Hurtgen Forest 64

[Toddel]

"If you have a suggestions or want to give us some Feedback about this Map you can Post it here!"

[Yoghurt]

Well... I think its the best map included in the update and maybe the best map of FH 2 overall. The forest is absolutely atmospheric, combined with the new arty sound and shaders it`s an awesome experience to play at this map, most at the 126 player server, when every trench is in use and the player becomes an impression, how the battle in the Hürtgenforest looked like. The battle for Germeter itself is also great, the village has a lot of detail and stuff, and its very fun to defend it as Wehrmacht. But there we are... the balancing. The US need desperately more tickets on this map, I`ve played it 10 times as the army, and I`ve won not a single round. Yesterday, I played as the Germans and we were able to defend Germeter, although we lost KAtzenhardt when the US tickets were on 550. I suggest to delete the 88 or the StuGs or to increase the number of American tickets.
But it is still an absolutely terrific map. 

[Knoffhoff]

Thank you for the praise. The number of tickets was carefully chosen, to give the US enough time to be able to win the map but not so much time to make the map a endless slaughter if the US team is not playing well enough. When playing with 128 players you have to remember that you still play a 64 player map. It has not been designed for so many players and of course the US team will loose more tickets and with that has less time to capture Germeter.
If the attack on Germeter is too hard for Allies I myself still have to find out on a 64 player server. Unfortunately since the release I had very limited time to play and see how this map is working out. If it really is too hard for the US team I will change something. But this is for 64 players. With 128 players you will have to live with playing maps that are not balanced for that number of players until the 128 player code is free to use for every server.

[Yoghurt]

Thank you for the praise. The number of tickets was carefully chosen, to give the US enough time to be able to win the map but not so much time to make the map a endless slaughter if the US team is not playing well enough. When playing with 128 players you have to remember that you still play a 64 player map. It has not been designed for so many players and of course the US team will loose more tickets and with that has less time to capture Germeter.
If the attack on Germeter is too hard for Allies I myself still have to find out on a 64 player server. Unfortunately since the release I had very limited time to play and see how this map is working out. If it really is too hard for the US team I will change something. But this is for 64 players. With 128 players you will have to live with playing maps that are not balanced for that number of players until the 128 player code is free to use for every server.

Well... I played Hurtgen only 1 time with 126 players, the ver ymost time we were 64. The balancing part of my post didn`t belong to my impression of the map with 126 players. So I actually meant, the map extremely hard to win as US also with 64 players. 

[DLFReporter]

It's hard, but in general I have seen quite a few rounds go down with less than 50 tickets for both teams. If you have an even matched game, then the balance makes it really into a tight game for both teams.
The key point to winning this map is good artillery use by the US team.

[AfterDune]

I like the map a lot, it has good ambience and looks very good. Especially with all the new sounds, the shaders and incoming mortars. It really gives a feel of "holy crap!".

I have played quite a few rounds on this one, but the US get beaten by ticket-bleed most of the time - that has been _my_ experience so far. The US mostly get to the flag the Germans can't recapture (forgot the name), but the bleed doesn't stop until all flags are capped. I think that's a bit rough. If the bleed stops at said flag, at least then you get to see who's the better team. Nothing is worse than being defeated by ticket-bleed, even though your team is the stronger one. Perhaps something to add there, is when ticket bleed stops at that flag, you could also make it so the Germans _can_ recapture the flag. But that may just result in a stalemate evolving around that flag, which I can understand could be something you don't want.

Don't get me wrong, I like that it's hard for the US to take all those flags, but ticket bleed that doesn't stop until all flags are capped would not have been my personal choice.

Assets-wise, I think the map is balanced fine.

I also don't like the fact that a large part of the map is off-limits. I know that's part of the level design, but I prefer more freedom of movement. Not worth discussing that further in here though, I think that's covered enough in the "FH2 teamwork" thread .

[Eglaerinion]

We tested it a lot and if the US does not bleed until all flags are taken you get a boring stalemate with the Americans defending Katzenhart and the Germans defending Germeter. The objective is to root out the Germans completely (sort of like Conquest Assault).

[Ts4EVER]

It's the same on Ramelle now. The idea is that the attacking team wither gets all flags, or loses. In return the attackers have material superiority and the defenders spawns are placed behind the flag instead of around it.

[AfterDune]

I'll give it some more time, see if I like it after playing it even more.

[hitm4k3r]

I like the map very much, but atm it is in deed quiet hard to take the last flag for the american team. Although I have to say, that I played on both sides quiet often and we lost or won very randomly, not matter, on wich side I fought. I have a littlebit a problem with the vehicle loadout, on this map. I think the StuG is quiet unbalenced, since it is very hard to destroy it, even with the 88. I fired one shot with the 88 in the front hul of a StuG and got a hit message, but the StuG only burned (the shot didn't bounce off). I don't know, whether this is caused by the new angle system, but IMO a StuG should be down by a succesful shot of an 88. And with this in mind, it is even more difficult for the americans to take Germeter. Maybe it would work to remove the StuG's and add a PZIV H or something else, because at the moment it is more a stalemate situation in the end. Both sides just shoot with the HE shells in the village and the StuG mostly kills the Shermans, same for the PAK. It is onyl a little suggestion, to bring more interest in the battle, maybe it will work.
But everything else on this map is great, especialy the athmosphere in the forest. I hope we will se such a great feeling also on the eastern front maps, maybe with Kathyushas or something else 

[General_Henry]

a suggestion would be to team-lock the APCs, when those APCs fall to German hands things get really nasty...

the map is very well balanced other than this. Well, however, when the static MG34s run out of ammo you seemed to have no way to refill them.

[hyperanthropos]

I think the spawntimes for the Shermans should be higher, since they have two of them while there are still in the forests. Its is quite hard to kill on of them, killing both of them almost never happens.

Even if you kill one of them it is back really quickly which gets quite frustrating.

I think the 88 is pretty useless at it is right now for several reasons.

It has less to now protction at all against infantry, because  you can falnk it so easily from the far right and of course no infantry will stay there, since there are needed in other areas and it is boring as hell. I think the time from being albe to shoot something with it and getting shoot from behind (or even knived) is far to short.
Of course you can load HEs and keep looking to your right for some lone Aliied, but even them its hard to find the because of the darkness and the woods. And of course if you do that you complety losse your role as an Antitank gun, which cant be the solution.

Furthermore if the Allieds capture it they can shoot into Germeter which makes it even harder to defend. A sloution for that would be to teamlog it.

I think it should be placed closer to German spawnpoint so it cant get shoot empty be some random Allied (who think he is cool and a good player by doing somethink everyone can do without any skill whatsoever!)

A soltion could alsoge to close the map in the north so woukld hve to run directly over the field to get to the 88.
Right now the very northern part of the map is only beeing used to "flank" the 88. And the Shermas have still enough space to manouver. (Btw the Shermans can destry the 88 very easy  -Unique style...)
 

[Wladek]

Hello,

Love the game by the way, been enjoying it since way back on number 1. I had to play on regular BF2 whilst waiting of this to download - I have never urged a loading bar on so much in my life.

Anyway, I just thought I would let you know - in case you did not - that the Unit you have as the Yanks on this is the 39th Infantry of the 9th Div. Though the patch is spot on for the jacket, the 39th had another peculiar distinction - the had the initials AAAO stencilled on the side of their helmets. as can be seen in this pic:


Of course if this is too hard or tiresome to do, then I understand completely, but just thought I would send an 'FYI'.

Cheers guys, and keep up the good work.

[Gunnerz]

Why not two hetzers for the krauts?
Stugs are not so good vs infantery compared with hetzers or shermans.

[hyperanthropos]

Because there are even morfragile than Stugs and the germans really need something to fight all those (to many Shermans).  Another thing do the Allies have two m20 at this stage? If so they should be reduced to one, the other Stug can easiely be counterd by those Shermans.
Paks are not problem what so ever, since the Allies have massiv Arty.


And why should Hetzers be better against infantry? Because they have to remote controlled MG? I am not to sure if the Germans have Stug G late which also has the remote controlled MG and a coaxial MG, if not it might be worth a thought to change the Stugs to G late, those are definitly better against infantry with one more MG and possibly skirts.