Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Suggestions => Topic started by: DeFly on 08-03-2016, 13:03:06

Title: Finish the italians
Post by: DeFly on 08-03-2016, 13:03:06
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ts4EVER on 08-03-2016, 13:03:39
About the scoped Carcano: The Italians did not issue sniper rifles during WW2.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: SadCamelion on 08-03-2016, 14:03:14
yeah, for me they look unfinished too.
Good to hear that I'm not the only one to think so!

Not only the lack of equipment, the fact that they were fighting in (almost) all battles in Afrika but in FH, they are only at... 4 maps I think. In reality they ever assisted the Germans. In FH it seems like they are not important, only on a few maps their tanks are existant, but not the soldiers...
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: GeoPat on 08-03-2016, 14:03:55
If someone is going to do that please make a L3/33 and/or L3/35  tankette.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Not So Civil Engy on 08-03-2016, 15:03:15
Does anyone actually use the mine detectors?
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: McCloskey on 08-03-2016, 15:03:20
Does anyone actually use the mine detectors?

No.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: ajappat on 08-03-2016, 16:03:09
Does anyone actually use the mine detectors?

No.

In all years I have played, they have saved me a couple of times. It's pretty common that someone puts mine under empty enemy tank. When in doubt, you can check underside of tracks with detector. Otherwise it's obviously easier to just look for the mines with magic eyes :P.

I wouldn't cry after them were they removed or something  ::).

Edit: Solothurn actually is used on saharana (or something) scout car. I wonder if we ever will get handheld version of it and same goes for Lahti L39. They are pretty big weapons and could look comical if used like Boys.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Kalkalash on 08-03-2016, 16:03:31
Edit: Solothurn actually is used on saharana (or something) scout car. I wonder if we ever will get handheld version of it and same goes for Lahti L39. They are pretty big weapons and could look comical if used like Boys.
I guess they could work like deployable MGs.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 08-03-2016, 20:03:42
If someone is going to do that please make a L3/33 and/or L3/35  tankette.
This
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 08-03-2016, 20:03:04
Interesting mines you listed. I'd never seen those before. :)

I'd love to see the Italians finished too, but that's a lot of work you listed right there. It would take a good chunk of time to get them in properly.

Regarding the maps that they're not on. It's kinda a preference thing. In most battles like gazala and el alemein there were about equal numbers of Germans and Italians. But you can only have one voice on a map. So either you pick an army or pull a sidi rezegh or Tunis and have Italians speaking German.

Also, you're not gonna get those stationary weapon models for a map like Bardia. Maybe if FH2 goes to an Italian front there will be incentive to polish them up.  :)
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ts4EVER on 08-03-2016, 20:03:09
Also note that while Germans and Italians fought together, that doesn't mean they fought together on a tactical level very often, like would be the case on an actual FH2 map. They had their own divisions holding their parts of the front, so outside special circumstances it wouldn't be like Germans and Italians sitting in the same trench, fighting together.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: tempest on 09-03-2016, 07:03:08
I'd love for the Italians to get polished up and get to be in more maps, but obviously the devs are focusing on the Eastern front more right now (as they should be, given its importance to WW2).

...That said, the Italians DID fight a bit on the Eastern front... ;)
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Hauggy on 09-03-2016, 10:03:54
I'd love for the Italians to get polished up and get to be in more maps, but obviously the devs are focusing on the Eastern front more right now (as they should be, given its importance to WW2).

...That said, the Italians DID fight a bit on the Eastern front... ;)
That being said that would require new player models so dream on.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Sir.Don on 09-03-2016, 21:03:58
I'd love for the Italians to get polished up and get to be in more maps, but obviously the devs are focusing on the Eastern front more right now (as they should be, given its importance to WW2).

...That said, the Italians DID fight a bit on the Eastern front... ;)
Yup, they did. I don't really want all that new models, but they should just fix weapons and improve the models that are now using
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 09-03-2016, 22:03:31
I'd love for the Italians to get polished up and get to be in more maps, but obviously the devs are focusing on the Eastern front more right now (as they should be, given its importance to WW2).

...That said, the Italians DID fight a bit on the Eastern front... ;)
That being said that would require new player models so dream on.
Just curious,from where PR community gets playermodels? I guess they didnt made all od them..
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ts4EVER on 09-03-2016, 22:03:21
AFAIK they just reskin vanilla BF2 ones and make new kitmeshes, with the exception of the Vietnam and WW2 ones, which are from other mods.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: DeFly on 11-03-2016, 14:03:21
What do you guys think about this italian army models? they are taken from Sniper Elite III, maybe they could be a source of inspiration for future development. They are respectively an ordinary infantryman a Folgore paratrooper and an officer.
Spoiler
(http://orig05.deviantart.net/de2d/f/2014/189/8/9/sniper_elite_3_italian_infantry_01_by_luxox18-d7punvg.jpg)
Spoiler
(http://pre08.deviantart.net/3278/th/pre/f/2014/200/2/a/sniper_elite_3_italian_elite_by_luxox18-d7remr4.jpg)
Spoiler
(http://orig13.deviantart.net/543b/f/2014/200/f/9/sniper_elite_3_italian_officer_by_luxox18-d7rfa0p.jpg)
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: jan_kurator on 11-03-2016, 14:03:34
FH2 doesn't need inspiration, it needs more developers if you want to see new models in game. ::) Also, posting other games' models as an inspiration is almost an insult here :P
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: DeFly on 11-03-2016, 14:03:38
FH2 doesn't need inspiration, it needs more developers if you want to see new models in game. ::) Also, posting other games' models as an inspiration is almost an insult here :P
I was just tring to raise the awernes that the italian faction is(as in every WWII game in the istory of mankid) snubbed, i would be helpfull but i don't know nothig about 3D modelig and so on, maybe you can show me some tutorial? and why is an insul they are just images i don't understand?
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 11-03-2016, 14:03:10
and why is an insul they are just images i don't understand?
::)
(old forum members going away)

Its not really insult,but we all have internet,dont we? There are enough history searchers here but you didnt do anything wrong. We know that they are unfinished,but everything is unfinished here. You cant make every battle and every weapon. If some dev get one day crazy inspiration and free time,they will do. But until then,..
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ronson on 11-03-2016, 15:03:41
Does anyone actually use the mine detectors?
Pretty useless most of the time as you need to get so close to a mine to detect it, but I've used them occasionally on maps like Mareth (as Brits) where you have major choke points for advancing tanks. Those bridges before the first flags often get mined by sneaky stay-behind squads who can take out tank after tank after Brits have capped the flags. I've saved a few tanks by guarding the bridge as an engineer, finding mines with the detector and taking them out with the wrench.

Would miss them if they're removed, but I would like to see them beefed up so you can detect mines in a much larger radius, if that's possible?
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Sir.Don on 11-03-2016, 15:03:03
and why is an insul they are just images i don't understand?
::)
(old forum members going away)

Its not really insult,but we all have internet,dont we? There are enough history searchers here but you didnt do anything wrong. We know that they are unfinished,but everything is unfinished here. You cant make every battle and every weapon. If some dev get one day crazy inspiration and free time,they will do. But until then,..
I understand what you're saying, but to be honest, I think other nation are way more completed. I mean, britain has all the sten models for example, Italians don't even have their smoke granade or mine, it's not the same.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ts4EVER on 11-03-2016, 15:03:52
"Britain has all the Sten Models."

Not really, we have:

Sten MKII

(http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/smg/smg27/sten_mkII.jpg)

Sten MKIIS

(http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/smg/smg27/sten_mkII_s.jpg)

Sten MKV

(http://40.media.tumblr.com/723704c665dce6cf4725145a5aebb63a/tumblr_mkw8myuyDb1s57vgxo4_r1_1280.jpg)

Of those that were actually used, we are still missing:

Sten MKI

(http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/smg/smg27/sten_mkI.jpg)

Sten MKI*

(http://collectorebooks.com/jamesauction/subguns/image1/34655.jpg)

Sten MKIII

(http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/images/uploads/sten%20mk3%20with%20sling/sten_mk3ns(1).jpg)
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: jan_kurator on 11-03-2016, 15:03:44
How many games with Italian faction are there? I think FH2 did well enough with its 8 armies and 45 maps. Devs are doing their best and I bet they will add more Italian toys as soon as anybody will have time to model and code them, but it takes more than a request from a random guy on a public forum, not to mention that development is focused on the Eastern Front now. Maybe if somebody will make a map with Italian army on the Eastern Front they would get more attention, but that's rather unlikely.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Stubbfan on 11-03-2016, 15:03:28
We have been adding things every now and then even if it's not as extensive as other factions. Semovente 75/18 was added last patch, and MC200+MC202 was added not that (by fh2 version standards :) ) long ago.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: SadCamelion on 11-03-2016, 15:03:02
We know that they are unfinished,but everything is unfinished here. You cant make every battle and every weapon. If some dev get one day crazy inspiration and free time,they will do. But until then,..

good to hear that you guys want to complete them if you find time:)
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Not So Civil Engy on 11-03-2016, 16:03:42
it takes more than a request from a random guy on a public forum

I think this pretty much sums up Jan's attitude. There is nothing wrong with people posting recommendations. Stop treating people as outsiders.

I've been seeing a lot of posts in game about noobs, and how people should go back to COD.  Frankly, it is disappointing. If people want to guarantee FH2's death, keep discouraging new people from partaking in the community.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: jan_kurator on 11-03-2016, 16:03:00
There are equal rules (http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=18.0) on this forum for everybody and a search button for new comers, but yet every now and then somebody notice an obvious thing missing and post about what should be added, thinking like FH2 is made by countless number of people with unlimitted time just waiting for people to post suggestions, which are usually poorly made, not to mention that most of the above was posted multiple times here in the past :)
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: 0utlaw on 11-03-2016, 17:03:54

how people should go back to COD.

cod is garbage imo, i will never play those games
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Seth_Soldier on 11-03-2016, 19:03:57
we are a mod,
things can come pretty fast or pretty slow.
 
 :) i remember the day of the US army release, i've produced most of the guns in 2 months and there is so many weapons done since at least 2010 waiting to be featured. But nowadays i'm so slow.

From my point of view, Italians will get fresh content when FH2 land in Sicily or when a new modder, italian addict, will pop in
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Zoologic on 11-03-2016, 19:03:12
After 8 years, I still think that we already have a pretty decent, dedicated Italian Army quite well represented in FH2. Although, we always need more and keep wanting more. Yes, one day we will have Sicily, Anzio, Gothic Line, yeah... one day.

Back in FH0.7, there isn't much Italians to see.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ts4EVER on 11-03-2016, 19:03:21
Note that the Italians were almost not involved in Anzio or the Gothic Line...
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Zoologic on 11-03-2016, 20:03:29
Yes, I forgot about that. I can't think of any engagements in the Continental Europe that involved more Italian army than the Germans.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: SadCamelion on 11-03-2016, 22:03:37
Yes, I forgot about that. I can't think of any engagements in the Continental Europe that involved more Italian army than the Germans.
in the landing on sicily, or not?
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Zoologic on 12-03-2016, 05:03:30
"Island of Sicily", I mean the engagement in the mainland Italy. It would be fun to see full scale battle between allied forces against the somewhat mismatched Italian weaponry. The only thing that is more than comparable in terms of hardware, I think it is the Macchi MC.202.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: SadCamelion on 12-03-2016, 11:03:05
against the shermans they would have a chance, but churchills for example... it is so hard to even kill a matilda with the italians :(
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ts4EVER on 12-03-2016, 11:03:41
Note that the Italians had no armored division on Sicily. Their only tanks on their were assault guns (like the ones already ingame) and various captured French tanks, including WW1 FT17 derivatives.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Zoologic on 12-03-2016, 15:03:35
against the shermans they would have a chance, but churchills for example... it is so hard to even kill a matilda with the italians :(

Early war German equipments are also ineffective against the Matilda Mk.2. In the real world, they called the tank "Queen of the Battlefields" for this reason. Hence, FH2's portrayal is quite realistic.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: VonMudra on 12-03-2016, 17:03:25
First off, who says Italians have to fight for the Axis?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Co-belligerent_Army

These guys saw tons of combat from Monte Cassino all the way through the Gothic Line and the final allied offensives, fighting with both the Americans and the British armies, and succeeding beyond the Allied high command's wildest dreams.

Then the RSI participated in at least one major offensive with some success in 1944:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Garfagnana

Also, the last parachute attack in Europe was the highly successful Operation Herring , carried out by the Italian Co-belligerent Army's Nembo assualt group:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Herring

So there, 3 big ideas that can be used.  Hell, we already have the character models for Gothic Line era Co-Belligerent Army, as they simply wore British uniforms and kit.  The only big differences were insignia and that the Alpini and Bersaglieri continued to wear their feather plumes on the British helmets.

(http://i.imgur.com/7GQJLet.jpg)
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: VonMudra on 12-03-2016, 17:03:04
I should also note that the those fought before the Gothic Line, like 1st Motorized at Monte Lungo during Cassino, were wearing Italian Tropical uniforms- so they'd literally just be the current Italian desert army, just fighting in the Cassino area.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 12-03-2016, 19:03:28
So battle Italians vs Italians?  ;D
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: tempest on 12-03-2016, 19:03:38
So battle Italians vs Italians?  ;D

Perfect!   ;D
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: jan_kurator on 12-03-2016, 20:03:56
Operation Herring sounds like a very interesting scenario for a map. I would love to see that one portrayed in FH2 one day  :)
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Zoologic on 13-03-2016, 07:03:09
Thanks Mudra, that's a new thing for me. I guess every nation in WW2 has a side story where their side don't have to end in disgrace (e.g. France, China).

Such map represents the early mission of Forgotten Hope mod very well: to introduce obscure battles and daring participation from lesser nations in the major conflict of WW2 to the gamers.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: VonMudra on 13-03-2016, 15:03:21
So battle Italians vs Italians?  ;D

No dice on that- they were specifically deployed to not have to face RSI units.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Alubat on 13-03-2016, 16:03:35
Operation Herring sounds like a very interesting scenario for a map. I would love to see that one portrayed in FH2 one day  :)

Yup. never tried http://battlegroup42.wikia.com/wiki/4504-Operation_Herring

(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/battlegroup42/images/5/5c/4504-Operation_Herring_map.png)

Could be awesome in a FH2 remake :-)
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: jan_kurator on 13-03-2016, 17:03:32
Looks like it's scaled too much and arcadish. All Battlegroup42 maps looks the same for me.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Slayer on 13-03-2016, 17:03:38
So battle Italians vs Italians?  ;D

No dice on that- they were specifically deployed to not have to face RSI units.
A little like the Japanese Americans who fought on the Italian front, because the US Army wanted to avoid them fighting any Japanese soldiers.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ts4EVER on 17-03-2016, 21:03:56
Operation Herring sounds like a very interesting scenario for a map. I would love to see that one portrayed in FH2 one day  :)

Yup. never tried http://battlegroup42.wikia.com/wiki/4504-Operation_Herring

(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/battlegroup42/images/5/5c/4504-Operation_Herring_map.png)

Could be awesome in a FH2 remake :-)

I looked at the area in Google Earth and it is flat as a table with the occasional village and orchard. Dunno you could make a good infantry map out of it.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: VonMudra on 18-03-2016, 04:03:15
I'd say it's all about design- the battle was, after all, over a bridge or two, plus villages.  Sounds like a good mix of country and town combat, with focal point being the bridge.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Zoologic on 18-03-2016, 04:03:46
Pretty much like Pegasus Bridge then, allied paratroopers trying to wrestle a bridge that is important for German defensive line.

Minus the gliders and German counter attack.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: VonMudra on 18-03-2016, 05:03:33
Basically, yep.  The interesting thing is that they were almost entirely armed with Beretta SMGs- so that would make for...interesting combat.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ts4EVER on 18-03-2016, 14:03:22
Do you know anything about their uniforms? Could the British Paratrooper models we have (maybe with different ammo pouches) be used for them?
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: VonMudra on 18-03-2016, 16:03:44
Yes, they effectively wore British para uniforms.  They also wore British helmets.  Here is a photo of them prior to the attack:

(http://www.congedatifolgore.com/news/fotonews/herring.jpg)
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ts4EVER on 18-03-2016, 16:03:16
Interesting. Sadly it seems to small scale an action to make a proper 100p map out of it, otherwise I would be seriously tempted :D
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: VonMudra on 18-03-2016, 17:03:18
Well you could always couple it with the British advance to meet them, as Herring was undertaken in support of the British 8th Army's push to the Po River.  So basically hybrid it with British pushing from the south against German defenses, plus Italian para (represented with the assualt kit with a Beretta) spawning behind the German lines around the bridges over the Po).  The Operation itself lasted 72 hours and there was wide dispersal of the italian para on both sides of the bridge, so it wouldn't be unfair to think there were periods during with the Italian para were both fighting behind German lines and fighting alongside the Brits in pushing over the bridges.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 18-03-2016, 17:03:42
It sounds like the entire thing would be within the scale of Pegasus, Port-en-Bessin and Purple Heart Lane. So I'd say it isnt too small of a battle to make a map out of.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: VonMudra on 18-03-2016, 21:03:47
Agreed with that, so it works with or without the British army being shown participating too.  Also, this thread still includes my notes about the RSI offensive in late 1944, and the other Italian Royal Army actions undertaken on the allied side at Monte Cassino, the Gothic Line drive, and during the breakout from the Gothic Line.  The best part about those is that for Monte Cassino, the Italians were wearing their standard tropical kit and using their normal weapons (so literally the same as their africa skins), and for the rest of it they wore British uniforms and used British weapons, with the only differences being insignia, beretta SMGs (as well as thompsons, don't think I've yet seen them using stens), and if you show the Bersag/Alpini units, the feather plumes attached to their british helmets.


Basically, you have literally everything you need to make them work already completed.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 19-03-2016, 12:03:06
Wow,really special battle
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: Not So Civil Engy on 21-03-2016, 17:03:39
Does anyone actually use the mine detectors?
Pretty useless most of the time as you need to get so close to a mine to detect it, but I've used them occasionally on maps like Mareth (as Brits) where you have major choke points for advancing tanks. Those bridges before the first flags often get mined by sneaky stay-behind squads who can take out tank after tank after Brits have capped the flags. I've saved a few tanks by guarding the bridge as an engineer, finding mines with the detector and taking them out with the wrench.

Would miss them if they're removed, but I would like to see them beefed up so you can detect mines in a much larger radius, if that's possible?

What would actually be neat is if instead of having instant kill minefields for tanks, have the mine fields pre-populated with mines, so that infantry could clear a path for tanks to avoid choke points.
Title: Re: Finish the italians
Post by: LuckyOne on 21-03-2016, 19:03:24
What would actually be neat is if instead of having instant kill minefields for tanks, have the mine fields pre-populated with mines, so that infantry could clear a path for tanks to avoid choke points.

What I'd like to see a as a comeback is the mine APC from FH1. Now THAT would put the mine back in the mine detector.  ;D

Sure, that thing was arcadish as hell. But it was really fun to actually have the ability to mine a whole path/road/flagzone. Sadly there were no mine detectors in FH1 but the mines were quite visible.

Can we at least get a dedicated miner pickup kit? Pistol only, smoke grenade, wrench and a limit of 5-6 mines. Would be much more viable to use for mining than the current engineer kit.