it was noticed how that was not really the case for smgs, measures were taken. Generally however, your definition of "fun" gunplay seems somewhat limited. When I read things like "more accuracy on strafing" I can't help but thinking of the kind of running and gunning from team fortress 2 or something, which is certainly not what the devs are going for (although the claim by forum members that Fh2 is particularly "realism oriented" is greatly exaggerated).

[THeTA0123]

yes, the .45ACP SMGS are largely ignored. The 9mm MP40 and sten are way more easier to use

Its pretty difficult to accurate fire with an .45ACP
I somewhat got the M3 Greasegun under controll, but the thompson remains impossible for me to master

Its just simply better now to grab a 9mm SMG then a .45ACP, because most of the times, the 9mm wins. Even Semi auto rifles like the carbine are easier to use then a .45ACP SMG

the only thing the .45ACP can do better, is to take semi auto, and use it like a carbine

[MaJ.P.Bouras]

MP40>Thompson>Sten>pistol>worms>dirt>Grease gun

is for me

[THeTA0123]

I still take the greasegun over the thompson any day, The thompson is just impossible to control

[Oberst]

The M1 Thompson is my favorite, it is difficult to be mastered, but this is my favorite SMG. High rate of fire combined with .45 cal. I love to play Squadleader on the allies site jsut for that weapon.


(Ok Beretta beats them all, but hey: Italian bias, we need more of it!)

[DaWorg!]

To me, MG's and SMG's are good as they are. Just SMG's could have more damage. It's annoying to spray the enemy in CQB hitting him 4-5 times, just to him turn around and oneshot me with rifle. I know its only pistol ammo but still, no one should survive that in combat ready state.


P.S. I noticed, that almost every new guy who post something about guns in suggestions never appears on 2nd page after the flame that his post caused

[Ciupita]

SMGs are great. BAR sucks.

About American players... Seriously, every goddamn FPS game is lacking american players even though it's full of US hype. There is nearly double amount of europeans, always.

Reason for this? MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE NOT INTERESTED IN FPS GAMES! They play more games like World of Warcraft. Live with it.

[BATTERIESc]

Djinn said something which makes the game so enjoyable for me. All of the smgs are different. Each weapon has its own characteristics and feel to them.
Personally I think smgs are fine. The work well at close range where they are meant to be used. If an enemy is at mid range try single shots and at long range dont even bother shooting at him if you find it difficult.
Smg's are fine. I mean the beretta is excellent even at long range I find.
Your point on automatics I might have to agree with a little. The bren and the BAR are somewhat finnicky compared to other weapons. BAR deployed is almost entirely useless imo because of obstructive sights, and Bren sometimes I cant hit anything and other times it works great so its a little strange.

[DaWorg!]

And what you guys think about SMG damage? I can't help myself, in damage they are undepowered.

[BATTERIESc]

Most of the time if you hit with a burst and are on target the first and second will hit because of small recoil to second shot, then you need just 1 more if you havent hit head already. Its ok  ;

[Comrade Roe]

I suppose Thompsons are a deal underpowered, everything else I don't mind the way they are.