Author Topic: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile  (Read 3974 times)

Offline jumjum

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This seems like big news: the Chinese appear to have leaked (through a Chinese blog!) info that they have developed a long-range ballistic missile which is accurate and powerful enough to find, hit and sink an aircraft carrier with one strike. This is a huge upgrade in ASM range (2000 km/1240 miles), speed (Mach 10, which, depending on altitude can be almost as high as 7,500 miles per hour) and unprecedented accuracy which enables it to hit a moving ship from space.
Link here:https://www.usni.org/forthemedia/ChineseKillWeapon.asp 

Original article here, with some good technical analysis: http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/2009/03/plan-asbm-development.html

The originating Chinese blog (for you Chinese-character readers): http://blog.huanqiu.com/?uid-6885-action-viewspace-itemid-2009

This is news because this is the first ASBM (anti-ship ballistic missile). That means it is launched like a space rocket into low space and then plunges back down into earth's atmosphere to strike its target. Until now, all ASM (anti-ship missiles) have been low-level weapons with a  relatively small payload, such as the Exocet which the Argentines used to sink the British destroyer Sheffield in the 1982 Falklands War. Until this Chinese ABSM, the ASMs were not launched into space, and instead traveled just above sea level until hitting it's target near the waterline. The advantage of a ballistic anti-ship missile is its speed to target, and the great difficulty in stopping it. This is magnified, according to the article, by Chinese improvements in control of the missile, which means they can "dodge and feint", making it even harder to target and kill.

This new Chinese weapon(Wiki here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DF-21) is a modified Dong Feng ("East Wind") 21, or DF-21. For decades the DF-21 has been used as the delivery system for a Chinese 300-kiloton nuclear warhead. It is 35 feet long, 5 feet wide, and can pack enough conventional high-explosive that a strike from one DF-21 missile would almost certainly blow an aircraft carrier out of the water - a hit is a guaranteed sinking. Advances in control and targeting, which include not only onboard systems, but satellite assistance and manned and unmanned air and sea targeting vehicles, mean that the missile can be maneuvered and still hit its moving target.

This development is significant to US, NATO and Western security for several reasons. Although the Chinese have masterfully "puffed" the ability of their weapons systems for decades, in recent years they have become much more circumspect. It is believed now that when the Chinese leak information about a weapon, it is far past the developmental stage, and may be nearing time for implementation.

Also, this should be considered in light of the much more aggressive stance which China has taken in the past year or so, not only in government statements and speeches, but in military incidents with US ships and aircraft. Recently there have been two such incidents. The Chinese are clearly flexing their muscles. This leak is to tell the US that its carriers will not be safe in the China Sea. 

Finally, and this is the big kicker, with the advances in targeting and guidance of the improved DF-21, I am reminded of how the Clinton Administration breached US law and permitted highly sensitive computer components to be sold to the Chinese in the mid-1990s. I specifically recall at the time many military and intelligence figures were terrified that these components  were going to the Chinese because of how easily they could be used for significant improvements in Chinese missile technology, specifically in guidance systems. Well, well.

But that was when the Clintons, with their eyes wide open, ignored warnings from all their intel chiefs (except Deutsch, whom the Chinese bought off) permitted Chinese intelligence agents to penetrate and participate in their campaign fundraising and fundraising for the Clinton Library. The great shame of all this is that the Clintons opened their arms to Chinese intelligence agents Charlie Trie, John Huang and Johnny Chung, who passed untold amounts of money from Chinese Army Intelligence into the Democratic National Committee and the Clintons' campaigns. The money was cheerfully provided by Colonel Liu of the People's Republic of China Army Intelligence, because it bought face time and immediate access to the donors. And the Chinese wound up getting the very computer components which are almost certainly the ones which now guide the DF-21. And millions upon millions of untraceable dollars, almost certainly provided by Chinese Intel, have gone into the "Clinton Library", money over which there is virtually no accounting oversight. Meaning that Chinese cash is at this moment in the pockets of a former US president...and the current Secretary of State. And that money bought for the Chinese the ability to destroy US aircraft carriers with one quick, unstoppable blow.

You just can't write this stuff.




Like the Phoenix rising from the ashes.....

Offline GooGeL

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #1 on: 31-03-2009, 20:03:33 »
YES! YES!

Let's send in a whole generation of 18-20 year old kids to fight these commies and what not that threaten our supremecy!
And when that fails, we nuke 'em!



Ehhhh...
When is this madness going to fall over?

I'm not quite sure what we are arguing about here but.. this be so afraid of China thingy really buggers me alot. Just check what's in your own closet first. You'll realize they are of the same kind.

Offline jumjum

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #2 on: 31-03-2009, 20:03:39 »
Bugger away, bud, I'm sorry if you're Chinese heritage, but all the US has to do is listen to China's threats. And it's all coming down to how PRC is going to invade Taiwan, and China wants to frighten the US away from meeting tis treaty obligations. That's "invade", not "invite", or "annex", a country that doesn't want to be a part of PRC.
Like the Phoenix rising from the ashes.....

Offline Moose

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #3 on: 31-03-2009, 21:03:08 »
Along the same lines, N.Korea missle anyone?

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #4 on: 31-03-2009, 21:03:52 »
The way I gather it, China has no need to threaten the US.
As it seems, they could deal the final blow by just releasing all the pretty dollars that they have baught over the years to keep the dollar high and their currency low.

The only reasonable cause for them to threaten the US is to make them finally come clean and renovate the banking sector. I heard a great commentary from Noam Chomsky just a few min ago.

Here the link to the interesting Interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1re9yBzqgY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_U_ogClHdY
« Last Edit: 31-03-2009, 21:03:26 by N24Reporter »
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Offline GooGeL

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #5 on: 31-03-2009, 21:03:50 »
Bugger away, bud, I'm sorry if you're Chinese heritage, but all the US has to do is listen to China's threats. And it's all coming down to how PRC is going to invade Taiwan, and China wants to frighten the US away from meeting tis treaty obligations. That's "invade", not "invite", or "annex", a country that doesn't want to be a part of PRC.
No, I got no connection with the chinese.
I think they recently open up a bit between them two. http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/12/15/taiwan-china.html

Todays media isn't anything to listen on due to all the propaganda and just epic fail in epic proportion in journalism. I guess it's fine to check up on the weather forecast though. If you want facts you can find them most of the time on the net. You have about seven thousands of nukes, what are you so afraid of?
The weapon industry is those who laughs all the way to the bank when you start a war. Maybe america needs that to recover from the recession?  ::)

EDIT: N24 reminds me of that Clinton went to China (iirc) almost asap when they hop on to their 4 year term. The only thing I could think of why she was in such hurry was because she had to go their to suck it up a bit. It sounds a bit like China got a rope around your neck...
« Last Edit: 31-03-2009, 21:03:17 by GooGeL »

Offline Dukat

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #6 on: 31-03-2009, 22:03:25 »
Maybe not the smartest reply.
But even carriers are getting old someday.
That is almost a 'I pwn you' classic.





I usually imagine my own sounds with it, like `tjunk, tupdieyupdiedee` aaa enemy spotted, ratatatataboom

Offline GooGeL

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #7 on: 31-03-2009, 22:03:12 »
I'd be suprised if that happen. That would create a major sh*t storm.

I'm glad it's just talk right now. It's good no one have so far grabbed any arms and used them on another. Who knows where it ends though..?

Offline Mspfc Doc DuFresne

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #8 on: 31-03-2009, 23:03:59 »
I mean, its not like its news that they were getting close. First you've heard of it?

In recent news, the Standard SM-2 missile has just been tested as a terminal defense against a ballistic missile target. Also, we do have that SM-3, designed to take down ballistic missiles in flight. The Standard family is considered extremely reliable(though I don't know about this new SM-6, the amraam seeker head they are installing seems a bit sketchy.)

Its just the old duel between offensive and defensive technologies. The chinese gained an advantage in speed and range, not survivability or hitting power. The DF-21 has a reentry vehicle weight of 600 kg, only twice that of the SS-N-22 Sunburn. In addition, due to its trajectory, it is immediately detectable (unlike a normal missile, sea skimming missiles may get to within 20 miles of their target undetected), easy to see its target, and relatively easy to intercept along a predictable flight path. Honestly, I would be more worried if it was a sub-ballistic missile, able to maneuver for its entire flight instead of just the terminal stage. The Ballistic trajectory is a minimum-energy trajectory; its not chosen for survivability.

And my hunch is it would take more than one to sink a supercarrier. It might be able to temporarily put one out of commission, as Feng said in his post over there, and if it kept U.S. carriers away from China's coasts it will have succeeded in its mission, but I doubt if one would sink a carrier. They are extremely robust; they're designed that way.

Whats more, reading Information Dissemination (I love that blog, but there's too much info too keep up on) the ASBM would require a significant amount of support, from over the horizon radar (which is huge, those things are like a mile long) to a whole constellation of satellites. Quoting Feng on InfoDissem., "The entire system needed for ASBM probably will not get set up until all the space assets and UAVs are online next decade." Also, OTH radar has an accuracy of 20-30 km, so up to there the missile is on its own.
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Offline NoCoolOnesLeft

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #9 on: 31-03-2009, 23:03:48 »
Ha. They said nothing would kill the battleship. Carriers have had their time...just like manned aircraft, tanks and helos.

Offline GooGeL

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #10 on: 31-03-2009, 23:03:33 »
Ha. They said nothing would kill the battleship. Carriers have had their time...just like manned aircraft, tanks and helos.
Tsss, I doubt that. I guess nukes strapped on a missile would "win" all the time. But is anyone going to accept the consequences for the after effects?
This rogue warfare that's going on in Iraq, Afghanistan and Gaza (during Operation Cast Lead) isn't something you can "win" by using missiles or smart bombs. Just take a look at the number of civilian casualties due to usage of this type of weaponry.
Technology is certainly intresting but I think if we used our heads and ability to communicate, it would be the ultimate blow to all of this.

Nothing good or better can really raise up after use of violence to make someone comply. It sets off yet another ticking bomb.

Offline Torenico

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #11 on: 01-04-2009, 00:04:27 »
You guys.. i think you know that Carriers never goes alone.. theres anumber of other ships protecting him. You know how good is the Anti-Missile Defenses on the Ships.

This gun smells like the V2


But i could be wrong.


Offline Hockeywarrior

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #12 on: 01-04-2009, 01:04:01 »
This isn't a debate over whether China is considering attacking anybody. The mere fact that they possible might have already built a missile with such capabilities is an eye brow raiser to say the least. China is clearly pulling ahead in the technology world and is slowly rising as an eventual world power.

Sure politics of today may not point to any agressive action, but history shows us how fast things can change. Give it a decade or two and we'll see what China's aspirations are. Then suddenly it will matter to everyone.

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Offline Schneider

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #13 on: 01-04-2009, 01:04:35 »
Though it is surprising that they are so advanced, it is not very surprising they have won ground so fast in technology development - and the main fault lies within the western countries.
China has a long tradition in the post-war world of stealing and copying western technologies - and western countries have never taken any major, serious actions against that, because they don't want to screw with the chinese because they have a promising market. If ever anyone had some little issues with the french, another country rushed in to take its place. And now a lot of them are whining about the rising of china - well, that's the going of things.

I don't like it either, as I do not see what positive influence china could have on the world. So far all they have brought are things like the forceful occupation and suppresion of tibet etc. Oh no, I forgot, it's liberation. It has to be, otherwise the western world would have done something against it.
That's also why they try to hide posters and flags pro tibet. Those scum who always calls liberations suppressions!

We all of course remember the gracious and friendly liberators of eastern europe after ww2. And in 1968, they liberated Tschechoslovakia again.

Offline Anlushac11

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Re: Chinese have a carrier-killer BAlLLISTIC missile
« Reply #14 on: 01-04-2009, 04:04:03 »
LOL bring it on

RIM161 SM-3 > Chinese ballistic missile.
"And will you continue, until there are no more Narns, and no more Centauri? If both sides are dead, no one will care which side deserves the blame. It no longer matters who started it, G'Kar. It only matters who is suffering" - Ambassador Kosh Naranek