La Famille - A Forgotten Hope 2 Update

[Eat Uranium]

Coming at 1900 UTC.

La Famille

http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de

[Matthew_Baker]

Get used to seeing these rifles, they're going to be all over the French spawn menu

[Baked_Potato]

Didn't the FRench have a number of small semi automatic weapons that they used to win WWI such as:

RSC 1917
Meunier rifle A6
MAS mle. 1940

[Matthew_Baker]

Didn't the FRench have a number of small semi automatic weapons that they used to win WWI such as:

RSC 1917
Meunier rifle A6
MAS mle. 1940

I’m no expert in French WW1 small arms, but afaik the RSC 1917 was the only semi auto rifle that saw any real use towards the end of the war. The Meuniers had their own proprietary ammo, and the RSC was still using the rimmed Lebel cartridge which the French were trying to move away from. The RSC also had some issues with parts breaking since it was designed quickly and needed some further refinements before being mass produced and mass issued to an entire army. That’s why you don’t really see any of those semi auto rifles in use during 1940.

The French went with what they had and what they knew they could produce effectively and efficiently. (Berthiers) and then supplemented that with older rifles that they had a lot of (Lebels) when necessary. Then you see things like the Mas 36 issued out to certain units as they became available, tho they weren’t being produced in enough numbers to equip an entire army by that time yet.

[Baked_Potato]

Yeah that's true.  I remeber reading by 1918 they had entire regiments stocked with them....  From what i remeber it had all but replaced the Lebel.    RSC 1917.  The other one I don't know much about and I don't think the mas 40 was ever used, but I think it would be plyable to have the first 2 as kits on maps to pick up.

[Ts4EVER]

No, the Meuniers was not used in WW2 because the ammo was not made after WW1. The RSC17 might have been used by snipers sometimes, but there is conflicting info out there. Some say they were actually reverted back to bolt action.

[Baked_Potato]

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=913

Says there that people still used them and worked 'em back to semi auto.


I mentioned the Meniurs A6 becasue the French still had them and the Germans raided them all in Frances capitulation.  Either way they're all gone.  Where did they go?  Perhaps used in battle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_weapons_of_France

If you look at the pictures as a long rifle the RSC 1917/18 was better than the MAS 36.  IDK why anyone would want to go into battle with that except for new round I suppose.  They had produced 84,000 of them in France by November 1918.

[Matthew_Baker]

IDK why anyone would want to go into battle with that except for new round I suppose.  They had produced 84,000 of them in France by November 1918.

Are you talking about wanting to use them in-game, or in-real life?

In real life, from the same source, it mentions that;

In practice, the Modele 1917 proved a long, awkward rifle to wield and was not favored by its users. Its mechanical action also proved unreliable when pressed into the battlefield environment full of debris, dirt, dust, and mud. Production quality was also not up to par for the discerning, experienced soldier whose life depending on a faultless weapon." So that's part of the reasoning behind them being so rare on the battlefield.

But regarding in-game, Seth Soldier (our resident French modeler) has a done a lot of research I think has a lists of units that used the RSC in 1940. Needless to say, if we ever make a map about those units, I'd imagine that it'd get included. But those units didn't see many battles outside of small or rare engagements afaik.

[Baked_Potato]

Okay i'd really look forward to using it.   And you know how WWI was.  It was a different kind of war.  It was introduced late war in the head of battle.  Soldiers were in full swing.  Trench war fare was muddy and artillery was raining down every where.  WWII was not like this.  SO introducing any kind of new system would be awkward from a solders perspective.  It also says in that same article that they had ironed out the problems by the 1920's Moroccan rif war.  If anything they would make good special units to find on maps as secret kits to make the maps more interesting.  I haven't done the research so...  But it alludes that a NCO or sharp shooter might have one.

Looks like a carbine version. 

Notice how easy the recoil is.

https://youtu.be/sExBiD7sBw0

[Baked_Potato]

Okay i'd really look forward to using it.   And you know how WWI was.  It was a different kind of war.  It was introduced late war in the head of battle.  Soldiers were in full swing.  Trench war fare was muddy and artillery was raining down every where.  WWII was not like this.  SO introducing any kind of new system would be awkward from a solders perspective.  It also says in that same article that they had ironed out the problems by the 1920's Moroccan rif war.  If anything they would make good special units to find on maps as secret kits to make the maps more interesting.  I haven't done the research so...  But it alludes that a NCO or sharp shooter might have one.

Looks like a carbine version. 

Notice how easy the recoil is.

https://youtu.be/sExBiD7sBw0

https://youtu.be/sExBiD7sBw0
AS far as I can tell WWII was a surprise to the French.  They had reservists stationed at the Maginot Line which is where the RSC's would have been.  It said some where that they were plugged so the colonial troops wouldn't be able to revolt.  I don't know about the ones in France.  But when The Germans attacked it came at a surprise and they rushed everybody North and confusion ensued to the onslaught of JU 87 dive bomber attacks.

It makes perfect sense to me that some people may have picked up some RSC's for there auto loading abilitys.

This is France we are talking about, not England or Germany.  They wouldn't have wrote down every single little detail of who got what and where it went.

[Ts4EVER]

We will add it if we make a map with a unit that used them. But right now, that is not planned.

[CptdeS35]

AS far as I can tell WWII was a surprise to the French.

You miss the point, France was late for WWII due to political crisis and political/military inertia. also focused on conscription of the citizen with a simple doctrine (defence mostly)
The 1929 economic crisis also hit France later than the rest of the world (partly due to the empire).
Also most of the french were against a war, so voting a budget for weapons was not well seen. A lot of "good projects" were thus delayed

[Baked_Potato]

What?  Did they want fascism?  The whole planet got attacked by these people.   It wasn't just Europe.  Fascism firmly planted it's roots in AMerica in 1930's with New DEal and prohibition,  THey actually went around and killed people they didn't like.   This happened everywhere.   HOw could these people just sit around while the fascist made there moves across the globe individually isolating people out taking over and killing freedom?  ie. boot leggers, people with Gold, indians.  They're determined to turn America into a wasteland.

[Matthew_Baker]

uh... wut? notwithstanding the stretch of an idea that you presented; jumping the topic from RSC's to Fascism in North America is a bit beyond the scope of this announcement thread

maybe let's stick to Berthiers.

For everything else, I'd suggest reading a bit more about French military doctrine in the inter-war years.

[Baked_Potato]

uh... wut? notwithstanding the stretch of an idea that you presented; jumping the topic from RSC's to Fascism in North America is a bit beyond the scope of this announcement thread

maybe let's stick to Berthiers.

For everything else, I'd suggest reading a bit more about French military doctrine in the inter-war years.

We we're on the subject...  It wasn't a jump.  More of a gradual shift.

 I bring it up because nobody talks about this.  America sucks.  It is almost impossible to get any where inside an American city with out being a complete fag,  They're all ruled with fists.  YOu can't argue with cops or you get thrown in jail.  Judges don't listen to normal people unless you have blonde hair or titties.  Clearly you don't have to work in AMerica becasue you don't knoiw what I am talking about.  THe citys have unlimited power of scrutiny over the workers.  Stupivisors and government inspectors make stuff up at a whim to exercise will against the worker.  It  is not about getting the job down to these people.  They're always making stuff  up  so that they feel like they have control still.  THat's all they do.

I am only responding to this:

AS far as I can tell WWII was a surprise to the French.

You miss the point, France was late for WWII due to political crisis and political/military inertia. also focused on conscription of the citizen with a simple doctrine (defence mostly)
The 1929 economic crisis also hit France later than the rest of the world (partly due to the empire).
Also most of the french were against a war, so voting a budget for weapons was not well seen. A lot of "good projects" were thus delayed

The fascists did a lot of damage in the 1930's.  And I wanted to know how these people can just sit idle while the world gets raped.  Before the 1930's things were different.  The fascists get more and more authority every year.  In the 1930's they went around and stole everybody Gold and killed a lot of people.  SO they could make weapons, get factory's going and start a war.  Seriously dose anybody accually like working in factory's?  The Great depression happened for a reason and these people try force things to happen that shouldn't be happening.


Since you  bring it up.  What's the deal with this new cartridge that required a complete rearming and why was it so special?