Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Singleplayer and Coop => Topic started by: Drawde on 08-07-2010, 22:07:53

Title: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Drawde on 08-07-2010, 22:07:53
DOWNLOAD LINK - AI minimod (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pinniger/games/FH2AITweaks1.3beta3.zip)
DOWNLOAD LINK - Map tweaks (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pinniger/games/FH2MapTweaks1.0b.zip)


(NEW VERSION UPLOADED 24/7/10)


This contains quite a few fixes since the last version, both large (AI firing howitzers) and small (planes less likely to strafe tanks). It's still definitely a BETA version as there are some serious issues not yet fixed (such as bots not firing small arms at exposed vehicle crew) and I haven't really playtested it enough to check for CTDs and map-specific issues.

Any feedback on CTDs, particularly repeatable ones, would be welcome!

Installing the map tweaks minimod is highly recommended, as you'll need to install it to use the SP-only artillery with raised gunner viewpoint. It also has a lot of changes to the map AI scripts, fixes to the "commander spam bug", etc. It's currently very unfinished, many maps don't have custom AI scripts yet, but all those that do are tested and working correctly (to my knowledge)

Installation may be a tricky job for anyone not used to working with BF2 mod archives (you need to open each map's server.zip and add the mod files to it), but I don't really have the webspace/bandwidth to upload a version containing the full server.zip archives for every map (really ought to try using a filesharing site rather than my own webspace) If anyone wants to make a "compiled" version available, feel free!

Feedback on the map mod (probably best in a separate thread) would also be welcome - I'd particularly like to know if the commander spam bug is still present on any maps!
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: djinn on 08-07-2010, 22:07:06
Halleluja!!!! Gotta try this immediately! thanks Drawde!

few early notes:
The POV of the NA British Howitzer is not raised :-( as is the case with the American Howitzer. The Normandy Brit howitzer seems to have an issue too. Although it has raised POV, it can no longer swivel, even with me on it. It raises, and lowers, but it cannot swivel... The ties turn but the gun doesn't


I also think you might want to try the Stuka divehorn I posted on my DL space... Not sure if you have... Since FH2 doesn't currently have a Stuka divehorn with a distant sound variant making the horn sounding more than just a single note, the FH1 which at least gives the change in pitch might be an interesting factor to consider...

I'm loving the Stuka now though, and tank combat, especially in Cobra, is quite vicious now... a-lOv-iit!


I did also note in Supercharge, the commander AI still gives the same orders as before i.e. attack bases far off in the rear (For brits) and spamming the radio with defense commands for the Germans.

Will give more feedback when I try it out more

EDIT: I may need to redo the level patch just to make sure, but it seems some maps have functional arty, while others don't. Arty in Seige of Tobruk is very effective, while the same arty in Superchaqrge i.e. the Brits' doesn't even see as far as the next base.

Did you get to fix mortars fire at infantry cuz they seem to do so as much as they fire at tanks :-)

I did note something odd. The mortar on Tobruk was firing at Germans coming off the ridge as relentlessly as always, but whenI manned the gun, it didn't have raised POV at all... Was that deliberate cuz that would be tres cool i.e making bots see higher, but players limited to what is in Conquest... Same went for the nebelwerfer, which is just a dream come true.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: djinn on 09-07-2010, 16:07:26
I take it all back. The Stuka divehorn sound from AIX pwns! I tried using the FH1 sound and it sounded alot softer and it didn't last long enough, cutting off after only a few seconds. This one on the other hand just scares the hell out of me, even when I'm on the axis side.... The final choice was when i realized the FH1 sound was weaker sounding than the Hurricane engine sound... This one on the other hand is distinctly Stuka

I still note that most forms of artillery have lowered LOS i.e not 15m higher. Still not sure if its just for the player's benefit, with bots benefiting fromt the increased range, or some of them are indeed lowered.

Now I need to check out why some guns, like those on Alam Halfa i.e the German ones don't seem to see the Allied gun positions to fire at them. They actually seem to aim since I've noted that guns don't raise or lower their cannon until they can see something... kinda like infantry pulling out a knife for seemingly no reason

Also noted that, while AT guns seem fine with tanks, even when having to fire prone, they are hopeless against infantry even at close range.

Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Raziel on 09-07-2010, 17:07:24
Great job Drawde!! Thanks....will install your patches and will post feedback asap

Edit 1:a) Tested Cobra...howitzers manned but didn't see them fire (probably because americans had taken windmill and started taking over the city) Need to test in more detail.

b) Tested Crete: Woooaahh: Great job on the Stuka siren....at one time I was manning a Vickers gun and I heard the siren approachin then the whistle of the bombs falling. Epic!! - I confess: I flinched just before bombs impacted.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Remick04 on 09-07-2010, 20:07:01
Excellent work Drawde... well I haven’t played much yet, but I'm assuming it’s excellent, because I can't imagine it’s anything less.

I was going to ask how to add the ai friendly artillery to maps, so I can do so for future maps and maps I'm currently working on, but I figured it out for myself. It's as simple as going into the gameplayobjects.con and replacing the artillery with the '_AI' version. So, '81mm_mortar_m1' becomes '81mm_mortar_m1_AI' and 'lefh18' becomes 'lefh18_AI'... etc. I did notice not all the maps have the ai friendly artillery in, but that’s forgivable given I can't imagine how much work went into just getting things this far.

I'm going to wait to pass this along to the devs until all the wrinkles are ironed out. I may need to make some alterations to make things compatible, but I want to avoid stepping on your work or rendering all the time you've put into this obsolete. So if I do make any alterations I'll post the altered files here first so you can see them before I pass them along. If that's ok with you.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: djinn on 09-07-2010, 21:07:35
@ Remick
You might also want the devs to consider the way this Stuka works, including the exact sound. The Stuka Drawde adapted doesn't need to turn out its divehorn, but the horn turns on automatically at high speed i.e in a dive.

Ofcourse, since bots don't dive steeply enough, Drawde tweaked it to turn on at a gentle dive speed - So a non _AI version, if the devs choose to adapt it, could have it set to come on at a steeper dive.... It certainly beats what we currently have in Multiplayer both because of the sound, but also because it turns the horn automatically, as it should

The main credit goes to Clivewil, who's work Drawde adapted....


Its nice to see everyone seeing this.... Especially reassuring to know that all this might find a way into the official version.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Toddel on 10-07-2010, 09:07:16
FH2 Stuka Horn works how it is because the STUKA in the Old plane Physics never reached a speed where the Horn could start automaticly. Could be that this is better now.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: cannonfodder on 10-07-2010, 10:07:46
 8)

...If anyone wants to make a "compiled" version available, feel free!...
I might just do that. I'll have a look at it tomorrow, then I'll update the sticky.



I take it all back. The Stuka divehorn sound from AIX pwns!...
Nothing induces terror and panic quite like that wail growing ever-louder when you're on the ground... :)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Frysian on 10-07-2010, 13:07:23
Thanks! i'll give it a try on my server! :)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Drawde on 10-07-2010, 21:07:55
I definitely prefer the AIX Stuka sound to the FH1 one, it's a much longer continuous sound and changes pitch according to the plane's speed (rather than the pitch change being part of the sound file). It sounds a bit odd if the .WAV file is played outside the game, but the in-game effect sounds spot on. I think the volume/distance fade effect still needs tweaking, though.

The US artillery on Cobra definitely doesn't fire, unfortunately, not sure why as it ought to have line of sight to the farmhouse.

I haven't updated the artillery objects on all the maps (Anctoville, Lebisey, Villers Bocage etc.) but all of the standard 2.26 SP maps, plus those added by Remick04, should be included in the 1.0 map patch. Not all of them have fully updated/fixed AI strategy scripts, though.

For the next version I'll make SP-only versions of the Stuka with the automatic dive siren. Not sure if it would be better for the MP versions to either have the original key-activated siren, or use the same AIX code with the velocity threshold increased, so it only activates in steep dives (as it should realistically, but bots very rarely do steep dives - so the threshold needs to be lower for SP)?

To Djinn - It sounds like you haven't installed the map patch correctly (no AI artillery, commander spam on Supercharge, etc.) Hopefully if cannonfodder can make a compiled map mod available, this will make it a lot easier to install.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: djinn on 11-07-2010, 02:07:01
Wierd... I had AI arty and mortar for singleplayer versions of all the maps we've been working on,plus 2.0 maps, but not in their COOP versions (Which is what I generally play). So I  had to copy '_AI' to maps like Gazala, Mersa Matru, Alam Halfa and Cobra. It also seems like the Normandy version opf the British 25pdr has an issue. I only tried them in Goodwood and noted their tyres move, but the gun doesn't rotate. it raises and lowers, but it can't rotate left of right... Anyone else note this? Both in SP and COOP Goodwood.

Didn't note firing from it at all in Totalize, nor did I sit on it to check sadly...


Again, did you manage to get the arty to somehow fire from 15feet up while remaining at normal view for the player? In some versions, its clearly noted as being 15 feet elevated, but in others it isn't, yet the bots use it as thought it were and the files confirm that it is... Examples are in Seige of Tobruk's mortar.

Don't listen to me about the Stuka... AIX sound is perfect! Bots dive best in Mersa Matru for some reason, and least of all in Olympus and Alam Halfa

Only other comment I have besides the Normandy 25pdr is that you should see that all maps with custom stuff like the arty and Stuka get a separate type from MP, and work both in COOP and SP...

Nice additions you made... The increased length of spawn for guns, seriously more agressive tanks and aircrafts and the VW Beatle... I feel like I'm playing a more organised form of Conquest :-)

Will still try and see if we can get bots to fly higherand dive steeper... A long shot, but kinda like getting arty firing further i.e a more foward 15feet view, or somehow raising it higher than 15feet... still worth considering...

EDIT:
Noted that while static mortars use the elevated POV, deployable ones do not. Also, there is still no love for deployable mgs. I think given it the same 'heat' as static mortars might improve the bots like for them, especially the .30 cal
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Raziel on 11-07-2010, 16:07:31
Continuing my review.
Drawde these are not complains. Far from it. I really admire your work and the fact that you are giving Splayer in FH2 much needed life!

Totalize:
6 pounder: manned and firing

25 pounder: Elevated view but no Yaw movements. (As Djinn said Dials move but cannon is fixed)

Nebelwerfer: Fires + doesn't hit windmill. Rockets fly past windmill. (Goodjob!)

Quite a number of bots idling at main base.

I've noted that even though flags are capped bots still spawn at main after they are killed

Lots of Commander spam on Axis side.

El Alamein

Mortars Firing by both Brits + Axis

25 pounder at Brit Main Base manned (unfortunately I didn't see it fire)

Mileiriya Ridge flag capped (Brit to Axis) but map still shows British flag.

Bots repairing my tank  :)

Bots spawning on me (On totalize they didn't)

Bots using VW! Epic!
All in all GREAT job!
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Drawde on 11-07-2010, 21:07:37
Turns out the map patch problem was my fault, I only updated the SP mode files for most maps and forgot to copy them into the Co-Op mode folder as well! - so the co-op files are either unmodified or very out of date compared to the SP ones. I'll fix this ASAP (within the next week at least).

Also will have a look at the Normandy 25pdr issue - I suspect this is a bug with the non-AI/SP version of the gun, as I think the SP one worked OK the last time I tried it.

Only the gunner's viewpoint (and the ranging dials) are elevated, the shots themselves are fired from the barrel as normal. I think the ranging/spotting code also uses the barrel as a reference point, rather than the gunner's viewpoint.

The El Alamein 25pdr is probably just too far away from the enemy lines to fire - artillery gunner bots are still limited by the AI's sight range. If the Germans got as far as the British forward base (they never have when I've played this map) it might fire.

The raised viewpoint doesn't - as far as I can see - increase the spotting range for the AI, it only allows them to see over terrain and obstacles blocking their line of sight. For an artillery weapon which already has a good vantage point (e.g. the mortar on Kidney Ridge, El Al) it makes little or no difference to how effectively the AI uses it.

I'll get round to adding AI versions of deployable mortars sooner or later, this requires a bit more coding than the fixed ones so I left it out for this one. Increased AI priority for deployable MGs is also doable, but will require new AI files for these weapons (not hard to do)

Also, I'm now working on separate versions of the Stuka for SP (with the AIX divehorn activated in shallow dives). As I mentioned before - Do you think the MP version should have the original key-activated horn, or an automatic AIX-style one which only activates in steep dives?
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: djinn on 12-07-2010, 10:07:49
Great to hear Drawde. I personally changed the Normandy 25pdr to the African ones in Totalize and Goodwood, but oddly enough in Goodwood, the bots manned it (Seems like they like the African ones better) but didn't see a reason to fire! It might have had a better result in Totalize, except it didn't get manned at all. Its hard to tell if these are navmesh reasons or preference reasons

Clivewil PMed me a solution for the rockets. I should ask for the files, but I would let him try it out with the other rocket planes before I do.

Noted something in Goodwood. I realize you added some stuff, like the Tiger in Cobra to help the counterattack.. well, in Goodwood, and I'm not sure you did it, but the German bots now spawn in the upstairs room and get stuck... like it used to before Winterhilf's clean-up of that map, yet the map is clearly that clean-up version....

I'm definitely thinking we need to either raise the howitzer's view point higher, or like I said once, moving it foward while still at 15m high might do the trick. The philosophy is that, since raising it loses some close range perspective (Not sure it matters to bots), moving it foward would have the same effect as raising it above 15m, and yet it will also guarrantee bots see further out... if it were possible. Drawde, think its worth trying?
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: cannonfodder on 12-07-2010, 13:07:12
...I think the volume/distance fade effect still needs tweaking, though...
Yeah, I agree. On El Al, most of the time you can hear it wailing and it sounds like it's right above you, yet the Stuka is nowhere to be seen.


Haven't had much time to test many maps, but there's something wrong with the Fall of Tobruk files, it CTD's a second or two after clicking 'Join Game', a couple of times it crashed while it was still loading (didn't notice what % it was at though).

Also, there was only an empty folder for Falaise.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: djinn on 12-07-2010, 14:07:30
For Falaise, I simply DLed Aserafimov's new version to the map that includes vehicle navmeshes and changed mortar and the lefh to have _AI after them in Server.zip/gamemodes/COOP or  SP3/64/Gameplayobjects.con

Yer, the Stuka sounds terrific now especially when it does pull into a steep or long sloped dive in which case you actually get the horn squarking... but its hard to tell distance as it wasn't optimised for FH2.... it will be epic when its in though

Most improved maps are:
/Alam Halfa, simply epic! I can't wait to see how a map like Mareth will compare. I thought this map was epic before... but now!!... Probably, the Game's best map, and a fair thing too since NA is the most significant part of FH2 for the time being.
/El Alamein, fresh breath of life with the NA version of the Puma, Rommel's beatle and all the explosions and strafing/ bombing runs... Tanks being more agressive too make a big difference... Still hope we could revert tank motion to prevent them piling up at certain points on the map.... Leagion, lo-ove the work you did with tans, but what the heck did you do!
/Totalize, ever epic, but now with rockets blasting away and Drawde's frag count fix, it makes this map all the more epic! And the Allies make it across alot more often - Just needs rocket-planes :-)
/ Arberdeen... I hate this map with a passion, but arty makes the biggest appearance in this one, and agresive tanks, use of static guns and infantry that seem to move in force makes this one memorable
/Faliase - tried it only a few times, definitely putting the panther back, but otherwise this is an ill map with arty comparable to multiplay

Drawde, do you think bots might use the Walking Stuka on Luttich if it also had a raised perspective? Perhaps it has to have a clearly defined minium range to prevent blowing up itself... I'm sure any effect we come up with to make arty see further will do wonders to this piece
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Remick04 on 12-07-2010, 21:07:20
The tanks stalling issue on maps like El Alamein may have something to do with the navmesh. I notice on Cobra, areas where the tanks where stopping permanently, the navmesh doesn't properly follow the terrain. Usually it’s a slight dip in terrain that results in the tanks driving off the navmesh by going beneath it. I've tried to fix this on Cobra by editing the navmesh by hand, and I've notice fewer permanently stopped tanks, but it still happens occasionally. I don't know if this is what’s causing the problems on other maps like El Alamein, but it makes sense if it is.

I've also notice bots won't always engage you even if you're within range, until you do something to provoke them, like shooting at them. This might be why artillery doesn't fire as far as it should. The distant targets aren't threats so they don't fire at them. I was testing a map, and one of my squad mates was on the US 81mm mortar, he wasn't shooting at anything but he was calling out targets and locations of enemies. So clearly he could see them, he just wouldn't shoot at them.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Drawde on 12-07-2010, 21:07:18
Fixed the Normandy 25pdr issue, it was caused by a typo in the .tweak file.

Now plane rockets have been fixed, thanks to Clivewil, I'll try and get another AI minimod version finished soon including this, also a new map mod/patch with full support for co-op maps (which I forgot to include in the current version)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: djinn on 12-07-2010, 22:07:14
Did you do anything with the commander AI? I didn't notice much change...
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Raziel on 13-07-2010, 08:07:26
The tanks stalling issue on maps like El Alamein may have something to do with the navmesh. I notice on Cobra, areas where the tanks where stopping permanently, the navmesh doesn't properly follow the terrain. Usually it’s a slight dip in terrain that results in the tanks driving off the navmesh by going beneath it. I've tried to fix this on Cobra by editing the navmesh by hand, and I've notice fewer permanently stopped tanks, but it still happens occasionally. I don't know if this is what’s causing the problems on other maps like El Alamein, but it makes sense if it is.

Remick it is definitely a navmesh issue. Yesterday was playing ElAlamein as axis and was attacking Kidney Ridge along the Combat Zone (yellow dotted line in pic) One of my squad bots was following me with a Panzer III and suddenly he stopped (Red area). When I went back to see what happened, the tank was reversing, then stopped, accelerated forward and then stopped again (repeating the whole process over and over). I went behind it and rammed it through the area. Sure enough after some time the tank starting moving forward on its own accord and together we attacked Kidney ridge. (PS What a nice story!  ;D )

Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: djinn on 13-07-2010, 08:07:31
Well, that's actually a relief... then it means we can still enjoy Leagion's tank motion i.e tanks don't always fire on the move, and just need to clean up navmesh is all... Quite a bit of work, but well... I thought it was Leagion's work causing the issue cuz I hadn't noticed this happening until after it i.e. 2.25
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Raziel on 14-07-2010, 13:07:31
Yesterday on Cobra just as I was about to disconnect I saw this:

F.Remick (105mm Howitzer) H.Bradley   :o Shit I wish I had battle recorder on to see what happened!

Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: djinn on 14-07-2010, 13:07:33
Remick already got his name in there... nice


I also noted that like Drawde said earlier, bots CAN see as far with little obstraction. But their willingness to fire at distant targets is reduced based on the fact that the target serves no threat to them...

If we can somehow make them plenty more willing to fire at any enemy in sight, we might not need to elevate or move their POV around....
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Raziel on 15-07-2010, 08:07:48
Remick already got his name in there... nice

My mistake Djinn it is Renick and not Remick but aside from this, the message confirms that Howitzers on cobra DO indeed fire. Yesterday I tested this again. It is the Howizer next to the Windmill uncap US base that fires.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: djinn on 15-07-2010, 09:07:30
I think both the windmill and airstrip howitzers have clear LOS, save for the fog... but its the agression from the 88 and the fact that the StuG (sometimes StuGs) move in close that makes them actively fire

I also noted that when i change the 25pdr in Normandy for the NA one, bots on Goodwood would at least man the one closest to them, although never see targets a threat enough to fire. But I didn't stand by it the whole time to see

I wonder if we set the numbers down to 2 people, one we make man the howitzer, and the other on the enemy side... I wonder if that will get em to fire since there are less distractions...

Anyone wanna try this? Would be simple to set your ratio to 50:50 and reduce their count with the FH toolbox from the DL site.

Might give us valuable data on how howitzers function

Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Raziel on 15-07-2010, 09:07:20
Good idea. Will try it this eve Djinn

Edit: Tried it yesterday. Howitzer at Windmill didn't fire at all seeing that there was no action taking place.



@Remick04 or Drawde: Yesterday was trying to film some sp action on cobra [with P51 firing rockets  (Thanks Clivewill and Drawde)  ;D ] and I noticed that when you restart the map (admin.restartmap) All 32 bots on the US side spawn at Windmill uncap. You can imagine all the action that was taking place over there...at one point there were about 10 tanks following each other attacking Farm flag...this eve will check what happens on the Axis side.

Edit:  Axis spawn on all flags
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: djinn on 21-07-2010, 00:07:14
I think the thing is to somehow try and see how we can make howitzer-manning bots mucho aggressive. On alam Halfa, the LeFH should be able to see as far as the frontline defenses if not further, but at its distance from the battlefield it will never fire.... or see anything as a threat...

I think that would be the solution we are looking for... It might also be that, howitzers seem to like tanks more as targets than they do static defenses...that said, it doesn't explain why the LeFH in Seige of Tobruk is quite active all the way up to the middle frontline base...

Well, I think we should start work on finding the crash issue in Purple Heart Lane. Anyone want to get this ball rolling with some theories we can investigate? we know aproximately when the CTD occurs: After capping the last road flag before the 88, but why?



Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Drawde on 23-07-2010, 22:07:55
Hopefully I should have an updated version of the AI minimod (planes firing rockets, no tank smoke shells, fix for Normandy 25pdr, etc.) and map minimod/patch (with full support for co-op) ready tomorrow - I'll update this thread when it's uploaded.

Once that's done, I'll have a look at more fixes/additions. Clivewil's deviation settings for plane guns definitely look like they might be useful. Couldn't see how to get the Stukas to dive more steeply, but I've now added SP-only versions of the Stuka where the dive horn/siren activates in shallow dives (as in the currently released minimod version) - the siren on the standard MP version now only activates in steep dives.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: djinn on 24-07-2010, 00:07:28
Wasn't Clivewil's advice regarding increasing the climb of the plane helpful?

EDIT:
Played PHL without Drawde's mod... Didn't CTD or lag like it does WITH Drawde's. Clearly the CTD has been itnroduced. Also noted how infantry fire their rifles at a more realistic rate... I heard what I thought was a mauser firing at me, killed the offender only to realise it was  a semi-automatic. M1 Garands and M1A1 Carbines also fire alot slower...

Something to compare maybe, Drawde... Also, in the stock FH2, bots use both the slow and fast fire BAR depending on the range... Another factor to note'


Ofocourse, glaringly obvious though was how 'no one was home' at any of the mgs and even the 88 until we were right on top of it. Nebelwerfer also had the same issue of only firing when the mortar was occupied, which served the Yanks better than Gerry since the latter would man it and see nothing over the hedges to fire at. Nice to know we left these flaws well behind...

Next, I want to take a look at armored cars and see if they prefer white meat to hardened steel
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 2 + Map AI minimod 1.0
Post by: Drawde on 24-07-2010, 19:07:01
I've now uploaded the new versions of the files, hopefully they should work OK (haven't had time to test them fully). The map patch should now contain fully updated/modified data for co-op as well as SP mode.

Also noted how infantry fire their rifles at a more realistic rate... I heard what I thought was a mauser firing at me, killed the offender only to realise it was  a semi-automatic. M1 Garands and M1A1 Carbines also fire alot slower...

Something to compare maybe, Drawde... Also, in the stock FH2, bots use both the slow and fast fire BAR depending on the range... Another factor to note'

Odd, I thought I'd got the "rate-of-fire cap" for semi-auto rifles and pistols to work properly, I'll have to take another look at this. I'll also try and get the bots using the different BAR fire rates again, this is something that inadvertently got "broken" whilst fixing/adjusting the weapon AI data.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: DirArtillerySupport on 24-07-2010, 21:07:28
Thanks for the timely upload dude...makes all the difference to come home tonight to a new version...lawns are cut...the head is clean...T-bones are soaked in Hickory Smoke BBQ Sauce, the beer is ice cold and there's a new version of the AI Mini mod installed and ready to go.  Life is good.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 25-07-2010, 00:07:00
Any chance we can get a changelog? And as a rule, I would recommend anyone with 'coding' done i.e for now, Aserafimov and Drawde, include one for any permutations

I know its all fan work, and voluntary at that, but I think Remick04 would be most grateful if he can track what was changed. I don't know how he is plugging your work in, Drawde, but I doubt its drag and drop.

Also, just wanna know the cool stuff that has been pimped up :-)

*Already spotted planes firing rockets and the Stuka is now custom right? deployable mortar still don't have raise perspective I noted....

Any other changes?
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Raziel on 25-07-2010, 10:07:38
Thanks Drawde for the new update. Will post any feedback soon.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: DirArtillerySupport on 25-07-2010, 20:07:38
I have to admit the stuka has vastly improved but I feel the siren is tied a little to close to air speed and not enough to dive.  I mean the dam thing never shots off now...feels like a 70's style police car more than a terror weapon.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 25-07-2010, 22:07:27
Yer, I was hoping getting the plane to fly higher and dive steeper would mean increasing the threshold  for the horn to come on, something that would do wonders  both in SP and CQ, but it seems we need to get back to the drawing board on that one...
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: DirArtillerySupport on 26-07-2010, 21:07:35
Yeah I can see where that is going to be a problem...but it's unlikely that you will ever teach a bot to pull out of a steep dive and deal with obstacles like mountains.  I don't know a whole heck of a lot about programming but I'm a keen observer of behavior and from what I've seen DICE has left little room for improvement with regards to bots flying planes.  Since the early days of 1942 things haven't changed much and all you can do is make them look like they belong in the air.  I do think the strafing has gotten impressive but a bot dropping a bomb will always look like a bot dropping a bomb.  In the end you could end up being at that particular drawing board for the remainder of the life of the game.

I really don't see things improving much in BF3... in fact I think they will start cutting out a good portion of the air play in favor of ground play.  Just like they cut the guts out of the naval aspect of the game which was next to frigging perfect and Forgotten Hope had made a crown jewel missed to this day.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 26-07-2010, 21:07:23
Ok, you're not helping our project, Dir... Sure, I can imagine alot of hurdles with my idea, but in general... lets try and be positive. By definition we are going against the odds here, and I'd say we haven't done half bad so far, we really don't need our moods being dampened...

My faith in at least trying the increased dive is based on the fact that Clivewil suggested it. Now I'm sure he could have foreseen these flaws too.. But bots are like computers... ROBOTS, remember... They do calculations. Some, alot more accurately than humans. Even with innacurate arty and such, their way of firing it cannot be emulated by humans in any reasonable fashion.

Look at Stukas diving now. Those weren't in FH1... then, they didn't dive at all... Strafing runs were pathetic then, now they are at least well-aimed. And Stukas dive and pull up in time. I'm sure if a human can do a steep dive, depending on how DICE designed it, bots can too...

Lets just wait and see what Drawde comes up with first ;-)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Raziel on 27-07-2010, 08:07:00
I did change the code for the angle of a dive as Clivewill suggested and definitely Stukas fly higher and eventually dive at about 50-60 degree angle activating the siren in the process. This was tested on Alam Halfa (as also suggested by Clivewill). Later on this eve I will film it and put up on Youtube...If you like it then I will ask Drawde to implement it into his Ai Mini mod.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 27-07-2010, 10:07:38
Now I'm totally feeling guilty forgetting you in the acolades the last time around, Raziel... :-\

gr8 work!
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Raziel on 27-07-2010, 12:07:07
  :D Don't worry bout it Djinn!....BTW was it you on Hslan yesterday. Had a good round on Alam Halfa with those Exavs guys! Nice teamwork!
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 27-07-2010, 12:07:31
Yer I recall... Tried to take out AT guns with Stukas... Fun guys those...

You should've been there for PeB. Only like 10 guys on the server so they made a rule of onlyi using knives... Funny as hell

I wonder who was on the mic, reminded me of this English guy who did these silly FH vidoes some time back, shouting corney German WW2 cliches... Was quite a riot

Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Raziel on 27-07-2010, 12:07:40
I wonder who was on the mic, reminded me of this English guy who did these silly FH vidoes some time back, shouting corney German WW2 cliches... Was quite a riot

Yep! Really had a good laugh! Cya around!

Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: DirArtillerySupport on 27-07-2010, 20:07:05
Ok I have to admit the stukas do look better in the sky.

Totally different topic..would it be possible to uncap the number of mines and or mortars/deployable heavy weapons put down?  Something I always enjoyed doing in that past with AIX or Mercs in order to defend an area.  Create a battery of about 6+ mortars all manned by bots.  It would be great fun to create a minefield and forward mortar position right in a vehicle path of the last no-cap with a few human squad leaders and have their bots man them.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 27-07-2010, 22:07:45
Issue is, we are trying to stick the orignal maps as is possible. But yes, adding is possible. Gameplaybjects.con file, I believe. Within server.zip/coop or sp3.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Raziel on 28-07-2010, 08:07:25
This is the video I had promised you showing the Stuka diving (with Clivewill suggestion in place)
The first video (as described) shows the stuka flying without any Ai modification. The second video has the AI modified. I've filmed both in Alam Halfa and in Crete (biggest change can be seen in Crete)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3m-N05_0zs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3m-N05_0zs)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 28-07-2010, 09:07:29
Great work. Its not as dramatically different as I thought it would be, but unless I'm wrong, you changed the speed at which the divehorn comes on? If so, I think I noted that difference in how long it took to hear it on Crete, which is where it otherwise stays on

Ok, fellas, I think we have something like 2 or 3 weeks tops to the next version of FH2... Now we need to put our efforts into getting all this stuff in.

Remick_04? Is that doable? Tell us how we can help - No as yet unreleased contents, sure. But anything else?

Drawde, we would need that 1.3 RC in time for Remick to make use of it. Any loose ends, we need to deal with now. Can you see yourself adding the increased climb of the Stuka and/or the increased deadliness of plane mgs in the next week if you choose to include them at all?

Can we try and solve PHL's CTD once and for all, otherwise, PHL will be unplayable in COOP in the next version of FH2 -



Gentlemen, this is again our moment of glory... Lets make it happen


ps. @ Raziel

What do you use to make the vids? As well as add text?

Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Raziel on 28-07-2010, 10:07:37
Djinn, I just changed the Max Climb angle from 0.17 to 89.0. Didn't touch the siren. It is the fact that stukas start climbing immediately (airspeed is low) that the siren doesn't activate immediately.

Re Software: I use Sony Vegas 9 for the vids. (You can use Windows movie maker - It is quite good)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 28-07-2010, 11:07:32
Wow. Then adding increased horn threshold will do wonders.

Thanx for the info on the movie app. Thinking of making an epic singleplayer video
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Drawde on 01-08-2010, 12:08:28
Where is Clivewil's post on the Stuka dive angles? (can't find it on the forum for some reason). I'll definitely give this a try.

What I did for the Stukas in the current version is to make two different versions, the default version where the dive horn only activates in steep dives (as with the standard AIX settings) and a SP-only version where it activates in shallower dives. You'll need the map patch installed for the latter to show up in SP/co-op maps.
If Clivewil's suggestion works, though, the different versions won't be necessary.

I'll also try out the aircraft MG accuracy fix. One question, though, is it true that with the AI difficulty on maximum, the bots ignore "deviation" settings and are always 100% accurate? In this case, would it be better to run the game with the AI on a high but not maximum setting, like 0.8-0.9?

I'll try and get another minimod version out within a week or so... the PHL CTD is probably the biggest issue currently.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Drawde on 03-08-2010, 20:08:24
Tried out Clivewil's suggested fix for the Stuka (increasing the climb angle angle) and it works great! Bots flying the Stuka will now dive steeply enough to activate the siren with the original AIX settings, so there's no need for separate SP versions of the Stuka or for setting the siren activation threshold so low that it goes off in normal flight.
Also, since the Stukas fly higher and dive steeply onto their target, they're quite a bit harder to shoot down especially with tripod + vehicle MGs, not good news for the Allies! 

It makes me wonder what else could be done to improve bot piloting AI by tweaking the settings like this! Increased climb angles might be helpful for other attack planes, not just the Stuka.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 04-08-2010, 01:08:43
Big priority we need for whatever version goes with the next FH2 release:
/deployable mortar with raised perspective
/Fixed Purple Heart Lane
/Bots able to use deployed mgs
/Panzer II also has repetitive sound when firing, as does mg34 ofcourse
/Bots still don't like the mg42 tripod
/Get AT riflemen to fire at ranged targets prone - I note that they stand and look at them, but think they should be firing standing, so they get transfixed and become easy prey.... Mgers don't do that for some reason
/Slow ROF for infantry to that of unmodded FH2 bots
/Permanent known solution to fixing double-capped flags. Winterhilf figured it out. I wonder if he told anyone the solution though...

----Get Remick04 to know all the changes to AI and to implement them in for the next mod - These are those I could think off head
.AT guns don't drive around or fire AP at infantry.
.Howitzers and mortar firing with direct fire and use custom vehicles that have raised perspective
.Custom Stuka with raised elevation for takeoff
.?More accurate mgs on all planes?
.Destinguished tank types i.e heavy, light etc
.Tanks switching Shell types
.All AT bomb infantry using them
.Mg and AT rifles with fixed non-stand-firing
.Bots never bailing from static weapons, but bailing from vehicles if need be
.MOre agressive bots?
.Bots that flee or dash when 'startled'
.Choice of bombs for aircrafts depending on target
.Changed max and min range for vehicles - Panzer II might still need agression work
.Map changes in vehicle loadout. Not too sure about Strategy in Luttich though - Sort of makes ther commander spam the radio, also present in other maps


*Will get in touch with Clivewill and see if he knows how to make bots priority personelle for say, howitzers, maybe even how to get them more agressively firing at distant targets they can still see - Want the nebelwerfer to fire at infantry


Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Devilman on 04-08-2010, 08:08:11
howitzers, maybe even how to get them more agressively firing at distant targets they can still see - Want the nebelwerfer to fire at infantry


All targets and the engage distance for a bot using a weapon is controlled by the weapons AI file
change to suit

weaponTemplate.indirect 0
weaponTemplate.minRange 30.0
weaponTemplate.maxRange 150.0
weaponTemplate.optimalRangePercentage 90
weaponTemplate.setFiringPose Lying
weaponTemplate.setStrength Infantry    10.0
weaponTemplate.setStrength LightArmour 0.0
weaponTemplate.setStrength HeavyArmour 0.0
weaponTemplate.setStrength NavalArmour 0.0
weaponTemplate.setStrength Helicopter  0.0
weaponTemplate.setStrength AirPlane    0.0
weaponTemplate.allowedDeviation 0.5
weaponTemplate.deviation 0.5
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 04-08-2010, 15:08:42
A possible suggestion, Drawde

Given the way Panzer IV D and F1 were used i.e as infantry-support. Will it be possible to change their mode of firing to make them more agressive at range for emplaced guns?

I also think the howitzers and mobile weapons ie. mortars and mgs don't get enough love. Maybe if they had the value that static mortars or the nebelwerfer have, it should solve things
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Remick04 on 04-08-2010, 21:08:03
Ok, so most of Drawde's AI improvements are in the mod (unfortunately in the change log I was given credit, not Drawde, which I complained about :-\). I wasn't able to just apply Drawde's AI tweaks as is because of all the .tweak files for weapons and vehicles. The Devs make their own tweaks to those files to improve balancing and gameplay for multiplayer. And if I included all of Drawde's files, it would revert all the work they have done back to 2.26. So I only included a few .tweak files that I knew what they did.

Things like the fix to the 2pdr sound loop (forgot about the Flak guns but I'll try and fix that), the fix to planes firing rockets, and the AI arty. I didn't include the stuka divehorn in its current condition for 3 reasons. 1. It still needed balancing. 2. It would affect multiplayer. And 3. It uses the AIX sound file, and though I know Clivewill has been helping, I don't want to add anything from another mod until I know with 100% certainty that we have their permission. That doesn't mean I'll never add the Stuka divehorn files, I definitely want to, but It's something that would require a bit more internal discussion before applying it.

I apologize, Drawde, for butchering your mod to get it included, But I'm trying to avoid setting back the 2.3 release. If there are any .tweak files that you think I definitely need to add or fix let me know what they are and what changes were made. Like for instance the 50cal MGs on Allied tanks in Normandy, don't seem to be firing, but I know bots used them in your mod. So I must be missing something.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 04-08-2010, 22:08:47
Well, until you CAN add the sound file for the Stuka, you can still use the auto-on, since that is a custom Stuka for singlelplayer only. Also you could use the FH1 Stuka sound from my download link, otherwise it would sound horrible with the current one

Also, Drawde is increasing the dive rate of the plane by increasing its climb height. Useful to keep the divehorn turn-on less sensitive to over-activation and to make the Stuka safer by flying, well... more like a Stuka

I also suggest some work on flags that cause double caps. Like the Farm in Cobra or the middle flag in Alam Halfa

Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: cannonfodder on 05-08-2010, 09:08:45
...most of Drawde's AI improvements are in the mod...
Awesome. The day we don't have to modify every server.zip creeps ever closer... 8)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Drawde on 05-08-2010, 11:08:50
I apologize, Drawde, for butchering your mod to get it included, But I'm trying to avoid setting back the 2.3 release. If there are any .tweak files that you think I definitely need to add or fix let me know what they are and what changes were made. Like for instance the 50cal MGs on Allied tanks in Normandy, don't seem to be firing, but I know bots used them in your mod. So I must be missing something.

No need to apologies - any AI fixes that get included in the officlal release are a good thing.
Most of the important data is in the .ai files anyway but there are a few important changes to .tweak files, I'll send you a PM later with more info on this. One thing I should mention is that the critical part of the aircraft rocket fix is in the projectile .tweak files (change physicsType to Point rather than Mesh), not the aircraft or weapon files.

Also, a lot of vehicles now share object and weapon .ai files, all the 75mm Sherman variants for example. The AI profiles used are defined in the .tweak files, if this is unchanged then most of these vehicles will use the original, unmodded .ai files. This might be something you want to look at.

Also, since Clivewil's fix for the dive angle, I've removed the SP-only Stuka versions from the minimod... the auto Stuka siren may have to be a feature, like the raised artillery viewpoint, that's only available in the minimod. IMO the auto siren could be a good idea for MP anyway (might encourage people to dive-bomb more!) but the devs may disagree.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 05-08-2010, 12:08:42
Totally agree.

The stuka dive is definitely better than that of fh2.

I did mention to clivewil that we had used the divehorn and dive architecture but the devs may want to contact him themselves - I wish they would. Then again they could make their own dive sound, maybe even more chilling :-)

But raised perspective for arty is a must otherwise it all goes back.

I think Remick might actually prevent the ctd on purple heart lane simply by not cutting and pasting.

The biggest concern I have is a way to fix commander ai for all maps and a permanent solution for double-cap flags. Those will do wonders for ai even with fair navmeshing.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Remick04 on 05-08-2010, 20:08:20
I do hope to try and implement the auto triggered stuka horn eventually, because I agree that it's better than the current system in FH2. But it’s ultimately not my call.

And the AI Arty with the raised viewpoints are in the mod. Well at least the files are, currently they are only on a couple maps. That’s partly because I havn't given them the updated gameplay files for all maps yet, and partly because of how updating maps works within the team. The creator of the map (or if the creator has retired, then the person left in charge of the map) are to only ones who can apply updates. I can give them the files, but it's up to each individual map maker to update their maps. So, it can be a little sporadic which maps get updated, depending on people’s availability to do so.

I did however figure out what was preventing bots from firing Arty on infantry at max range. I'll let Drawde know what I did for future use in the minimod. It makes a world of difference. On some maps the mortars never seem to stop falling from the sky.

And the projectile .tweak files for rockets should be updated, but I was noticing last night that not all the vehicle .ai files were updated, so I'm going to go through again and make sure everything is fixed. I'll also increase the dive angle for stukas.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 05-08-2010, 20:08:17
about the arty range

Swee-eet!
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: cannonfodder on 06-08-2010, 10:08:07
...On some maps the mortars never seem to stop falling from the sky...
That'll liven things up a bit...and I can't wait to see it... 8)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Raziel on 06-08-2010, 11:08:43
Wooaah! What a good news!  :D
Can't wait to have arty rain hell on my foes.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: General_Henry on 07-08-2010, 07:08:39
Is the AI as deadly in 2.3? (as that of in Drawde's mod)

It is only in Drawde's mod I can't wtfpwn all bots... for the very first time the bots flank me and shot me. It makes killing bots more a challenge. (and sometimes a noob human is worse than a bot)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Remick04 on 07-08-2010, 19:08:02
Is the AI as deadly in 2.3? (as that of in Drawde's mod)


honestly, I'd probably say they are deadlier.  ;)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 08-08-2010, 12:08:18
I sure hope bots like using static mgs and especially deployables. staying on those indefinately is a must or they'll throw player's deployables away. Also wish they get custom deployable mortars that also have the raised perspective. They are once again useless without it.

Remick, did you include Drawde's work distinguishing classes of tanks and bot tankers using special shell types against heavy tanks? Otherwise the matilda and valentine tanks would be unstoppable.

I will include a list of navmesh issues and commander issues later, when I'm at a pc and not a fon.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: General_Henry on 08-08-2010, 15:08:16
I sure hope bots like using static mgs and especially deployables. staying on those indefinately is a must or they'll throw player's deployables away. Also wish they get custom deployable mortars that also have the raised perspective. They are once again useless without it.

Remick, did you include Drawde's work distinguishing classes of tanks and bot tankers using special shell types against heavy tanks? Otherwise the matilda and valentine tanks would be unstoppable.

I will include a list of navmesh issues and commander issues later, when I'm at a pc and not a fon.

I have seen dead valentines as those are possible to be front shot (top) . But I have never seen a dead matilda.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Remick04 on 08-08-2010, 22:08:05
Remick, did you include Drawde's work distinguishing classes of tanks and bot tankers using special shell types against heavy tanks? Otherwise the matilda and valentine tanks would be unstoppable.

Yes, though not all the weapons.ai files have the currect values, so I've been working on fixing that.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Drawde on 15-08-2010, 19:08:51
I did however figure out what was preventing bots from firing Arty on infantry at max range. I'll let Drawde know what I did for future use in the minimod. It makes a world of difference. On some maps the mortars never seem to stop falling from the sky.

 :o How did you do this? I could never get arty bots to focus on infantry, let alone fire at things beyond their visual range. Sounds like AI artillery in the next version will genuinely be something to fear, rather than just creating impressive explosion effects  ;D

You mention that you've included my new armour class for heavy tanks (using the NavalArmour class), have you also used the one for unarmoured vehicles and guns (the Helicopter class)? I found it made a big difference having bots be able to fire at jeeps etc. and at exposed gunners with small arms... the AI is sometimes better at taking out AT guns this way than with HE.
Also (I'm sure you know this) it's really important to update ALL the weapons.ai files to take the new classes into account, otherwise some bots will completely ignore vehicles which use them.

Are you going to include the feature where bots don't leave static weapons? (using the "FixedGun" AI class) I found the game worked much better when bots "camped" guns, especially since AA and artillery tend to be behind the frontlines. Otherwise they usually hop out and go off somewhere else leaving the guns unmanned when an enemy tank/plane finally turns up. (The only weapons I didn't give the FixedGun setting were deployables and the Bren AA)

Glad to hear that you're making such good progress with the AI. By the sounds of things, I won't need to make a new minimod once FH2.3 is out (definitely a good thing)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 15-08-2010, 19:08:44
Although I think the deployables SHOULD have the fix-gun code. Bots tend to bail, sometimes without firing a shot, which means the gun dissapears forever - The bot can remain on till killed or TKed by the player to reacquire the gun (Just note never to displace them or the game CTDs... Many of these bugs are not SP, but with the very weapon code themselves). I've been trying so hard to get bots to use the Browning .30cal. Seems some mgs like the mg34 and vikers are much prefered to the mg42, and most deployables, which sadly means, the most tactically placed guns don't get used

Also, Remick, have you included the custom raised perspective for deplyable mortars. They make such a big difference in maps like PHL, where bots get slaugtered by grenatewerfer and it balances alot when I can deploy our own mortars and have bots slug it out, if nothing at all, to get the enemy mortar pointing else where to allow our boys to cross the bridge. Really tactical, those deployables....

Sigh.. I stil play PHL just to try and savor every bit of Drawde's excellent work. If the game is magnanimous enough, you actually get a situation where, once the Yanks get too close to the 88 for it to hit them, the grenatewerfer begins to blast away.. And sometimes the nebelwerfer... Not to mention, the flank mgs.... Quite the thrill... Cole eint got sh** on me when I'm leadingh THAT advance :-)



I'm making a new thread directed specifically at the AI in 2.3...
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Remick04 on 15-08-2010, 22:08:39
Everything about your mod, Drawde, is intact. The armor classes (naval and helicopter) are in proper use, though a couple of weapons.ai files weren't set up for it so I fixed them. And the fixedguns behave the same. Bots enter them and remain on them until taken out or replaced by player.

I haven't done anything with the deployables. I kinda want to leave the deployable mortars the way they are for people playing co-op together online of in a LAN match so they have some arty that behaves the same as it does in multiplayer for practice. But I may look into it in the future. And there was an issue with the Browning .30cal AI that caused a crash on Ramelle. Gunnie fixed the issue, but I'm not sure how it affects bots use of the deployable .30cal, I'll try testing it.

I think I want to keep it a secret how exactly I got bots to fire at greater ranges until you guys have had a chance to try it for yourselves. But I should amend my previous statement. Arty doesn't necessarily fire at infantry at its 'max range' but it does fire at a far greater range. I can adjust it, but it has the side affect of causing everyone to engage infantry at greater ranges. So, it becomes a balancing issue of finding the sweet spot where bots are engaging at ranges that aren't unfair to the player, but realistic and doesn't render things like arty useless. I'm pretty happy with what I have set up now, but I can always adjust it in the future once you've had the chance to try it for yourselves.

And I do hope Drawde that you don't plan on disappearing after 2.3 if the AI is top notch. A lot of that is thanks to you and I could still use the help going forward ;D
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 15-08-2010, 22:08:43
Well, you know me, I'll probably have something to nag about, if Remick, Drawde, you're still up for the challenge :-)

ps. Maybe its paranoid insecurity, but why I do I suddenly feel like a kid with lice who no one wants to play with anymore? Did I pressure everyone too much? :-\
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Remick04 on 15-08-2010, 23:08:03
Well, I certain hope to get Singleplayer to a point where you don't have anything to nag about ;)

And I've always been someone who loses interest real fast unless I'm being challenged, So I give you a lot of credit for pushing me to be a better dev. I just don't want you to get your hopes too high because I'm no computer programmer. My background is in art, and I studied film production in college. So, all this videogame design stuff I'm kinda learning as I go. But I do value your attention to little details, and your appreciation for the fun of the game, and immersive experience. You're exactly the kind of audience I aiming to please.

That goes for the rest of you regular posters on here, too ;D
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 15-08-2010, 23:08:27
aaw, you shouldn't have

*Imagine bugs bunny in drag and in a flirtatious pose here*


Personally, I think being an artist is alot bigger an asset to the role than just being being a tech person. I sympathize with the learning curve, but balancing the cinematics, the gameplay the flow is more an art than a science really

And as hard is it may seem, I cant' think readily of many more additions to AI right now. If I nag, its usually because I'm either hit by some manic inspiration or more likely, I just don't want this new found momentum to die... But I risk burning everyone out also...

Might not show in my many comments, but I'm probably the most excited person about AI in 2.3... Warts n all :-)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Raziel on 16-08-2010, 08:08:55
As the Canadians ingame like to say....."Way to go Boys!"
Goodjob ppl!
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: lemonwire on 16-08-2010, 12:08:51
You guys are making me tremendously excited to see the next release! I can't wait to see all the improvements.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Pierce Elliot on 17-08-2010, 05:08:53
Well I installed the current release and was pleasantly surprised to find that the AI was actually functional. Though a few maps crash, one being Mount Olympus.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: im_a_lazy_sod on 17-08-2010, 09:08:27
Yah, I've had some mad COOP battles on totalize *druels*

The dogfights, AA guns, avoiding getting strafted with A2G rockets in my stugh  :P

Oh and the Canadians always try and place satchel charges on me >:( - especially after they've thrown smoke grenades my way and blown up the 88 with A2G rockets at the factory at the same time - true story - was epic!!1!!!!1
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 17-08-2010, 10:08:58
Only map with confirmed ctd @ present is purple heart lane. Try reinstalling Olympus again. Something must have gone wrong. I'v experienced that with Anctoville and Olympus before.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Pierce Elliot on 17-08-2010, 15:08:39
Oh right it's Windows 7. It's not as simple as sudo bash -> Nautilus. No there is UAC. Problem fixed btw.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: CBCRonin on 20-08-2010, 18:08:29
-Repeated ctd for me on Fall of Tobruk- I didn't have an issue with it before.

-I fly the Stuka "alot" and the dive horn seems to have an issue with /sliding/ its frequency of activation and decibel level during prolonged flight..... to continuous activation (ultimately even at low speeds and level flight). It starts out fine, but if you stay in the same plane long enough it becomes unbearable.

-Priority on U.S. swivel .50 cal. is nice, but does a "semi" occupied tank/destroyer deter use by other bots? On Luttich I have seen every tank/destroyer mg occupied back at the main just waiting for a driver.... but the other bots were only using the light tanks and apc.
----------------

-Really like the artillery fire now, as it gives most last cap bases that extra level of defense.

-Mortars are also working well, though they seem especially accurate on the first round.

-Anti-tank/engineers now using explosives/mines is great, I haven't seen them fire their rifles yet (not that I ever saw them hit anything standing up before anyways ;)).
-----------------

AIX bots were able to use their mines and anti personnel mines (the proximity claymore, not just the demo packs) within radius of flags. This provided quite a surprise as you might imagine, would it be possible to duplicate or does the code now differ too much?
-----------------

Thanks again for all of the work and time you have dedicated to making sp a worth wile experience.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 21-08-2010, 21:08:52
@Drawde and Remick

Well if we can't get bots firing AT Rifles prone, we'd have to get them reverted to stand-firing until we figure out how to

Personally,I'd say, a pitty, since no self-respecting human will use pz2s and the brit light tank for more than getting to the frontlines now
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: :| Hi on 21-08-2010, 23:08:44
Pft, I love the Pz.II, and the vickers too.  :(
They're part of my favorite tanks
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Stryker on 22-08-2010, 01:08:07
@Drawde and Remick

Well if we can't get bots firing AT Rifles prone, we'd have to get them reverted to stand-firing until we figure out how to

Personally,I'd say, a pitty, since no self-respecting human will use pz2s and the brit light tank for more than getting to the frontlines now

I love anything with a 20mm cannon(s) and light tanks in general, excluding the Marmon, how dare you!  :P
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 22-08-2010, 10:08:53
I was talking about the ease stand-AT riflemen pwn Light tanks from range, making using them shortlived
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: :| Hi on 22-08-2010, 17:08:56
It just helps you to develop skill  ;D
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 22-08-2010, 21:08:21
Skill? Skill in what? Dodging bullets from infantry at a 1000 yards?
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Stryker on 22-08-2010, 23:08:39
Skill? Skill in what? Dodging bullets from infantry at a 1000 yards?
What else would it be for? :P and being sneaky and bouncing rounds of panters for lolz.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 22-08-2010, 23:08:22
Sigh...


Remick? I hope you got my 'heads-up' though
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Remick04 on 23-08-2010, 02:08:51
Yes I did, I'll see what I can do about it, but no promises ;D
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: im_a_lazy_sod on 23-08-2010, 05:08:18
Just out of interest, will all these changes be implemented in the official 2.3 release?

Or will there have to be an external mini-mod/add-on as per 2.26?

Either way is obviously fine as it's no problem to install - but would help greatly with COOP servers and having to switch back to original FH2 to play online :P
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 23-08-2010, 09:08:56
We are doing all we can to get everything in the official 2.3 but it would likely have creases.

Just as Drawde's came with its own bugs, taking that and moving a step foward may break it a bit at first. What I can say is that there should be plenty less needed in 2.3 if any, in order to enjoy an SP/COOP game

I wish our ragtag fan-modding team would still be running outside the black official dev car and helping where we can to debug and explore new horizons, but I'm not even sure who's left besides Raziel and me, and if the change of gear to 2.3-prepping was our final death nell :-/

But with Remick04 now having all under control, I just might try and reawake the troops, including maybe even activitating our secret asset: Clivewil :-)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: cannonfodder on 23-08-2010, 10:08:51
I'm still here (patiently waiting for 2.3)... ;)

I've just been preoccupied with Bioshock. After getting a new graphics card I can finally play it without it coming to a complete stop when it loads up the next part of a level.
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: aserafimov on 23-08-2010, 11:08:31
I'm also still here (patiently working on my FH2 custom map + BGFmod and waiting for 2.3) ;D
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Raziel on 24-08-2010, 11:08:31
I am here (patiently waiting 2.3).  8)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Drawde on 30-08-2010, 20:08:02
I'm still here, though I've taken a break from FH2 modding lately seeing as Remick04 and the other official
devs are now doing a better job than me ;D (also definitely looking forward to FH2.3
with improved AI + SP support)

When 2.3 is out I still might work on another minimod version (much smaller, hopefully, since a lot less will need fixing) addressing any issues that 2.3 hasn't fixed (maybe due to MP compatibility issues or lack of time)

Regarding the Stuka dive siren issue, I've now modified this so the siren has a much higher activation speed (only in steep dives)
and the AI dive angle has been increased so bots will dive it steeply enough to activate the siren. I'll put this up for release in a day or so.

Bots planting mines around flags may not work very well considering friendlies can set them off as easily as enemies (unlike vBF2, IIRC), also the AI mine-planting behaviour was responsible for the infamous "satchel TKing", so I disabled it completely in my minimod. Is there any way to stop bots from thinking satchels/AT charges are mines?
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: djinn on 30-08-2010, 20:08:46
Truthfully, -AP and AT mies cannot in fact be set oby friendlies... Tanks can drive over friendly mines and never blow up... Only the player can be TKed in that way

But yer, the binocs and mines do require a more complicated use. I'm currently without a decent machine and chasing work in RL so I've not been as active testing anything lately Which I guess also gives everyone a breather :-).. But I will soon think of some crazy idea of making bots use mines in logical ways, so wait up for me ;-)

And yer, I really don't want to ee squating bots holding bombs of any kind.. they still do it with charges and that's saomething that we need to fix before we think of adding more  such... But on to 2.3!

ps. No Drawde, I think Remick has agreed, as do I, AI is much improved on account of your intervention. We couldn't have gotten here without you... And I'm sure you'll see YOUR work floating arounnd the 2.3 AI along with the 'surprises' Remick spoke of
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Raziel on 31-08-2010, 08:08:59
ps. No Drawde, I think Remick has agreed, as do I, AI is much improved on account of your intervention. We couldn't have gotten here without you... And I'm sure you'll see YOUR work floating arounnd the 2.3 AI along with the 'surprises' Remick spoke of

Agree completely!  :)
Title: Re: AI minimod 1.3 beta 3 + Map AI minimod 1.0b
Post by: Zoologic on 01-09-2010, 15:09:43
Actually, I can't be more thankful than your presence here Drawde. I hope you all SP devs can work closer with the devs, especially regarding bots command.