*MASSIVE SPOILERS* The Force Awakens - Discussion

[Wilhelm]

I want to start talking about Star Wars: The Force Awakens, so this thread is for discussion among those who have seen it or do not care about spoilers. 

This will keep the other thread from becoming a no-go zone for those wishing to be free of spoilers.

*** FINAL WARNING: MASSIVE SPOILERS BELOW ***

[Wilhelm]

There is a lot that could be talked about, but I will start with the 'revelation' of each character's identity.

I liked how each of the new characters turned out to be something other than what many speculated or was expected from the trailers and pre-release details.

Finn

He is not related to anyone (that we know of) and doesn't even have a real name. The name 'Finn' is created from his Storm Trooper designation: FN - 2187.  He also turns out not to be the force sensitive one in the new cast.

A detail I liked was the comment about Finn's insubordination referring to the type of soldier he is:  The Storm Troopers of the First Order are children recruited from a young age and made into soldiers as opposed to being clones.  This is a nice nod to the Clone Wars, the Storm Troopers of the Empire (depending on what the true canon is), etc. 

I like how there are a mix of origins for what a Storm Trooper can be molded from. In this situation, Finn is branded a 'traitor' by his peers and commanders for defecting, showing that these soldiers have free will, despite being indoctrinated.

Rey

She is not related to anyone (that we know of).  Speculation was that she was going to be the Solo child, but turns out she is the force sensitive one and also a character in the mold of Han Solo...basically, her character is a hybrid of Luke and Han.  I thought her character was the stand out of the film and am perfectly fine with her filling the dual role of Han and Luke.

She is awesome!

Kylo Ren

I had no idea that Kylo was going to be Leia and Han's son!  I thought his character being sort of a reverse Luke Skywalker was pretty interesting.  He is definitely an interesting character....but poor Han!

I personally thought Chewbacca was going to be the one to die in this film...

Old Cast

Han Solo and Chewbacca were great!  I also liked the look of Luke.  Everyone else was fine, too. 


Chemistry:

Harrison Ford as Han Solo was great with everyone, and Boyega and Ridley had great chemistry together!  I liked the humor of the film...overall, it was a much more funny film than dramatic.  The humor was good, but the drama didn't make as much of an impact as it could have.

[Wulfburk]

Rey was freaking awesome. Big fan of her now lol  She acted perfectly, and a really interesting character even before she realized about the force and all. Plus she was quite beautiful lol.

VERY Much surprised by Kylo Ren, in a good way. All of the emotional struggle did show off, and the guy acted quite well. Finally a sith who portrayed all the doubts he was supposed to have quite realistically and well.

Han Solo and Chewie, nothing to say it. Ford aced it, like he always did.

Finn was quite cool too.



Honestly... i was really expecting a really bad film.... i didnt like any of the trailers... but... seriously...

SERIOUSLY. Its better than Return of the Jedi, to say nothing of The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones.... (doesnt reaches 3,4,5 in my opinion though).


Best parts: All from Rey... specially the interrogation scene with Kylo. But the battle scenes did feel more realistic and "dirty" than what we got before, so that was a good thing too.

Lame parts: Another super weapon, really?
Finn managing to wound Kylo in the duel... Rey beating him was awesome but believable since he was basically an apprentice as well... and had all the doubts and fears... and kinda a coward maybe... While Rey knew to fight normally too, like she showed back in the junkyard in Jakku.

But Finn wounding Kylo in the shoulder was kinda a push.

The stormtroopers new helmet. Looks bad IMO. (been saying it since i saw it in the trailers)


ANd ah.. thats it.




Most surprising though was seing Yound Odda from the Last Kingdom tv series from BBC being one of the gang leaders coming after Han Solo, lol. (the one with the accent)

[Captain Pyjama Shark]

I'm very conflicted.  I really, really wanted to like that film, (I even dressed up for the premiere last night), but I'm not sure that I did.

The good:

• Finn and Rey are both great.  Rey (who I bet is Luke's daughter, making her and "Ben" cousins) was excellent, and had good chemistry with Finn, who was also very well done as a lovable sort of dork.   
• It was ingenious the way trailers made it look like Finn was going to be the Force-sensitive one, not Rey        (and apparently, lightsabers aren't all that hard to use)
• BB-8 was pretty cute, especially when he was boopin down the stairs.
• Blaster fight scenes were good.  They captured the power of the blasters.  I also liked when Rey forgot to turn the safety on her's. Light saber fights were good to, very raw, not like the silly choreographed ones of the prequels.
• I like how the new Stormtroopers are janissaries.

The bad:

• The X-Wing dogfights were waaaaaay inferior to those in the Original Trilogy.  The one at the end reminded me a lot of the space battle in the Phantom Menace.  Unlike the Battle of Yavin, which expertly mimics WW2 films like The Dambusters, this one really felt shallow.  Like how Poe Dameron effortlessly kills 7 Ties in about three seconds.  In the Original Trilogy, even expert pilots like Luke and Wedge only make a few kills.  A lot of the fun of these scenes comes from shots in the cockpits of pilots, and this film only had one or two.  I was very disappointed.  Also, they should of had B-Wings for the ground attack role, not only X-Wings.
• The fact that the big bad plan is EXACTLY the same as in a New Hope and Return of the Jedi, to the point where they lampshade it in the absurdly short briefing before the big battle.  One of the big problems with the EU was that every fucking book or game was about some dumb new superweapon.  The way it happened in this movie made it feel more like fanfiction to me.
• The pacing really felt off to me.  It was fun and pulpy as Star Wars should be, but also too much so.  There was very little exposition, and many of the scenes that should have been very powerful (like Han dying, or Han and Leia reuniting, didn't pack as much of a punch as they should have.  Even the final battle seemed to wrap up unsatisfactorily to me.
• Captain Phasma.  Lame, unnecessary, apparently low ranking enough to be on first-name basis with Stormtroopers, dumped offscreen at the end.  Why have her in the film?
• New storm trooper armour sucks. 

The ambiguous:

• I don't know what to feel about the New Order and the Resistance.  Why is there a Resistance?  Are they people who live within the New Order's territory?  And what is the New Order?  Are they pro-Empire neo Nazis?  How powerful are they?  One problem with the Stars Wars EU is that literally all conflicts are between a Republic and an Empire, whether it be Sith or Galactic.  See KOTOR for an example.  Wouldn't it have been cooler if the bad guys were remnants of the normal Empire?  And more ambigious, not just standard evil people? 
• On that last note: What the fuck is up with Supreme Leader Snoke?  At least he wasn't actually thirty feet tall (then I would have been pissed), but still, I don't like it.  Hell, bring back Grand Admiral Thrawn, he would have been a way cooler antagonist.
• Unsure about Kylo Ren.  It was alarming disappointing when he removed his helmet and revealed himself to be a stupid little ponce.  But maybe he'll be able to pull it off - we'll see.

For the moment, I'm giving it a 3/5.  I feel a little let down.  But I'll go see it again and think it over in the meantime.

[Flippy Warbear]

The movie had everything going for it. Great actors playing interesting characters, locations, themes... they had the keys but refused to use them. Unfortunately the movie ended up being more or less A New Hope with changed characters, their roles and locations, otherwise it was more or less the same. This was the biggest problem of the movie. One could start shooting all sorts of holes into the entire film but that'd be pointless since you can do the exact same with the previous films too, so I wont.

It started so strong but when the heroes get to that forest planet with the obvious Mos Eisley cantina scene, I realised that wait a minute, I've already seen this movie. Started thinking back to previous scenes and noticed all the similarities with ANH. So at first I thought maybe that is just a very weird coincident or I am just imagining things... and then it kept going on the same way as it did, ruining the experience.

It was entertaining, yes. It was amazing looking, sounding and it had everything going for it... but the story recycled from ANH made me salty about it. I'd say it is still worth a movie ticket but it definitely doesnt deserve all the praise that it is getting. It didnt feel like a new chapter in the story due to recycling plot, rather than a massive tribute and fan service flick, nod towards the original trilogy after another. At times it seemed like it didnt offer anything but references towards the old movies so people who crew up with them would approve this movie better. At times it felt very forced. Not hating the movie since it had a lot going for it, but playing it very safe ruined it for me.

Chewie was the best.  I could have watched him kicking ass for two hours.

[Kelmola]

Rey

She is not related to anyone (that we know of). 

Either she's a Skywalker or the biggest red herring in recent memory.

EDIT: She can't be a Solo, since the casting call for Rey ("Rachel" if you were part of the spoiler game) did not specify any ethnicity. Having the child of two Caucasians be of any other colour would not fly, but with suitable make-up and suspension of disbelief, black or Asian actress would perhaps pass for a multi-ethnic person, allowing her to be Luke's daughter - her mother would be a small part and could be cast afterwards.

• A big issue is made of her parentage, which even she supposedly does not remember (well, at the age of five when she was left on Jakku, she probably only knew them as "Mum" and "Dad", never mind knowign exactly what they do). I'm assuming that the "Classified? Me too." is a joke, and she just doesn't remember. However, in the critical scene when she gets the flashbacks, we do not see or hear her parents. If she was "no one", they could have been two random extras because we wouldn't know them or see them again.
• Though, bedtime stories told by parents could well stay in the memory better than other events. She may have had tales of X-Wing pilots. Or maybe her father or mother was one? This is because she has that pilot ragdoll and still playfull wears a pilot helmet (which must be in abundance on Jakku - then again, I haven't watched the original trilogy in slo-mo to find out if it is the helmet of eg. Wedge Antilles). Then again, a significant turning point in Luke's life involves flying an X-Wing...
• The Force starts calling to Rey only when she comes into vicinity of Skywalker family lightsabre, which should not have much meaning to "no one" besides being a cool collectible
• Maz Kanata, who has lived a thousand years or more and is said to hear lots of rumours being the barkeeper for shady individuals, seems VERY certain that Rey's parents aren't coming for her, and the only family she will have is Luke. Figuratively or literally? (Also, in the leaked shooting schedule, Rey's vision - which was induced by Maz who is a non-Jedi Force user - includes a scene where Maz retrieves the lightsabre from the ruins of the Jedi Academy. Clearly, she knows much more than she admits.)
• Lor San Tekka, who personally knows Leia from way back, and is some sort of a figure in a "Jedi religion" (per Visual Dictionary), just happens to live in a village next door to Rey, and just happens to have a portion of the map leading to Luke (if it was just an old Jedi artifact, it would obviously have the whole map to the first Jedi Temple, instead of a portion matching perfectly to the censored map hidden in R2-D2). Random chance, right...
• The Millennium Falcon ends up in the hands of Rey's "employer" Unkar Plutt. Either the Force at work (then again, why would Force so specifically care about a "no one"?) or maybe someone "influenced" each gang through the Force to steal the Falcon in turn to cover its trail, and to ensure that Rey would have a speedy escape ship available when prequels hit the fan.
• R2, having been in power-saving mode for years, suddenly feels the need to reactivate and show his part of the map leading to Luke right now.... was his speech-recognition software running or what? And why would it be tuned to Rey?
• Anakin Skywalker, the physical incarnation of the Force itself, was skilled with machines (then again, fixing stuff was his job as child labor) and had rapid reflexes (well someone had to test the podracers he fixed!). His son Luke used to bullseye womprats in his T-16 and with some guidance, could use Force to augment his targeting at Battle of Yavin. What I mean is that without training, the two most powerful Force users in living memory could only use the Force to slightly augment their natural talents. However, even though both of them had heard stories of the Jedi doing stuff, neither could pull off mind tricks, mind reading, telekinesis, the works, without years of training. Luke, having been guided by Obi-Wan's spirit, could after three years only barely call the lightsabre to him. Without any training, Rey is supposed to pull the saber away from BenKylo, who had x years of training with Luke and 12-odd years with Snoke? Either JJ & Co. are going the way of "there is another" (who was supposed to be a separate person from Luke's sister and Leia, who were also supposed to be separate persons, until Lucas got bored while making Jedi and decided to combine them and end the tale at Eppy 6), or there is More Than Meets The Eye(tm) in Rey.
• Speaking of technical aptitude and innate piloting skills, Rey seems to share these traits with Anakin and Luke.
• Who trained Rey (since I'm not believing one moment she wasn't at least for a while)? Clearly, it was not Snoke since he is unaware of her. Hmmm, who was the last Jedi again?
• Included in Rey's vision is her past, present, and near-future. Then why is BenKylo's school shooting at the Jedi Academy included? Does the Force show it to her just like that,  or was she a survivor?
• Assuming she was a survivor of Kylombine High, Rey was abandoned as a five-year old, per the casting calls she is 17 or 18. So the Jedi Massacre took place 12 years ago, about 18 years after ROTJ. Kylo looks a grown-up (maybe a little shorter in stature?) already in the flashback so this would roughly match (as TFA is some 30 years after ROTJ). Notably, it is implied that Luke and R2 had been away and only came to the scene after Kylo and the Knighst Who Say Ren had departed (obviously Luke would have mopped the floor with Kylo and the Renites had he been there - the others are not even shown to be using lightsabres).
• Why would her parents abandon her? This would imply that her parents were in danger too. As far as we know based on the movie, Kylo and Snoke are only obsessed in finding and killing Luke, not some random parents whose Force-sensitive child they would have supposedly already killed. Maybe Luke never even told Rey that mother had been killed also?
• The one thing both Lucas and Disney agree on is that Star Wars is all about the Skywalker family. Hands up, who thinks that childkiller and fatherkiller Ben Solo can redeem himself in any way that does not involve his death? Also, at the rate he's taking damage, his ability to continue the Skywalker line is starting to become compromised anyway (even without factoring in what Snoke's "finishing the training" involves, compared to that even Boss Nass's "pjuuuuunishment" seems way less ominous). The only way Skywalker family would live beyond Luke and Leia would be then that either Luke marries a young wife, or Ben already has bastards aplenty, neither of which sounds a likely alternative.
• Luke is standing besides a grave when Rey meets him at the end. Is he grieving over a random Jedi, dead a thousand generations ago (since these were the archeological remains of the first Jedi Temple)?
• Luke's expression at the very end. Clearly, he seems to recognize Rey, and/or is surprised to see her.

Conclusion: Rey is Luke's daughter. Her mother was also present at the Academy and died there (but Luke buried her to his place of exile). Kylo either thought that Rey was dead, or was not yet evil enough to kill his cousin and spared her. Luke, knowing that Kylo, his new master Snoke, and the nascent First Order would target him next, thought he could best protect Rey by sending her off to a distant desert planet similar to where he grew up (well look what it did to Anakin) where nobody would pay much attention to anybody and which would be under the radar of nearly everyone. Also, Luke may have been driven off the deep end by the loss of his wife along all his students (except his daughter), so decided that if he becomes insane or darksider, his daughter is also better off somewhere else. He also dispatched Lor San Tekka to keep watch over her á la Obi-Wan, and left him the missing part of R2's map "for emergency use only".

Speaking of, how would he know what the map was for unless Luke told him? And how could Leia know to contact Tekka (unless he contacted her). The question is though, what prompted him to do that? Also, how does the First Order know what is going on, is there a traitor inside the Resistance?

But why wouldn't Han and Leia recognize Rey? Well, back then Leia was a politician and they were probably living in the New Republic's capital (Chandrila as per the Aftermath book, or Hosnian Prime as it was as of TFA). Luke obviously had his academy someplace else (since Kylo had to be "sent" there). Probably they didn't see Luke's family that often, so seeing the presumed-dead Rey as a young adult instead of a five-year old would not necessarily ring any bells. Then again, Leia embraces Rey warmly even though they have not supposedly never met, and it is Rey, not Chewie, who sits in Falcon's captain's chair during the flight to Luke's (you would imagine that Han's best friend would inherit it instead of "no one"). Maybe Leia had indeed realized who Rey was, or knew who she was all along since she would have had contact with Tekka? (There was a scene in the leaked shooting schedules where "Han convinces Leia that Rey is worth to be saved" that was cut from the movie, maybe that actually revealed everything but JJ decided to keep the mystery until VIII.) It's not unconceivable that Luke had told Leia of his plan.

BTW, there's no need for a mind wipe, PTSD and having been a kid when All The Bad Things happened is enough to cause Rey to forget her past.

[Wulfburk]

Ya i think Rey is luke's daughter too. Oh and i personally was very much satisfied when we realized Snoke was a hologram. Cause before it i was like "wtf is this fucking shit... if that guy is really that big, its the most retarded thing ever"

On the political side, this is what appears to have happened, though the film indeed failed to explain any of this. They should have placed at least one paragraph in the intro synopsis about it. But just as A New Hope didnt explain anything of the war too.

So attempting to sum up what is known and what can be speculated of the Rebellion/Empire -> New Republic/First Order -> Resistance/First Order transition, from canon novel sources as quoted by Wiki.

These are the facts known to us, chronology-wise
1)The New Republic founded shortly after Endor. Among its core principle is a reduction to 10% of their military force once peace with the Empire is achieved.
2)After the Battle of Jakku, one year after Endor the empire cease hostile actions against the Republic.
3)Some relatively short time after that, the Galactic Concordance is signed. It's a peace treaty between Republic and Empire.
4)At some point later, The First Order is born as a successor state to the Empire. It *respects* the Galactic Concordance.
5)The New Republic chancelor refuse to view TFO as a threat.
6)However, elements within the Republic support Leia in founding the resistance against The First Order, which they view as a threat.

These facts are also known to us regarding the state of the Empire around the Endor-Jakku timeframe:

-Several Imperial leaders, want the empire to push into the Unknown regions.
-They appear to believe the "source" of the dark side is located somewhere that way.
-A mysterious Fleet Admiral, believed dead by most imperials, is reorganizing the empire behind the scenes, getting rid of the dead wood and corrupt types.*
-This mysterious fleet admiral appears to be involved with the faction wanting to push into the unknown regions.**

Another known fact: Starkiller base was originally in the Unknown Regions.

The New Republic was formed after the Battle of Jakku with the signing of the Galactic Concordance. Mon Mothma was elected chancellor (they don't use the term "supreme chancellor" anymore) and they established the New Republic capital on Chandrila, Mon Mothma's homeworld. In the span between Aftermath and TFA, the New Republic has demilitarized to a state significantly smaller than during the Clone Wars, but the Republic fleet is the largest in the galaxy. The current chancellor cares more about trade regulations than the First Order (lel) and, oh yeah, the Republic capital and Senate change planets rather frequently by popular vote. Leia's reputation is tarnished in the Senate, because people think she's kind of crazy, so her "in" is the black woman we see in Maz's castle (correct me if I'm wrong). The Resistance IS a legitimate part of the Republic (begrudgingly), though and is no longer a "rebellion" because the term "rebellion" implies that the rebels are fighting against the established regime. So while the Rebellion of the OT is fighting against the powers-that-be, the Empire, the Resistance is fighting a fringe group on the edges of Wild Space.

So its basically the peace of Amiens in 1802 but with the british supporting a "free french" in between (free french being the Resistance), while both the republic and the New Order go on trying to increase their power when they know this peace is just a interruption for the 2nd war which will be soon..... And which apparently started again when the super weapon destroyed the Republic Capital, which wasnt Coruscant but in the Hosnian system at the time. So i bet in Star Wars 8 we will get a little more on the pitched war, and hopefully no other super weapon but a real pitched land battle Hoth style, but not being the intro to the film, but the climax of it, and taking longer.


Also considering Rakata Prime is back on being cannon, (check the Star Wars The Force Awakens Visual Dictionary galaxy map), it could be a real possibility that  its there where Luke is.

The KOTOR 1 fanboy in me is quite happy 


But he's either there or at Tython.

[Wilhelm]

Thanks for that backstory, Wulfburk.  Now that part of the story makes sense.

It feels kind of weird that such an important event is merely skimmed over in the movie.  The destruction of the governing body of the Republic is kind of a big deal! 

I think the StarKiller Base was a really cool weapon, but wasn't really the focus of the plot for the movie.  Although, I still have questions as to how the weapon actually worked...It was a planet turned into a giant cannon, but could it move around space?  Also, the fact that it consumed an entire star with each shot is kinda absurd! The loss of a system's star would be a cataclysm in and of itself!

I don't think it should have used up an entire star in one go, but over a longer period of time.  Sort of like the Star Forge from KOTOR, but instead of creating vast amounts of materiel, it used the star's energy offensively.

[Wulfburk]

Ya it could move across space,  as you can see here there is the "Starkiller base Origin Point"

Spoiler

Though im not sure if it was the capital of the Republic that was destroyed.... gotta watch the movie again.

[Kelmola]

Well, it's never said outright in the film proper. General Huxler does rant in the totally not-Nuremberg Rally about destroying the New Republic, while all we see is a single planet and its moons exploding, so I would assume he is just using a hyperbole while channeling John Sheridan. But starting at the symbolic heart of the enemy, ie. its capital would make the most sense if you want to "destroy" it.

Also, Hosnian Prime was said to be in the film, and of the new planets Jakku, Takodana (Maz's hangout), and D'Qar (Resistance HQ) are already accounted for. Unless the Jedi Academy or the first Jedi Temple are on Hosnian Prime, that was the one that caught the superweapon hit.

[Wilhelm]

I just looked at the visual dictionary book in the store and it said Hosnian Prime was the current planet acting as Capital of the Republic and headquarters for the Galactic Senate.  That means the central governing body of the Republic was nuked in the movie.

[Zoologic]

Oh boy, and I thought it was Corruscant lacking some familiar buildings.

I've just seen it today. Thrilled. But I am a fanboy, it is difficult to review this neutrally. But as a fanboy, I tend to be excited withe each revelations. It is made to be "modern" to satisfy more critics IMO. The prequels are too campy compared to this one. So far:

+ Plot from A New Hope and Jedi Academy II, retouched with modern movie success-safe-guarantee rules (good CGI, follow-on camera during intense moments or cool action sequence like dogfights, polished characters, flashback reduction, and more conformance with science)
+ Enhanced audio
+ Old characters stay in characters
+ Battle scenes (Jakku, Jakku space, Takodana, The Starkiller) are awesome and more alive. Finally storm troopers hit a lot of things. It really shows the struggle of each combatants
+ Humours, especially classy stuffs from Han Solo and Finn's
+ Rey is a strong character, I like her. It is very rare for Star Wars movie to be this deep
+ Finn, I can understand him very well. He is a very likeable character
+ The Skywalker - Solo family tree revelations
+ I like it when Kylo Ren is a badass. But he chose to be "Kai-loh", a name that rhymes with typical pet's name
+ Is that Rakata Prime planet from KOTOR 1? From the looks of it, it is pretty striking, especially the valley where Ebon Hawk landed and the temple where Bastilla is captured
+ More flowing light saber combat that still sticks to the Wookiepedia like signature moves (is that Rey using form 6 by repeatedly thrusting her saber?)

- Kylo Ren is Ben Solo and he is a hormonal wimpy teenager with some emotional issues that I can't symphatise with from the on-screen performance. He might be tricky with Han, but I am really curious on his turn to dark side. He is scratched by non-force user and defeated by untrained force user. Snoke is too incompetent to choose a worthy protege
- Snoke - the name, Star Wars are not known to be good in naming characters. But this is new low after Kylo. Ren, Ben, Ken, what else? Zen, Men, Ten, Pen, Hen, Den? When you are lazy three letters is enough, Rey. I can't complain with Finn though, quite a nice story on how he receive that name.
- Snoke - the character, not scheming, dark, villainy enough. But Hux and Kylo's behavious in front of him makes him to be quite menacing
- No climax. The plot is all flat tense throughout the movie
- No remarkable music score. The Episode I have the coolest "Droid Invasion", Episode III has this dramatic music that plays in the end (also when they show Luke in this movie). Episode IV brought us the original Star Wars intro. Episode V introduce us to the epic "Empire's March". The Episode VI gave us that victory "Yub-Nub song" sung by Ewoks. This one has a lot of scenes that requires strong musical atmosphere.
- Silly use of force powers. Hold, choke, push, pull, mind trick, read minds. Also, is Poe force sensitive? Why he can resist it?
- Captain Phasma featuring Brienne of Tarth (Gwendoline Christie) being dumped into garbage compactor, just like her potential
- General Hux doesn't live up to being villainy enough to rival Grand Moff Tarkin, probably because Kylo Ren himself is a wimpy dark side knight whatever that can't give him quite a serious challenge

[Ts4EVER]

Calling it now for Episode 8: Poe Dameron: Gay

[Jimi Hendrix]

 Im disappointed. Not very disappointed.

Its a Disney movie, made for children. Not sure what i was expecting.

 Oh yeah, an original plot. They definitely took no chances on the script & followed a tried and true formula from "A New Hope".

 The evil antagonist is a gay looking buffoon.



ok, thats enough...
 

[Captain Pyjama Shark]

I think I would have liked this film if it had added anything new to Star Wars.  A New Hope, of course, pretty heavily took from the style of Akira Kurosawa samurai movies, Sergio Leone westerns, and WW2 air battle flicks, to the point where many of the scenes and dialogue are almost exact mirrors of those other films (the trench run, for example, contains much of the exact same dialogue as the Dambusters.

But the only influence on the new one seems to be old Star Wars movies.  So we just get a less stylized and interesting version of a New Hope.  The X-Wing battle at the end was what really disappointed me.  It had nothing on any of the battles in the Original Trilogy.