Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Tactics & Tutorials => Topic started by: 9.Pz-Div. Günther on 23-01-2010, 06:01:21
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Now we all love the faust as much as we hate it. But I hate it a little more in FH2. It's effectiveness disappoints me and I wonder if the penetration is realistic. Many times I hit a Sherman in the side with the Panzerfaust but it would damage it only up to 90%, or around the point the tank starts burning. Either with, with BF2's crappy damage system, the tank is still fully capable of doing everything even if it'd be destroyed until 95%. This is terribly wrong. So you lost your only faust, are open on the field, still stunned that it didn't kill the tank, and the driver just rolls his turret around and shoots you in the face. I used to think the faust was like.. almost invincible against light-medium armour! And my targets weren't moving.
Also.. can someone please explain to me which of the three holes I need to use to aim with. What do they represent and how can I estimate the distance anyway? With its incredibly short range you want to be really sure you hit it.
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If uyou hit Shermans to the sides when they have tanktracks attached, they shouldn't blow up, as the added tracks are extra armour. To kill those Shermans with one shot, you have to shoot them in the back.
About which three holes are you talking? I have only one hole to look through and it looks like two triangles upright with their points towards each other. Aiming differs by distance, so there isn't one thing you should remember and then do that everytime.
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"Three holes" are in PIAT, not Panzerfaust, where they are the range to target in yards - 50, 100 or 150 as indicated on the sight itself.
Panzerfaust sight - the horizontal line - seems to be zeroed in at about half the range (15 m). So if you have managed to crawl to point-blank range and then aim the sights above the target "just in case", you will overshoot.
As to how to estimate distance.... trial & error and practice will teach you that. Do look through the sights whenever your SL's "command flare" is in sight, since you get the range information with it ;)
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Faust is a one hit kill on sides and rear of any allied tank cept the Churchill, and the Achilles, and the Achilles is only due to the current bug where it has about 3000 hit points, when it should only have around 500.... If you hit the track/sandbag armour, it functions the same as the schurzen on the Panzer 4. Now, if you hit an unprotected sherman, and it still didn't die, then that's probably more due to server lag then the faust not actually killing.
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The sandbags/appliqué armor does not work like schurzen. Schurzen nullifies HEAT weapons, the Sandbags/tank tracks just make the armor thicker, making the round do slightly less damage (enough to not 1 hit kill).
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Take note that firing at the frontal mantlet or turret armor with the panzerfaust will NOT kill the sherman, no mather what version
I did this tens of times, and i always recieved a 75MM HE Shell as answer
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The front armour of the Sherman is just thick enough to cause it to not die instantly from panzerfaust warheads. The sandbags I think are totally invulnerable. The applique armour on the sides as well as the tank track armour counts as the same thickness as the frontal armour.
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The sandbags/appliqué armor does not work like schurzen. Schurzen nullifies HEAT weapons, the Sandbags/tank tracks just make the armor thicker, making the round do slightly less damage (enough to not 1 hit kill).
That's real life, I'm refering to ingame, they do the same thing.
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He's right though. Unprotected shermans don't (always) die from Fausts punched to their sides. I can't really tell why, if it is not for a hitbox error.
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Well a sherman has 65MM frontal armor
A panther has 40MM rear armor
Fire a panzerfaust at the Panther, it will SURVIVE
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The sandbags/appliqué armor does not work like schurzen. Schurzen nullifies HEAT weapons, the Sandbags/tank tracks just make the armor thicker, making the round do slightly less damage (enough to not 1 hit kill).
That's real life, I'm refering to ingame, they do the same thing.
The one or two sandbags might work like that ingame, but the appliqué armor and tank tracks definitely DO NOT nullify HEAT rounds entirely ingame.
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Well a sherman has 65MM frontal armor
A panther has 40MM rear armor
Fire a panzerfaust at the Panther, it will SURVIVE
Panther's rear armor is also heavily sloped, so it might be on par with the Sherman's front armor.
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Well a sherman has 65MM frontal armor
A panther has 40MM rear armor
Fire a panzerfaust at the Panther, it will SURVIVE
Also, the Panther, IIRC, has been beefed up by the devs so that it has a tougher feel, thus why the sherman doesn't kill it with side or rear shots in one shit.
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Uhm, today I was playing Lüttich and I took down a Panther coming to Farm straight from the spawn. With one shot, sitting in regular M4A1. ???
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Shot trap of the Panther.
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Maybe he was allready damaged and you managed to hit the side, allthough it was facing you.
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I guess I might have hit the sandbags or tracks then. Now that I think of it, it does make sense the energy would be lost there since it would lose all its energy on that initial impact. Aiming for the tracks works though?
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It really kills all the fun when you hit a sherman with panzerbüchse 54 at the side armor, and it doesnt explode, just because there is a 2 meter piece of track hanging there. Have the tracks their own hitbox or is really the entire side armor that heavy?
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in terms of AT the germans already have it so easy, cut the sherman tanker a break!
While stated otherwise, tracks/sandbags actually did have a effect panzerfausts 30.
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with the new version i got a big problem with halftracks vs panzerfaust.
it happens now a lot of times that i wont one-shot kill an allied-apc with it,wich is totaly stupid.
zooka/schreck and piat still work fine.
and btw:
new hitpoints of the panther wich makes it one-shot-kill into the side make the panter
almost useless,cause of the fact that the engine isnt noticing the angle of the shot.
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Haha it makes it just as useless as the Sherman. Panther is better in terms of firepower, but its a big ass chunk of tank, and you can spot it from like everywhere. Cromwells and Shermans dont really have to fear it anymore.
Anyhow .. I still want faster projectile speeds. Tanker are still able to drive away if you fire zook or shreck rockets and the see it :<
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with the new version i got a big problem with halftracks vs panzerfaust.
it happens now a lot of times that i wont one-shot kill an allied-apc with it,wich is totaly stupid.
zooka/schreck and piat still work fine.
and btw:
new hitpoints of the panther wich makes it one-shot-kill into the side make the panter
almost useless,cause of the fact that the engine isnt noticing the angle of the shot.
Actually, HEAT rounds dint do much effect on Light armoured vehicle's, because it is open topped. Exept if you hitted the engine.
It wassent uncommon for Marder/nashorn crews to notice that they have been hit by a PIAT after a battle.
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A panzerfaust can penetrate 200m (7 3/4 inches) at a 90 degree angle and could take out a tiger tank at 90 degrees in the side and it will disable it so I guess that would be more of developer error or a bug.
P.S. I think they should make it the Panzerfaust 60 (60 meter range) 30 is way to short
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Panzerfaust 60 was not in production at the time of the Normandy campaign.
Besides which, it is very difficult to change the tank armour system, because you can change one small thing, but then you have to test it under all eventuallities to see if it remains correct and balanced.
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Bingo EU. The Panzerfaust ingame is the 30, the 60 will be introduced when maps that are post normandy come around. Also, yes, the Pzfaust had 200mm penetration. Problem here lies that FH2 isn't all about realism, there are gameplay changes. One is that in order to keep the faust and schreck from being too overpowered, it doesn't insta-kill tigers or such, and it takes 2 shots to take out a sherman to the front. A small sacrifice in the name of gameplay.
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Actually, HEAT rounds dint do much effect on Light armoured vehicle's, because it is open topped. Exept if you hitted the engine. It wassent uncommon for Marder/nashorn crews to notice that they have been hit by a PIAT after a battle.
I like that detail. Apparently AT rounds often simply went right through the thin armor of the halftrack and came out the other end. I am curious by your open topped comment though, how do you figure that? Is it because the blast gets diffused by the open top and doesn't have the required effect?
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Actually, HEAT rounds dint do much effect on Light armoured vehicle's, because it is open topped. Exept if you hitted the engine. It wassent uncommon for Marder/nashorn crews to notice that they have been hit by a PIAT after a battle.
I like that detail. Apparently AT rounds often simply went right through the thin armor of the halftrack and came out the other end. I am curious by your open topped comment though, how do you figure that? Is it because the blast gets diffused by the open top and doesn't have the required effect?
i read the same thing about Russian SPG like the SU-76
the crew often survived hits by panzerfauts since the pressure that would kill them just fizzle out due to open top.
however i dont think it is possible to recreate this effect ingame
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Actually, HEAT rounds dint do much effect on Light armoured vehicle's, because it is open topped. Exept if you hitted the engine. It wassent uncommon for Marder/nashorn crews to notice that they have been hit by a PIAT after a battle.
I like that detail. Apparently AT rounds often simply went right through the thin armor of the halftrack and came out the other end. I am curious by your open topped comment though, how do you figure that? Is it because the blast gets diffused by the open top and doesn't have the required effect?
i read the same thing about Russian SPG like the SU-76
the crew often survived hits by panzerfauts since the pressure that would kill them just fizzle out due to open top.
however i dont think it is possible to recreate this effect ingame
Another example was Japanese tanks, their armor was so thin, that if a sherman fired at them, the round would simply pass trough the front and rear armor, causing little damage themself
This is why HE rounds where used more against japanese tanks.
And it is indeed true about the SU-76. Their are many many reports of Su-76's recieving panzerfaust hits, and not even leaving a scorch mark on a crewmember. Same went to Marder/Nashorn/M10/18/36 crews.
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Actually, HEAT rounds dint do much effect on Light armoured vehicle's, because it is open topped. Exept if you hitted the engine. It wassent uncommon for Marder/nashorn crews to notice that they have been hit by a PIAT after a battle.
I like that detail. Apparently AT rounds often simply went right through the thin armor of the halftrack and came out the other end. I am curious by your open topped comment though, how do you figure that? Is it because the blast gets diffused by the open top and doesn't have the required effect?
i read the same thing about Russian SPG like the SU-76
the crew often survived hits by panzerfauts since the pressure that would kill them just fizzle out due to open top.
however i dont think it is possible to recreate this effect ingame
You could code it the way you coded the Schürzen on the Stug and P4H.
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Actually, HEAT rounds dint do much effect on Light armoured vehicle's, because it is open topped. Exept if you hitted the engine. It wassent uncommon for Marder/nashorn crews to notice that they have been hit by a PIAT after a battle.
I like that detail. Apparently AT rounds often simply went right through the thin armor of the halftrack and came out the other end. I am curious by your open topped comment though, how do you figure that? Is it because the blast gets diffused by the open top and doesn't have the required effect?
i read the same thing about Russian SPG like the SU-76
the crew often survived hits by panzerfauts since the pressure that would kill them just fizzle out due to open top.
however i dont think it is possible to recreate this effect ingame
You could code it the way you coded the Schürzen on the Stug and P4H.
This is a good idea
Driver area=Vurnable
Open topped structure: Invurnable
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Main problem is that it WOULD kill the guy who was standing close, when the plasma burned through his body. But the rest of the crew would be fine. :P
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Actually, HEAT rounds dint do much effect on Light armoured vehicle's, because it is open topped. Exept if you hitted the engine. It wassent uncommon for Marder/nashorn crews to notice that they have been hit by a PIAT after a battle.
I like that detail. Apparently AT rounds often simply went right through the thin armor of the halftrack and came out the other end. I am curious by your open topped comment though, how do you figure that? Is it because the blast gets diffused by the open top and doesn't have the required effect?
i read the same thing about Russian SPG like the SU-76
the crew often survived hits by panzerfauts since the pressure that would kill them just fizzle out due to open top.
however i dont think it is possible to recreate this effect ingame
You could code it the way you coded the Schürzen on the Stug and P4H.
This is a good idea
Driver area=Vurnable
Open topped structure: Invurnable
i think the marder III is coded this way.
hitting the superstructure with AP round (boys rifle) wont do anything.
same with trucks when you hit anything besides the engine compartment with AP rounds from tanks the simply pass through.
not sure about HEAT ammo vs vehicles like that.
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so if you shot a truck in the back or wher the guy's in the back sit it won't get damage ?
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not quite sure
either the faust will fly "through" doing minimal damage or hit a person inside and kill it/them
again i m not really sure about HEAT ammo vs soft skinned vehicles
however if you would use a tank gun with normal AP ammo you wont do much damage in the back area.
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Realistic coded ammo effects would also make the choice of ammo in combat more difficult and exciting... right now I mostly use AP (or their improved counterparts)... against infantry I use MG... HE only if the target is behind cover... but thats rare...
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I must say I never really noticed any missed shots on lightly armored vehicles.
So far any Panzerfaust, Bazooka, Panzershreck or AP round obliterated any truck, wespe. Irregardless of where I hit them to my knowledge - at least, I never intentionally aimed for solid parts but dont remember being dissapointed stuff did not blow up with one shot.
hmm.
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I must say I never really noticed any missed shots on lightly armored vehicles.
So far any Panzerfaust, Bazooka, Panzershreck or AP round obliterated any truck, wespe. Irregardless of where I hit them to my knowledge - at least, I never intentionally aimed for solid parts but dont remember being dissapointed stuff did not blow up with one shot.
hmm.
Fire at a truck its trunk
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If you fire at the bed of the truck, it will not explode.
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I must say I never really noticed any missed shots on lightly armored vehicles.
So far any Panzerfaust, Bazooka, Panzershreck or AP round obliterated any truck, wespe. Irregardless of where I hit them to my knowledge - at least, I never intentionally aimed for solid parts but dont remember being dissapointed stuff did not blow up with one shot.
hmm.
Than you have a good natural aim:P. Ive definitly have had a few of these failures and they suck lol. But the more rewarding it is to actually aim for the right part and kill.
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Well it seemed that reading about it caused it :-\ . Had a few trucks yesterday that indeed withstood Flak88 hits without blowing up. Gngngngngngng!!! ;D
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Well it seemed that reading about it caused it :-\ . Had a few trucks yesterday that indeed withstood Flak88 hits without blowing up. Gngngngngngng!!! ;D
Glad we could be of service :)
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You will find below a Tuto i made for FHT when 2.2 came out.
Enjoy it ;)
<center><table width="600"><td><center></center><div align="left"><font size=2>
<center>(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jerry33/Screenshot/Faust2.png)</center>
In this file i will introduce to you the basic utilization of the German anti tanks weapons: the Panzerfaust and the Panzerschreck.
The aim of this file is to assimilate all the specialities of these weapons and to master theirs utilization and to know the weakest spots of the enemy vehicles.
<center><font size=4>
Weapons characteristics
</font></center>
<font size=3>The Panzerfaust</font>
The panzerfaust is a portable anti tank weapon with awesome power.
The characteristics of this weapon are :
Fire range = 30 m maximum
Number of munitions = 1
Penetration power = Very high
Fire accuracy = Average
Fire position = Crouch or lie for a better accuracy
Aim area (green area on the picture)=
<center>
(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jerry33/Screenshot/Faust.JPG)
</center>
The Panzerfaust is most used AT weapon that we have at our disposal in the game. It optimal use is to hide in the bush near a road and to wait for enemy vehicles. The range of fire is between 0 to 30m, range over the which none damage are expected. It's up to you to deem this range ingame, to crouch (to lie if possible) and to wait some second to stabilize the aiming of the weapon. Be careful to the explosion of the projectile and of the target during a direct hit because it could kill you too...
The Panzerfaust can be found in the class "Panzer Abwehr Soldat" in the most part of Normandy maps.
Note: It is almost impossible to overshoot with the panzerfaust. You should always aim a bit higher than expected when firing the panzerfaust.
<font size=3>The Panzerschreck</font>
The panzerschreck is a portable anti tank weapon which has awesome power.
The characteristics of this weapon are :
Fire range = 150 m maximum
Number of munitions = 3
Penetration power = High
Fire accuracy = High
Fire position = Crouch or lie for a better accuracy
Aim area (green area on the picture)=
<center>
(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jerry33/Screenshot/Schreck.JPG)
</center>
The Panzerschreck is the second used AT weapon that we have at our disposal in the game. It optimal use is to hide in the bush near a road and to wait for enemy vehicles. The range of fire is between 0 to 150m, range over the which none damage are expected. It's up to you to deem this range ingame, to crouch (to lie if possible) and to wait some second to stabilize the aiming of the weapon. Be careful of the explosion of the projectile and of the target during a direct hit because it could kill you too...
The Panzerschreck can be found in kits located in maps (except for the map "Operation Luttich" where it's in the class "Anti Tank").
Note: The rocket doesn't fire instantly when you press the trigger. It takes a split second for the rocket to ignite.
To sum up, you have to remember that the Panzerfaust is more powerful than the Panzerschreck but the Panzerschreck allows fire at longer range and are more accurate.
<center><font size=4>
Enemy vehicles characteristics
</font></center>
The aim of the of these two weapons are to destroy an enemy vehicle in one shot. This to avoid a fire fight with this vehicle. It's fundamental to assure yourself to do a successful hit in one shot by aiming the weakest spots of the vehicles.
The characteristics of the enemy vehicles are :
<font size=3>
1 shot 1 kill every time :</font>
At every times, these two weapons can destroy these vehicles whatever the angle of attack (in front too) :
<center>
Willys MB-2
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/Willys%20MB-2/small.gif)
M8 Light Armored Car
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/M8%20Light%20Armored%20Car/small.gif)
M5A1 Light Tank
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/M5A1%20Light%20Tank/small.gif)
Cromwell IV
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/Cromwell%20IV/small.gif)
M10 Tank Destroyer
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/M10%20Tank%20Destroyer/small.gif)
M10 Achilles IIC
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/M10%20Achilles%20IIC/small.gif)
</center>
<font size=3>
1 shot 1 kill except in front and on specifics spots :</font>
The following vehicles can be destroyed in one shot if you NEVER fire in their fronts (need more than 2 hits on their fronts) but also by avoiding to hit theirs overamored spots (red areas on the pictures).
<center>
M4A1 Medium Tank, Sherman II Late, Sherman V & Sherman VC "Firefly"
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/M4A1%20Medium%20Tank/small.gif)
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/Sherman%20II%20Late/small.gif)
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/Sherman%20V/small.gif)
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/Sherman%20VC%20Firefly/small.gif)
</center>
Overarmored spots to AVOID at all cost (red area) because it needs 2 hits to blow up the vehicles on these spots :
<center>
(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jerry33/Screenshot/Sherman.JPG)
(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jerry33/Screenshot/Sherman2.JPG)
</center>
<font size=3>
The 1 shot 1 kill except on specifics spots :</font>
The following vehicles can be destroyed in one shot if you NEVER fire their overarmored spots (red areas on the pictures). The munitions we are using are shaped charge so an empty area behind the impact spots will cancel all the destruction effect.
<center>
M3A1 Halftrack & Bedford OY
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/M3A1%20Halftrack/small.gif)
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/Bedford%20OY/small.gif)
</center>
Overarmored spots to AVOID at all cost (red area) because the shaped charge effect will be cancel :
<center>
(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jerry33/Screenshot/Halftrack.JPG)
(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jerry33/Screenshot/Truck.JPG)
</center>
<font size=3>
The 2 shots 1 kill except in front and on specifics spots :</font>
The following vehicles need two shots to be destroyed all over their armor except in front and on specifics spots.
<center>
M4A1(76)W Medium Tank
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/M4A1(76)W%20Medium%20Tank/small.gif)
</center>
This tank needs at least 2 hits all over his armour except in front where more than 2 shots are needed. You should attack this tank in group or stay discreet during your first shot to be able to shoot again without being located.
<center>
(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jerry33/Screenshot/Sherman76.JPG)
Churchill Mk IV
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/imagesfh2/vehicles/Churchill%20Mk%20IV/small.gif)
</center>
This tank needs at least 2 hits all over his armour except in front and on his overarmored spots (red area) where more than 2 shots are needed. You should attack this tank in group or stay discreet during your first shot to be able to shoot again without being located.
<center>
(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jerry33/Screenshot/Churchill.JPG)
</center>
Thank you for reading this file and to remember it's contents to be able to assure a fast and efficient destruction of the enemy vehicles !!!
File made and translated by 125[21P]+++|Hans Werner
Spelling corrected by PZP[21P]+++|Rataxes
</font>
</tr></table></center>
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It's a nice read, this manual, but could you please edit out the html code? TIA!
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This is nice but will be somewhat obsolete soon.