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Forgotten Hope 2 => Tactics & Tutorials => Topic started by: bjack on 01-08-2011, 20:08:38

Title: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: bjack on 01-08-2011, 20:08:38
Seeking discussion on tanks since 2.4!  Please share/confirm/dispute your experiences here.
Updated

I have one-shot a King Tiger, straight on side shot with 90mm HVAP (in the M36 Jackson).   I was able to one-shot the Jagdpanther frontally at long range with 90mm HVAP.  Regular 90mm did about 75% health damage to the Jagdpanther frontal.

Jumbo vs Panther:  Panther can't penetrate the frontal Jumbo medium/long rage.
75mm Sherman can do heavy damage to a Panther from the front if you bounce a shot around the front track!

6 pounder/57 MM (Falaise pocket):  57mm APDS penetrated but did not kill frontal Stug nor Panther medium/long range.

Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: ajappat on 01-08-2011, 20:08:23
Threads like this are bit pointless. Just quessing and speculating, while we could just test them on lan server.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: VonMudra on 04-08-2011, 07:08:21
Seeking discussion on tanks since 2.4!  Please share/confirm/dispute your experiences here.

I have one-shot a King Tiger, straight on side shot with 90mm HVAP (in the M36 Jackson).  Also if I recall correctly, I was able to one-shot the Jagdpanther frontally at long range with 90mm HVAP.

Jumbo vs Panther:  Panther can't penetrate the frontal Jumbo medium/long rage.


These are perfectly correct.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Mobilis_in_Mobili on 19-08-2011, 20:08:09
I've used the 76 and 75 shermans, plus the 75 cromwells to place hits on the rear end of the panthers and tigers; but no instant kill in several cases.  I realize the 75ers might take two or more, but why does the 76 fail?... but can someone provide a "hit block" to show where not to aim on the rear (i.e. chassis versus?).  I want to know the best in game places to hit the rear with the 76; I don't need to hear about the historical reality.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: bjack on 20-08-2011, 04:08:20
Here's the King Tiger mesh.  I don't really know what I'm doing or how to interpret.  Perhaps shooting from behind hits the same thick armor as the sides?  Turret or onto top of deck are weak spots?
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: LuckyOne on 20-08-2011, 12:08:09
Here's the King Tiger mesh.  I don't really know what I'm doing or how to interpret.  Perhaps shooting from behind hits the same thick armor as the sides?  Turret or onto top of deck are weak spots?

Indeed as KT had the same armor thickness at the rear. But I'm confused as it looks like the turret has the same armor thickness all around? Or is it because of the angle system?
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: General_Henry on 23-08-2011, 03:08:06
the turret of KT is surely a soft-spot that I'll always target it with any kind of weapons (AT gun/bazooka) unless I got the 76mm gun which 2 shots a KT in the side, don't ever try to challenge a KT frontally or to let it have any chance of running away (because when it seek revenge you're done). Somehow curiously the M9 zook is the most effective weapon against a KT as 3 well-placed shots would destroy it.

when shooting at pzIIIs with 6 pounder frontally, shoot at the turret, hull is easier to hit but usually bad angles therefore cannot 1s1k.

I have absolutely no idea how to 1 shot 1 kill stugs with a lower-calibre gun as you often need two shots even to the rear.

panther G is a tough nut to crack with a 75mm gun as you cannot one shot it from the side with good angles, if it is frontally facing you (the hull), check whether you can shoot at the side of turret, else, don't waste your ammo.

When you shoot at a crusader III with a 50mm gun I do not advise shooting at the turret.

Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Musti on 23-08-2011, 03:08:07
If you are close to the panther, shoot the commanders cupola. Killed few Panthers that way (esp. effective with Jumbo)
Also When shooting it from side aim at the tracks, shouls be 1s1k then. (Cromwells 75 does that)
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: General_Henry on 23-08-2011, 07:08:37
If you are close to the panther, shoot the commanders cupola. Killed few Panthers that way (esp. effective with Jumbo)
Also When shooting it from side aim at the tracks, shouls be 1s1k then. (Cromwells 75 does that)

cromwell is 1s1k but a regular sherman only badly damage the panther G, tested many times on local.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: hitm4k3r on 26-08-2011, 14:08:54

I have absolutely no idea how to 1 shot 1 kill stugs with a lower-calibre gun as you often need two shots even to the rear.


What do you call a lower-calibre gun? I played on Cobra yesterday. Frontaly the StuG can be taken out by a 76 with one shot with a well placed shot between gun and hull. But I advise not to attack a StuG frontaly, because the chance of getting killed is much higher, than to kill him. When you are facing his side with a Sherman (75mm) shoot at his tracks under the skirts and the chance of 1S1K is quiet good also on longer ranges.
This are only my experiences from a round on Cobra maybe someone experienced something completetly different.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: General_Henry on 28-08-2011, 20:08:59

I have absolutely no idea how to 1 shot 1 kill stugs with a lower-calibre gun as you often need two shots even to the rear.


What do you call a lower-calibre gun? I played on Cobra yesterday. Frontaly the StuG can be taken out by a 76 with one shot with a well placed shot between gun and hull. But I advise not to attack a StuG frontaly, because the chance of getting killed is much higher, than to kill him. When you are facing his side with a Sherman (75mm) shoot at his tracks under the skirts and the chance of 1S1K is quiet good also on longer ranges.
This are only my experiences from a round on Cobra maybe someone experienced something completetly different.

I'd never try to engage any armor from the front no matter how big gun I get - I am talking about a side or rear hit with the 75mm sherman.

Now it becomes a dilemma whether to shoot that stug in the ass/side or not - what if I didn't kill him? He'll turn, and if I don't have room to maneuver (sometimes I'm in some kind of ambush-cover that I can't move around, mostly would be stopped by a tree or some stupid stonewalls), I'll be dead 70% of the time (as always, another friendly round would kill it).
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: hitm4k3r on 03-09-2011, 14:09:35
As I mentioned: if you shoot at the tracks of the StuG from the side with the 75 mm under the skirt, the chance of killing it is not that bad. Ofcourse it is some kind of gambling, but not more, than in other tank fights. I had several more ridiciolous moments even with APC's or other tanks, than engaging a StuG with a Sherman (75mm). The engagement from the frontside with 76 mm is more a worst case thing than a real tactic. The best thing is to get as close as possible to it's front or rear with the 75 mm Sherman and to hope for not getting detected by the StuG -> then you can 1S1K the StuG. It is the same as with any other tank. Though you are mostly done, if the StuG has detected you. Panther is more difficult in my opinion. Best thing is to team up with other tankers to give the possibility to flank. This works fantastic especialy on maps like Alam Halfa or Cobra, where the you have much space but still some corridors.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 03-09-2011, 15:09:15
I fired shots at a panther gun mantlet with a 76mm sherman, didn't kill it. Panther fires at me, it bounces off. I fire again, it bounces off. Panther fires again, i'm dead meat. I thought 76mm should punch through with ease?
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: bjack on 03-09-2011, 18:09:59
I fired shots at a panther gun mantlet with a 76mm sherman, didn't kill it. Panther fires at me, it bounces off. I fire again, it bounces off. Panther fires again, i'm dead meat. I thought 76mm should punch through with ease?

The trick vs Panther is hitting center of the front-facing track.  75mm does enormous damage there.  One 76mm shell there might be a kill.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Ts4EVER on 03-09-2011, 18:09:42
Tank tracks are not weak points in Fh2. that is an urban legend. The Panther A has a weak spot on the lower gun plate though.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: bjack on 03-09-2011, 18:09:51
Tank tracks are not weak points in Fh2. that is an urban legend. The Panther A has a weak spot on the lower gun plate though.

Why don't you try it and see what you get?  You might be surprised.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Kev4000 on 03-09-2011, 19:09:58
Tank tracks are not weak points in Fh2. that is an urban legend. The Panther A has a weak spot on the lower gun plate though.

Why don't you try it and see what you get?  You might be surprised.

Which tank? Most of these claims are unfounded, however I know of a couple cases where it can happen. But it needs to be verified before being reported. The "tank_tracks" material however is used for wheel - ground collision, and has nothing to do with projectile vs tracks.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: bjack on 03-09-2011, 19:09:14
Tank tracks are not weak points in Fh2. that is an urban legend. The Panther A has a weak spot on the lower gun plate though.

Why don't you try it and see what you get?  You might be surprised.

Which tank? Most of these claims are unfounded, however I know of a couple cases where it can happen. But it needs to be verified before being reported. The "tank_tracks" material however is used for wheel - ground collision, and has nothing to do with projectile vs tracks.

As mentioned, on Panther, center of front facing tread.

Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Thorondor123 on 03-09-2011, 19:09:41
Tracks are not a weak spot in 2.4
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: bjack on 03-09-2011, 20:09:17
Aim here:
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: bjack on 03-09-2011, 20:09:03
And, spoiler alert:
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: General_Henry on 04-09-2011, 07:09:09
from what I see you're hitting the side armour instead of tracks.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Ts4EVER on 04-09-2011, 13:09:09
Or the lower front hull.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: DaWorg! on 13-09-2011, 14:09:38
Aim here:

Bounce off, mostly
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Kwiot on 15-09-2011, 17:09:39
I dont understand how its possible that M36 Jackson's 1 shot penetrates and destroys completely KT frontally...
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Mobilis_in_Mobili on 15-09-2011, 21:09:04
Thanks for the helpful posts!
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Chimples on 19-09-2011, 04:09:40
So basically the best way to kill a Konigstiger is to hit its turret repeatedly with bazookas or a side shot from 90mm HVAP?. Are there any diagrams that show the weaker armour sections of the KT available?

Also, regarding the panther does  that frontal track shot actually work for a one hit kill from a 76mm?

Any tips for fighting the Konignstiger and Panther would be hugely appreciated.

Cheers
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Slayer on 19-09-2011, 15:09:01
Also, regarding the panther does  that frontal track shot actually work for a one hit kill from a 76mm?
No.

Tips: hit them in the rearwheels in a straight angle (90 degrees - or zero degrees, depending how you count), always a nice amount of damage dealt that way. Panther dies in 1 shot from a short distance that way, KT survives first shot, but won't do that a second time.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: bjack on 20-09-2011, 01:09:32
Also, regarding the panther does  that frontal track shot actually work for a one hit kill from a 76mm?
No.

Tips: hit them in the rearwheels in a straight angle (90 degrees - or zero degrees, depending how you count), always a nice amount of damage dealt that way. Panther dies in 1 shot from a short distance that way, KT survives first shot, but won't do that a second time.

My screenshots above show 76mm one-shotting a Panther from the front.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Slayer on 20-09-2011, 19:09:49
My screenshots above show 76mm one-shotting a Panther from the front.
I always ask a few questions about cases like yours :)

- Where did you hit it exactly?
- How did you know the Panther was 100% health?
- How do you rule out a lucky shot?
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: hitm4k3r on 20-09-2011, 20:09:31
I had several strange experiences. I think, they should more fit to the Feedback section, but atm there is only this thread about this topic and I don't want to mess everything up.

1. I was 1S1K by a Bazooka sitting in my StuG frontaly - was a littlebit strange, since I was on full health
2. Was in a Panther and 1S1K from the front several times by Cromwell. Also by Sherman (76mm) on maps like Lüttich.
3. The Panzer IV H is atm next to useless against most other allied tanks. It is an easy 1S1K by most allied tanks in the frontside of the turret. You in the PZIV H aren't really able to do this at all allied tanks. So you only will have success, if you flank out a tank, but thats more luck since tanks have 360° view. Panzer IV is IMO only able to compete against the "normal" Sherman (75mm). Everything that is better is just suicide using this tank.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Slayer on 20-09-2011, 20:09:39
@2: Panther has a shot trap, which makes shells go through the thin armor on the top of the front via the turret armorplate.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Butcher on 20-09-2011, 21:09:05
sometimes i also feel like the 75/L48 is a bit weak. i mean that thing was quite effective versus shermans. btw. did the sherman M4A1 with the 76mm at least lose its extra armour or is it still there?
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: poisonshot on 21-09-2011, 05:09:23
@2: Panther has a shot trap, which makes shells go through the thin armor on the top of the front via the turret armorplate.

No offense but this was worded poorly and hard to understand at least IMO

A shot trap is when a shell bounces off the front of a turret and is in turn directed into the weak top armor of the tank
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Slayer on 21-09-2011, 17:09:36
@2: Panther has a shot trap, which makes shells go through the thin armor on the top of the front via the turret armorplate.
No offense but this was worded poorly and hard to understand at least IMO

A shot trap is when a shell bounces off the front of a turret and is in turn directed into the weak top armor of the tank
That's what I meant. Thanks for clarifying :)
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: hitm4k3r on 22-09-2011, 16:09:20
Thanks for the hints. But the other points like a Bazooka killing a StuG fronatly with one shot could need some adjustment for the next patch I think. The Cromwell is also a littlebit bugged. A shot of a Tiger bounces off from the side of the Cromwell very easy. I think it is only a problem, when you shoot with the 88 round of the Tiger. Other tanks like the PanzerIVH have no problems.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: General_Henry on 24-09-2011, 23:09:54
A panther A is quite fragile... just accept it, it is that shot trap(but if you got hit in there you deserve your death). But it is the best tank you could have in game (other than KT).

The pzIV is a serious threat to any kind of shermans - just keep yourself at some distance and it is not that easy to hit the turret that way. Infantry also have hard time against this thing as the only way to damage it is to shoot at the lower tracks/rear/turret. No need of buff or what.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: hitm4k3r on 04-10-2011, 11:10:10
Played yesterday on Luttich and mostly used the M10. I read it also in other threads, that the M10 seems to be somewhat bugged. I fired with special ammo on the frontside of a PZIV, but it only started to burn - was in some way wierd, since a normal 76mm Sherman easliy penetrates the frontside of the PZIV turret. I also shot a the rear side of a StuG with the M10 and also got a hitmarker. The StuG started to burn and tried to escape, but I got him. Nevertheless a quiet frustrating situation. It was not even, that the shot bounced off - it was a clear kill. I also somewhat found my fascination for the scout tanks (M8 and Stuart, same as the Puma). If you team up with other scout tanks, you can make nice ambushes and hunt down the better tanks. Most important thing is to stay in movement. With the Greyhound you have also a good chance, that Fausts and Zooks bounce off the sloped armor.

Somewhat funny was a situation, when a 75mm round of a Sherman bounced off, while I was driving a tractor. So the tractor seems much more useful now for tactical movements ;D
I hope the Devs also see this thread also as a kind of feedback to improve the anglesystem. ;)
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Kwiot on 05-10-2011, 14:10:11
Can sb explain me why rounds from Hellcat or 76mm sherman bounced off Panther side armore when they hit it perpendicuarly?
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: hitm4k3r on 05-10-2011, 22:10:50
I didn't try it, but I could imagine that you hit the skrits of the Panther. Would be intersting to know wich kind of Panther you mean. I had a quiet strange situation on Luttich with an M10. The Panther was in front of me, not the perfect angle but I could still hit him with the tank destroyer on it's side armor. But it only started to burn and I was like WTF?!?!?! and couldn't escape.  :-\
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Ts4EVER on 05-10-2011, 23:10:59
I always have the feeling that shells sometimes do no damage when hitting a fast moving tank. Like the Cromwell or Crusader.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Mazz on 06-10-2011, 00:10:37
Shells will bounce off moving vehicles, and generally more often it occurs the faster they are moving. This is a BF2 hit detection/netcode problem more then a FH2 problem, the shots are not registering correctly. The Crusader, Cromwell, Daimler, Puma are all notorious for doing it. Cromwell also has some issues in the area between the top tracks and hull start, that gap there likes to absorb or deflect shots.


To help this somewhat, aim for the middle section (slightly to the front due to shot delay) of a vehicle moving perpendicular to you, aiming for as flat a shot as possible. The wheels can also cause this problem because they are moving themselves and the impact point can be at a strange angle inside the wheel assemblies. Side turret on German tanksis the best, side hull on everything else I can think of.

Tiger in the wheels, because they are only 60mm there compared to 80 in the hull and turret.

Other notes:

In 2.4, just expect to need a second shot and plan for it, odds are you will.

Loss of power over range is much greater in 2.4 then previous releases, your shots will be noticeably weaker now at range then before.

Avoid hitting any applique armor like sandbags, track links, or those added armor plates on the side of the Sherman Vs and the like, they are all specifically coded to be thicker and not just astethic. Also, never hit a Sherman in the turret with anything, between the curvature and the armor, your wasting the shots compared to hitting the hull.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Yustax on 10-10-2011, 07:10:45
Tank tracks are not weak points in Fh2. that is an urban legend. The Panther A has a weak spot on the lower gun plate though.

Actually, I killed a Panther with a Jumbo, shooting at the right track. It killed it instantly.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: ajappat on 10-10-2011, 19:10:00
Tank tracks are not weak points in Fh2. that is an urban legend. The Panther A has a weak spot on the lower gun plate though.

Actually, I killed a Panther with a Jumbo, shooting at the right track. It killed it instantly.
You can't know if it was damaged already.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Yustax on 11-10-2011, 02:10:56
You can't know if it was damaged already.

I can, I was firing at it to the hull and turret, the weak 75mm were bouncing, that was until I shoot at the right track. Perhaps it went through them and penetrated the side armor and boom! It blew up. It wasnt smoking or anything.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Atkins on 21-12-2011, 10:12:05
How many shots T1/KT can take to the side/rear with 76/75?
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Musti on 30-12-2011, 20:12:13
For normal AP rounds it ranges from 2 shots to infinity, depending on the angle of impact, range, and your luck.
For special ammo from 1 to infinity, same reasons. Thats for the 76mm
I wouldn't try shooting a Tiger with a 75mm, its a waste of time.
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: Kelmola on 31-12-2011, 01:12:58
I wouldn't try shooting a Tiger with a 75mm, its a waste of time.
Crowell's 75 to the wheels is not a waste of time ;)
Title: Re: Tanking in 2.4
Post by: katakulli on 07-01-2012, 12:01:40
How many shots T1/KT can take to the side/rear with 76/75?
In real life only one, in fh (http://serve.mysmiley.net/confused/confused0006.gif) (http://www.footballerpictures.co.uk) it must be something like 75 millions.(http://serve.mysmiley.net/indifferent/indifferent0023.gif) (http://www.blueislandsdiving.com)