Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Suggestions => Topic started by: hslan.Corvax on 28-01-2010, 19:01:55
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Since im totaly pissed that some people max their mouse sensitivity to turn turrets lightning fast i came up with an idea. Please correct me if im wrong in my thinking or beat me up if thats a stupid idea ..
As far as i know, the sensitivity is a value in the control.con file. So far so good. Now what if : When you install FH, it replaces your control.con file or just overwrites the value .. ( im sure there is a way to make the installer extract the current control settings, write them in a new file and replace the one value for the mouse speed and overwrite the old one, so it would keep existing settings except mouse sensitivity .. All in all, its only a plain text document ..) and MAXES the value there. Now, the turrets would all have to be slowed down, so they have proper traversing speeds ONLY when sensitivity is maxed out. That would cancel the possibility to increase it by setting it higher since its already on max.
What do you guys say ?
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I have no Idea, as i have no knowledge of these sort of things.. But it sounds doable.
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Hope it works and hope it's done on very next patch. I also hate that exploit >:(
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I have no Idea, as i have no knowledge of these sort of things.. But it sounds doable.
Well i was doing some visual basic stuff in school many years ago, and we were writing stupid routines that renamed your files, copied the content of network drives into archives and stuff, so i guess getting a value in a text document changed durring the install progress shouldnt be much of a problem. I really hope the devs read and look into this. It would at least solve one of the problems that ruin gameplay
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OMG turn it up and tigers turrets move fast! wtf lol tigers are fun now HAHA
But it is wrong so I dont do it and any way it makes using an infantry a pain in the ass!
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That's not how people increase their mouse sensitivity. Most higher end mice have buttons right on the mouse that control mouse sensitivity, so it can be adjusted on the fly. Other mice have program-able software and people can set up a macro to change the sensitivity on the fly. Hell, anyone can open their control panel and permanently increase their mouse sensitivity with the standard options in Windows.
Also, you just introduced a new exploit for people to try. Bravo...
Finally, THE MOUSE SENSITIVITY "EXPLOIT" DOES NOT RUIN GAMEPLAY!! Hardly anyone abuses it, and the few people that do certainly do not change the tide of a battle. Sure it's annoying when you can't run circles around a KT in your Cromwell, but get the hell over it. These people paid extra money to get a better mouse than you have, which they have all the right in the world to do. Do you want to penalize people with better computers and internet connections because they lag less than you?
For the record, I play with a shitty $20 Logitech mouse, and yes, I do get pissed off when people are obviously abusing their mouse sensitivity, but guess what? I get over it, outsmart the bastard and send him and his tank back to the spawn screen a different way than "Hur hur, I'm gonna charge him in my tank".
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That's not how people increase their mouse sensitivity. Most higher end mice have buttons right on the mouse that control mouse sensitivity, so it can be adjusted on the fly. Other mice have program-able software and people can set up a macro to change the sensitivity on the fly. Hell, anyone can open their control panel and permanently increase their mouse sensitivity with the standard options in Windows.
Also, you just introduced a new exploit for people to try. Bravo...
Finally, THE MOUSE SENSITIVITY "EXPLOIT" DOES NOT RUIN GAMEPLAY!! Hardly anyone abuses it, and the few people that do certainly do not change the tide of a battle. Sure it's annoying when you can't run circles around a KT in your Cromwell, but get the hell over it. These people paid extra money to get a better mouse than you have, which they have all the right in the world to do. Do you want to penalize people with better computers and internet connections because they lag less than you?
For the record, I play with a shitty $20 Logitech mouse, and yes, I do get pissed off when people are obviously abusing their mouse sensitivity, but guess what? I get over it, outsmart the bastard and send him and his tank back to the spawn screen a different way than "Hur hur, I'm gonna charge him in my tank".
I really can't believe what i'm reading. With your way of thinking, cheating is also ok if person is smart enough to do it without getting gought. I do have gaming mouse, I could easily exploit by pushing button few times, but I dont do it. Becouse it is not fair for other players. It ruins gamplay, everyone should have same rules.
Too bad if it can't be fixed, I just hope someone would find some answer to this problem.
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Dude, it's not cheating. Is having extra buttons on your mouse that you can assign more commands to (such as reload, bring up the map, and sprint) cheating? Is using a joystick to fly cheating? Is having a good enough computer that you don't have to turn down your view distance cheating? Is having a fast enough internet connection that you don't have to compensate for latency cheating?
No. It's just people willing to spend more money on their gaming experience will have a slightly better experience and/or a slight advantage over someone who doesn't or can't spend as much money on it. It's just how the world works, dude.
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I agree with Ionizer on this one.
I got such a mouse, but I never use it.
I only use the sensitivity buttons when I want to adjust the sensitivity, not to gain ultra-speed with tank turrets.
I have never noticed anyone do that, there isn't THAT much noticeable difference.
The reason I have never used it is not that I'm against "cheating", it's just that in the heat of battle I don't really consider that option.
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All those examples are quite different than this matter. If you got your reload or map button on mouse, you still have to press button to use it, like everyone else. If you have sensitivity adjusted from gaming mouse, you no longer have to do what other players have. I don't even want to know how many times I have to move my mouse across the table if I want to turn 360 degrees with tiger turret. Now you know how easy it is for who are cheating with their mouse.
Edit: Funny how I would say I see this alot and you guys see it rarely...
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I think being able to use a joystick for flying is the exact same thing as being able to increase your mouse sensitivity while playing.
But then again I think the whole mouse sensitivity thing is greatly exaggerated. I admit, a while back I would sometimes adjust my mouse sensitivity on my new gaming mouse to help me turn my turret faster...
... Until I discovered the mouse sensitivity setting for land vehicles in BF2. Did you ever tried to max it out? It made me able to turn my able way faster then my mouse was able to. Up to the point I had a hard time aiming with most medium tanks.
I played with the setting until I found which sensitivity worked best for me, left it that way. And I never needed to touch the sensitivity buttons on my mouse again.
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i must confess to adjusting my mouse sensitivity up when in the larger slower turning tanks..............but i have a plausible reason. You see since i live in australia and only have adsl internet (stupid Telstra not sharing the adsl 2 connections in my area with tpg) i get an average ping of 250-280 on wolf server and around 300-400 on hslan or 79th (i go on tehse since they are populated) and with this lag i ahve to deal with he shells not exploding or bullets not hitting them cause some little dude with a panzer faust had time to shoot before i even saw him, dont blame it on my bad tanking i do take precautionary measures like all good tankers. Its just by adjusting the mouse sensitivity it sort of restores the balance for me and i try not to do it but... the lag man THE LAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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idea
Make no turrets traversable anymore
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Is using a joystick to fly cheating?
Using a Joystick doesn't allow to overcome planes specific limits, it is more comfortable to pilot with it but flying caracteristics are preserved. (note: even if there are very few limits with planes now :'( )
Now this sensitivity trick allows to nullify the efforts developpers provided to give realistic assets or drawbacks to specific units. A tiger HAS A VERY SLOW TURRET FOR EVERY FAIR PLAYERS, it has to be the same for everyone (however the slowest turning turrets should be tweaked a bit, as at the current point it is excessively painful to use them).
If someone acts in any way to get an instant aiming tiger turret, this is cheating.
I completly support Corvax's suggestion, it there is a way to prevent sensitivity changes for turret traverse at least in game, it has to be tried out.
Changes through mouse buttons are a bit more painful to use and less efficient (need to switch resolutions back and forth all the time), thus are not likely to be used on a wide scale and with an excessive result. There is no way to prevent this, but the effects are more acceptable.
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Yes thats what im talking about. You cant change it on a hardware level ( Mouse buttons and stuff ) but at least on the software level by setting everone on the same level. Than you would find out pretty fast if people are using the mouse buttons or the ingame settings, if cases decrease or stay on the same level ..
Any dev comment on this ? :(
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Is using a joystick to fly cheating?
Using a Joystick doesn't allow to overcome planes specific limits, it is more comfortable to pilot with it but flying caracteristics are preserved. (note: even if there are very few limits with planes now :'( )
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I don't agree that flying characteristics are preserved. Ever tried to fly with your mouse? When turning a plane in a dogfight I usually find my mouse ending up on the other side of the desk to maintain a tight turn. Even with high mouse sensitivity. And isn't this almost the same problem as with the turret turning rates?
Of course I could try to fly with my keyboard, but that isn't a real solution either. When pitching up/down in a plane I've got to press or release a button. Its 1 or 0, don't have 0,5 as an option as I would have with a joystick.
As it is now, everybody has the option to alter their own mouse sensitivity for land vehicles in game. Everybody can tweak their settings, this allows turrets to turn faster then intended (even with a non-gaming-mouse). Up to the point the mouse becomes a tad to sensitive to aim in a normal tank, like I said a couple of posts back.
Only tanks with very slow turret traversing speed will benefit marginally from adjusting the sensitivity on a gaming mouse, like it is now.
It might be a good idea to base the turret traversing speed in FH2 on the max mouse sensitivity for land vehicles and change the default in the controls.con to its max. But there's a drawback: setting the value while installing will affect BF2 and all mods installed. You've got max sensitivity with each mod you'll play.
Maybe there's a workaround and let the FH2.exe handle this. When starting FH2 search for the related line in controls.con, replace it with the value desired for FH2.exe. Then on closing FH2.exe restore the original value so BF2 and other mods won't suffer from the changed value.
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It might be a good idea to base the turret traversing speed in FH2 on the max mouse sensitivity for land vehicles and change the default in the controls.con to its max. But there's a drawback: setting the value while installing will affect BF2 and all mods installed. You've got max sensitivity with each mod you'll play.
Maybe there's a workaround and let the FH2.exe handle this. When starting FH2 search for the related line in controls.con, replace it with the value desired for FH2.exe. Then on closing FH2.exe restore the original value so BF2 and other mods won't suffer from the changed value.
Horrible, horrible idea. That will penalize anyone who doesn't set their sensitivity higher, as well as fucking up things like fine adjustments (even on things like Static MGs and AT Guns, since I believe they are technically "vehicles") as well as not helping anything, because I'm sure anyone can just force their sensitivity higher than that anyway. Not to mention it's way too much work just to fuck over maybe a dozen people who abuse the mouse sensitivity. It's not worth it.
Seriously, if you hate it that much, pay $50 bucks for a good mouse and use it yourself. Just don't get pissed off when when people who are using better tactics than you kick your ass anyway. Or if you don't want to do that: the next time you get pissed off by someone you believe is using a higher sensitivity, quit the server, and find a another one. Or make your own server and kick everyone who you think is playing unfairly (have fun playing alone). Or play with bots in SP.
Seriously, now I know why the Devs ignore practically every "suggestion" posted here: only the most whiny, butt hurt people ever come here to suggest fixes to things that ARE NOT A PROBLEM!! "Whaaa! I can't ROFLPWN everyone in my tank, someone must be cheating!" "Whaaa! I can't hit anything with the rifle I picked up for the first time 3 seconds ago, the recoil must be broken!" "Whaaa! I can't pretend to be God while I rain death upon my enemies from the sky, the plane physics must be broken!" "Whaaa! I want to be an SL but I don't wanna hide like a pansy, we need rally points!!"
It gets annoying...
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Horrible, horrible idea. That will penalize anyone who doesn't set their sensitivity higher, as well as fucking up things like fine adjustments (even on things like Static MGs and AT Guns, since I believe they are technically "vehicles") as well as not helping anything, because I'm sure anyone can just force their sensitivity higher than that anyway. Not to mention it's way too much work just to fuck over maybe a dozen people who abuse the mouse sensitivity. It's not worth it.
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Notice the 'and' in my previous post ;)
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It might be a good idea to base the turret traversing speed in FH2 on the max mouse sensitivity for land vehicles and change the default in the controls.con to its max.
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If you base turret traverse for tanks based on the max out settings and make sure it's maxed out by default, you won't penalize anybody cause everybody has the same settings. Static MGs and AT Guns will be affected yes, those should be adjusted accordingly.
I don't know how much work this is for the devs. Lets say they found out how to max out the sensitivy settings in the control.con. Then every land vehicle needs their sensitivity setting changed too. If there's a simple formula to determine the new sensitivity for all land vehicles (tanks, MGs, AT guns, etc.) let's say devide by 5, it might be worth the hassle.
If each vehicle needs to determine its new vehicle by try and error, its definitely not worth it.
And maybe important to remember: I based this on the fact that the ingame mouse sensitivity settings have a much greater effect on turret traversing speed then the hardware sensitivity of a gaming mouse.
My advise to people complaining about the fast turret traversing; change your ingame settings or learn to live with it.
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idea
Make no turrets traversable anymore
My God.
He's got it.
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You suggest to use cheat against cheat(or exploit against exploit, whatever)? Sounds stupid to me...
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ServerSettings.con
GameServerSettings.setNoVehicles 1
8)
You suggest to use cheat against cheat(or exploit against exploit, whatever)? Sounds stupid to me...
If everybody uses the same exploit, would it still be an exploit?
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If everybody uses the same exploit, would it still be an exploit?
If everybody uses the same exploit, it is an exploit everybody uses, nothing else. That doesn't fix anything.
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Tss, stop making this problem bigger then it is, lol.
The mouse sinsitivity "exploit" is just like the joystick "exploits" out there.
I have a mouse where i can adjust the sensitivitie, so what? it dousnt really give an advantage to the TEAM. Just like all the people that use a joystick out there, or the speed control function on it.
If you have a problem with it, go to a shop, spend 30 pounds, euro, dollars,... and voila, you have a fancy mouse yourself, happy?
I play this game on my 2 year old 15,4 inch laptop, on low settings, do you hear me complaining that its not fare that people that have bigger screens and better pc's can see much more details then me and therefore have an advantage when using a rifle at distance? This is a computer game people, some have better computers then others, it gives certain advantages, dont like it? buy a console and GTFO
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If everybody uses the same exploit, would it still be an exploit?
If everybody uses the same exploit, it is an exploit everybody uses, nothing else. That doesn't fix anything.
No, then it would be a feature of the game.
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Tss, stop making this problem bigger then it is, lol.
The mouse sinsitivity "exploit" is just like the joystick "exploits" out there.
I have a mouse where i can adjust the sensitivitie, so what? it dousnt really give an advantage to the TEAM. Just like all the people that use a joystick out there, or the speed control function on it.
If you have a problem with it, go to a shop, spend 30 pounds, euro, dollars,... and voila, you have a fancy mouse yourself, happy?
I play this game on my 2 year old 15,4 inch laptop, on low settings, do you hear me complaining that its not fare that people that have bigger screens and better pc's can see much more details then me and therefore have an advantage when using a rifle at distance? This is a computer game people, some have better computers then others, it gives certain advantages, dont like it? buy a console and GTFO
Siben, your totally right.
I never said that the whole mouse sensitivity is a problem. I just suggested a solution, off which I still think its a good solution for what some see as a problem.
Guys I'm off to my local pub, have a drink on me and please don't turn this in a bashing yes or no game ;)
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Tss, stop making this problem bigger then it is, lol.
The mouse sinsitivity "exploit" is just like the joystick "exploits" out there.
I have a mouse where i can adjust the sensitivitie, so what? it dousnt really give an advantage to the TEAM. Just like all the people that use a joystick out there, or the speed control function on it.
If you have a problem with it, go to a shop, spend 30 pounds, euro, dollars,... and voila, you have a fancy mouse yourself, happy?
I play this game on my 2 year old 15,4 inch laptop, on low settings, do you hear me complaining that its not fare that people that have bigger screens and better pc's can see much more details then me and therefore have an advantage when using a rifle at distance? This is a computer game people, some have better computers then others, it gives certain advantages, dont like it? buy a console and GTFO
Siben, your totally right.
I never said that the whole mouse sensitivity is a problem. I just suggested a solution, off which I still think its a good solution for what some see as a problem.
Guys I'm off to my local pub, have a drink on me and please don't turn this in a bashing yes or no game ;)
And i dont mind you did, it is your good right, it was just that this tread was derailing once again for the same old reasen.
And i will do the same as you, off to the local bar with some friends now, laterz all :)
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so..............summarising the thread a solution to a problem well know, but not a solution to a problem well know and hence the fighting. And now who ever reads this will know the past 2 pages of the thread.
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Dude, it's not cheating. Is having extra buttons on your mouse that you can assign more commands to (such as reload, bring up the map, and sprint) cheating? Is using a joystick to fly cheating? Is having a good enough computer that you don't have to turn down your view distance cheating? Is having a fast enough internet connection that you don't have to compensate for latency cheating?
Best point of the whole thread.
Seriously, live with it or buy mice like that as well and use it yourself...
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I don't understand why you guys had to resort to insulting each other lol. You guys are talking about mouse sensitivity ffs.
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I never seen anyone use this 'exploit'. Have any of you guys ever even tried speeding up sensitivity to check if this is not some urban legend?
Also, lol, I imagine you can't aim for sh*t with such a high sensitivity, it would only be useful for extremely close combat, let's say 10 metres. It comes with a downside. It's only use is that the turret spins faster so AT infantry can't get close to your tank.
Seriously, what frustrated nerd would script macro's to exploit turret traversion? I imagine he'd rather spend his time hacking his neighbour's computer or something. :P
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The only really usefull thing that i found with it is so that the stationary 88's move faster, making it easier to shoot down planes, becouse you can now sometimes get 2 shots off.
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If u say it doesnt affect your gameplay experience you fail at playing shooters:P When i played Americas Army a lot and my only goal was making single shot cqb headshots i used to turn up my mouse sensitivity once in a while to be faster than the rest. ofc it has a learning curve, you need to adjust your movements, but the outcome can be really good. The only problem i have with the mouse sensitivity speed adjustments in fh is that unique tanks have a unique turrets traverse, one is slower than the other. By making your mouse more sensitive this screws it up a bit. But in the end i think its just something you need to get over with, since its more or like our problem as gamers, and not the problem of the developers.
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If u say it doesnt affect your gameplay experience you fail at playing shooters:P When i played Americas Army a lot and my only goal was making single shot cqb headshots i used to turn up my mouse sensitivity once in a while to be faster than the rest. ofc it has a learning curve, you need to adjust your movements, but the outcome can be really good. The only problem i have with the mouse sensitivity speed adjustments in fh is that unique tanks have a unique turrets traverse, one is slower than the other. By making your mouse more sensitive this screws it up a bit. But in the end i think its just something you need to get over with, since its more or like our problem as gamers, and not the problem of the developers.
The problem is not the changing of mouse sensitivity, its the fact that some mouses can change is with the click of a button. I increase the settings everytime i instal a game using the ingame options, where you can also change the settings. Nothing wrong with that.
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Guys could you just fucking stop posting so much BS ?!
Hello ? If you can turn a Tigers turret faster than infantry can turn around, its a fucking exploit ! Its cheating !
You gain unfair advantage over others who have to live with the freaking slow turret traversing speed that was intended. Its plain fucking lame and everyone who does that has a small penis. Point.
I dont freaking care about you nerds saying "I can do that with my mouse so its okay" Its all the same ! Cheat -> lame -> Small penis ! Its like drawing a crosshair on your screen to aim with stuff without having to look down the sights. Plain lame !
This seriously has to be changed ..
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No its something wich has been in games since when? the first fps? I say close this one since u kindly called everyone a nerd.
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Oh boy, the name calling begins, i am getting out of here before i get locked in with the rest of this tread.
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Many people said "it's fair, they paid for their hardware blablabla"...
For me, the problem is that seeing a Tiger traverse it's turret 180° in 2 seconds ruins the atmosphere and feeling of the game.
I don't care how much money you put into your mice, it shouldn't let you do surreal stuff that makes the game look ridiculous.
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Have you seen this? Honestly, even with the highest settings i still have to move my mouse at least 5 to 6 times from left to right to do a turn around, and it takes more then 2 seconds.
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Have you seen this? Honestly, even with the highest settings i still have to move my mouse at least 5 to 6 times from left to right to do a turn around, and it takes more then 2 seconds.
Right.
Now let's compare this to the normal behaviour with sensitivity=1 -> something like 70 mouse moves, and around 40 seconds for a turn (and as I set my mouse carpet in fire with that trial, I bet it's even more in real playing conditions ...).
Not even starting to see something is wrong ?
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Have you seen this? Honestly, even with the highest settings i still have to move my mouse at least 5 to 6 times from left to right to do a turn around, and it takes more then 2 seconds.
Right.
Now let's compare this to the normal behaviour with sensitivity=1 -> something like 70 mouse moves, and around 40 seconds for a turn (and as I set my mouse carpet in fire with that trial, I bet it's even more in real playing conditions ...).
Not even starting to see something is wrong ?
I sure do, ever tried moving the tank? It gous a LOT faster.
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Guys could you just fucking stop posting so much BS ?!
Hello ? If you can turn a Tigers turret faster than infantry can turn around, its a fucking exploit ! Its cheating !
You gain unfair advantage over others who have to live with the freaking slow turret traversing speed that was intended. Its plain fucking lame and everyone who does that has a small penis. Point.
I dont freaking care about you nerds saying "I can do that with my mouse so its okay" Its all the same ! Cheat -> lame -> Small penis ! Its like drawing a crosshair on your screen to aim with stuff without having to look down the sights. Plain lame !
This seriously has to be changed ..
Thanks for saying what I didn't dare to say ::)
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Yes i have seen it. Numerous times. People who turn Tiger turrets so insanely fast so that they can follow and kill you with it while being infantry and running around the tank :O (w/o moving the tank itself, its pretty scary)
Just because you didn't see it yet it doesn't mean it isn't there. Turning 180° in LESS then 2 seconds is absolutely possible. If you don't know how, maybe you just didn't figure out how to exploit right yet ..
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Btw, can't it just be coded so that turrets have maximum traverse speed, no matter how fast you use mouse or how high someones sensitivity is? Altough, if it was that simple, it would already be in, I quess :-\
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People need to STFU.
They are fucking getting owned by Tigers all the fucking time because the turret turns fast. Screw that!
3 of 100 Tiger drivers i have ever seen in my entire Fh2 life used this "Exploit" or "Cheat", stop crying, if you dont like it, delete your Forum account and go and cry in a corner.
Getting pwnd? Grab 70$, like they did, and go and buy one of these mouses.
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My only fear with this topic is that Devs take it at face value and assume everyone is abusing it, and change it, thus fucking over everyone (99% of people) who do not abuse it.
Like I said before, I hope they ignore this topic like they seem to ignore 97% of all the suggestions in this sub-forum.
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The entire topic is about a solution looking for a problem. Despite hundreds of hours spent in FH2, I've seen this exploit used only ONCE. And even then, that ended badly for the user: the Tiger driver zipped his turret around to shoot at an infantryman who was not even an AT guy. Meanwhile, a Crusader appeared in his front and hit him in the suddenly exposed rear turret. Scratch one kittah.
While more sensitivity means that the turret turns faster, for precise aiming you have to tone it down anyway, which takes time (and a keypress) while the non-adjusting user just points and shoots. I find that a constant turret speed is much easier to aim with anyway rather than changing sensitivity back and forth. I do have a variable-sensitivity mouse, and after a couple of rounds of playing I found that I have much more use for two extra buttons (right now mapped for map and map scaling) rather than something which I would rarely need and would not usually be worth the effort. If I HAVE to turn my turret 180 degrees in one second something probably went wrong with my tactics already. And in FH2 vehicle combat, tactics ARE more important than reflexes (or mouse sensitivity). And apparently most FH2 players think along similar lines, otherwise everyone and their dog would be using this "exploit".
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For tank combat I agree, this doesn't matter that much. However, as in your story it was the infantryman who got screwed over by the exploit, not the tank.
Go around Piating Panthers in the back and it'll become very apparent who is using this exploit. With Tigers even with it you have a second or so to hide, but with panthers if you're not very well hidden from where you shoot you're screwed if they've got their sensitivity way up.
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My question is. What is the original mousensens.? I m playing with 2.5 and planes on 10. But what is the best for a superrealistic gameplay?
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i dunno, i usualy put it between 3,5 and 4,5 depanding on the game. I fly with keyboard only.
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What's the default setting?
Server rules or something? kick and ban dickheads? As you kick Tk'ers why you wouldn't kick 'em if it is that big problem.
Never met a tanker using that. And not really bothered when I'll see first one.
And what I would guess, no one really can't do a shit about this. You set a rate how fast turret moves and it's mutiplied by the number of your sensitivy setting. Those who have better mouse, can even get it more faster.