American Youth Camps

[[130.Pz]S.Tiemann]

Oh, ok  .


Anyway,

Right now its not mandatory. But I think we all know it will be. Its just, not right .

I still don't see how they would enforce it, especially if the gen. population ignored it.

[Archimonday]

You have no need to worry Apple, its not what it seems like. Basically this bill says that the government will supply more funding to groups like Acorn and others who do community service, and will raise the number of participants.

[Sir Apple]

I dunno really.

I suppose they would threaten to throw people that disobey in jail. The thing is, these kids would be at the camp for three months, with no contact to their families. That is what my moms email notice said. To me, that is just wrong. And another thing, after the kids are done with the three months, they will be traced until they are 25. Now, I'm not sure what traced means by the government's definition.

Archi I hear you, but, the email notice came off completely different to me.

[Lupin]

Ah yes, I've known about this for a couple weeks. Right now it's pretty much all school aged kids, up to 21 that have to serve but the government is looking at making seniors, and then every citizen conscripted into this program. And their idea of community service as described in the bill isn't things like planting trees and picking up garbage, they want to use the children as free labor to fix up roads and renovate government buildings and things like that. One of the bills also describes standard issue uniforms and "political education" as part of the program.

While you are in this program, you are forbidden from doing anything involving politics, such as protesting, anything involving legislation, etc etc.

This is also against the 13th amendment of the constitution:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

This is clearly involuntary servitude, which makes these youth camps against the law and the constitution. But I think they found a loop hole around that. You see, they can force you to do service for a crime, and if something is mandatory (like these camps) it would be a crime to refuse, and they can punish you by making you do it.

I have also heard reports of them wanting to make all adults serve 3 months a year of mandatory "community service".

They just won't give us a break.

Oh and I'm sorry if I made any glaring errors about the bill in my post. I haven't read about it for a while and I'm pretty tired right now.

[[130.Pz]S.Tiemann]

Here in school they teach us that it is our democratic responsibility to disobey illegitimate and illegal laws, so it would probably end up defunct like the firearm registration they tried a few years back.

[Schneider]

This is clearly involuntary servitude, which makes these youth camps against the law and the constitution. But I think they found a loop hole around that. You see, they can force you to do service for a crime, and if something is mandatory (like these camps) it would be a crime to refuse, and they can punish you by making you do it.

Just wondering, doesn't this assumption also apply on general conscription?

[Sir Apple]

Ah yes, I've known about this for a couple weeks. Right now it's pretty much all school aged kids, up to 21 that have to serve but the government is looking at making seniors, and then every citizen conscripted into this program. And their idea of community service as described in the bill isn't things like planting trees and picking up garbage, they want to use the children as free labor to fix up roads and renovate government buildings and things like that. One of the bills also describes standard issue uniforms and "political education" as part of the program.

While you are in this program, you are forbidden from doing anything involving politics, such as protesting, anything involving legislation, etc etc.

This is also against the 13th amendment of the constitution:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

This is clearly involuntary servitude, which makes these youth camps against the law and the constitution. But I think they found a loop hole around that. You see, they can force you to do service for a crime, and if something is mandatory (like these camps) it would be a crime to refuse, and they can punish you by making you do it.

I have also heard reports of them wanting to make all adults serve 3 months a year of mandatory "community service".

They just won't give us a break.

Oh and I'm sorry if I made any glaring errors about the bill in my post. I haven't read about it for a while and I'm pretty tired right now.

I must say, I'm somewhat pissed after reading that. There is just no way I'll do that. You may say I'm talking tuff cause this is the internet and all, but no. I will not be someone elses slave.

Just, no.

So, what, am I supposed to spend my summer serving Obama? Absolutely the hell no.  

I really hope this doesn't become full circle until I'm at least 21. That, or Americans protest this.

If they send me a letter telling me to report to some camp, I'll send them a birthday card with "fuck you" on a 10 dollar bill.

Sorry, but things like this really get me going. I've always been taught to rebel against illegitimacy and unconstitutional laws in this country.

[Lupin]

This is clearly involuntary servitude, which makes these youth camps against the law and the constitution. But I think they found a loop hole around that. You see, they can force you to do service for a crime, and if something is mandatory (like these camps) it would be a crime to refuse, and they can punish you by making you do it.

Just wondering, doesn't this assumption also apply on general conscription?

When it comes to the draft, I believe there's an amendment that says it's ok but I'm not quite sure.

[[130.Pz]S.Tiemann]

Ah yes, I've known about this for a couple weeks. Right now it's pretty much all school aged kids, up to 21 that have to serve but the government is looking at making seniors, and then every citizen conscripted into this program. And their idea of community service as described in the bill isn't things like planting trees and picking up garbage, they want to use the children as free labor to fix up roads and renovate government buildings and things like that. One of the bills also describes standard issue uniforms and "political education" as part of the program.

While you are in this program, you are forbidden from doing anything involving politics, such as protesting, anything involving legislation, etc etc.

This is also against the 13th amendment of the constitution:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

This is clearly involuntary servitude, which makes these youth camps against the law and the constitution. But I think they found a loop hole around that. You see, they can force you to do service for a crime, and if something is mandatory (like these camps) it would be a crime to refuse, and they can punish you by making you do it.

I have also heard reports of them wanting to make all adults serve 3 months a year of mandatory "community service".

They just won't give us a break.

Oh and I'm sorry if I made any glaring errors about the bill in my post. I haven't read about it for a while and I'm pretty tired right now.

I must say, I'm somewhat pissed after reading that. There is just no way I'll do that. You may say I'm talking tuff cause this is the internet and all, but no. I will not be someone elses slave.

Just, no.

So, what, am I supposed to spend my summer serving Obama? Absolutely the hell no.  

I really hope this doesn't become full circle until I'm at least 21. That, or Americans protest this.

If they send me a letter telling me to report to some camp, I'll send them a birthday card with "fuck you" on a 10 dollar bill.

Sorry, but things like this really get me going. I've always been taught to rebel against illegitimacy and unconstitutional laws in this country.

Exactly, with the mindset of today's youth it would be near impossible to implement such a program. What are they going to do if hundreds of thousands of people boycott it? I know where i live, the school has a hard time enforcing attendance to assembelys and things such as diversity days where there are a bunch of bullshit seminars to attend. Enforcing this kind of organized labour would be diffucult.
(rep to apple)

[Wilhelm]

Unless someone provides some credible sources, I can tell you that what that email notice said is completely false.  Most email notices like that are false to begin with and are not a credible source.

The idea of getting the general public to commit themselves to doing community service work is something that should be addressed, in my opinion.  However, like I said in my previous post, the people would have to be given something worthwhile in compensation and it would have to remain strictly voluntary.

And like Tiemann was saying, such a plan would never work in the United States; therefore, the facts presented by the email notification are utter BS. 

[Schneider]

When it comes to the draft, I believe there's an amendment that says it's ok but I'm not quite sure.

Muahaha. What would a basic right be without exceptions?

[Lupin]

Unless someone provides some credible sources, I can tell you that what that email notice said is completely false.  Most email notices like that are false to begin with and are not a credible source.

The idea of getting the general public to commit themselves to doing community service work is something that should be addressed, in my opinion.  However, like I said in my previous post, the people would have to be given something worthwhile in compensation and it would have to remain strictly voluntary.

And like Tiemann was saying, such a plan would never work in the United States; therefore, the facts presented by the email notification are utter BS. 

Full bill HR 1388:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1388

Senate version:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s111-277

Related links and bills:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:HR01388:@@@L&summ2=m&
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2009-140
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2009-115
http://www.rules.house.gov/111/LegText/111_hr1388_txt.pdf

HR 1444:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1444

Naturally the wording in the bill is sugar coated, but don't let that fool you.

I could link to several ongoing discussions on other forums, but those forums are more.. "conspiracy" related and I wouldn't want to turn this thread into a "lol you're all tinfoil hat wearers" flame fest.

[johnkeel105]

I dont think you read the worst part.

SEC. 125. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.
‘(a) Prohibited Activities- A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not engage in the following activities:


1‘(1) Attempting to influence legislation.

6‘(2) Organizing or engaging in protests, petitions, boycotts, or strikes.

1‘(3) Assisting, promoting, or deterring union organizing.

‘(4) Impairing existing contracts for services or collective bargaining agreements.

2‘(5) Engaging in partisan political activities, or other activities designed to influence the outcome of an election to any public office.

2‘(6) Participating in, or endorsing, events or activities that are likely to include advocacy for or against political parties, political platforms, political candidates, proposed legislation, or elected officials.

7‘(7) Engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1388/text

[Lupin]

I dont think you read the worst part.

SEC. 125. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.
‘(a) Prohibited Activities- A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not engage in the following activities:


1‘(1) Attempting to influence legislation.

6‘(2) Organizing or engaging in protests, petitions, boycotts, or strikes.

1‘(3) Assisting, promoting, or deterring union organizing.

‘(4) Impairing existing contracts for services or collective bargaining agreements.

2‘(5) Engaging in partisan political activities, or other activities designed to influence the outcome of an election to any public office.

2‘(6) Participating in, or endorsing, events or activities that are likely to include advocacy for or against political parties, political platforms, political candidates, proposed legislation, or elected officials.

7‘(7) Engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1388/text

Yeah, this is what I mentioned in my previous post.

[[130.Pz]S.Tiemann]

I dont think you read the worst part.

SEC. 125. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.
‘(a) Prohibited Activities- A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not engage in the following activities:


1‘(1) Attempting to influence legislation.

6‘(2) Organizing or engaging in protests, petitions, boycotts, or strikes.

1‘(3) Assisting, promoting, or deterring union organizing.

‘(4) Impairing existing contracts for services or collective bargaining agreements.

2‘(5) Engaging in partisan political activities, or other activities designed to influence the outcome of an election to any public office.

2‘(6) Participating in, or endorsing, events or activities that are likely to include advocacy for or against political parties, political platforms, political candidates, proposed legislation, or elected officials.

7‘(7) Engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1388/text

Wow the US government comes up with some very undemocratic legislation. I thought Obama would try to lead things the other way after stuff like the patriot act.