Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Suggestions => Topic started by: Professor Anthrax on 16-07-2012, 20:07:30
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I have been playing this mod since 2.0 and this is the first time I have ever posted a thread in the suggestions section of the forum. I am one of those die hards who have helped keep this mod alive in the US by almost always making it to first wolf(and now WaW) Thursdays and WaW pubby Friday games. Overall I have found this mod EXCELLENT as it has developed over the years.
Giarabub 16 was AWESOME as it was and I wish it could be reverted back to how it was in 2.4 and before for the next release. In the 2.45 feedback thread in the "general discussion" section of the forum I suggested that if you wanted to make it into a King of the hill style map, then make the mosque the focus of the action. But PLEASE...don't even do that, Just completely "un-king of the hill" this map and make it back the way it was.
I (and I believe many others) loved it just as it was. The mosque fight was usually the most epic but it was nice having that added dynamic of fighting over the village too.
I did notice an occasional extra ladder and break in a wall here or there that might be ok and may have even enhanced it a little, but please return both flags where they were and the regular game mode tickets to this map. Please Please, Please!
This map had become almost a ritual(along with lebisey 16) when player numbers dropped on Wolf(R.I.P.) and now WaW Pubby play nights. Now its gone until this 'fixing' of something that was never broke gets rectified.
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Despite being a betatester this change somehow missed my sights. I must put resounding support behind you Anthrax, 16p Giarabub was a gem amoungst the 16p maps.
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Quote of Natty
Re: FH2.45 Feedback
« Reply #75 on: Today at 07:38:47 »
@Professor Anthrax; I implemented all of the k.o.t.h. modes on the maps. I actually never had time to test Giarabub-16 that much, but remember trying to find a good / balanced flag location around the mosque.
It was very hard to make it equal for both teams around that place due to the layout, entrances, cover etc.
However, I don't mind taking another look at it, could be that it fits better for the koth mode :) As a thumbrule I always try to place the k.o.t.h. flag in the most important / special place on the maps, but in my mind, the entire fort of Giarabub is special, so I felt it didn't matter where the flag was, as long as it provided equal fun for both teams. I could take another look at the mosque and see if the k.o.t.h flag fits better in there.
thx for the feedback!
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Echoed Anthrax's statements in that thread. If ever there was a 16-size map I'd rather be left as it was, it would be Giarabub.
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Quote of Natty
Re: FH2.45 Feedback
« Reply #75 on: Today at 07:38:47 »
@Professor Anthrax; I implemented all of the k.o.t.h. modes on the maps. I actually never had time to test Giarabub-16 that much, but remember trying to find a good / balanced flag location around the mosque.
It was very hard to make it equal for both teams around that place due to the layout, entrances, cover etc.
However, I don't mind taking another look at it, could be that it fits better for the koth mode :) As a thumbrule I always try to place the k.o.t.h. flag in the most important / special place on the maps, but in my mind, the entire fort of Giarabub is special, so I felt it didn't matter where the flag was, as long as it provided equal fun for both teams. I could take another look at the mosque and see if the k.o.t.h flag fits better in there.
thx for the feedback!
Thank you for quoting Natty's reply from my mention of this in the 2.45 feedback thread Nissi, but his response merely says that he will take a look at changing the location of the single KOTH flag. So...this means there's NO consideration of just putting it back the way it was with two flags? Or will this possibly be considered if you all get additional negative feedback from others on the new version? If you guys have just made up your mind on this that it WILL STAY a KOTH style map and thats that, then I am one sad Professor Anthrax :'(
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A sad professor Anthrax is like having Grabbi in a good mood.
It doesn't happen.
I will reserve comment for now because i haven't yet played G16 but I do agree that it was by far a perfect map that needed no changes whatsoever.
Although grapple hooks would be welcomed back with open arms.
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anyone that played in n.a. times would whole heartidly agree with professor. others that never got to (or never had to, due to more players) may not have experienced the maps awesomeness!
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Add me to the list of guys that want this map changed back to the way it was please! Or, alternatively, keep it the way it is and turn the 32 version into what the 16 player version was. The 32 version with the Oasis flag that has to be capped first doesn't seem to get any play at all, whereas the 16 player version was usually played twice a night in North America: once to start the server, and again to end it. Also, it was one of the most requested maps. I don't believe I ever saw a single complaint from anyone when it came up. Seemed to be universally liked, which is saying something. So please, please bring it back to us.
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Not trying to be a dick, but so far this is around 10 votes for a return to the old Giarabub and I don't see anyone saying the new version's better. The God awful truth is that whenever we do Giarabub 16 now on the WaW server, there's the odd person seeing it for the first time and it kinda sucks having to watch a new person realize the map has been butchered every time you play it.
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As an admin of two of the most populated FH2 institutions in north America of the past decade, I bring you informed opinion.
YES!
1. Bring back Giarabub 16 the way it was - it was a player favorite.
This was hands down, the most played 16 player map, and one of the most played maps on all the North American servers combined. Everyone is pissed off about it being gone. It was a key map used not only to start the servers going and get them populated, but also was a player favorite, requested at all other times. It had the best combination of tactical possibilities while affording players various ways to play in an urban environment that had both close quarters street fighting and long range small arms engagements. It offered the sniper and sneaky saboteur the same opportunity to have fun as the frontal assault power gamer.
2. The new King of the hill version is terrible.
There is no room to maneuver. Borders are mismarked, leading to confusion about where you can and can't go. it affords no opportunity for tactical or thoughtful or interesting gameplay. It's just a spam fest and smine camper cartoon. There are no kits. It is not fun.
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Despite being a betatester this change somehow missed my sights. I must put resounding support behind you Anthrax, 16p Giarabub was a gem amoungst the 16p maps.
I did spot this change before release, but it was so close to release I didn't bother saying anything. We were were already overdue for a release, and it is just one map. We also got several new small maps, and I think they are good ones.
Nevertheless, I too think we should return Giarabub 16 to (more or less) how it was before.
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I got another idea, compare to old Gia 16 or koth, Gia 32 is much worse. Basically Gia 32 is a harder version of Gia 64 where the Aussies get less spawnpoint, less arty, less armor. In many WAW pubby night, they can't capture even the first flag. If devs are so keen on koth, why not replace Gia 32 with the old Gia 16.
Besides I think it's possible for the server admin to do this replace himself. In my experience the flag/spawnpoint distribution, vehicles and playable area can be decided by server.
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Yes, bring back Giarabub 16 classic please! In the annals of FPS multiplayer maps, it ranks right up there with the best like UT's Facing Worlds, CS's Dust, Halo's Blood Gulch, Descent's Minerva, etc.
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Instead of playing Giarabub 16, I now quit the map and go twiddle my thumbs somewhere.
i also do the same with Gazala 16, as it gets frustrating to deal with the constant barrage of complaints about the new version.
Change them both please. Some of the King of the hill versions can be fun in moderation (eppel and Voss are fun'ish but when they suck as much as Bub 16 and Gazala 16, all they do is showcase the worst aspects of the mod.
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@sheik: Are there many complaints about Gazala 16? That one at least was already a fight over a single flag so they they didn't have to change the flag layout at all to convert that into a KOTH mode map. I played Gazala 16 just last night and found it as fun as it ever was. Not at all like bub 16, where to convert it into a KOTH they had to reduce it from two to one cappable flag which totally messed it up.
@Carrion(and still Sheik a little): I do also like some of the new small maps we've gotten and I do appreciate them. I don't want this to sound like a total bitchfest on my part that I'm saying 2.45 is total crap just because of bub 16. Overall I LOVE this latest patch. The new small maps:
-Vossenack 16 is a fun fight over that awesome church at the center of that map. Even on the big version of this map, that church is pretty much my favorite area to fight over anyway so the 16 of that reduces it down to the best part of it.
-Keren 16 is a FUN fight over the train station on that map.
-Falaise 16 has a lot of potential and might possibly become a new 'classic' 16 map. My only issue is that the last couple times I played we Canadians got totally STOPPED before we could get a single flag. Don't know if it needs moderate re-working or if the Canadians just need to learn to fight that one over time.
-I like the two new night time 32's of Keren and Eppeldorf.
Some of the big maps are much nicer now too:
- Bardia: OMFG! It looks amazing now! I had always liked this map but many didn't like to play it simply because (as an original 2.0 map) it was kinda fugly next to newer maps that had been released over the years. Won't have that problem anymore.
- Op. Cobra: Not only does this one look much nicer like Bardia but also plays better with push preventing back capping of the church or airfield.
- Crete looks nicer and has more vegetation.
I could go on.
Overall I LOVE this new patch. I just wish they didn't have to mess up a FAVORITE, POPULAR, CLASSIC original map to bring us all these other positive changes.
I guess part of the problem is that most of the devs are in Europe and they mostly play on European servers. Those servers are full most of the time so many of them never had smaller maps on their rotations. So they were just never aware of what a 'cult favorite' some of these 16's(Bub, Lebisey, Luttich) had become on the other side of the Atlantic on our "not always so fully populated server".
@ Eightball & Kingtiger: I certainly would not miss the 32 of Giarabub if the devs wanted to bring back classic bub 16 in the form of the new 32 version in the next release. It played well with anywhere from 20 to 40 people.
[Speaking of 32's, and not to get my own thread too off topic but my only map complaint other than Giarabub 16 is the 32 of Mt. Olympus. The original was completely wiped away and replaced with some deathmatch 'thing' with no flags, no objectives, no nothing. But the loss of Olympus 32 is somewhat compensated for by the fact that they did tighten up the 64 of Olympus with the removal of at least one (possibly two?) flags so that it should play better now with only 30-40 people.]
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@sheik: Are there many complaints about Gazala 16? That one at least was already a fight over a single flag so they they didn't have to change the flag layout at all to convert that into a KOTH mode map. I played Gazala 16 just last night and found it as fun as it ever was. Not at all like bub 16, where to convert it into a KOTH they had to reduce it from two to one cappable flag which totally messed it up.
Totally agree. Gazala 16 was already a kind of KOTH map before the mode existed. The new version work very well and is a lot of fun.
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I gotta say, as a long time player and fan of the WOLF/ WAW thursdays. I can reiterate that this map was a wonderful map to play and should be changed back to the way it was. Even if you want to keep the koth mode at least put the 16 player map back in some layer or form because its a shame to loose something that's helping to keep the NA player base alive.
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Tunis 16 has spawn issues.
Keren & Vosseneck 16 is fun.
Girabub 16 is worse.
Sidi Rezegh 16 needs axis pushed back to hangar. They are too close and Brits have a very hard time getting to flags.
8)
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So...What do you say devs? Any chance we'll see good 'old' bub 16 back in FH 2.5? Well over a dozen responses with not a single one preferring the new version. The number of responses becomes all the more impressive when you realize that this size of this map was mainly played just in the US where the player base is relatively small. And the most awesome thing about this suggestion is that it doesn't take any new work from you already hard working devs since the old version must still exist from 2.4 on one of your hard drives ;D
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Woohoo! I am happy for any part this thread may have played in what gavrant has reported over at the map feedback section of the forum thread for Giarabub 16:
"Giarabub reverted to its former pre-2.45 glory without King of the Hill mode."
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=69.0 (http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=69.0)
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Guys, one huge request: please post (double?) feedback on any specific map in the corresponding map feedback thread here. It's impossible to scan all the forum for reported issues. For example, I would not know about the spawning issue on Tunis 16 if Lighting would not described it on the internal forum. Also, please don't be discouraged if you don't get an immediate response on your feedback, this doesn't mean that it is ignored by map maintainers.
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Woohoo! I am happy for any part this thread may have played in what gavrant has reported over at the map feedback section of the forum thread for Giarabub 16:
"Giarabub reverted to its former pre-2.45 glory without King of the Hill mode."
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=69.0 (http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=69.0)
Huzzah! Victory is ours!
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This showed me immediately that FH2 was back on the right track again. +100 team points to all involved in making this happen again.
You cannot underestimate the need for small maps in this game, where for anyone in the far western hemisphere we only have 10-30 players to work with on most nights (if we're lucky). And this has been the case for 5 years.
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Now I feel kind of bad that we didn't include a new 16p layer in 2.46. So I made this:
(http://i.imgur.com/OMxEBkS.jpg)
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NICE! :D Although I'm not always a fan of KotH. The fact that Omaha can have a proper 16 layer for us Thursday-Nighters is great news 8)
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Right on. I don't want to clog up this thread with this but, yeah we need 16 and 32's of every map (every new one anyway).
We've been at this a long time, and even the european crowd needs the maps, just not as desperately.
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Should've centered the fighting area around the town tbh.
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Should've centered the fighting area around the town tbh.
Agreed. Smaller layers should always try to cover the less played parts of the maps. Like it's on PHL or Keren...