Author Topic: Revolting Uniting  (Read 307707 times)

Offline :| Hi

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #945 on: 01-07-2012, 06:07:31 »
 ;D


ANYWAYS.

:| Hi: 2 Fuckwad spiders: 0

Finally got the motherfucker who has been living in my computer case for two/three weeks.
 He would constantly disappear when I would reach for my sandals. Not today.

[2:06:54 PM] Tolga: cant use tha shit underwater -Tolga on the G3

Offline LHeureux

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #946 on: 01-07-2012, 06:07:53 »
;D


ANYWAYS.

:| Hi: 2 Fuckwad spiders: 0

Finally got the motherfucker who has been living in my computer case for two/three weeks.
 He would constantly disappear when I would reach for my sandals. Not today.
Hahahahahahahah, talk about dusty. Old ass computer that you didn't use?
Hey, huge ass .gif signatures are totally unnecessary and obnoxious. Not these anymore, thankyouverymany kkbyethx love you, all the homo. -Flippy

Offline :| Hi

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #947 on: 01-07-2012, 07:07:26 »
Nah, it liked the warmth apparently.

I ought to clean my computer though...

It seems we are bretheren in the order of spider killers though.

[2:06:54 PM] Tolga: cant use tha shit underwater -Tolga on the G3

Offline Dukat

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #948 on: 01-07-2012, 07:07:04 »
I think the Fw 190 had more weapon payload and space than the Me 109. Like the japanese Zero fighter the Me 109 became under-armed during the long war. That made the Fw 190 worthwile. It was simply a later design with more firepower.

IMHO

I usually imagine my own sounds with it, like `tjunk, tupdieyupdiedee` aaa enemy spotted, ratatatataboom

Offline Dukat

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #949 on: 02-07-2012, 00:07:58 »
Help, I can't post in the PotD thread. It gives me an apache error message. What can I do?

Edit:// ok, there was a problem with the url or something, apache didn't like it, somehow. I did a test post and edited it.
« Last Edit: 02-07-2012, 01:07:17 by Dukat »

I usually imagine my own sounds with it, like `tjunk, tupdieyupdiedee` aaa enemy spotted, ratatatataboom

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #950 on: 02-07-2012, 01:07:36 »
So you guys said it only itches the first times right?  :-[

Believe me, it'll get better.  Just make sure to do it every other day or so.

Offline Kelmola

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #951 on: 02-07-2012, 10:07:11 »
I think the Fw 190 had more weapon payload and space than the Me 109. Like the japanese Zero fighter the Me 109 became under-armed during the long war. That made the Fw 190 worthwile. It was simply a later design with more firepower.
True.  109 was undergunned to begin with, and like I said, it was not possible to add firepower significantly without hampering performance (no space in the thin wings or the thin fuselage).

190A was superior to 109 at low altitude, and had superior firepower and payload. 190D was superior to 109 at low to medium altitudes, and had superior firepower and payload. So East Front and Jabo duties and low-level interception should have been left to them altogether.

However, for the still-missing high-altitude interceptor - that would have had ample firepower and could also survive the escort fighters - there was actually a better solution solution than 109 or 190 that had superior performance and firepower already in '43, but we all know how that ended up: the dear old Gefreiter ordered the 262 be turned into a piss-poor bomber (bombs dropped at twice the designed speed from a design without bomb sights does wonders to accuracy, never mind that the bomb pylons screwed the centre of gravity and hampered the performance due to too high load, and the range was insufficient for a bomber to begin with, and that the 190 was infinitely more surviveable and suitable for the Jabo role) which took over a year and even after that the bulk of 262's went to converted bomber units, not fighter wings. GG.

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #952 on: 02-07-2012, 12:07:35 »
FW-190 was originally designed as a true fighter from the birth. Kurt Tank envisioned of all things necessary to make a true air dominance fighter back in 1941. While 109 is born as a racing plane, trophy grabber, or science toy. Thus it suffers similar things like all other racing planes do, such as Spitfire: limited range (small fuel tank due to limited space), high wing loading design (to improve performance at high speed), lightweight airframe (weakly armoured), and cramped cockpit (poor vision).

Bf-109 originally had two 7.92 mm MG installed in the engine cowlings. But then it received additional 20 mm cannons installed on its wings, making it slightly thicker, and taking spaces for the radiator heat exchanger, so it was installed completely outside of its wing (Bf-109E). Cannon rounds will scatter when fired at low speed, the aircraft will buffet from the recoil. Same thing happened with Spitfire and its Hispano Suiza 20 mm cannon, thus the BS attacking maneuver done by Ben Affleck in Bay's Pearl Harbour movie is pretty difficult to execute. Then later, the designer of Bf-109 simplified all of the gun layouts, beginning with F-series placing the main cannon in the nose, with the barrel running through between the V-shaped space of the DB-600 engine series cylinders.

I can understand how difficult it was for German designers to work with the already available fighter designs. It was quite a challenge already in 1944, with the appearance of Griffon and high-altitude American fighters.

Were they really superior to their counterpart from the allies? I can't say that these German fighters have a definitive superiority to be a "punchline" winning criteria for air combat. They do have some advantages, like maneuverability, climb performance, but some are only marginal.

One question though: I read that contemporary German fighter plane engines were rated at typical late-war max power of between 1,400 to 1,800 HP. But they were only achieved when using boost such as MW50 and alike, unlike the allied airplanes power output rating, which were achieved without using any boost or other temporary measures like water injections or methane injection. Is this true?

Offline Kelmola

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #953 on: 02-07-2012, 14:07:05 »
I agree that 190 was a fighter and 109 a sports plane with guns (much like Zero). As to the MW50 and why Allies did not require it...

A litre of gasoline contains the same amount of energy, no matter what the octane rating. However, high-octane gasoline takes higher pressure and temperature to ignite. German synthetic fuel (that they were forced to use late in the war) was commonly only about ~85 octanes (roughly comparable to 80/87 rating) or even less: Allied engines commonly used 100+ octane fuel, with some extreme examples like P-38 Lightning requiring 130+ octane (115/145) fuel to run properly.

What happens is that if you raise the boost pressure too high for low-octane fuel, it will prematurely detonate and actually use part of its energy working against the movement of the piston, a phenomenon called "knocking". The lower the octane rating, the earlier the detonation and the more energy is wasted and converted into extra heat. The MW50 (50/50 mix of water and ethanol) was used to overcome this temporarily by cooling the engine and thus delaying the detonation, so that high boost pressure could be used (temporarily) with the low-octane synthetic fuel. And here's the kicker: MW50 was only effective up to about 6 klicks of altitude, after which it starts to lose its edge. Now where have I heard that before, surely that is not the altitude at which a certain fighter started to lose its performance?

There was an alternative, the GM-1, which car tuners of today know as NOS, ie. liquified nitrous oxide, which instead increases the amount of oxygen in the fuel, acting more like an "extra turbo", and that worked at any altitude and for all octane ratings. Which is why it was used in Ta-152H (high-altitude interceptor variant of 190, hint hint) alongside with the MW-50. The Ta-152 does also prove that the 190 design still had much more development potential left than 109. However, GM-1 had negligible effect in low altitude compared to MW-50, and it was really complex to install dual system, and when not in use, both added significant weight.

What this means is that Allied engines were designed for continuous higher boost without the need for extra gimmicks because they had high-octane fuel available in large enough quantities.

So if you ever wonder why IL-2 Sturmovik (the game) has underperforming American (and to lesser extent, British) fighters, especially for the late-war designs: dear Oleg only trusts "neutral" sources, in this instance, German (and in some cases, Soviet) test flight reports of captured American planes. Which obviously had very poor performance when running on wrong kind of fuel, but since factory test flight reports and first-hand experiences by American pilots are all untrustworthy propaganda according to Oleg & co...

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #954 on: 02-07-2012, 15:07:29 »
Yeah glad that I played Il-2 mods. The airplanes are much more comparable now. The unreliability of Soviet planes, the relatively unresponsive American planes in low alt, etc can be clearly felt in the HSFX mod.

And that higher octane rating fuel is also one factor that I already suspected but not yet certain on the issue. Thanks for the explanation Kelmola.

So if you ever wonder why IL-2 Sturmovik (the game) has underperforming American (and to lesser extent, British) fighters, especially for the late-war designs: dear Oleg only trusts "neutral" sources, in this instance, German (and in some cases, Soviet) test flight reports of captured American planes. Which obviously had very poor performance when running on wrong kind of fuel, but since factory test flight reports and first-hand experiences by American pilots are all untrustworthy propaganda according to Oleg & co...

In many petty debates among sudden experts, people often argued how one side is superior to others in very wrong sense, generally fueled by Hollywood and anti-Hollywood point of views. As far as I understand it, Hollywood (and History Channel to some extent) tries to portray Mustang to have all-round superiority over the opposing fighters. So I guess Oleg Maddox tried to avoid that notion heavily, in order to get favourable opinion from a strong "anti-hollywood for no reason" community of hardcore gamers.

I too once held into this kind belief and school of thought, which is heavily influenced by the slightly incompetent and the only local aviation magazine (that time), "so-called realistic" video games, Hollywood and anti-Hollywood stance. But first hand experience and deeper involvement in my hobby community has taught me different point of view, new lessons and better understanding in how to actually compare stuffs.

I really like when we can discuss thing the way they are, not with some fanatic hot heads coming from whichever obvious school of thought.

Offline :| Hi

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #955 on: 03-07-2012, 02:07:49 »
Went to Anime Expo 2012, had a awesome time.
I picked this up, thought some of you might like it.



Got some pokemon badges too, cool stuff.

[2:06:54 PM] Tolga: cant use tha shit underwater -Tolga on the G3

Offline Surfbird

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #956 on: 03-07-2012, 02:07:02 »
I like that T-shirt, although I don't like the red colour too much. Of curse coke= red but a grey or beige tone along with a washed-out imprint would have made it even more awesome imo :P

Offline :| Hi

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #957 on: 03-07-2012, 02:07:50 »
Yeah, the red is definitely not that bright, I just took the picture with my toaster phone.



Its a lot more middle-left

[2:06:54 PM] Tolga: cant use tha shit underwater -Tolga on the G3

Offline Thorondor123

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #958 on: 03-07-2012, 20:07:41 »
Let mortal heroes sing your fame

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #959 on: 05-07-2012, 00:07:31 »
1 hour did i talked with somebody on the effect of having a jar off piss under her bed....We dranked vodka and she still believes still that having a jar of piss is super effectivr against burglars but common if i recieved a jar of piss on me i would be fucking pissed(get itlol) and be goddam angry

Meanwhile flippy is being grammar nazi to me on steam wich çis pure because of the alchohol


gooooood night everyone
-i am fairly sure that if they took porn off the internet, there would only be one website left and it would be called bring back the porn "Perry cox, Scrubs.