Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Feedback => General => Topic started by: Kev4000 on 13-09-2011, 01:09:09
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In 2.4, we implemented new tank turret acceleration/deceleration handling.
We've been very restricted in exactly how these operate due to BF2 engine limitations. Thus unfortunately there is no way to, for example, keep the new acceleration and old deceleration.
Anyhow, please give your feedback and experiences.
1.) What did you think of it at first try?
2.) What do you now think of it?
3.) Do you find the new system better overall? Give pros and cons.
Only for high pingers 100+ (please state your usual ping)
4.) Does the jitter/wharping lag affect your skill level when aiming? If so, how much?
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Well I'm not a tanker in general, I use them only sometimes on tank maps, but I find that at close quarter tank battles the way the turret turns in 2.4 make harder to aim well the other tank. For the ping I play in general with 110ping so i'm kinda habituated to to see the guy I shooted first(and start bleeding) finally kills me, so I can say that now it takes me longer to aim, I have less time to kill the guy before he kills me.
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At the first try it was quiet hard to controll the turret of the tanks. But after the hint with decreasing the mouse sensitivity of the tanks everything works fine now and I am quiet used to it. Due to the fact, that I mostly use StuG's, when ever I can get one, the turret acceleration isn't a big problem for me. The only vehicles, that is near to uncontrollable for me is the Puma. The turret is spinning around like hell and the acceleration is compared to all other tanks much too high also with decreased mouse sensitivity. But all in all the new system is a big success connected with the angle system and makes it more interesting. You really need more skill and the guy in the better tank is not always the winner.
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1) Slow as hell
2) Awesome
3) Pros - Fight Tigers with Cromwell at close range by flanking it is now possible, Turret handling now feel more like real, APC MG is not oversensitive as it was in 2.3 due to high Tank mouse sensitivity. Cons - Almost impossible to shot down planes with Crusader AA
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1.) At first try i was afraid to don't be able to kill any enemy tank anymore ;D But after few try i have found the way to use it, and i found it better than before but there are still few things to improve IMO.
2.) About the acceleration everything is good IMO, you now feel to handle an heavy and mechanic activated tank turret when you start to move it and this stick more to the reality of real WW2 tank. The main issue is the deceleration due to the sliding effect. I'm all for having a slow rotation turret speed but IRL when the shooter of the tank was stopping to action the rotation of the turret, the turret was stopping instantaneously to move. It's a mechanic effect so there is no slide effect at all. The issue in FH2 with that is the aiming accuracy has been impacted by this change and it's still the case IMO whatever your mouse sensibility setting are.
3.) Yes but it need to be improve again (my average ping is about 20) :
Good point = more realistic, more chance for infantry to flank heavy tanks and avoid to have crazy turret (360° overall in few seconds...). Also it add a real weight turret feeling.
Bad point = it's decreasing to much the aiming accuracy especially on tank like the Panzer IV, Puma...etc... It seems to impact more the medium and light tanks than the heavy ones.
4.) Yes, now it's always hard to directly stop your sight on the enemy, you have to calculate a kind of delay to try to aim as more accurate as you can. In fact you have to stop to move your mouse (I'm using mouse for turret rotation) before to be on your target to try to put your sight on it at first try. Which is if you fail a major issue because the quickness of aiming and firing is the most important fact is tank combat.
What would be grate is to keep this new effect of acceleration but to find a way to instantaneously stop the rotation when the player stop to action it. It seem that you can't keep the old deceleration with the new acceleration due to the BF2 engine so what i could suggest is to add a new button in tank control panel to stop the turret rotation. It would act as a brake on the rotation and the player will have to press it at the good moment to be directly on is target and to avoid the slide effect, but i don't know if you can do that.
Hope my feedback and suggestion will help you.
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1.) What did you think of it at first try?
Hard to do and kinda annoyed me till i got the hang of it with a trick(see below what i did)
2.) What do you now think of it?
Awesome.I now tank using my Gamepad and it works like a charm!
3.) Do you find the new system better overall? Give pros and cons.
yes i do find it better overall first because of the way it handles and secondly because of the new ballistics
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1) Hmm, this is a nice idea, Anubis will be pissed :)
2) I love it. Although greyhound is hard to handle now.
3) Ping = 180. Definitely better, much more realistic. Not every shot is an instant kill, similar to some guys with rifles nowadays. It is perfectly fine as it is now, IMO.
4) Yes, it is harder, but more fun. Also, it becomes easier with some practice.
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1. Great idea and was much needed. Super agile laser turrets needed to be brought down.
2. Still great.
3. Pros: One of the best new features. Cons: M8 Greyhound is not very agile/now more clumsy compared to everything else.
4. Pings don't seem to negatively effect my tanking experience.
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Anyhow, please give your feedback and experiences.
1.) What did you think of it at first try?
Interesting, without knowing to turn down sensitivity it was a pain in the ass.
2.) What do you now think of it?
Used to it, but like the angle mod it has some very annoying flaws. The limit to your maximum isn't just a static limit even though it tries to be: when you turn too fast the turret reacts awkwardly and can often jumpy or skip in place, if you could work it so no matter how fast you move the mouse the turret turns at a set speed it would be better, although I know that's probably more work then worth.
3.) Do you find the new system better overall? Give pros and cons.
Pros: No more super Tigers
Cons: Some vehicles (Greyhound/Puma) are not set correctly, minor glitches in the code/hardware interaction settings I listed above.
4.) Does the jitter/wharping lag affect your skill level when aiming? If so, how much?
It only effects it against moving targets, and generally only up close. But in certain situations, it's very very shitty.
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The new turret must be pretty hard on noobs and sometimes they use the mouse anyway, which makes tanks look even more unrealistic... Wouldn't it be simpler to add something like cod 2 tanking with a delay on the turret ?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgaEGnqW_BM&feature=related)
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I pick the light tanks since then. Can't handle the acceleration when moving turrets. Have been killed several times while trying to aim at an enemy tank. I'm also annoyed when shooting infantry with the coaxial MG. The coaxial MG doesn't hit on the tip but somewhat besides it. But when I re-adjust, I turn the turret much to far. Yes, I'm using the mouse to turn the turret.
The only advantage I see is for infantry facing tanks. You get zooked thrice before killing that infantry guy with your coaxial MG.
However, I didn't practice much.
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Did you turn your mouse sensitivity all the way down to zero for tanks? If not, then theres your problem.
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Actually I'm not really sure which of all those controls is for tanks. I only believe it is defaultPlayerInputControlMap while HelicopterPlayerInputControlMap did not have any effect on heavy tanks. So, no I did not add a sensitivity value for defaultPlayerInputControlMap while my HelicopterPlayerInputControlMap sensitivity is 4.2.
See, this is what it came down to: science. That is annoying me.
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Well, you can change it from the options menu. It's the one that says 'tanks'.
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Well, I can't find satisfying mounse sensitivity - i can't aim precisely, but when I lower 0.1 sensitivity, the turret speed becomes very slow, which I can't accept... ::)
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Use a gamepad or a joystick for the turret...It works wonders.
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Well, it's difficult to imagine this, but I will try...
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Try starting by moving the mouse veeery slowly. Its not only how far you move the mouse anymore - its about how fast you accelerate it. This can be used advantageously as well, to do a full 180 turn with the flick of a wrist intead of straining it back and forth 10 times to get to your position.
There's no more advantage to -move mouse right quickly - lift up move to left - lower to pad move to right. Turret max speed is now entirely mechanical, doesn't
Code wise, its the HelicopterInputControlMap. This was changed in 2.4, to allow separate sensitivity for tanks, as well as more controls as found in the tank options.
4.7 is waaaay high, especially if used in combination with a high DPI mouse. Try setting it anywhere from 0.25 - 2. However, keep in mind, sensitivity is not relative to how fast you accelerate the mouse. If you turn it so down 5x and move your mouse 5x faster, you're not getting any more accurate aim.
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1. That i was bugged or something, then i found out it was a new feature. Its a great idea but when i found that its way too laggy for me, i dislike it.
2. I dont like it.
3. Pros: I think it makes tank combat more fair in a specific way, like, no more super fast tiger turrets, for example.
Cons: Its terrible for high pingers.
4: My ping in Euro servers is: 240ms
US Servers: 170ms.
So this new feature completly ruined my tanking experience. Makes me wanna evade FH2 at all costs. FH2 was all about tanks for me, hate INF combat because of my ping, i cant kill anyone, so i lived with tanks, life becomes easier. Now this feature came up and fucked everything up. I cant aim, i cant kill, i cant enjoy the game no more. No, i will never be able to get adapted to it, nor by just getting used to it (Moving my mouse slowly) or using Arrow Keys, wich dont get affected by lag.
In other way it makes tank combat extremly easy for low pingers. I had a tank to tank combat a couple of days ago with an Euro player. He had a Daimler and i had a Pz IV, i couldnt aim, it was just too fucking annoying, i felt sad.
I think this needs to be revised, FH2 needs to be fair for everyone, and i have been playing FH2 since day one, and it saddens me alot that FH2 has this feature on tanks, that i wont be able to enjoy a fine Kursk map because of this.
Noone should be offended with this post. ;D
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1.) What did you think of it at first try?
I asked how can I fix the lag/skipping and thought that if this can't be fixed it will suck.
2.) What do you now think of it?
I find it quite okay, no more sensitivity cheaters... On the other hand I hate the fact that I have to move my mouse all over the table to turn the turret completely (really pronounced on heavier tanks, no problem on light ones, in fact light tanks turn even too fast!)
3.) Do you find the new system better overall? Give pros and cons.
Pros
Now skill matters even more and the better positioned tank will probably win even against an opponent that can aim better. Coupled with the angle system it causes extremely exciting tank battles that do not end in 2 secs like before. (That is if both tanks are head on, and about the same class... if one manages to outflank or outclass the other then it's almost the same as before).
Cons
Sometimes laggy, and may turn off the newcomers if they don't know how to fix it.
Only for high pingers 100+ (please state your usual ping)
4.) Does the jitter/wharping lag affect your skill level when aiming? If so, how much?
My ping is usually under 100 but if I play on a server >200 it starts to get a bit unfair against low pingers...
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I can't stop thinking the terrible starting speed of the new M26 will be applied to every tank in the next patch in order to get more "realism".
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Unlikely.
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I feel tanks turn to freely now. I do like the fact that it isnt precise anymore, but then, it seems to be able to swivel completely pass the target and I need to swivel it back. Shouldnt be THAT insensitive.
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The only vehicles, that is near to uncontrollable for me is the Puma. The turret is spinning around like hell and the acceleration is compared to all other tanks much too high also with decreased mouse sensitivity.
I am also not a big tanker, but I have played many rounds on Lüttich just driving the Puma. And Shitmaker is absolutly right(!). Its turret is really going crazy its xtremly hard to controll compared to other tanks. With the Puma you have to circle, ambush you enemys and ofcourse you have to be the one with the first shot, since pretty much everyother gun mounted on a vehicle is going oneshot you. I would defenitly do some more kills if the turret was better.
I know it shouldnt turn to fast since at had to be turned by hand (as far as I know), but acceleration it has now makes no sence.
Offtopic: Could that thing really be destroye by one shot of a 37mm gun, would be great if this was changed. And did the MG42 really hat that far away from the centre of the scope? Right kow you have to aim with with the triagle right of the central one, so its really far away.
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[...]With the Puma you have to circle, ambush you enemys and ofcourse you have to be the one with the first shot, since pretty much everyother gun mounted on a vehicle is going oneshot you. [...]
Did you ever used a Sherman?
1) wtf
2) I do not like that i cannot stop on target. Do I really have to use the keyboard or joystick?
3) it's a step in the right direction but still needs some finish
4) i think so (ping is 55 to 125 depending on server (europe to russia))