Author Topic: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD  (Read 1905 times)

Offline Jimi Hendrix

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INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« on: 19-06-2014, 03:06:20 »
INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD

 My Crete idea is based on a night counter attack on the maleme airfield conducted by The Commonwealth troops during the night of 21–22 May.

http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Cret-c5-1.html



16 - This would take more work



 The 32 player version encompasses the locations, but it includes Suda Bay which is to far east as the 20th battalion staging area was west of Chania.

http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/WH2Cret-fig-WH2CretP023a.html

 So, perhaps a smaller version of the 32 layer would suffice.


32



- remove suda bay
- add gray flag between chania & maleme called Pirgos


Quote
And as the battalion got closer to Pirgos and the aerodrome the opposition became denser and the volume of machine-gun fire greater.

We went on meeting resistance in depth—in ditches, behind hedges, in the top and bottom stories of village buildings, fields and gardens on road beside drome.

 The amount of MG fire was never equalled. Fortunately a lot of it was high and the tracer bullets enabled us to pick our way up and throw in grenades. We had heavy casualties but the Germans had much heavier.

- Maybe leave monestary as a flanking flag for any team that controls it

- The Airfield should be cappable & pirgos should be gray

 So in this senario, it would be the 1st FH2 layer at night near water which should make the moon even brighter.


Thoughts?


 8)



Offline GeoPat

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #1 on: 19-06-2014, 03:06:39 »
I like this idea.  The Crete smalls rarely get played because they cap out too easily.  In general, cap out maps need some push code to make it more challenging, like Bastogne 32, or just always have some kind of uncappable mains.

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #2 on: 19-06-2014, 04:06:15 »
I like the idea of making the 32 layer a night map that depicts a real counter attack. Problem is, the map is scaled so much there's not much interesting fighting between Chania and Maleme. I agree with GeoPat that cap-out maps should have a push code so people don't just flank to the German spawn and leave them with nothing.

An unrealistic approach, but one that would re-scale the map to fit the counter attack;
Rename Suda Bay--> Chania and make that the British main. 
Rename Chania--> Pirgos and keep the Monastary flag as it is. Make them both neutral.
Keep German main at Maleme.
Make it so both of the mains are only capturable if the other team has both the center flags. i.e. the Germans need both Pirgos and Monastary to attack Chania, and the British need both Pirgos and Monastary to attack Maleme.
I'd give the Brits 1 Vickers Light Tank and the Germans the movable pak36's to counter it. Also Universal carrier and captured univerals carriers for both sides.
Make the map a night map with a full moon? (Mersa Matruh style?) Kit loadouts, boundaries and tickets the same?

As I understand it the Germans were going to move out to Chania after capturing Maleme on the 21st, but that night the British counterattacked right into them with tanks to try and recapture the airfield.

Idk, my 2 cents. Imo it would be a map fit for 32 players or a bit larger.

I love these ideas tho and I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this.  :D 

EDIT: This might help
« Last Edit: 19-06-2014, 04:06:45 by Matthew_Baker »

Offline GeoPat

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #3 on: 19-06-2014, 06:06:19 »
If you want an alternate map, there is no reason to start with the stock combat zones and flag locations.  Start with this:

Draw the map you want.  I will make a rough GPO for you with night turned on. 

It will take a little more time, when I have it, to place all the assets in the right locations.  We will also have to make an alternative ground hemi so the players and vehicles don't glow in the night.  Remember it doesn't have to be for 32 players.  We can make make a full size map that just uses the 32p slot.

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #4 on: 19-06-2014, 06:06:47 »
Idk I think I like the 32 layout's size for the scale of this counter-attack. Making it playable for 64 people would take a whole new map design imo.
Crete is a pretty unique map where there are very clear capture points (the flags we have now) and everything in between is just traveling space. It's not too much fun to fight in, it's just forrest with not much cover. The map designer had a clear idea for where he wanted the flags to be and he placed his statics there. So I think when it comes to auditing this map, the flags need to be in the same places; they can be renamed and re-aligned in terms of which flag is next in line to be capped, but putting a flag in like C6 would be kinda arbitrary and not fun to fight over.

That's not to say that there's not a good way of representing this counterattack with 64 players. I just can't think of one right now.

Offline Jimi Hendrix

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #5 on: 19-06-2014, 08:06:44 »
 Jan mentioned that if something were submitted, they would test it internally.

 Im not sure if the devs want the 64 changed, but 32 layer may be more acceptable.

 I know the 16 layer had a new flag added "Olives", , but I have never seen any layers where the main flag locations were changed, only added new flags.

 One last thought. The 2/7 battalion was to start from Georgeoupolis and make its way through Suda Bay to the staging area near Chania, so in reality the Suda Bay flag could stay the same as well as the other flags (32 layer) add a push and ajust the current flags or even add another.......

 ;)



Offline GeoPat

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #6 on: 19-06-2014, 08:06:46 »
A simple option is to put an Allied main on the East side H7 or G7, then turn the lights out.  They'll need lots of vehicles.  You could move the Axis main to A7 or A8, or let them paradrop at night(which might be more successful), or make it a cap out.  5 flag, full size cap-outs aren't too bad.

64p, 32p, and 16p are just suggestions as far as multiplayer goes.  Really its 3 variations of the same map.  We can leave the 64 as is but make a 32 that's playable by 64+ people

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #7 on: 19-06-2014, 11:06:41 »
...or let them paradrop at night(which might be more successful)
But not historical accurate!

I like Matthew's suggestion, and for now we need smaller layers for servers like WaW, so forget about using 16 and 32 layers for 64+.

Offline Jimi Hendrix

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #8 on: 19-06-2014, 16:06:46 »
 Geo, if you are really interested in developing this, there seems to be a clear path of public release.

- Historical accuracy - which i will provide any question or info you need
- Public discussion on reasonable layout suggestions
- 32 or 16 player layer development
- Some public testing on say WAW Thursdays. Im sure they would love to help

- Then we submit it to Jan so they can really test it & see if its good to add to the next release

 I dont have the talent you have to mod BF2, although i taught myself in bf42. BF2 is allot more difficult & i just dont have the time to learn, but i know research & i can present you with some well thought out ideas with links & proof to back it up.

 I think modding existing layers is a fast way to getting new material to the public since a brand new map takes months if not years.

 ;)



Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #9 on: 19-06-2014, 16:06:10 »
If you send me the .txt file of the layer per pm, I will have a look at it.

Crete 32 response

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #10 on: 19-06-2014, 16:06:19 »
Yeah, don't send the stuff to Jan, send it to me. No guarantees though.

edit: also, I really don't care about historical accuracy in 32p layers, especially on a map as scaled as Crete.
« Last Edit: 19-06-2014, 17:06:43 by Ts4EVER »

Offline GeoPat

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #11 on: 19-06-2014, 18:06:23 »
Quote
Geo, if you are really interested in developing this
I'm going to help YOU develop it.  You don't need any modding skills and we don't need to make a new map.  All we need to do is edit a text file in notepad.  I will send you a sample of what we are talking about and when I have time, I will write a mini-tutorial on mapping for people who don't like BF2editor.

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #12 on: 19-06-2014, 19:06:37 »
A simple option is to put an Allied main on the East side H7 or G7, then turn the lights out.  They'll need lots of vehicles.  You could move the Axis main to A7 or A8, or let them paradrop at night(which might be more successful), or make it a cap out.  5 flag, full size cap-outs aren't too bad.
I see what you're saying; what you outlined above, seems more or less a layout to get another 64 sized map that can be played on a full server. I like the idea but for now I think it might be a bit too ambitious. Since it's just a few people looking to add some historical context to an existing map, I think we should just start by auditing some smaller layers and adding smaller layers to maps that don't have them.

Quote
I think modding existing layers is a fast way to getting new material to the public since a brand new map takes months if not years.

I second this idea; let us, the community, come up with some smaller layers we might like to see in the game and hand them off to the devs to be approved and implemented (if they have time) but let's do the brunt work of auditing maps for them so they can spend their time working on things like Dukla Pass ;)
if all goes well then everybody wins; the mod gets some added variety and the community gets insight into development and practice for mappers out there. Some good things can come of this if we start small and work our way up to bigger things.

I say, since Jimi already tossed around the idea of a Maleme counterattack, we use that as our starting point: From what I read, the counter attack was ill timed and relatively small compared to other fighting on crete. So imo, a 32 sized map works perfectly for it.

So lets start with Crete 32 as a 'proof of concept.'

Objective
Crete 32 is already an existing map that I'd like to have added variety and historical context. The layout is pretty good, and plays well. Imo it's a matter of renaming the flags and tweaking the attack order to get it to where it resembles the counterattack that Jimi laid out.

Layout
I posted mine above, Geo posted his ideas, and Jimi gave a few. Everyone should keep posting their layout suggestions tho so we can see what everyone's ideas are. I'd suggest doing what I did and take a screenshot of the minimap in game and then draw over it in PS or MS Paint with your new idea and some text. I do that because personally it's easier for me to see what the suggestions are visually.

Implementation
That's where Geo comes in ;)

I will send you a sample of what we are talking about and when I have time, I will write a mini-tutorial on mapping for people who don't like BF2editor.


PLEASE do this if you have time :D that would be a great way to get people into easily modding FH2 and make it easier to post their suggestions about this kind of stuff. Once we implement it, we can make it a custom map available for dl by the community and have test sessions.

Testing
I think the WaW guys would be more than happy to dl a new map layer and test it out on their Thursday nights. (I know I would) And if not we can maybe hold test sessions for people to join in on regular days during European hours (set the server player limit to 40ish to test the 32 layers properly)
or if the devs are up to it, take it and put a custom layer up for beta testing too? I think with all these resources we can thoroughly test a map and tweak it with the feedback we get and eventually have it brought into the mod.
 
sorry for the long posts, I just think it'd be awesome if the community got behind this and could help polish up this mod :)     

Offline GeoPat

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #13 on: 20-06-2014, 03:06:02 »
I haven't written a tutorial yet but here are some rough samples:http://www.mediafire.com/download/3lj1dn9fdeyf44q/CreteNightLevels.zip
Put these GlobalPlayObjects cons in your crete_1941\server.zip\GameModes\gpm_cq  32 and 16 folders, only one in each.  Remember that path you will use it alot later.

Oh, and backup your crete_1941 folder before starting.

I have included what I believe to be Jimi's basic idea that just uses the current 32 level layout.



This is an idea that I talked about just to show you that you are not limited to working with what is already there.  It's not better just a different idea.


The minimaps don't show it but I used Keren's night sky.  The lack of vehicles at the mains is of course not final.

All of this was done by editing those files in notepad.  No modding or using the BF2editor was necessary, though it might be for the final polish.  Have a look at those files in notepad and try to figure out the logic.  Experiment a little.  Then you will be ready when I get around to doing the tutorial.

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: INVASION OF CRETE: NIGHT ASSAULT ON AIRFIELD
« Reply #14 on: 20-06-2014, 05:06:47 »
I have vague ideas as to how to edit the GPO.con files, renaming flags and making new things spawn etc... Idk how you made a new flag without knowing the exact coordinates on the map tho :P

I like the changes; it looks good and I love the Keren sky, but how would you go about changing the 'groundhemi' to make the dynamic objects (players, guns, vehicles etc..) not glow? Also don't you have to change the fog color? In the distance everything is white.