Fences and little stone walls.. Hedgerows

[Neighbor Kid]

After 2.2 came fences are now drive through able with most vehicles ( might take a tad bit of damage but none the less get threw them) now i was wondering especially for tanks. after being able to run threw the fences do you think tanks would possibly get the ability to run threw those low lying stone walls that are like not even up past most tanks tracks.. ? little annoying when a Sherman or Tiger runs threw a fence and get stopped by a wall no larger than my shin lol..  and if not how come?

And for hedge rows when we see more Normandy maps in later updates. i was wondering like in FH1 on Charlie sector you threw explosives at the doors to breach, on normandy maps ( with the inclusion of the Hedgerow cutter on tanks already)  Maybe have certain Areas where the tanks can breach.  that would perhaps be randomized everytime the map is loaded as to not let the german forces sit there and camp the spot.  I say certain areas cause A the map would be way to laggy at that point if everything would explode,B this isnt the frost bite engine. C would make the Hedgerow choppers turn from Eye candy into usefulness

[VonMudra]

I agree that they should also be able to run through the stone walls....

For hedgerows, well, hedgerow cutters were only used during and after Op Cobra, IE, the brits currently shouldn't have them, and I do believe I've seen them on the Liebesey map and such.  Also, there were only 100 or so built.  That's it.  And as they were always the first through the hedgerow, they had the honour of also being the first to be destroyed.  So almost all were lost...they honestly simply were not as effective as people think.  So even if it is in, imo, it should be rather rather rare, maybe one on any given map, and none in any battles before Op Cobra....

[Neighbor Kid]

about the hedge choppers i was just throwing that out there for that operation just to see the hedgecutters do somethign besides eye candy just a thought.

the stone walls im glad you agree im also looking around maps for more things tanks should bust through... techincally tanks should be abel to bust threw any just standing wall but thats not going to happen lol

[VonMudra]

Well, not really.  When a tank went through a large wall or house, it didn't really bust through.  It had to turn its turret completly away from the wall in order to protect the barrel from being knocked off alignment, and very carefully push through.  So I think for the purposes of gameplay, that should be left out.  But stone walls should def have the same physics as the fences do now, ie, tanks can go right through.

[Neighbor Kid]

i didnt mean house i mean like ajsut a wall standing there. but i see what your saying.. but the stone walls that are low lying should be drive over able.  maybe even a low lying hedge since with our dozer blades or choppers the tanks woudl roll over them with there belly exposed greatly right>?

[DLFReporter]

Iirc hedgerows are not passable by tanks due to gameplay decisions and due to the fact that not all tanks managed to bypass that thick Normandy Bushwork.

[Neighbor Kid]

 but what about the low lying stone walls?

Devs, any thoughts?

[Smiles]

Reporter just explained you its for gameplay reasons, ofc its annoying to get stuck behind those tiny broken walls(i k now what your talking about) but apparantly you cant enter those places for a reason. A good example is the first flag on Totalize(factory or something) there are 3 broken walls there you cant enter with your tank and i think thats just fine, gives the infantry a little more time.

[Neighbor Kid]

Reporter just explained you its for gameplay reasons, ofc its annoying to get stuck behind those tiny broken walls(i k now what your talking about) but apparantly you cant enter those places for a reason. A good example is the first flag on Totalize(factory or something) there are 3 broken walls there you cant enter with your tank and i think thats just fine, gives the infantry a little more time.

"Iirc hedgerows are not passable by tanks due to gameplay decisions and due to the fact that not all tanks managed to bypass that thick Normandy Bushwork. "- N24Reporter

Reporter only commented on the Hedgerows, not the Small stone walls.  in Goodwood, that field  beyond the first axis flag, the field to the right if looking at the mini map has all those stonewalls.  You might have been confused when i said low lying walls..  i speak of the ones that arnt even 3 feet tall.

[Die Happy]

i speak of the ones that arnt even 3 feet tall.

yeah those really tiny ones would be nice to just roll over them.
however i m not sure they are that tiny, some mapper use larger walls and stick them in the ground untill they have the desired hight.

[Neighbor Kid]

maybe dependant upon maps they could be fixed to drive over? cause they reall are an annoyance to tanks..

[DLFReporter]

It just occurred to me: It's always fun to see the changed expectations in gamers over the years.
In FH0.7 you had to stop at every tree stump with your tank and a map like battle of the bulge was just terrible for all the fences which it had. ^^

But anyway perhaps Toddel might whip out some awesome new walls for the mappers to replace the old ones. They'd do some damage to tanks in order to prevent jeeps and trucks from braking through them, but I guess a tanker who wants to go across that wall would still take a broken track into account ingame as in RL.

[Natty]

Just to get my point of view.
Maps in games (be it quake, operation flashpoint, fh2, unreal or microsoft flight simulator) are not representations of the real world. They are blocks of collision that the player moves through. The player is not playing by looking at a wall, he is playing by colliding against it.
when creating maps, you look at static objects like grey meshes (in your head). A wall has three purposes:
-guide the player
-block the player
-provide cover for the player.
When you design a map, you decide what the player can, and can't do. It is the priviligue of mappers to force you in to a behaviour, a path of movement. The mapper creates the decisions for you: go left, or right. You are constantly making decisions as a player, some of them are important, some of them are less important. Still they are there because the mapper designed them for you. This is why we dont want to alter this by destroyable walls here and there. If the wall is high so you cant drive over with tank, it is not because the "wall" is low, it is because the mapper dont want tanks driving there. You must take another decision, for example drive on the road where the enemy has AT gun, you are forced to take this decision, because the gameplay happens when you engage the enemy, not when you drive around in the fields.

I agree to some point that a wall that is stuck down too low in to the ground should be drive overable (?) but in all honesty our maps are quite large and open, you often have more than one way of attacking the enemy and it is often hard to know where the enemy tanks are coming from. I honestly dont believe the gameplay would be better if we had this "unknown" factor of players roaming all free in tanks. Mappers want to control the movement of players, and our modellers have made so many variations of hedgerows and walls (broken, intact, low, high, small gap, big gap, etc) so if the mappers have created a very long route with no exit, it is bad map design, not bad model design..

Please post screenshots of areas where you feel it is annoying to not have any choices to drive, where you feel to funneled into a path and have not an option to play it differently.

[Lobo]

Natty, someone will label you as a bloddy stalinist mapper

/runs to the barricades

[Mazz]

Or high-five him for  putting excellent thought into his map designs  .

But well said Natty, I don't think many people realize the importance of static layout on so many maps.