Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Announcements => Announcements => Topic started by: azreal on 10-12-2009, 22:12:48
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Coming later tonight in about 15 minutes.
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/main.php?mod=&flash=no&lang=english&module=
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cheero
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Uh, oh. 8)
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Post count +1...
I mean... Yeah!
8)
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I'm asleep by then! Racists!!Infedels!
Snakes on a plane eh.
I know. Its the Samuel L jackson kit for the allies
Armed with a Lightsaber, Pistol(From Pulp fiction) and detachable Afro hair(Also from Pulp fiction)
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:o
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Sorry guys, bit of a time FUBAR. It'll be here in 15 minutes.
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Sorry guys, bit of a time FUBAR. It'll be here in 15 minutes.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/toohype2k4/quagmire_giggity_giggity_goo.jpg)
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Pistol(From Pulp fiction) and detachable Afro hair(Also from Pulp fiction)
He should have a shotgun for this kind of a deal.
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Pistol(From Pulp fiction) and detachable Afro hair(Also from Pulp fiction)
He should have a shotgun for this kind of a deal.
Maybe then devs can still adjust it in time before the update
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I'm loving these Mother****in' Updates in my Mother****in' FH2!
BTW, I never saw that movie...
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Best news update title evah! 8)
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Planes%20on%20a%20Snake.jpg)
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I'm loving these Mother****in' Updates in my Mother****in' FH2!
BTW, I never saw that movie...
SAY what! SAY what again! I dare you! I double dare you Mo******** say WHAT one more goddam time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9ZQa1oZ3dQ
This is the best scene ever. Watch it to await those 15 mins
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I'm loving these Mother****in' Updates in my Mother****in' FH2!
BTW, I never saw that movie...
Defintely did not miss much....
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It's up!
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looks good, I like the art on the side of the plane.
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Woah nice plane.
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whoo nice
Check this out
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/091210/cobra_15.jpg
Notice the shermans
I really hope the P-51 vs FW190 is a balanced and fair fight. IIRC the P-51 was superior over the FW190 because it was faster and more agile then it. Also 6 .50CAL machine guns ripped trough axis planes with ease, so it should be a short burst to kill it.
Well thats what i hope
Edit= Is that a Allied kill mark on the kill marks below the cockpit?
And where are the hellcats! Operation Cobra is nothing withouth them :(
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Woah nice plane.
AIX did nice work :)
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whoo nice
Check this out
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/091210/cobra_15.jpg
Notice the shermans
I really hope the P-51 vs FW190 is a balanced and fair fight. IIRC the P-51 was superior over the FW190 because it was faster and more agile then it. Also 6 .50CAL machine guns ripped trough axis planes with ease, so it should be a short burst to kill it.
Well thats what i hope
Edit= Is that a Allied kill mark on the kill marks below the cockpit?
And where are the hellcats! Operation Cobra is nothing withouth them :(
I do like the FW190 though..
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Pistol(From Pulp fiction) and detachable Afro hair(Also from Pulp fiction)
He should have a shotgun for this kind of a deal.
Maybe then devs can still adjust it in time before the update
Are you complaining?
"SUCK ON THIS!"
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(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/091210/cobra_15.jpg)
My new desktop. Loving the Shermans with .50 cals on top. Also, the front Sherman seems to not have a cannon. What's up with that? Sherman Command/Radio?
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My new desktop. Loving the Shermans with .50 cals on top. Also, the front Sherman seems to not have a cannon. What's up with that? Sherman Command/Radio?
Sure it has a cannon. Look for the fouling on the end of it.
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Welcome to Benseras and to the P-51 in that order!
Best plane of WW2 and looks pretty.
Interesting map of an upgrade to Breakout - nicely done!
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whoo nice
Check this out
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/091210/cobra_15.jpg
Notice the shermans
Finally they have machinegun on the top of the tank (same thing for the panther)
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/091210/cobra_08.jpg
Welcome to Benseras
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Also, the front Sherman seems to not have a cannon. What's up with that? Sherman Command/Radio?
That's how conspiracy theories are born :D
Nice job everyone involved.
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The P51's victories always make me smile, all these German crosses and one American one. "Well I TK'd someone but it was still a kill so it counts."
I'm loving these Mother****in' Updates in my Mother****in' FH2!
BTW, I never saw that movie...
SAY what! SAY what again! I dare you! I double dare you Mo******** say WHAT one more goddam time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9ZQa1oZ3dQ
This is the best scene ever. Watch it to await those 15 mins
Ahh, good times. We had to make a comic for English class so I made on with that line, genius. Got to love his performance in that movie.
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(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/091210/cobra_15.jpg)
My new desktop. Loving the Shermans with .50 cals on top. Also, the front Sherman seems to not have a cannon. What's up with that? Sherman Command/Radio?
looks like the barrel is bendt, might be my eyes tricking me. anyway, this update took me by surprize Devs! really Really good! :o ;D you win a cookie
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You people are like Koalas. Cant see past your noses.
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You people are like Koalas. Cant see past your noses.
True, I cant see past my nose, since it's firmly pressed against my screen while I lick the P-51 picture. 7 shades of awesome :P
Operation cobra will be a blast to. :)
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It starts with a 50 and ends with a cal.
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;D
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looks good, I like the art on the side of the plane.
The guy have a sens of humor. :D
Btw how many version of the P51 exist for FH2, I counted 3 (1 with rockets + 2 with out rockets)?
What's the difference between the ones with out rockets?
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Very nice guys, keep it up 8)
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WOLVERINES!!!
...wait, where the fuck are they?!
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/091210/cobra_03.jpg)
Oh, there they are.
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I'm assuming the P51 has been tweaked heavily over the one that's already in the files?
Because that one is uber-rape and very unbalanced compared to anything else. In fact, the only thing that stands a chance against the P51 in the files is another P51. Also, 6 .50 cals = <3.
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WOLVERINES!!!
...wait, where the fuck are they?!
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/091210/cobra_03.jpg)
Oh, there they are.
those tents look silly :P
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Lovely :D Can we see the mini-map too? :3
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Lovely :D Can we see the mini-map too? :3
Ya that would be nnice :)
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looks good, I like the art on the side of the plane.
The guy have a sens of humor. :D
Btw how many version of the P51 exist for FH2, I counted 3 (1 with rockets + 2 with out rockets)?
What's the difference between the ones with out rockets?
there are just a bunch of different skins. And yes Ionizer, Gunnie has been hard at work tweaking the physics for 2.25
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Ahhh epic!
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Great looking map and Mustang! And it's daylight. Looks like the American fans will be pleased to use Garands in decent weather! (I know I will)
Spotted a Bedford truck as well. Still no GMC?
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HAHA! Finally those cupola machine gun thingys!!!!!!
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HAHA! Finally those cupola machine gun thingys!!!!!!
:P
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I want to know if the gunner will be on the copula or behind the turret like Bob and brother in arms?
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turret-mounted machine guns? 'what a depressingly stupid machine...'
i do love the machine gun on the little grants, though. like that one mission in brothers in arms where you control a squad and a tank and you can man the machinegun
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I want to know if the gunner will be on the copula or behind the turret like Bob and brother in arms?
Well....... ;)
i do love the machine gun on the little grants, though. like that one mission in brothers in arms where you control a squad and a tank and you can man the machinegun
I think you mean the stuart tanks in BiA.
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Ah, the P-51 Mustang. Welcome to your worst nightmare, Luftwaffe!
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I want to know if the gunner will be on the copula or behind the turret like Bob and brother in arms?
Well....... ;)
i do love the machine gun on the little grants, though. like that one mission in brothers in arms where you control a squad and a tank and you can man the machinegun
yeah, i guess. stuart, grant...meh. they look pretty much the same.
I think you mean the stuart tanks in BiA.
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yeah, i guess. stuart, grant...meh. they look pretty much the same.
First, quote fail!
Second, ummmmmmmm....no:
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/M5A1%20Light%20Tank/small.gif)
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/M3%20Grant%20Mk%20I/small.gif)
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yeah, i guess. stuart, grant...meh. they look pretty much the same.
First, quote fail!
Second, ummmmmmmm....no:
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/M5A1%20Light%20Tank/small.gif)
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/M3%20Grant%20Mk%20I/small.gif)
I can't tell the difference!
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I think the grant is a lighter shade of green ???
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nice update
Now give us an answer, where is lightning?
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nice update
Now give us an answer, where is lightning?
He probably fell behind his quota, and now he's being held against his will in Lobo's dungeon basement, probably being tortured by the evil Spaniard.
Either that or this is some sort of new "good cop/bad cop" routine being employed by the devs. Just wait ... the inevitable crush WILL come!
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Lobo doesn't even bother with the torturing, he has me do it. "Subjects" are strapped into a chair and shown a screen of update items and new fronts. The badder "subjects" are strapped into a chair and subjected to political talk from Warrior, OddBall, and Flyboyfx. The worst of the worst get all 4 at the same time.
-Official Minister of Torture in El Presidente Lobo's Banana Republic
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Now you're really scaring me, who's the fourth one? He-who-shall-not-be-named?
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I cannot possibly give away their identity, let me just say that He-who-must-not-be-named is worse than those 3. All 4 are for Deathrow prisoners but thats the most I can say before El Presidente subjects me to my own torture :-X
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Lobo doesn't even bother with the torturing, he has me do it. "Subjects" are strapped into a chair and shown a screen of update items and new fronts. The badder "subjects" are strapped into a chair and subjected to political talk from Warrior, OddBall, and Flyboyfx. The worst of the worst get all 4 at the same time.
-Official Minister of Torture in El Presidente Lobo's Banana Republic
Well of course, Senor Lobo could not be bothered to torture petty officers ... but Lightning is his right hand man, his evil side kick in this whole twisted sinister command structure. I would have thought that Lobo would wish to torture him personally.
I find it even more likely that this is some sort of ruse, however -- lead the underlings to believe that there is a weakness in the high command, in an effort to bait the less-than-loyal FH proletariat into attempting a united revolt. THEN the ultimate dream crush happens with the combined crushing power of Lobo and Lightning!
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great Azreal! but please edit your first post with a link to the website ;D I was looking for the news but can't find it ???
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Great job guys! I can only stare at the screenshots and smile!! :o :D
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Awesome neews.
The map rocks so mutch evrytime you play it you will have a hard one guys! ;)
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Amazing work to everyone who brought us this beauty. And thanks for the donated mustang. Variety is the spice of life/FH2.
I am really liking the looks of the armor battles in this map. As long as the airpower isnt too excessive *cough*totalize*ehm* then this could be a ton of fun. :)
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First, the plane looks nice, like the nose art, and I'm glad to get an American plane. And I'm welcoming all co-operation between mods, modmods and tourney teams, of which this is a brilliant example, so a big and heartfelt THANK YOU. But then, I'll beat a dead horse once more.
P-51D played a large part in securing air superiority for the Allies over the skies of Normandy.
Yeah, sure. D model was introduced into frontline squadrons beginning in May. On D-Day, 8th AAF had 7 Groups of Mustangs - many squadrons still flying B and C, with some squadrons even having them mixed with D - 4 Groups of Thunderbolts, and 3 Groups of Lightnings. But the 8th fighters were used primarily for escort duties. 9th AAF, responsible for giving top cover and CAS to invasion force, had 12 Groups of Thunderbolts, 3 Groups of Lightnings, and 2 Groups of Mustangs, with very few D models among those, because the 8th was snorting them like she was pure coke. "Major part"? Maybe in that certain movie where historical accuracy took a back seat to a director's artistic vision... ::)
Plus, provision for rocket launch rails was not included in the first batches of D model, only when there started to be a "surplus" of D beyond escort duties was this capability added.
Yes, even close-support P-47 and P-38 Groups started converting to P-51D (she had one engine, was simpler to maintain, consumed less fuel and thus ranged much longer, even though she was fragile and had lighter armament), so that by 1945 there was only one or two Lightning Groups and little more Thunderbolt Groups left in the ETO. But even on VE-day there were almost as much B and C model Mustangs still in service as there were D models. Yes, P-51D was probably the best known fighter simply because by VE-day she outnumbered the Jug and the Fork-tailed Devil and her own older siblings, and would keep on serving through Korean War thereafter.
I could have lived with the explanation "we are limited on resources, but fortunately this kindly donated D model is good to go from D-Day to VE-day, even though it was still a rare sight during the Battle of Normandy", but that particular quote made me burst at the seams once more.
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Note that this does not in any way affect my deep and true love for FH2 <3
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As to P-51 vs. 109 and 190... P-51 was more agile than 109, that's a given, and excepting the 109K, was also faster at any altitude. Against the 190, depends. You have to remember that the 190 could out-turn a Spitfire (having a better turn rate and a marginally worse roll rate - unless you purposefully snap-rolled it into a Split-S which eliminated the Spit's roll rate advantage). P-51 was faster and had a better climb rate, so no matter the altitude, the Mustang should have used "zoom'n'boom" against the Wulf, instead of trying to out-turn it.
Of course, at this point in the war, Luftwaffe was both outnumbered and short on pilots (most of whom were hastily trained newbies), so the odds were stacked firmly in favour of Mustang winning the fight against whatever she came across. The difference in agility was not that big, so turning with 190's was well within the realm of possibility, even if not preferred.
As a side note, the Jug was all but nimble, but for example Adolf Galland in The First and the Last considered her to have been already superior fighter compared to 190A. So with that in mind, the Mustang would have been an even deadlier adversary.
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I like the turret-mounted mg... its badass...
And in BF2 engine, you can duck and don't always need to move according to the turret motion (As according to BF2 vanilla... not sure how these will be)
Crouching behind the turret is even more badass, but has many pitfalls.. .one, what happens when the turret rotates? Do you remain in the air? You can't duck anymore to save your life - Y'all recall how much of sitting ducks those turret gunners were in FH1? Even BF42-vanilla
I love this update - We got the Mustang now with all its bells and whistles... and another Normandy dog0fight map!
Tanks are huge in this map... some serious bo9cage tank combat here... and a lovely town for infantry-street to street, with more depth than Luttich... me likey
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I could have lived with the explanation "we are limited on resources, but fortunately this kindly donated D model is good to go from D-Day to VE-day, even though it was still a rare sight during the Battle of Normandy", but that particular quote made me burst at the seams once more.
Come on, don't be too uptight about it. Lightning didn't write the news and exactly this comment which you made here would have come from him. Take it as a minute oversight.
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Awesome! Can we get a minimap for Cobra?
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I could have lived with the explanation "we are limited on resources, but fortunately this kindly donated D model is good to go from D-Day to VE-day, even though it was still a rare sight during the Battle of Normandy", but that particular quote made me burst at the seams once more.
Come on, don't be too uptight about it. Lightning didn't write the news and exactly this comment which you made here would have come from him. Take it as a minute oversight.
I will :) Just had to whine for whining's sake. I'm a bit frustrated because I'm posting from work and can't play FH2 here, I'll have to wait until I get home in the evening :P
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I'm assuming the P51 has been tweaked heavily over the one that's already in the files?
Because that one is uber-rape and very unbalanced compared to anything else. In fact, the only thing that stands a chance against the P51 in the files is another P51. Also, 6 .50 cals = <3.
I don't know what version you have flown or when or where.. However, that one is totally different from any previous versions found in any other mod, tournament and even within FH2. First, it is a custom one from Clive just for FH2 with some small modifications, done by myself. It is not the "exact" same airplane as was released by Clive many, many months ago. It is truely a beauty and piece of art work and I thank Clive immensely for creating such a fine machine for us to use.
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I want to know if the gunner will be on the copula or behind the turret like Bob and brother in arms?
Both!! We have them both.. In the coupola and behind the turret.. ;D
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I want to know if the gunner will be on the copula or behind the turret like Bob and brother in arms?
Both!! We have them both.. In the coupola and behind the turret.. ;D
From sn00x with love<3
btw i must ask the devs, have you fixed the HE vs Opel issue? its a bit strange i cant destroy it with HE, but a mp40 mag blows it sky high
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wait! what! how does that work... there's only one gun - And how do you handle the rotating turret? Don't say he is in a static crouch that remains once he is moved by the turret so that he can be crouching in midair?!
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hush djinn :D havnt you learned by now they got answers to mostly anything? ;D
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To be honest.. We lost Lightning at the Panzermuseum. I personally wanted a second check inside the Tiger II to see if he was hiding there but no..
Anyway, on turret MG's; you guys don't notice alot do you? Kev uploaded this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iUiujoWWzg and thats the raw WIP version.
Sn00x, HE has also been tweaked to do a more appropriate damage to targets.
This map is a dream for tankers and flyboys, I rage alot on this map because it's a pain the arse for someone who only wants to walk and use rifles or AT weapons ;D However once you lift on tanks to bases it gets very nice :)
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Anyway, on turret MG's; you guys don't notice alot do you? Kev uploaded this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iUiujoWWzg and thats the raw WIP version.
WOW!!! :o That's AMAZING!
Great update as always guys!
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OMG PWNLANE. I hope it is going to have really own sound, you know different from spit.
That is so awesome. Plane map with US of A. That map looks like its gonna be my new fav map ;D.
One of the best updates, i just love American WWII aircraft. Thank you Clivewil!
Now thunderbolt plz
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wait! what! how does that work... there's only one gun - And how do you handle the rotating turret? Don't say he is in a static crouch that remains once he is moved by the turret so that he can be crouching in midair?!
Some tanks have cupola guns, some have back of the turret guns. In both cases, you have a ~90 degree fire zone in the direction the turret is pointing, and you rotate with it. For the outside gun, a little wire mesh platform has been welded onto the turret for the gunner to stand on (as a sort of field modification). Both guns have crouch.
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Is that feature worth all the hassle? And will african tanks have it, too?
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Iirc tanks in NA didn't have that widespread AA MG's on them, so I don't think that we will see them there.
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Another question: Would it be possible to give a short overview of all vehicles on the map (like we got when Totalize was announced) or isn't that final yet?
edit: also, I jsut got the joke of the news update title, lol. Especially since we already had a "Snakes on a PLane"-update with the special Stuka.
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Yeah, EU came up with that title and suggested it. I couldn't stop laughing. Especially when that image popped up.
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Another question: Would it be possible to give a short overview of all vehicles on the map (like we got when Totalize was announced) or isn't that final yet?
Planes:
4x P51 (one rocket version)
2x FW190
1x storch
Tanks:
12x M4A1
3x M10
3x Panther
4x Stug40r
2x MarderI
1x PzIVh
(Maximum VS: 14 us tanks = 9 german tanks)
Armored Vehicles:
1x Greyhound
5x M3A1
3x Sdkfz251
Vehicles:
2x Bedford_amo
2x Willy
2x Opel_aa
1x Opel
1x Kubel
1x Kettenkrad
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little changes possible
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Only 2x Fw190 against 4x P51?
Hope the Germans will get a lot flaks then ;D
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Well indeed they have a lot AA.
Around 4 vierlings and 4 88´s.
The FW190 thing is a compromise to the flyboys. If we would have done the map right than there wouldn´t be german planes. But this you don´t want for gameplay.
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Well indeed they have a lot AA.
Around 4 vierlings and 4 88´s.
The FW190 thing is a compromise to the flyboys. If we would have done the map right than there wouldn´t be german planes. But this you don´t want for gameplay.
I hope they don't get the lame bombs.
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Great job.
I would actually support removal of any armed german airforce on that map and focus on AA instead for the germans, as it was.
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But the thing is that the flyboys want to dogfight and having so many allied fighters tackle ground AA makes it so one-sided. It is good to have a plane for both sides even if it is unrealistic. Take Totalize for example. I highly doubt the germans had any airforce fighting the commonwealth troops at east normandy, yet alone the americans at west. But its just to give the flyboys more versatile things to do. They can ground support and they can dogfight each other.
I think its a fair compromise, given that the germans are still outnumbered in the air. Unless of course you count in the Storch planes... ;)
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Yes Flippy.
I did know that there will come a discussion about the german planes on the map. Me personally would also have tried first the map without german planes as it was and adding in a lot of AA instead. Perhaps this would be realy a one side battle but on the other hand, if the Us won´t have too much tanks busters in the air the german tanks could still operate well. Maybe we can test how this runs after a possible release in new beta tests.
So far i give you the original explaining of lobo - how the FW´s are coming into the map:
Let's say the jerries saved some Fw190's in a hangar somewhere and those poor souls will deal with the allied superiority.
Doesen´t sound so unrealistic - yeah?
;D
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I highly doubt the germans had any airforce fighting the commonwealth troops at east normandy, yet alone the americans at west.
The German air strenght at the Atlantic Wall was two Jagdgeschwaders, so even if they had been at maximum strength (which they were not), that would have been 200-250 fighters to cover the entire coastline from Brest to the Dutch-German border. The US 9th AF had some 5000+ combat aircraft and RAF 2nd TAF had a couple thousand more to add even more insult to the injury. (Let's be modest and not count the behemoth that was the 8th AF, which was sometimes used to "remove" a town, and whose escort fighters returning from trips to Germany tended to make a low-altitude sweeps on the way home....)
For nighttime raids (as they would have been eaten alive in daytime), Luftwaffe had the remnants of their bomber force which had been decimated in the pointless Operation Steinbock, ie. ~100 bombers and a couple dozen Me 110s, opposed by ~500 Allied night fighters.
Luftwaffe replacements were usually shot down already on the way and those that did arrive intact were not enough to offset losses. The Allies could at this point in the war get an almost unlimited number of replacements.
Yes, "no German air in sight of battlefield" would be the realistic alternative. However, some those ~200 fighters did fly somewhere before being shot down (instead of being strafed at airfields), so momentarily the odds might have been fair (even though the big picture was hopeless) so it's not too much of a stretch for the sake of a fun, balanced map.
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a M8 would rival the marders for sure, and if the guy on it is good it could even devastate the stugs...
the M10s could roughly do 1v1 against the panthers, if they don't get strafed. (I am worrying that this would actually happen A LOT as the fw190 cannons really kills the driver quick)
so the 12 Shermans shouldn't have any difficulties running wild ...
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Aaahhhh I was getting withdrawal symptons. Just the fix I need.
Great update. Another map in which I can own with the Storch :P
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now think in this way, it's actually a DISADVANTAGE for allied having that many shermans/M10s/planes, as there would be hardly any infantry left for capping purpose when the tanks/planes are all manned.
We all know that a tank is quite useless for capping flags in Normandy as there would be a very high probability of getting fausted in mid way or 3kged...
I don't know how to describe this in words, but there must be good tank:infantry ratio to maximize the tank's combat efficiency.
Let's say:
2 Shermans per infantry squad would work great, you can have roughly 4 of such battlegroups ,of course, it means each infantry squad is about 4-5 people and some tanks/TD would be dedicated to tank-busting roles (i.e. the freelancers)
but now there seemed to be too many allied tanks, the support: tank ratio is terribly low, in my experience, if you only have 1-2 infantries accompanying you, you're very likely to get fausted in middle of driving. Or worse, almost no infantry support tank columns could be decimated by just 2 dedicated AT guys.
also, there's a "suppression" factor for AT infantry on tanks, e.g. when a sherman is worrying about a guy would pop up and faust him, he would be very vulnerable to even a single marder/puma. 6 infantry + 2 panzer surely would be very tough to deal with even when you have 5 Shermans and 3 infantries.
worse, the AT infantry could revive near the battle but the sherman cannot.
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now think in this way, it's actually a DISADVANTAGE for allied having that many shermans/M10s/planes, as there would be hardly any infantry left for capping purpose when the tanks/planes are all manned.
We all know that a tank is quite useless for capping flags in Normandy as there would be a very high probability of getting fausted in mid way or 3kged...
I don't know how to describe this in words, but there must be good tank:infantry ratio to maximize the tank's combat efficiency.
Let's say:
2 Shermans per infantry squad would work great, you can have roughly 4 of such battlegroups ,of course, it means each infantry squad is about 4-5 people and some tanks/TD would be dedicated to tank-busting roles (i.e. the freelancers)
but now there seemed to be too many allied tanks, the support: tank ratio is terribly low, in my experience, if you only have 1-2 infantries accompanying you, you're very likely to get fausted in middle of driving. Or worse, almost no infantry support tank columns could be decimated by just 2 dedicated AT guys.
also, there's a "suppression" factor for AT infantry on tanks, e.g. when a sherman is worrying about a guy would pop up and faust him, he would be very vulnerable to even a single marder/puma. 6 infantry + 2 panzer surely would be very tough to deal with even when you have 5 Shermans and 3 infantries.
worse, the AT infantry could revive near the battle but the sherman cannot.
Well that was what happened to the allied a lot of the times, loads of tanks but no supporting infantry.
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Nice update. I like those nose arts and the map looks great as always.
Few questions: First could you show us the minimap and secondly is the map bigger than Totalize or about the same size?
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Awesome stuff! This kind of map has never been in FH1... the closest one would be Sector 318. But the atmosphere will be niiiiiiiice.
Anyway, with the addition of more and more contents like vehicles and weapons, would older maps get updated as well? For example, currently FH use Bedford trucks for US... but let's say, in the future, we got GMC 5 ton truck modeled, will all American maps (including current Luettich) get updated with them?
Lastly, yeah... i agree with Kelmola, i used to think that P-51D was the pure pwnage of western WW2 skies. But technically, FW190 have several superior edge on them. Not to mention, Mustang's role is mostly escort fighters, which did good at medium to high altitudes (where it can be a major rapeage), but FW190 mostly can parry the Mustangs pretty well. I'm sure the devs know this very well... just letting off some counter-opinion.
I usually don't really take 1-on-1 historical replication to evaluate the accuracy of FH2 maps (this particular vehicles didn't saw combat on this map, something like that)... but i rather compare by representation . Like Kelmola posted, some of those 2 under-strength fighter units could have been taking off during the battle and get outnumbered and pwned soon. Who knows... some account says, several FW190s did take off during Normandy campaign and actually strafing commonwealth's position
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Nice update. I like those nose arts and the map looks great as always.
Few questions: First could you show us the minimap and secondly is the map bigger than Totalize or about the same size?
Don't know if it's the same size but it feels bigger ingame, much more open terrain for immense tank battles.
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Anyway, with the addition of more and more contents like vehicles and weapons, would older maps get updated as well? For example, currently FH use Bedford trucks for US... but let's say, in the future, we got GMC 5 ton truck modeled, will all American maps (including current Luettich) get updated with them?
Of course, no map gets left behind.
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I really hope this map is balanced. I really do
If it is a decent balanced map, then it will no doubt be the best FH2 map.
Because we simply all love tanks and aircraft on the map, admit it ;D
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We don't test it and it's going to be German biased.
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We don't test it and it's going to be German biased.
Jaaay!<3
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I really hope this map is balanced. I really do
If it is a decent balanced map, then it will no doubt be the best FH2 map.
Because we simply all love tanks and aircraft on the map, admit it ;D
It will be balanced. But just not for you. ^^
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I really hope this map is balanced. I really do
If it is a decent balanced map, then it will no doubt be the best FH2 map.
Because we simply all love tanks and aircraft on the map, admit it ;D
It will be balanced. But just not for you. ^^
Let me guess. A special code implented that i will be base raped by Focke wulfs and instanly auto tracked by panthers? ;D
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The map has basically the same size as Totalize: 1024x2
Minimap attached (but as a bit bader quality)
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will we have any night time maps...only lit up by the moon?
Great work any way
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I'm not the only one seeing the similarity here, right? Hopefully some kind of anti-basecamp will be put in effect.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/Be4viz/ingamemap.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/Be4viz/goodwood_minimap.jpg)
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I'm not the only one seeing the similarity here, right? Hopefully some kind of anti-basecamp will be put in effect.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/Be4viz/ingamemap.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/Be4viz/goodwood_minimap.jpg)
Hmm...hmm, maybe that outpost is just an infantry spawn? I can see potential "problem" tough.
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Really nice... I'm most impressed with the swivel mg animation for external mounted mgs - And with crouch! man! Real, badass - I just hope nothing happens when the tanker swivels the turret
I think I love this map... Totalize size, shitload of tanks! Air combat!...
BTW, how accurate to real life is this map - As a large map based on a very large battle area, I can imagine this to be rather low...?
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Nice update, looks like a fun map.
Panthers and Mustangs are nice but I dont see any train! What about trains on a snake?
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How many 76MM shermans will their be present?
3 should be a nice number (Out of 12 shermans)
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How many 76MM shermans will their be present?
3 should be a nice number (Out of 12 shermans)
There are currently 2.
There are also ABC zones.
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Accuracy perhaps just a rendition Djinn... Operation Cobra is a quite large operation to be depicted in a map. One town Hebecrevon was chosen by the FH2 to represent the witness (the opening attack), just like Prokhorovka for Kursk back in FH1.
I trust Taranov and Lightning anyway ;)
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How many 76MM shermans will their be present?
3 should be a nice number (Out of 12 shermans)
There are currently 2.
There are also ABC zones.
Ah thats good enough
That makes 5 allied tanks with Decent firepower..
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Suck on this! ;D
Nice update!, and i i quote from the fp:
That's all for now, but be sure to come back next week for another update.
So the tsunami of updates is coming! :) :D
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Suck on this! ;D
Nice update!, and i i quote from the fp:
That's all for now, but be sure to come back next week for another update.
So the tsunami of updates is coming! :) :D
No, I just copied that from Lightning's last update.
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FH promotes Tk ;D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/John1987/p51d.jpg)
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I'm not the only one seeing the similarity here, right? Hopefully some kind of anti-basecamp will be put in effect.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/Be4viz/ingamemap.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/Be4viz/goodwood_minimap.jpg)
not much to basecamp there. almost all german armor spawns at the trainstation the city or the farm flag. only maders spawn back in the "main" base.
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And the map is much larger than Goodwood 0.7
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It is almost 4 times bigger than the old Goodwood. :)
That lake in "F-4" is about as big as two squares of the old Goodwood. ^^
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Yes the dimensions are hard to imagine. But when you see how little the details at the minimap are than you get it in a way.
Btw we have kind a lot of accurate elements. The friendly fire of the carpet bombing at us main, many craters from carpet bombing, hebecrevon, defense line of three panthers.
I think thats a lot for that kind of map.
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Alright, I'm confident you'll make it work. :)
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I like those models and Op. Cobra too. I am looking forward to new maps very much.
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Yes the dimensions are hard to imagine. But when you see how little the details at the minimap are than you get it in a way.
Btw we have kind a lot of accurate elements. The friendly fire of the carpet bombing at us main, many craters from carpet bombing, hebecrevon, defense line of three panthers.
I think thats a lot for that kind of map.
The only thing I can say is, well, wasn't 70% of the Panzer Lehr, the main tank division facing the american attack, wiped completly off the map by the carpet bombing(or were captured with ease in the initial assualt due to the daze from the bombing concussion), along with the vast majority of their tanks?
"On 25 July over 4000 tons of bombs were dropped on the division positions in preperations for the US Operation Cobra, an estimated 70% of the personnel were killed, wounded or temporarily disabled by the bombings."
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1324
As that was the main opforce of panzers against the americans in that sector, and the main one to employ Panther tanks, and it was essentially wiped out...shouldn't this be reflected in the map design? I see the loads of bomb craters, but are they strewn with wrecked tanks and trucks? And shouldn't there be little german tank opposition, considering the main tank division in the sector was essentially destroyed? The 2nd and 116th Windhund panzer divisions didn't come into action until July 28th and 29th, while, since this is obviously the intiial assualt, the attack took place on the 25th. The only other possible source of armour in the area were the 2nd SS Panzer and the 17th SS Panzergrenaidier, and the 2nd SS was not in the area of the attack, while the 17th SS Panzergrenaidier would mainly be employing Stugs.
From what I can tell, only around 45 Panzer Lehr tanks remained to fight the americans. While this sounds substantial, spread them across a 7 mile breakthrough, and its not much at all.... I can see having one Panther, Pz4, and a stug or two, but not 3 Panthers alone o_O
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What you want to say?
There are some wrecks, not much because performance is king - remember its a big map. Nobody cares about some shity wrecks.
You can read the book book Operation Cobra 1944 : Breakout from Normandy for more details of cobra (there you can read about the three panthers also). Other than that i don´t discuss such details more since it leads to nothing.
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Honestly I do, and I bet others do too...it adds ambience to a map that should have it. For the german side, its the competly destruction of an entire division, the Panzer Lehr, the elite of the elite.
I know that there were Panther's that held out, 2 or 3 at a time, but then the question comes, is this map representative of Operation Cobra as a whole, or only a small sector with certain parts of the battle in mind? The reason that I care is that if it is just supposed to be representative of Op Cobra as a whole, then the germans should have next to no tank support. If its representative of a single engagement in the first day in which these 3 Panthers actually were there, in this spot, and did hold out there for awhile, then I see no problem.
But that still doesn't change the fact that wreckage should be literally strewn about in the craters, overturned Panthers and Panzer 4s and the like.
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Oh, and welcome Benseras :3
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I'm assuming the P51 has been tweaked heavily over the one that's already in the files?
Because that one is uber-rape and very unbalanced compared to anything else. In fact, the only thing that stands a chance against the P51 in the files is another P51. Also, 6 .50 cals = <3.
I don't know what version you have flown or when or where.. However, that one is totally different from any previous versions found in any other mod, tournament and even within FH2. First, it is a custom one from Clive just for FH2 with some small modifications, done by myself. It is not the "exact" same airplane as was released by Clive many, many months ago. It is truely a beauty and piece of art work and I thank Clive immensely for creating such a fine machine for us to use.
There is a P51 included in the 2.2 files, is there not? That was put on a custom map and that is where I flew it. It was a joy to fly, but it outclassed every other plane by a significant margin.
Anyway, I don't care anymore. I'm just going to wait patiently for the next update and absorb all the juicy info that gets released by the probing questions of inquisitive forum goers...
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Honestly I do, and I bet others do too...it adds ambience to a map that should have it. For the german side, its the competly destruction of an entire division, the Panzer Lehr, the elite of the elite.
I know that there were Panther's that held out, 2 or 3 at a time, but then the question comes, is this map representative of Operation Cobra as a whole, or only a small sector with certain parts of the battle in mind? The reason that I care is that if it is just supposed to be representative of Op Cobra as a whole, then the germans should have next to no tank support. If its representative of a single engagement in the first day in which these 3 Panthers actually were there, in this spot, and did hold out there for awhile, then I see no problem.
But that still doesn't change the fact that wreckage should be literally strewn about in the craters, overturned Panthers and Panzer 4s and the like.
That's something there the fun goes over history and realism. Would you like it to play a sitting duck without tanks and getting raped by shermans?
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Would you like it to play a sitting duck without tanks and getting raped by shermans?
Never thought I'd read or hear that
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Honestly I do, and I bet others do too...it adds ambience to a map that should have it. For the german side, its the competly destruction of an entire division, the Panzer Lehr, the elite of the elite.
I know that there were Panther's that held out, 2 or 3 at a time, but then the question comes, is this map representative of Operation Cobra as a whole, or only a small sector with certain parts of the battle in mind? The reason that I care is that if it is just supposed to be representative of Op Cobra as a whole, then the germans should have next to no tank support. If its representative of a single engagement in the first day in which these 3 Panthers actually were there, in this spot, and did hold out there for awhile, then I see no problem.
But that still doesn't change the fact that wreckage should be literally strewn about in the craters, overturned Panthers and Panzer 4s and the like.
That's something there the fun goes over history and realism. Would you like it to play a sitting duck without tanks and getting raped by shermans?
Honestly, yes, I'd rather be forced to coordinate and hunt shermans with schrecks, fausts, and AT guns, with minimal armour support in the form of a Panzer 4, a Panther, and a stug or two that must be carefully taken care of and used wisely, to represent the desperate german defense on that first day.
Essentially, going off this:
Tanks:
12x M4A1
3x M10
3x Panther
4x Stug40r
2x MarderI
1x PzIVh
(Maximum VS: 14 us tanks = 10 german tanks)
It should be taken down to this:
Tanks:
12x M4A1
3x M10
1x Panther
2x Stug40r
1x MarderI (if any, I donno if there were even any on this part of the frontline)
1x PzIVh
(Maximum VS: 14 us tanks = 5 german tanks)
Now, if you're representing a specific case in which 3 Panthers were grouped together and defended against the assualt, then this:
Tanks:
12x M4A1
3x M10
3x Panther
1x Stug40r
0x MarderI
1x PzIVh
(Maximum VS: 14 us tanks = 5 german tanks)
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Hm, then you're an exception, since most of the players would hate it to get raped by shermans. :P
Either way, the map is awesome and plays awesome.
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Hm, then you're an exception, since most of the players would hate it to get raped by shermans. :P
Either way, the map is awesome and plays awesome.
I wouldn't mind as long as we had enough people to hold our own against the tanks
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I'm with Mudra, and maybe just 1 FW-190?
(I don't want another Totalize map that's made to be "fun" with a lot of airplanes and tanks for both sides,not reflecting the desperate situation, but maybe that's just me)
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hell, i just want more underground bunkers now. i already got my WOLVERINES!!!
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Hm, then you're an exception, since most of the players would hate it to get raped by shermans. :P
Either way, the map is awesome and plays awesome.
But most hate it to be raped by panthers, wich are already historical inaccurate with the whole "Side and rear armor taking 2 shots from a sherman"
Not to mention the uber almost zero bullet drop and 350KM/H turret traverse :-\
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Sure, why not making a map there one team has all the uber tanks and the other only has inf?
Dudes, seriously, you would hate that, and since FH2 is sooooo german biased, the panthers will stay for sure.
You always think it's fun to fight against a whole army of attackers, but it isn't, it's not working on pubbie servers. Maybe your clan mates can help you, but not the regular public player.
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Sure, why not making a map there one team has all the uber tanks and the other only has inf?
Dudes, seriously, you would hate that, and since FH2 is sooooo german biased, the panthers will stay for sure.
You always think it's fun to fight against a whole army of attackers, but it isn't, it's not working on pubbie servers. Maybe your clan mates can help you, but not the regular public player.
That's true though, Pubbie is never as you want it to be ;)
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Sure, why not making a map there one team has all the uber tanks and the other only has inf?
Dudes, seriously, you would hate that, and since FH2 is sooooo german biased, the panthers will stay for sure.
You always think it's fun to fight against a whole army of attackers, but it isn't, it's not working on pubbie servers. Maybe your clan mates can help you, but not the regular public player.
What? What are you talking about? I'm saying dropping it to 5 german tanks. That's still a VERY substantial threat against the allied armour, combined with the multitude of german anti-tank guns and schrecks and fausts. I'm not saying get rid of every single german tank, I'm saying making it a proper, closer to historical number, in which either the 3 panthers are dropped to 1, or the 3 panthers stay, but getting rid of some stugs and marders. As I see it on this map, the main flags are all in a city anyways, thus negating the already inferior american armour even further.
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Sure, why not making a map there one team has all the uber tanks and the other only has inf?
Dudes, seriously, you would hate that, and since FH2 is sooooo german biased, the panthers will stay for sure.
Jeez everyone keeps saying that. Seriously stop it
Look. I can understand that they wanna keep things fair for the german team. If they would based themself on actual tank amounts, then it was a 10-1 overmight for the allies. Example=Goodwood. Allies had 700+ tanks in that battle, the germans 100. Yet in FH2 it is 8 allied tanks vs 6! german tanks.
Of wich the majority are panthers. Wich can easly kill any allied tank. Like it is supposed to. But it had VERY thin side armor and rear armor. Yet regular shermans need still 2 shots on those area's. Acceptable for the sides maybe, but not for the rear.
Things are better for this map. 14 allied tanks (of wich 3 M10's and 2 76MM shermans) vs 9 German tanks (Of wich 3 panthers and 4 StuG's)
Now this can lead to another famous example=Operation totalize. Fantastic map. Great potential. Armor layouts= 12 Allied tanks vs 9 German tanks. Of wich only 2 Allied tanks have comparable Firepower and the Churchill with 6PDR an acceptable firepower.
Now in theory this was balanced by the 2 Typhoons (As said in the revealing of the map). Yet how did it turned out? Allied planes got shot down by the sheer amount of AA+FW190's and wirbelwind. Then the misery truly began, because 80% of ur tanks have to fight 9 german tanks wich can easly rip you apart and you cannot or barely fire back at them.
What requires this for the attackers? Tactics! Does the public always have them? Not muchç
This is something that has to be thought of. Those 3 panthers will be a serious pain in the ass, despite the 5 Decent gunned allied tanks.
How will Operation Cobra play out? I actually have a good feeling about this map. In theory decent armor balances. A good numeric allied airforce(Like it is supposed to be(4 P-51's ftw!) But the chance that it turns into a second Operation totalize is still great.
I'm not saying that the map should be changed. I am simply suggesting that the devs need to be carefull in adding the amount of certain vehicles.I'm NOT HERE to question their judgement! i am still a follower!
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not much to basecamp there. almost all german armor spawns at the trainstation the city or the farm flag. only maders spawn back in the "main" base.
In case anyone is trying to call German Bias on this, as stated above, the majority of the German armour spawns on capturable flags. Therefore, they will allways have an armour deficiency compared to the US. To be honest, you could spent the whole round in a Sherman with only HE loaded and do all right because as far as I can tell, German armour is spread very thin over a very wide area.
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Honestly I do, and I bet others do too...it adds ambience to a map that should have it. For the german side, its the competly destruction of an entire division, the Panzer Lehr, the elite of the elite.
I know that there were Panther's that held out, 2 or 3 at a time, but then the question comes, is this map representative of Operation Cobra as a whole, or only a small sector with certain parts of the battle in mind? The reason that I care is that if it is just supposed to be representative of Op Cobra as a whole, then the germans should have next to no tank support. If its representative of a single engagement in the first day in which these 3 Panthers actually were there, in this spot, and did hold out there for awhile, then I see no problem.
But that still doesn't change the fact that wreckage should be literally strewn about in the craters, overturned Panthers and Panzer 4s and the like.
That's something there the fun goes over history and realism. Would you like it to play a sitting duck without tanks and getting raped by shermans?
Honestly, yes, I'd rather be forced to coordinate and hunt shermans with schrecks, fausts, and AT guns, with minimal armour support in the form of a Panzer 4, a Panther, and a stug or two that must be carefully taken care of and used wisely, to represent the desperate german defense on that first day.
You're not alone Mudra. I've always loved being put in historically accurate situations and finding a way to deal with them accordingly, just like those soldiers would have done in real life. If the scenario isn't at least generally set up the same as it was in real life, then what is the point of even naming the map after a real life battle?
In other words, if you're going to name a map after a battle, you might as well try to capture that battle's historical situation as best as possible. If that means wiping out half of the German tank support, because it REALLY happened, then so be it. Let the players find a way to overcome these hurtles like their real life counter parts. Don't sacrifice the uniqueness of the scenario for the sake of artificial balance. And as Mudra said, 5 German tanks used wisely could still pose a huge threat to the US team.
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not much to basecamp there. almost all german armor spawns at the trainstation the city or the farm flag. only maders spawn back in the "main" base.
In case anyone is trying to call German Bias on this, as stated above
We do NOT state German Bias. We are just suggesting things.
Seriously this needs to stop. The moment you say something Tiny bad bout the germans, its an instant reply=Stop whining FH2 is soo german biased.
If this was a map with 20 allied tanks vs 3 German tanks i will state that that is bad.
We are just pointing out some things.And they all are reasonable things wich can recieve reasonable answers
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In other words, if you're going to name a map after a battle, you might as well try to capture that battle's historical situation as best as possible. If that means wiping out half of the German tank support, because it REALLY happened, then so be it. Let the players find a way to overcome these hurtles like their real life counter parts. Don't sacrifice the uniqueness of the scenario for the sake of artificial balance. And as Mudra said, 5 German tanks used wisely could still pose a huge threat to the US team.
::)
i doubt the average public player shares your opinion...
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remove 50.cal please. they shred my 251! >:( allied biased!
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In other words, if you're going to name a map after a battle, you might as well try to capture that battle's historical situation as best as possible. If that means wiping out half of the German tank support, because it REALLY happened, then so be it. Let the players find a way to overcome these hurtles like their real life counter parts. Don't sacrifice the uniqueness of the scenario for the sake of artificial balance. And as Mudra said, 5 German tanks used wisely could still pose a huge threat to the US team.
::)
i doubt the average public player shares your opinion...
Then let them teamstack to allies and camp with a tank so germans win ;)
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You're not alone Mudra. I've always loved being put in historically accurate situations and finding a way to deal with them accordingly, just like those soldiers would have done in real life. If the scenario isn't at least generally set up the same as it was in real life, then what is the point of even naming the map after a real life battle?
In other words, if you're going to name a map after a battle, you might as well try to capture that battle's historical situation as best as possible. If that means wiping out half of the German tank support, because it REALLY happened, then so be it. Let the players find a way to overcome these hurtles like their real life counter parts. Don't sacrifice the uniqueness of the scenario for the sake of artificial balance. And as Mudra said, 5 German tanks used wisely could still pose a huge threat to the US team.
Thank you Hockey :)
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since when was FH2 a mod for "general public"?
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I gotta say I agree with Hockey and von Mudra on this one. From what I can tell Theta makes a really good point on German tank superiority ingame which only adds to the argument for less German tanks on this map.
And if that doesn't work then we could always take some prisoners...
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4056/screen009w.jpg)
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german tank superiority is a fact, just as allied air superiority is fact :D
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Now allied have 3 M10s and 2 Sherman 76mm,plus 10 other Shermans,1 M8 , 1 P51 with 2 bombs(I'm not sure about this) and 1 P51 with rockets like the typhoon.
Axis:3 PantherG ,no more weak point on the front compare to PantherA,and 4 Stug,1 pzIV H,2 MarderI,I don't know whether German have a FW190 with bomb,but it doesn't matter,2 FW190 would definitely be raped by 4 bloody P51D.
If it's FH1,it's rather balanced,yet it's FH2 and those M10s have HVAP,it can take out a panther from the front!Now PantherG is just slightly better than M10,and there are 2 Sherman76mm too,I would say:
3 PantherG + 1 pzIV H = 3 M10 + 2 Sherman 76mm
So would 4 Stug + 2 MarderI = 10 Sherman + 1 M8 ?NO!That's a big negative,even a M8 is very nasty to Stug in a wide open map like this .There're 5 allied tank cannons which can kill those Stug and pzIV H from the front with 1 shot ,and any of the 15 allied tank cannons can one shot kill them from the side or rear. Stug are suitable for road encounter battle,like the one in Luttich,but in a map like this,it won't survive for long due to the poor side and rear armor.And don't forget, the allied have air support too!
I don't know how many Paks and Flaks the Germen have and I don't know how does the minimap look like too,if the map looks like Goodwood,then no doubt,allied rape German
And for the Panther rear armor problem,I just want to mention the angle matters.In BF2 engine one digree shoot is no different from a 90 digree one,that's the problem ,that's why devs can't make the Panther rear armor to be exactly 50mm in game.And I don't think this kind of "realism matters" can be really solved,for example,in game we can hardly shoot a target at more than 600 meters,so for realism, at such a close distance,a Pak40 should one shot kill any Shermans from the front,and 88mm/L56 should also one shot kill Churchills or Shermans,Sherman 76mm should one shot kill a panther from the front.........(there're many many other examples),yet it's not the case in game,in game a Sherman may even survive an APCBC shell shoot from Tiger.The damage system in game must adjust from the real world somehow because the engine simply can't simulate the real world.In history Kingtiger is deadly because it can shoot you 1 or 2 kilometers away and it's armor is invunerable AT THIS DISTANCE,yet many map in FH2 is just about the size of 2km X 2km or even smaller(2kmX2km is already about the size of Alamein).You have to compromise somehow.
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<sigh> This has nothing to do with balence! This has to do with realism! You need to slash 5 tanks from the current 10, and make the axis more reliant on schrecks, fausts, and anti-tank guns. Things will remain balanced either way from this change, and the map will play just fine. The point is the realism here. The germans simply had almost NO tanks left to hold back the assualt, something which simply must be reflected in game.
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<sigh> This has nothing to do with balence! This has to do with realism! You need to slash 5 tanks from the current 10, and make the axis more reliant on schrecks, fausts, and anti-tank guns. Things will remain balanced either way from this change, and the map will play just fine. The point is the realism here. The germans simply had almost NO tanks left to hold back the assualt, something which simply must be reflected in game.
YES! balance comes through tactics and strategy -- not thought artificial minipulation. Once again, I'll say that it's pointless to name a map after a real life scenario if the map doesn't even try to recreate that same scenario in some limited way.
People love playing Omaha Beach maps, even though the Allies always get butchered constantly. Hell, those maps are always ridiculously unbalanced. So why do people want to play them? Because it serves to recreate a famous event that everyone knows about. If the US troops suddenly got tanks and artillery guns to "balance" out the huge axis advantage, people would scream that it's unrealistic. Why should any other map based off of a real battle be treated any differently?
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32 shreks vs 32 allied tanks would be fun. :) same with 32 piats vs 32 pz4/Stugs
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Haven't you blokes ever heard the saying "Don't judge a book by it's cover"?
will we have any night time maps...only lit up by the moon?...
I'd love to see an FH night map, but it'd probably have to be an urban setting (for the streetlights, etc.) because moonlight alone wouldn't be bright enough.
But considering the inexplicable fear and loathing most BF2 players have for SF night maps, I doubt we'll ever see one.
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... operation hyacinth
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Actually theres 2 night maps.
One of them is Hyancith and the other one, unreleased, Port en Bessin?
Theres a couple of statics and a skybox in the game files, the skybox is a big moon with a nice color and that..
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You obviously forgot one BF games element that is ticket counts, ticket bleed and so on.
Op Totalize feels unbalanced because of the rapid ticket bleed. The Canadians started at marginally larger ticket that is not at all enough to equalize German's ticket. Other than that, it is pretty well balanced IMO. The Omaha map is balanced by massive American ticket counts advantage at the beginning. Not by tactics and strategy, and hopes that the entire opposing team are oblivious to our superior combat knowledge.
This map is pretty much unknown since it is internal. But judging from what you say about historical accuracy, i think it is worth tweaking a bit.
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... operation hyacinth
D'oh! That's right, I forgot about it because I've only played it once (doesn't work properly in SP).
Is Port en Bessin going to be in the next update?
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Hockey, Mudra and Theta please tell me how you guys liked Siege of Tobruk.
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Sure, why not making a map there one team has all the uber tanks and the other only has inf?
Dudes, seriously, you would hate that, and since FH2 is sooooo german biased, the panthers will stay for sure.
You always think it's fun to fight against a whole army of attackers, but it isn't, it's not working on pubbie servers. Maybe your clan mates can help you, but not the regular public player.
What? What are you talking about? I'm saying dropping it to 5 german tanks. That's still a VERY substantial threat against the allied armour, combined with the multitude of german anti-tank guns and schrecks and fausts. I'm not saying get rid of every single german tank, I'm saying making it a proper, closer to historical number, in which either the 3 panthers are dropped to 1, or the 3 panthers stay, but getting rid of some stugs and marders. As I see it on this map, the main flags are all in a city anyways, thus negating the already inferior american armour even further.
You can't setup gameplay in a video game based totally on historical accuracy. It does not work, because people do not play out or work together as they may have or would have in a real battle situation with real lives and equipment at stake. Most everyone has their own agenda, game play style and focus.
You can't anticpate people staying put and defending anything. You cannot expect teamwork, but only hope you achieve it at some point. There will be those who do not want to play infantry, but drive tanks. There will be those who do not want to drive tanks, but fly airplanes. Therefore, you'll have some of both camping out waiting on these items to become available.
Granted, you will have those who do enjoy playing infantry. However, the odds of getting a server full of a good mixed percentage of people is sometimes very hard to do. Those who love to fly and do nothing else, may even quit the server when a non-aviation asset map comes into rotation. Just like many quit sometimes when pure infantry maps come up for play.
Therefore, you have to build the gameplay up or skew it into a certain direction in order to achieve a balance to where EVERYONE has something that they deem is fun. Otherwise, no one will play.
You want to reduce the amount of Axis armor upon the map, but I can assure you doing so, would be foolish. You would have a percentage of the Axis team camping the tank spawns in hopes of getting one of the few tanks available. Look at maps like Goodwood or Faliase Pocket. You can even go back to maps like Mareth Line. Granted, it is not always like that, but more times than not. You can end up with a server full of people who want to Tank. Operation Goodwood can sometimes be very frustrating, due to the Axis army giving up flags to the Allies, just so the Axis tanks will spawn in. Then there is a mad attempt to try and make a come back and win the map. Most of the time, it is too late and the Axis lose.
In either case, another concept you have to keep in mind too for gameplay, is the clans and organized team players. Many servers sometimes get one-sided with very experienced players on one team, who can take 3 or 4 mediocre tanks and completely dominate a map. If you think four or five Axis tanks, like Panthers and Stugs are going to beat off a bunch of Allied Armor.. Think again. Get the right combination of players in the equipment and they will roll over top of you. (Yes, the Axis tanks are strong and powerful, but they can be beaten down.)
Give me five good tankers in Allied tanks and they will knock the Axis tanks silly. You could even reverse the numbers.. 5 Allied vs 10 or 12 Axis tanks and those five good tankers could win over lesser skilled tankers.
Anyway, maps are setup for good balance and gameplay, at least that is the idea. Sure, historical accuracy is taken into consideration, but it is, in my opinion, not absolute, due to the many variances that come into play when dealing with the techincal aspects of a video game, the internet and a world full of people with different ideas, attitudes and needs.
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Sure, why not making a map there one team has all the uber tanks and the other only has inf?
Dudes, seriously, you would hate that, and since FH2 is sooooo german biased, the panthers will stay for sure.
You always think it's fun to fight against a whole army of attackers, but it isn't, it's not working on pubbie servers. Maybe your clan mates can help you, but not the regular public player.
What? What are you talking about? I'm saying dropping it to 5 german tanks. That's still a VERY substantial threat against the allied armour, combined with the multitude of german anti-tank guns and schrecks and fausts. I'm not saying get rid of every single german tank, I'm saying making it a proper, closer to historical number, in which either the 3 panthers are dropped to 1, or the 3 panthers stay, but getting rid of some stugs and marders. As I see it on this map, the main flags are all in a city anyways, thus negating the already inferior american armour even further.
You can't setup gameplay in a video game based totally on historical accuracy. It does not work, because people do not play out or work together as they may have or would have in a real battle situation with real lives and equipment at stake. Most everyone has their own agenda, game play style and focus.
You can't anticpate people staying put and defending anything. You cannot expect teamwork, but only hope you achieve it at some point. There will be those who do not want to play infantry, but drive tanks. There will be those who do not want to drive tanks, but fly airplanes. Therefore, you'll have some of both camping out waiting on these items to become available.
Granted, you will have those who do enjoy playing infantry. However, the odds of getting a server full of a good mixed percentage of people is sometimes very hard to do. Those who love to fly and do nothing else, may even quit the server when a non-aviation asset map comes into rotation. Just like many quit sometimes when pure infantry maps come up for play.
Therefore, you have to build the gameplay up or skew it into a certain direction in order to achieve a balance to where EVERYONE has something that they deem is fun. Otherwise, no one will play.
You want to reduce the amount of Axis armor upon the map, but I can assure you doing so, would be foolish. You would have a percentage of the Axis team camping the tank spawns in hopes of getting one of the few tanks available. Look at maps like Goodwood or Faliase Pocket. You can even go back to maps like Mareth Line. Granted, it is not always like that, but more times than not. You can end up with a server full of people who want to Tank. Operation Goodwood can sometimes be very frustrating, due to the Axis army giving up flags to the Allies, just so the Axis tanks will spawn in. Then there is a mad attempt to try and make a come back and win the map. Most of the time, it is too late and the Axis lose.
In either case, another concept you have to keep in mind too for gameplay, is the clans and organized team players. Many servers sometimes get one-sided with very experienced players on one team, who can take 3 or 4 mediocre tanks and completely dominate a map. If you think four or five Axis tanks, like Panthers and Stugs are going to beat off a bunch of Allied Armor.. Think again. Get the right combination of players in the equipment and they will roll over top of you. (Yes, the Axis tanks are strong and powerful, but they can be beaten down.)
Give me five good tankers in Allied tanks and they will knock the Axis tanks silly. You could even reverse the numbers.. 5 Allied vs 10 or 12 Axis tanks and those five good tankers could win over lesser skilled tankers.
Anyway, maps are setup for good balance and gameplay, at least that is the idea. Sure, historical accuracy is taken into consideration, but it is, in my opinion, not absolute, due to the many variances that come into play when dealing with the techincal aspects of a video game, the internet and a world full of people with different ideas, attitudes and needs.
Well written, that's the reality of a video game based on public servers.
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Jesus Christ, you guys are whining about a map you haven't even seen or played ?
for those who are concerned this map works as follows: allies gets a huge number of armour in high concentration at certain points. Axis get a good quantity of tanks as well, but they are more spread out on the map. therefore an allied tank will rarely encounter more then one, in rare cases two german tanks, since it roughly takes about 7-10 min to get a tank from axis base into possition.
This results in a nice battle where there is a more or less a continual steam of lonely axis tankers vs a large quality of allied armour.
it's fine as it is.
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Well, i think the current layout is fine, but if it will be changed i would say that put 3 panthers and take out all allied 76m Shermans and keep only 1-2 M10. That way numbers are more realistic and map is more balanced. Off course you more Shermans could be added to the place of m10s and 76mm.
That way it would be like it really was. US troops would need to sacrifice many Shermans to get one panther.
Though I think Gunnie made it pretty clear.
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Very well written Gunnie!
And also luftwaffe.be, who has played the map some times.
None of your hardcore historical guys were there, 1944 right?
From where do you know that such an action didn´t took place - perhaps there were some more as two german tanks bundled together?
Beside that gunnie has said a lot and found the right words. Its a game (with dropping tanks from air, spawning soldier etc) and is focused on gameplay. I also had to learn that beside historical things. Historical accuracy in a way yes but let not dominate that gameplay if it will make it bad. Cobra is so large that it would be very boring to have lower number of german tanks. Your theory of german infantery holding up the US tanks won´t work probably at that wide map (Us tanks can simply drive over open fields) or they will camp at some positions what the Us tanker will know - so monton battle. You can still camp for allied tanks at the map with schrecks but that will be boring i tell you, hundred of possible ditches.
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<sigh> This has nothing to do with balence! This has to do with realism! You need to slash 5 tanks from the current 10, and make the axis more reliant on schrecks, fausts, and anti-tank guns. Things will remain balanced either way from this change, and the map will play just fine. The point is the realism here. The germans simply had almost NO tanks left to hold back the assualt, something which simply must be reflected in game.
This is the point really. By this time in Normandy, the Wehrmacht HAD to rely on those tactics. Simply because the panzers and their crews where strechted thin, battleworn and undersupplied.
I hope in the future, we can see a P-47 on a map like this. P-51 rocketmustangs existed but Jug's as fighter bombers where more common :)
And cant their be a bomb version of these planes aswel? Rocketphoons where common, but they where also armed alot with standard bombs. If the germans can have their BombWulfe, surely their can be bombphoons aswel? :)
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<sigh> This has nothing to do with balence! This has to do with realism! You need to slash 5 tanks from the current 10, and make the axis more reliant on schrecks, fausts, and anti-tank guns. Things will remain balanced either way from this change, and the map will play just fine. The point is the realism here. The germans simply had almost NO tanks left to hold back the assualt, something which simply must be reflected in game.
Great point Mudra, I can't agree more with you.
I don't really like the idea of each maps are almost with the same gameplay, just you fight in different landscapes/static layouts/vehicles.
Also, I do think one way to balance tanks is not to increase the absolute numbers but to decrease the spawn time(e.g. 5 seconds after you respawn), especially for the attacking side where the attacker have to drive a while to reach the front. It's gonna be a disaster for the allies if they have many people just waiting for tanks/planes in main base.
the Fw190s are gonna be strafing the M10s to death, and their bombs would ripe the shermans apart, or simply "suicide runs" (ignoring dogfights and just go for tanks) would kill the feel of tanking in Normandy.
I am not gonna play the Germans unless they have less tanks/planes because that just won't be satisfying...
I suggest:
total American armour : 11+ M8 (instead of 15+ M8)
7x Sherman 75mm -> very low respawn time, you should get it right after you spawn, because those are like turtles.
2x Sherman 76mm -> also very low, also they are like turtles
2x M10 -> because these stuffs move faster, it would be reasonable that they take a bit longer to respawn
1x M8 (or 2) -> longer respawn time as they are fast
2x P51 for air support.
Germans:
3x Panther -> long respawn time, because they are fast and deadly
1x PzIVH -> moderate respawn time
3x Stug -> low respawn time
1x Marder -> moderate respawn time
no air support (sorry but I think it's awful to have your M10 strafed or Sherman bombed in middle, it just kills immersion.
now, why should the respawn time of German amour be longer? because they are technically "defending" and take less time for them to drive a tank up to battle. If they have low respawn time compared to the turtle-like Shermans it would seem that there are more German tanks than Allied tanks in the battlefield.
the tank ratio is not especially biased to one side but I am sure low respawn time would give the "feeling" of the Americans being superior in numbers.
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You people whining: STFU & GTFO.
At least play the bloody map before judging it.
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First of all: Don't make the new mapper cry.
Second: You have never played the map and the vehicle loadout might not even be final and could change after beta-tests
Third: You don't know all factors (Where tanks spawn, what their spawn delay is etc.)
Fourth: The "But-we-need-realism"-argument is kinda bullshit, because balance is the first and foremost priority. However, I'm sure that unmirrored balance could be achieved with less German tanks.
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First of all: Don't make the new mapper cry.
Second: You have never played the map and the vehicle loadout might not even be final and could change after beta-tests
Third: You don't know all factors (Where tanks spawn, what their spawn delay is etc.)
Fourth: The "But-we-need-realism"-argument is kinda bullshit, because balance is the first and foremost priority. However, I'm sure that unmirrored balance could be achieved with less German tanks.
Balance or not is not a problem, but the feeling of being in WWII is one of the point to play FH2. I sometimes like the epic feeling of defending as British in Alam Halfa as there are hardly any British tanks. I am sure that Alam Halfa is one of the best maps since FH.7
Similarly, I like maps like Berlin Streets, the Germans can win without even touching the KT. That map clearly show how you could beat tanks without tanks. Another example would be Karelia, the Finnish win very often with their supposingly "inferior" equipments.
as you say, it's "unmirrored balance", there are many ways to balance a map other than just give both sides similar number of equipments.
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I am just wondering why don`t you cry about Gazala. This is map you played, you can judge it. It is total unballanced now but i see you dont care. Yeah better is make devs sad. Try to make your own map, let us play and we will judge it.
I think devs knew what they are doing, and wich mistakes they did in 2.2 comparing to 2.15. I see mgs on the top of the tanks, something I wanted since 2.0 and i am very ok with that. Hope you will improve plane 20mm splash damage coz this is pity as it is in 2.2. But devs are making progress and thats what make me happy.
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I am just wondering why don`t you cry about Gazala. This is map you played, you can judge it. It is total unballanced now but i see you dont care. Yeah better is make devs sad. Try to make your own map, let us play and we will judge it.
I think devs knew what they are doing, and wich mistakes they did in 2.2 comparing to 2.15. I see mgs on the top of the tanks, something I wanted since 2.0 and i am very ok with that. Hope you will improve plane 20mm splash damage coz this is pity as it is in 2.2. But devs are making progress and thats what make me happy.
agreed
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Things aren't easy now,someone wants to decrease German tank number,someone wants to have less allied tank,tankers want to have thicker armor (or thiner on their enemy? ;D),flyboys want to have more powerful guns.......
All I want to say is:hey,how about releasing a minimap? ;)
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Even though I whine because of that beautiful Mustang D included quite early for CAS role...
...I am REALLY enthusiastic about a BIG tank vs. tank map. Now I don't have to wait years for Prokhorovka or hope in vain that El Al would be included in server rotation when I'm online.
As for the amount of tanks, it's the same thing as with the German air support. Just suspend your disbelief for a while.
For me, it's enough that I can go and read a history book or Wiki that says how Panzer Lehr's decimated remains did regroup and made a heroic last stand before being annihilated. Now, using historical troops ratios - 140,000 to 2,000 - that could not be recreated in-game, lest the last stand would be over by the time the owners of older computers have loaded the map. Yes, you can have an "unbalanced" map, but some kind of balancing must be had, otherwise it's not a "game" but a "cutscene" where you cannot possibly lose (or win). And infantry-only defense against tanks works usually only in built-up areas or forests, NOT in wide open terrain.
For all I care, I just pretend that the ~50 remaining German Panzers and StuGs just happened to regroup to defend a single, narrow sector, while everywhere else Shermans spawnraped German infantry in the open coverless terrain to their hearts' content.
I'm personally waiting until 2.25 has been released and I've played that map in many different roles on both sides before starting the usual "OMFG GERMAN BIASED!" or "OMFG UNBALANCED!" rants.
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All I want to say is:hey,how about releasing a minimap? ;)
Already been posted:
(http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3292.0;attach=1244;image)
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For all I care, I just pretend that the ~50 remaining German Panzers and StuGs just happened to regroup to defend a single, narrow sector, while everywhere else Shermans spawnraped German infantry in the open coverless terrain to their hearts' content.
Agreed!
Besides, Benseras already mentioned about the source of "3 Panthers" and dunno about the Marder I and the Pz IV. But let's say, Taranov and Lightning would not stay quiet on such compromise in historical accuracy.
Right now... all i think about this map is OMFG... Hellcat! ;D
Still, despite Mudra's post which slightly affects my opinion about this map, i still regard this much much much better than Aberdeen and Ramelle. I just couldn't care less... just want to play it! OMG American tank maps... what else can you ask for? Don't have this awesomeness since FH0.7's Sector318 (which isn't as nice as this looks).
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Hey, hey... I hope the Loadscreen gets a nice pic of General Patton - Unless I'm wrong, this was his operation :-)
So again, how would you rate this map in terms of real-to-life? Given the former scale used to rate the others - I'm still making my FH2 DVD collector's edition and I really would like such trivia :-)
@zM
Sector 318!? That's my map, baby... Once had my entire team of Americans push Jerry out of town and dig in infront of the town... Tanks occupied bomb-craters and round corners as defensive positions, 2 rows of em - Infantry in buildings spotted enemy tanks and sniped infantry and arty targets and planes conducted sortees on the German positions... Made sure each flank had enough tanks per square meter with enough infantry in mutual-protection - Avoided all tanks from one side moving to the next... Jerry was never organised enough to launch a meaningful attack - Good times, good times...
I'm still a bit skeptical about FH2 tank motion, infantry combat will kick FH1's ass even in sucha map as Cobra. Air combat.. meh... but we live to see...
EDIT: Oh, and I'm with Mudra in this one, sir.. I mean, they got them 88s... And the airforce wont waste ordinance on a single machine-gun... misquoted from SPR for my ends... but that means, Infantry is balanced.
We should have faith in the resourcefulness of players. If it was real, then sure a slight re-qeighting should be acceptable - This is a game after all, but we also want to experience the battle for what is was... A 'balance' in tanks, depending on how the real battle went and how the tanks spawn etc, will or wont help this feeling. I know I'm not saying anything here - Don't want to be in the crosshairs... Mudra, you, your lafette and 13000 rounda are own your own here - Just clearing my conscience :-)
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Quick suggestion:
64 players version map as intended by the Devs.
32 players version map as intended by the realism-fans.
Let see which map will be played the most and... who was right between the realism-fans and devs. ;)
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64 players version map as intended by the Devs.
Let see which map will be played the most and... who was right between the realism-fans and devs. ;)
64 player because no-one will realize that the 32p version is different.
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sadly... Its like PDH
How many servers even put on a 32-player version with the 64-player version option available...
I suggest doing it the FH2 way... ie. balance between the 2... clearly a balance of tanks is way in the un-realism point of view (I wont say devs' persepective, since I can't say THAT is indeed where they are), so one between that theoretical point and the realism-argument
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Why not a note at the end of the map description on the loading screen to inform players what the different versions of the map are.
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Nice to see the P-51D in the mod, shame about the totally fictional skins, would love to see some bona fide 9th Air Force markings eventually.
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The way I see it, we're not "whining" about the map itself. It seems that we are debating the role of historical accuracy in the development of the map, and are simply using this particular map as an example in our debate. Obviously we haven't played it and don't know how it works, but we're just discussing it all as a theory.
I understand that people don't usually do exactly what you want them to, and you have to design the scenario around that, but you can still leave plenty of room for tailoring the experience to the historical scenario. If you don't, then you've got something like General Henry said: "The same gameplay on all maps with different terrain." This might be a generalization, but it pretty much sums up the point.
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FIRSTLY I am not criticizing the map in general. I think its beautiful, and I think that either way its put it will play well. However, changing the allotment of german armour will change how it is playing, from just another tanking map like Goodwood or Totalize, to being something truly unique.
To respond to you, N24Reporter, I love Siege of Tobruk with all my heart. That is an amazing map. Notice however, HOW it was played. Gunnie brings up an interesting point, that pubbie servers will never play out correctly as we want it to be played. This is true...at first. Siege of Tobruk is an excellent example of this. When it first came out, it was vehemently HATED as it was considered an impossible map for the GERMANS. It was like their Omaha, everyone just got slaughtered by the british, and we barely ever had a chance of pushing forward, as people camped for tanks and crap, and didn't do anything. Then suddenly, something happened. Suddenly, the players STOPPED doing that. They started coordinating. Suddenly, the germans started winning a good percentage of the time.
So what happened? People figured the map OUT. Just like they're only recently figuring the other maps out. A map like this, in its current state, is just another yawn tank map, where as you say, we'll have people camping for tanks and crap. Do you really thinking having a total of 10 german tanks will change that? People who camp for tanks will camp for tanks no matter 10 tanks for 5 tanks.
Now, eventually, over a month or two, people will figure it OUT. They'll slowly stop camping (except the most die hard, but as noted, those can't be dealt with). People will start schrecking, land mining, satchel charging, and fausting the allied tank opposition. Those open fields will be death traps when people figure out that tanks can only see in front, not behind. Many an allied tank have I snuck up to and destroyed because I crawled into a grassy field, and they never once saw me.
I call for moving it to 5 tanks for historical accuracy, and because it will change another tanker map into a truely unique map. The FH devs have a chance here to install a little bit of the fear and anxiety felt by the german side. This was a battle, as I keep stating, and I will continue to state, in which 70% of the Panzer Lehr Division was DESTROYED, THE panzer division faced by the allies during the first days of this battle, the time period of this map. They had but 45 tanks left. To cover an area 7 miles long and 5 or 6 miles wide. That's 42 MILES SQUARE. That's 1.07 tanks per square mile. Now as I have said repeatedly in this thread, IF this is indeed, as has been said, based off a historical portion of the battle in which 3 panthers were grouped together and held the line against the americans, then by ALL MEANS, keep the 3 panthers. But remove other tanks. Remove the 2 marders that were never in this sector, and remove 2 of the stugs. Then, its done. This will, over time, actually force the german team to use its armour wisely. Pubbies can be stupid, yes, but even stupid players learn how to win the map. They're still stupid...but they're more, ah...directed in their stupidity.
And as I have said. I'm not criticizing the map itself. It looks beautiful, and I am sure in its current state, it will play nicely. But it will NOT be any form of a representation of Operation Cobra in its current design. 14-10 ratio of tanks, allied to german, is in no way, shape, or form a representation of Op Cobra.
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This is also how operation Goodwood is done. IRL it was 1300 British tanks vs 377 German tanks.Thats 3.5:1 ratio. Yet what are the odds in our goodwood?? 8 allied tanks VS 6 German tanks.
And please DONT say we are whining. Seriously. What is whining? Somebody burging in, and saying stupid stuff like=OMG GERMAN TANKS ARE OVERPOWERD ALL OF THEM UNSTOPPABLE or OMFG ALLIED TANKS SO LAME THEY SPAWNRAPE ME ALWAYS. This is whining. Stating something you encounterd completly exaggerated and untrue.
Are german tanks overpowerd? No they can be killed aswel
Are shermans always spawnraping? No because they can be easly killed aswel
What Vonmudra suggested was the historical numbers of German tanks on this map
and what i suggested was the importance of making sure that the numbers of diffrent types where well thought off, to avoid putting to much tanks of one strong type in one map. Its like making an map. Lets say a Early normandy US map. And your sherman force consists off 10 shermans=2 are Regular 75MM shermans, and the rest 76MM ones.
Please get our point, and dont instanly say= STFU and stop whining
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This is also how operation Goodwood is done. IRL it was 1300 British tanks vs 377 German tanks.Thats 3.5:1 ratio. Yet what are the odds in our goodwood?? 8 allied tanks VS 6 German tanks.
Yes, but the argument on that is that you had a high concentration of the german tanks in a small area, instead of an incredibly low concentration of shattered forces in a large area. :P
And ugh, yes, I agree on the "whining" thing. What we are saying simply isn't whining, its constructive criticism of a map's design. None of us have said that its horrible, that its bad, or such. I've even said for myself that it probably is a pretty fun map. Its just that its not Op Cobra in its design.
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This is also how operation Goodwood is done. IRL it was 1300 British tanks vs 377 German tanks.Thats 3.5:1 ratio. Yet what are the odds in our goodwood?? 8 allied tanks VS 6 German tanks.
Yes, but the argument on that is that you had a high concentration of the german tanks in a small area, instead of an incredibly low concentration of shattered forces in a large area. :P
Aha! And thats a normal valid answer for my suggestion right? If someone had said that instead of "STFU WITH WHINING" i would have taken that as ok :)
And indeed Operation Cobra will be a good map. Why? It has everything. Planes, Tanks, Cities. The flyboys have their planes, THe tankers have their tanks, and the infantery...
Seriously you Cannot deny the fantastic feeling when you PanzerFausted a tank or Zooked a panther to hell?
Or when you did a 3KM shot and blasted a tank to hell?
Or when you shredded a FW190 and strafed a german truck?
This map has no rivers! Wich means in the end, their will be far less camping as on Totalize
Only the Extreme die-hard fans of one of those 3 elements will complain in the end. A guy who did nothing but flying on Bf 2 will seriously dislike FH2 because of not every map having planes.
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God, what a soap opera you have here, ladies.
Listen, I am known as one of the most dictatorial mapper around here, most of my maps are "hate it or love it" because I like to stick to historic data for its design: FH1 Pegasus, Siege of Tobruk, Mersa Matruh (this one had even the perfect porcentage of Grants, Valentines and Crusaders, sadly I didn't find historic records of the german forces, but I guess is not so off), etc.
But
1) You didn't play the map yet, belive me, if you germans don't defend your positions with the knife in the mouth you are going to loose your armoured and air reinforcements very fast and then you will cry tears of pain.
2) Even if a mapper likes to stick to historic references, a good mapper should add some variations for the sake of gameplay (balance, interesting battles, creation of chokepoints, combat flow) and creativeness, if we had showcased North Africa as it really was you would be battling in bare, boring desert steppes with not remarkable points of interest. Obviously a FH mapper never will design a map with a totally fictional setup, it's simply not our style.
3) Nothing is set on stone, public play will push this map, like all the others, to the box ring chords, and then we will have more info to improve it and change stuff if it needs it.
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Thank you for the answer. Because thats a valid answer we can take for granted.
Well i am atleast...
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Nice plain, yay new map, yay new update and something to read. Thank you ^_^
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1) You didn't play the map yet, belive me, if you germans don't defend your positions with the knife in the mouth you are going to loose your armoured and air reinforcements very fast and then you will cry tears of pain.
3) Nothing is set on stone, public play will push this map, like all the others, to the box ring chords, and then we will have more info to improve it and change stuff if it needs it.
Good :)
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Am I the only beta tester that didn't play any of the new maps? It feels like I'm back in the past again ;).
Gonna check that one out and THEN lay down my verdict on forum table. I may have my concerns but I also have faith in our devs.
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lobo, one post more and i believe you are definetly the dark master!
At least, that is coming out of this thread:-)
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Welcome Banseras :)
Well i will love this map, i really like when X Side has 2 tanks and Y Side 15.
Looks like a fantastic Last Stand, and i love last stands.
For Example, Mareth. The germans have a single Pz IV F2 to fight Shermans and Crusaders, the rest are pure crap, Pz III N, a Pz III J wich is good against Crusaders and a Sdfkz 222. And Tiger bleh.
But i always, ALWAYS, take the 222, i gotta love these desperate times, when you review your forces, all Squadmates alive, one PIII N and a 222, lets do a small counterattack against allied armor and wow, man i love that feelin!
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sweet update thank you!!
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I read through some of the debate and I agree with Von Mudra and any of his followers... but I don't care to get involved :P.
Anyway, the update wasn't bad, but I was quite uninspired by the map :-\. It doesn't look bad, don't get me wrong, but it just looks plain, baron/empty with little detail.
This picture for instance:
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/091210/cobra_13.jpg
It just looks like a small town in an empty wasteland with a few hedges and such - it reminds me of someone playing the game with low view-distance on.
I know one shouldn't be 'judging a book by its cover', but I can't help it in this case until I play the map for myself. Despite all the hype about how awesome it is, I wasn't very impressed by its visuals - especially in comparison to previous maps...
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looks fine to me.
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looks fine to me.
Exactly it looks pretty desolate. Tbh the one thing i expect from a war
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God, what a soap opera you have here, ladies.
Listen, I am known as one of the most dictatorial mapper around here, most of my maps are "hate it or love it" because I like to stick to historic data for its design: FH1 Pegasus, Siege of Tobruk, Mersa Matruh (this one had even the perfect porcentage of Grants, Valentines and Crusaders, sadly I didn't find historic records of the german forces, but I guess is not so off), etc.
But
1) You didn't play the map yet, belive me, if you germans don't defend your positions with the knife in the mouth you are going to loose your armoured and air reinforcements very fast and then you will cry tears of pain.
2) Even if a mapper likes to stick to historic references, a good mapper should add some variations for the sake of gameplay (balance, interesting battles, creation of chokepoints, combat flow) and creativeness, if we had showcased North Africa as it really was you would be battling in bare, boring desert steppes with not remarkable points of interest. Obviously a FH mapper never will design a map with a totally fictional setup, it's simply not our style.
3) Nothing is set on stone, public play will push this map, like all the others, to the box ring chords, and then we will have more info to improve it and change stuff if it needs it.
Thanks for a legitimate response to our posts Lobo. People on these forums that call this "whining" seriously haven't spent any time on other online forums. Whining makes it sound like we're complaining without a purpose. No one has lost their cool here and I have yet to see any flame posts.
We're just having an age-old debate over how a game should handle historical situations. So far, it seems awful civil and reasonable to me.
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Welcome Banseras :)
Well i will love this map, i really like when X Side has 2 tanks and Y Side 15.
Looks like a fantastic Last Stand, and i love last stands.
For Example, Mareth. The germans have a single Pz IV F2 to fight Shermans and Crusaders, the rest are pure crap, Pz III N, a Pz III J wich is good against Crusaders and a Sdfkz 222. And Tiger bleh.
But i always, ALWAYS, take the 222, i gotta love these desperate times, when you review your forces, all Squadmates alive, one PIII N and a 222, lets do a small counterattack against allied armor and wow, man i love that feelin!
panzer IIIJ Late is more deadly than you think, I think we did good jobs against Shermans. (we lose all gabes flag early on but still stood to the end.) In the case of one charge by me I serial shot 2 Shermans, busted 2 crusaders, and died when capping a flag by a beaufighter.
I like being in desperate situations, that's when you'll operate a Marder like a Tiger.
Another example would be Fall of Tobruk, the brits do quite well against the panzers.
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Great news ! goooooood to se those planes and this map is as giant as my desire to play on it :D.
And what about Overlord? (omaha ; gold) ?
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i wonder when you start to thrust us? ::)
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Anyway, the update wasn't bad, but I was quite uninspired by the map :-\. It doesn't look bad, don't get me wrong, but it just looks plain, baron/empty with little detail.
This picture for instance:
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/091210/cobra_13.jpg
It just looks like a small town in an empty wasteland with a few hedges and such - it reminds me of someone playing the game with low view-distance on.
Judge it when you saw the map. Adding things to insanity is not difficult and doesn´t make a good mapper. The task was a big map with a lot of vehicles and planes and great performance. Thats quite difficult on BF2. But i can promisse the map isn´t lack details on the important places, especialy at the village (in it) itself what you can´t see in its full appearance on the update.
So stop whining, we take your excuse after the release ;)
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i wonder when you start to thrust us? ::)
No offence, but I did trust you completly until you prooved able to break a feature for arguable reasons, and answer something like "we are the allseeing masters and we are always right, go FU" without even giving a cent for fair points.
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i wonder when you start to thrust us? ::)
When you put back good old 2.15 flying physics! ;D.
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and old supressive fire shader
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i wonder when you start to thrust us? ::)
No offence, but I did trust you completly until you prooved able to break a feature for arguable reasons, and answer something like "we are the allseeing masters and we are always right, go FU" without even giving a cent for fair points.
About what feature are u talking about?
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For all people who trust in FH´s superiority *joking* i still have a bundle of screenshots on a server that we didn´t used for the news. I give you an example of other map parts now (the map is big, you can´t show all in a news update you must experience it).
Note: those are no screenshots for the public use on news pages etc. Don´t use them without the permission of the FH team!
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen137.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen138.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen141.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen141.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen137.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen142.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen143.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen144.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen145.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen146.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen147.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen148.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen149.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen150.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen151.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen152.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen153.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen154.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen155.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen156.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen157.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen158.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen159.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen161.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen162.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen163.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen164.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen165.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen166.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen167.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen168.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen169.jpg)
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i wonder when you start to thrust us? ::)
Some of them started already. Thrusting at the shin of FH like a randy dog ;D
BTW Benseras, thanks for posting so many pics that the page times out before even half are loaded ::)
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The other half:
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen170.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen171.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen172.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen173.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen174.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen175.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen176.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen178.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen179.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen180.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen181.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen182.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen183.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen184.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen185.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen186.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen187.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen188.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen189.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen190.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen191.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen192.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen193.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen194.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen195.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen196.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen197.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen198.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen199.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen200.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen201.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen202.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen203.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen204.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen205.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen206.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen207.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen208.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen209.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen210.jpg)
(http://www.behindertengerecht.newtronics.net/misc/news/screen211.jpg)
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This map looks pretty good. Open on places, some places are not. I can see some heavy fighting in that city.
+1 for these screenshots.
Since their are 2 Spawnpoints in the beginning for the americans, i might suggest that the load of 76MM armed vehicles is spread around them
Like the Mainbase holds the M10's and the other spawnpoint holds the 76MM shermans
Just my suggestion, dont shoot me for it :)
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About what feature are u talking about?
Planes physics mostly :-[
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This map looks pretty good. Open on places, some places are not. I can see some heavy fighting in that city.
+1 for these screenshots.
Since their are 2 Spawnpoints in the beginning for the americans, i might suggest that the load of 76MM armed vehicles is spread around them
Like the Mainbase holds the M10's and the other spawnpoint holds the 76MM shermans
Just my suggestion, dont shoot me for it :)
Thats how it is afaik.
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Good. Thats the best imo. if you pack the TD's With that sherman force in the south, it looks kinda weird tbh.
Well then, thats another worry gone :)
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I somehow feel that this map is pretty inspired by Blitzkrieg game map-style.
You got pretty nicely organized town, train station with cargo bay and that kind of building arrangements. Then, plain open fields which is very sensible in place. Must be a very tactical map.
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That's true, it is exactly like Blitzkrieg. The amount of train stations in that game was perplexing.
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now we can do tractor armed with panzerschrecks...must be awesome.
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Nice pics. But too bad those craters aren't filled to the brim with panther and pz4 wrecks, like they were irl :)
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Nice pics. But too bad those craters aren't filled to the brim with panther and pz4 wrecks, like they were irl :)
to bad. They would've made nice cover
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Nice pics. But too bad those craters aren't filled to the brim with panther and pz4 wrecks, like they were irl :)
Mudra stop it. Get down boy.
It has already been stated multiple times that this map is for huge tank battles + infantry skirmishes with a good performance for everyone. And there are wrecks, mostly around the village/train station.
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It's a 1024 map, with a bunch of vehicles, vegetation, some detailed positions like the city and needs some distance view or the pilots won't see crap: we can't place millions hedgerows and wrecks so lay off the issue.
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Just imagine that the vehicles destroyed by carpet bombing were all direct hits so they were completely obliterated.
:)
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Map looks awesome thanks for the extra pics :)
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these pics gave me more inspiration to continue mapping!
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That's true, it is exactly like Blitzkrieg. The amount of train stations in that game was perplexing.
Player Panzerkrieg? It is the newest version,now you got even an armoured train on each map of the Poland campaign!
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Oh shit really? I'm gonna google the update right now
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This map promises a different kind of tank combat compared to other Normandy maps... Me likey
@ Von Mudra
too many tank wrecks = lag with little benefit. You don't need more tanks for cover, you have the craters. It needs to play well for both ground AND air forces
Sorry for so much flak Ben, it really is a lovely map. That much, I don't think anyone argues with and more importantly, it appears to be a potentially fun map too
If distant sound is done further by 2.25, I can imagine quite an interesting battlefield :-)
Again to my question, what wil you rate this as in regards to percentage real-to-life?
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@ Von Mudra
too many tank wrecks = lag with little benefit. You don't need more tanks for cover, you have the craters. It needs to play well for both ground AND air forces
What are you talking about? I don't want them for cover, I want a couple panther hulks to show what happened to the german armour, it was obliterated.=/
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just taken apart both arguments, man... First agument suffices in this case... LAG - think about the planes and their wide perspective
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What are you talking about? I don't want them for cover, I want a couple panther hulks to show what happened to the german armour, it was obliterated.=/
I think there are at least 3 or 4 panther wrecks about + a few others. But really, you'd expect the bombed out tanks to be in bases and such, while all the craters on this map are in the fields.
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@ Von Mudra
too many tank wrecks = lag with little benefit. You don't need more tanks for cover, you have the craters. It needs to play well for both ground AND air forces
What are you talking about? I don't want them for cover, I want a couple panther hulks to show what happened to the german armour, it was obliterated.=/
that was after the battle, here you play the battle - before the german armour was obliterated.
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@ Von Mudra
too many tank wrecks = lag with little benefit. You don't need more tanks for cover, you have the craters. It needs to play well for both ground AND air forces
What are you talking about? I don't want them for cover, I want a couple panther hulks to show what happened to the german armour, it was obliterated.=/
that was after the battle, here you play the battle - before the german armour was obliterated.
Wrong. The german armour was obliterated by the allied aerial bombing, which hit the Panzer Lehr Division's tank assembly areas dead on. 70% casualties before the american attack even had begun. Considering this map shows the massive cratering from the bombing, that means the map takes place immedietly after that bombing.
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Isnt there a limit for "hill" in BF2?
I heard if the map has tooooooooo many hills, craters, or any other terrain modification the game will crash..
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I heard if a map has too many colours it will crash.
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Sorry for so much flak Ben, it really is a lovely map. That much, I don't think anyone argues with and more importantly, it appears to be a potentially fun map too
THX :)
Isnt there a limit for "hill" in BF2?
I heard if the map has tooooooooo many hills, craters, or any other terrain modification the game will crash..
I heard if a map has too many colours it will crash.
I heard if too many people are talking before the release about a map, the game will crash.
@VonMudra: You know what happened, so you don´t need it all in the map. Guys pointed out that there are wrecks just not hundreds of them. Those few will remind people like you enough so they can imagine what they are standing for. Also as pointed out, more of them doesn´t add anything to gameplay since the craters are good enough to take cover.
Give up here or battle with the flyboys so we can reduce the viewdistance heavily and add some wrecks more. I guess there are only a few people that realy want that.
Going to your accuracy rules you should realy make clear that tanks do not respawn after being destroyed. That would be a point i would respect much more than the wrecks. That would give a totaly different gameplay - wrecks not (i understand your point with the wrecks too, but fact is there are wrecks just not an insane number becaue they take performance, its not the static itself, it the fire and the smoke too).
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yeah great looking map, I must say that this looks like a potential new favourite map of mine! may even beat my absolut favourite: Sidi Rezegh!
Nice work on it!
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Everyone should just wait and see how this one plays. There is no need to antagonize Benseras with stupid comments about his first map for FH2. After we have played it once 2.25 is released I'm sure Benseras is willing to do changes if they are really needed. Although I'd like to see this one more like Von Mudra proposes so that germs would need to relay more on fausts and paks than tanks. But its best to see how this one works before doing so drastic changes.
EDIT: Forgot to thank you for showing us the minimap!
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On an other thing, why hasnt this update shown up on planetbattlefield? I miss major boogan (or however you write it) his awsome comments, and lobo's even more awsome combacks :)
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Hate to sound like a spoilt record, but
Again to my question, what wil you rate this as in regards to percentage real-to-life?
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Sorry but i would reply if i could understand the question entirely :D
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It's 100% real to FH2.
::)
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Sorry but i would reply if i could understand the question entirely :D
About a year ago Lightning told us the approximate percentage of how close to real life the maps are. He estimated that for example Fall of Tobruk was close to 100% realistic in terms of kit load outs, fighting forces, map statics, location etc. That map was entirely made after aerial photos and the like if I recall correctly. Giarabub was also modeled almost entirely after photos.
Djinn wants to know how close to real life your map is.
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On a scale where Purple Heart Lane is 100% and Aberdeen is 0% ;)
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On an other thing, why hasnt this update shown up on planetbattlefield? I miss major boogan (or however you write it) his awsome comments, and lobo's even more awsome combacks :)
This made me look up some news updates there. Hilarity ensued http://forumplanet.gamespy.com/news_feature_comments/b49146/20125866/p1 (http://forumplanet.gamespy.com/news_feature_comments/b49146/20125866/p1)
And Meadow, you go girl ;D
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The PlanetBattlefield trolls train in the trolls range every day, that's sure. It's hard to find a more vicious swamp in any other games website.
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Sorry but i would reply if i could understand the question entirely :D
About a year ago Lightning told us the approximate percentage of how close to real life the maps are. He estimated that for example Fall of Tobruk was close to 100% realistic in terms of kit load outs, fighting forces, map statics, location etc. That map was entirely made after aerial photos and the like if I recall correctly. Giarabub was also modeled almost entirely after photos.
Djinn wants to know how close to real life your map is.
Well, never heard about that (i´m not browsing the forums often and haven´t done it for a year or so).
I respect lightnings words but i can´t imagine that 100% thing and to what that real life ratio it should be related.
Since i don´t know the real life ratio (you tell statics, kits etc... but its obvious that there will be always little or bigger differences to RL) i can´t tell you a right percentage number.
I can tell you that Cobra is a map that represents the opening of cobra, perhaps with points to the later days also. Its clear that such "Operation" maps can never be 1:1 creations. They must have a wide spectrum in one map. So you pick out some elements of the operation and you are doing the best you can.
Here it was the hilly terrain around hebecrevon, the village itself what couldn´t be recreated (too big and detailed for a 1024 map), elements like carpet bombing (craters), weather conditions (heavy overcast shortly before the opening) reflected by the sky as well as ground textures and water levels (lol), army appearance and weapons, vehicles being used during cobra etc...
But as told, the thing with the german planes is at least one compromise. The whole map is a compromise since such an operation map can´t show a total real life conversion. That was clear from the begining of map making. So as a mapper you have kind of much freedom wich doesn´t mean that easy to bring all together.
So that must be enough - you´ll never get such percentage values from me yet or when i have done map based on a real conversion;-)
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So I can estimate it to be something to the percentage realism of Mareth line... Or Tobruk? Please don't say Arberdeen
I'm sure in time, once its played a bit, the history buffs will be able to tell me the aproximate degree
@ Lobo
Man, that was some harsh treatment on the forum - Thank god we really don't give a rat's ass about such trolling otherwise it will make one do a double-take - Personally, inspite of my ever-call for optimization, I really do like FH2 for what it is - Pitty alot of clearly-COD fans don't quite get it - or don't want to
They actually thought they were being civil back there?
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On an other thing, why hasnt this update shown up on planetbattlefield? I miss major boogan (or however you write it) his awsome comments, and lobo's even more awsome combacks :)
This made me look up some news updates there. Hilarity ensued http://forumplanet.gamespy.com/news_feature_comments/b49146/20125866/p1 (http://forumplanet.gamespy.com/news_feature_comments/b49146/20125866/p1)
And Meadow, you go girl ;D
Haha, pure gold :)
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I read the whole thing and I was thinking...LMG's suck!!!!!! My favorite is the MG42 and 34 because they are like the devils personal saws. they aren't "nerfed" in any way, you just need to know how to use them especially the MG42/34. And did he seriously complain about not being able to fire while standing? Let me see him try that with one of them. Also, the rifle is the most powerful weapon in the game because they have range, stopping power, and are light. It just seems as if those guy didn't play the mod, and they were complaining about the LMG sights how they can't retract after standing, which isn't a problem because you cannot fire the LMG standing! Well, with that said, nice update, looking forward to the next patch.
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especially the MG42/34. And did he seriously complain about not being able to fire while standing? Let me see him try that with one of them.
Don't get me started.
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especially the MG42/34. And did he seriously complain about not being able to fire while standing? Let me see him try that with one of them.
Don't get me started.
you have stories!!! do tell
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Man, Lobo, you get attacked from everywhere!
Unleash the LGG!
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Will the Americans get the Greasegun or the thompson on this map?
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LOL i read all the shit on the gamespy plannetbattlefield and i suddenly feel the urge to thank you all again ;D
Hahahahahaha ok..no wait.. hahahaha
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especially the MG42/34. And did he seriously complain about not being able to fire while standing? Let me see him try that with one of them.
Don't get me started.
you have stories!!! do tell
Its been a well established fact on this forum that in real life, german MG troops were trained to fire the MG34 and 42 from a standing position known as the "assualt position" in controlled bursts that were accurate to about 50-70 yards or so, as a way of giving assualt cover, and using the MG as a kind of shotgun. The problem is that in this game, you'd have people abusing it nonstop, so its not in game for that reason.
http://www.stormthewalls.kicks-ass.net/MG42/FULL/Sturmfeuer.wmv
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especially the MG42/34. And did he seriously complain about not being able to fire while standing? Let me see him try that with one of them.
Don't get me started.
you have stories!!! do tell
Its been a well established fact on this forum that in real life, german MG troops were trained to fire the MG34 and 42 from a standing position known as the "assualt position" in controlled bursts that were accurate to about 50-70 yards or so, as a way of giving assualt cover, and using the MG as a kind of shotgun. The problem is that in this game, you'd have people abusing it nonstop, so its not in game for that reason.
http://www.stormthewalls.kicks-ass.net/MG42/FULL/Sturmfeuer.wmv
nvm then....
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especially the MG42/34. And did he seriously complain about not being able to fire while standing? Let me see him try that with one of them.
Don't get me started.
you have stories!!! do tell
Its been a well established fact on this forum that in real life, german MG troops were trained to fire the MG34 and 42 from a standing position known as the "assualt position" in controlled bursts that were accurate to about 50-70 yards or so, as a way of giving assualt cover, and using the MG as a kind of shotgun. The problem is that in this game, you'd have people abusing it nonstop, so its not in game for that reason.
http://www.stormthewalls.kicks-ass.net/MG42/FULL/Sturmfeuer.wmv
nvm then....
Not this shit again ... we have a thread in the old FF dedicated to this http://forums.filefront.com/fh2-suggestions/364828-submachineguns-vs-machineguns-8.html (http://forums.filefront.com/fh2-suggestions/364828-submachineguns-vs-machineguns-8.html)
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What shit? I laid it out plain and simple. Yes in real life it happened. No it won't be ingame because of balencing/spamming issues. What shit?
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Yes but bringing it up everytime while the answer is obvious and well known is useless and annoying.
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I was simply correcting Fox =/
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And I was simply explaining their reaction :P
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I was simply correcting Fox =/
Good luck with that... Oh you mean Fuchs not FOX...
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Noh. He means DesertFOX. Al Jazeera.
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Its been a well established fact on this forum that in real life, german MG troops were trained to fire the MG34 and 42 from a standing position known as the "assualt position" in controlled bursts that were accurate to about 50-70 yards or so, as a way of giving assualt cover, and using the MG as a kind of shotgun. The problem is that in this game, you'd have people abusing it nonstop, so its not in game for that reason.
http://www.stormthewalls.kicks-ass.net/MG42/FULL/Sturmfeuer.wmv
German propaganda
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That's our Lobo <hugs him> so cute :3
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Ramboing with the mg42/30cal in dods was always a bit fun/silly. But it was ridiculous so it fit more in that game.
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It could be added in a way similar to PR's MG deployment system, where you could fire it standing up but you move very slow well doing it and have very bad recoil.
This is actually something I support adding to the Bren as well, because while it could be fired standing up I doubt it was an easy feat to do well running. The fact that you can do this in game effectively makes it into a high powered SMG at short ranges.
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What shit? I laid it out plain and simple. Yes in real life it happened. No it won't be ingame because of balencing/spamming issues. What shit?
Figure of speech, don't take it personally. I find these recurring discussions amusing.