Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Singleplayer and Coop => Topic started by: Toddel on 03-10-2009, 16:10:34

Title: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Toddel on 03-10-2009, 16:10:34
"If you have a suggestions or want to give us some Feedback about our Singleplayer you can Post it here!"
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Forlorn_Hope on 04-10-2009, 02:10:24
I think the AI is pretty good right now. The only problem is that they seem to throw way too many grenades.. But then again that could be due to their number.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 04-10-2009, 13:10:44
They throw nades if they know you are there, but are out of direct line of fire eg. if you hide in a building after contact, or in a hole or ditch... Alternatively they use rifle-grenades ... they also use these at long range since there is a greater chance of obstraction at that distance. Depending on how I play, they may use ALOT of nades, or none at all

What I do wish, after which I will have very few complains, is for bots to use arty like in FH1... That's what made Fh1 so much fun, using howitzers and field guns, and maybe, even mortar

But yes, I completely agree, bots have undergone a serious face lift since 2.15, and I beleive we have an entire team to thank for that improvement, notably ofcourse, winterHilf and Bizness for anything done prior to retiring

Bots are actually fun in 2.2. Just a tinnie-winnie this and that here and there is all :-) - Will probably get back to that sometime in this thread...

EDIT:
A major request for SPers... Now I know WinterHilf is hard @ work pathmapping and finetuning... Is it too big a request to have updates with Downloadable completed map files as and when they are done?

What I mean is, rather than waiting for the big release of FH2.2X, can we have downloads for maps which are from 2.2 and have by time of uplaoding, recieved functional bots support - This is especially true for:
1/ Operation Goodwood
2/ FHSP maps that recieve completed bot-support
3/ Fixed versionsof maps like Supercharge with AI improvements and CTD solutions
4/ Any Normandy 2.2 map by then coded with bot-support :-D??

plll-lease...
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 07-10-2009, 15:10:04
Quote
Is it too big a request to have updates with Downloadable completed map files as and when they are done?
We should be so lucky... ;)

Maybe winterhilf could tell us what map he's currently working on?

That way we can focus our efforts on finding all the bugs/problems in said map, rather than us swamping the poor guy with requests to fix our 'favourite' maps.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Natty on 07-10-2009, 17:10:19
Communicate with him and tell him this.

It is totally OK from us that he creates his own little "singleplayer betatest team" here if he wants  :) (on maps allready released ofcourse).

Would be great if you could help out, as our betatesters are focusing on the multiplayer and well, everything else in the mod like weapons, physics, bugs, vehicles etc  8)
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 07-10-2009, 18:10:37
Ni-ice.... Just let me get my rig back up and running. And I will be playing... AHEM - Beta-testing Goodwood to my heart's delight :-D
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: winterhilf on 07-10-2009, 19:10:06
A couple of things you could help with here guys, a new mesh for Pointe du Hoc & an ai tweak to the universal carrier.
http://rapidshare.com/files/289927851/fh2.zip

*back up though for online play*

Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 07-10-2009, 22:10:45
Oh joy... Sure, certainly, whatever you say *Crazed look on face with tongue hangng out of corner of mouth*

.. No but seriously, certainly! I used to play test Fh1 maps for the non-starter SP mod for FH1... And won't toot my own trumpy here, but those were solidly done...*sniffs, puffs chest* on account of some premium feedback from moi ofcourse  :-D

Just send em up, boss - We know what to do with em

MAJOR EDIT (EPIC FAIL)
Wow, what the hell did I just do... PDH crashes in mid-load and I tried Invasion of Crete for the Universal Carriers, and that crashed too!

I put the PDH files into server.zip because that was the only folder/ zip that had files anything similar. Once I saw AIpathfinding and gamesmode I dragged from the FH2.zip straight into the root folder containig the files of the same name... WINRAR replaces... I think so that shouldn't have caused duplicates or anything

Now it CTDs on me.. What did I do wrong?
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: winterhilf on 08-10-2009, 10:10:54
There's 2 things, the PdH files go in the map's server.zip.
The objects.ai is placed in the objects_vehicles_server.zip/vehicles/land/gb/universalcarrier & universalcarrier_france/ai folder.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Zoologic on 08-10-2009, 19:10:46
It works great in my rig. The German bots become more aggressive now, pouring down the first two posts in numbers. Previously, they pretty much stuck in the destroyed bunker and getting killed one by one. Dunno about the bots that immediately died after spawning inside farm houses. Haven't checked.

Anyways... kudos for winterhilf! For he this SP fun is possible!
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 09-10-2009, 10:10:46
Quote
...universalcarrier_france/ai folder.

There isn't one. I'll put it in anyway.

Doesn't it use the 'Objects.ai' file from the standard Uni. carrier?

e.g. There's 3 variants of the Willys jeep, but only one 'Objects.ai' file between them.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: winterhilf on 09-10-2009, 10:10:01
Blast, of course you're on a different build.
Need the tweak.con as well for the france variation.
http://rapidshare.com/files/290613672/Universalcarrier_france.zip

Vehicles & aitemplates is an ongoing evolving thing & ideally each vehicle should have its own.
In cases of similar set ups though you can get away with the same one.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 09-10-2009, 16:10:30
I inputed the PDH files... My PC is almost a Pentium III so it runs Fh2 painfully. However, I did note the counter-attacking Germans on the cliffs, and when I spawned at the last 2 German bases, I had no screams of trapped men dying in upper floors - But I never waited long enough to even see them spawn in the houses to see them get  downstairs and out either

Haven't tried the Universal carrier, but yes, its was the Normandy version that CTDed my game the first time, I put a file where it had no exact replica...

BTW, a couple of things - Can you put the guns back in so that I can smite them like in MP?

And can bots use the other MGs besides the first one, as well as the Vierling? Would really, really make a nice difference in gameplay
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 10-10-2009, 14:10:04
My first impression of PDH is WOW!!! Spent virtually the entire round in a huge firefight in the area between the Flak Emplacement and the Destroyed Bunker.

I started on the US side and we proceeded to capture the first two flags with little fuss, but things got rapidly worse. I quickly lost track of how many lives that blasted MG42 at the Bunker took. Between that and the almost non-stop wave of Nazis coming from behind it, it was quite the task to take it. But the victory at the Bunker was short-lived, they quickly pushed us back and the MG42 slaughter resumed.

Switching to the other side, I soon discovered why I couldn't push past the Bunker...the German bots were actually spawning mostly at the Bunker!!!! Probably 2/3 of them!!! The other third were spawning at the Farm and I didn't see one single bot spawn at the rearmost flag!?! WTF! :o

This simply amazes me! I've long accepted that on a lot of maps you simply cannot win, due to the the inability of bots to spawn close to the action (e.g. spawning at an uncap and walking across half the map, rather than spawning at a closer flag). And this includes ALL the mods I've got: POE2, PR, and AIX.

I'm starting to build a wall of text here, so two more things and I'll shutup ;)

1. If you can get the bots on the US side to spawn at the Flak Emplacement more often, it'd balance things out a bit better. They tend to spawn at the uncap.

2. This is a stupid question...but what map is the Uni. Carrier France on? The only Normandy maps I've got are PDH, Goodwood, and Luttich. No UC that I could see.

And speaking of which, the UC in the Africa maps is working properly now.....

I should also mention I was playing PDH with 31 bots (15/16) on max difficulty.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Natty on 10-10-2009, 14:10:48
Cannonfodder have you ever played PHL in coop mode with 64 bots on max difficult? I tried it and it is totally impossible to win, getting the last two flags is murder.. would like your feedback on it. 64Mode that is.

32 mode is pretty cool also, try it!

I hope Winterhilf make singleplayer mode also for it. at the moment only coop works.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 10-10-2009, 20:10:55
Yer, I know exactly what you mean... The Americans cant make it past that open area with the stream, Germans, many armed with G43 come blasting across...


But don't forget that it was pretty much the same thing in FH1's PHL, riight after the PAK/ MG base after the farm, And this one actually has it easier to succeed becuase bots don't snipe.

Basically, there are three possibilities... The toughest being the most fun - Forget advancing across the left-most edge of the stream where the main force is advancing - you will be playing a game of luck

Option A:
FH1 style... the rightmost - Swim, across the right edge of the stream where those defense bocage-sand wall thingies make it harder for Jerry to hit you before you get close to the stream, swim across, take out any infatry who may have seen you and will surely be heading your way... Move quikcly towards the houses, being on guard for squads of infantry coming down that side - Luck required: 40 - 60%

Option B:
The road - Toughest but most fun way... This one gets your entire force into the frey. Move down the road to the left of the stream, taking cover and letting your squad do the bulk of the fighting, staying out of range of tomoato mashers and keeping clear of one-time rifle-nade hits, take cove,r move on up until you get to the flag... Luck required: 30 -40%

Option C:
Sneak around the left side of the road, round the bocage-sand defenses... You might be lucky to get a few other soldiers, maybe even squad mates. Cap the flag, being on guard of single infantry who might spot you.
Luck required: 10 - 30%


It sure is one tough level and the bots really shine in that one, save for their lack of defense of the first two bases, inability to climb most house stairs and no use for artillery - But there are paled in comparison to the intense firefight Probably, my American-favorite map in 2.2

Keep up the good work WinterHilf... Can barely test the maps for now with my rig out of commision - But from the little low-frame-rate seconds I experienced it, I did the note the Germans attacking the cliffs more viciously. I do hope both sides get to use MGs more agressively, bots will be able to move up and downstairs in buildings and the Flakvierling gets to see some action

Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 11-10-2009, 12:10:26
...getting the last two flags is murder...
Yeah, you're not wrong! I tried it with 49 bots (25v25) on max difficulty.

(To prevent this thread becoming a mess of posts about various maps I've moved the rest of this post to a new topic-cannonfodder)
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 11-10-2009, 20:10:07
Hey, can Singleplayer be made a bit more unique... Currently, it is simply COOP without its felxibilities and with only 16bots

Can bots be changed to 48 as is found in COOP for one
And can their ratio for each map be modified so that it plays balanced as well as true to that battle eg. In Tobruk, the Brits should be less (As an equal number, they will always win), same goes for Sfakia and maybe, Crete




Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 13-10-2009, 08:10:52
...and with only 16bots...
So you're not familiar with modifying your aidefault file to get more bots in SP?

Go into 'C:\Program Files\EA\Battlefield 2\mods\fh2\ai' and open aidefault with Notepad.

Modify it so it looks like this:
Code: [Select]
echo *****************************************************************************************
echo AIDefault.ai ****************************************************************************
echo *****************************************************************************************
aiSettings.setNSides 2
aiSettings.setAutoSpawnBots 1
aiSettings.overrideMenuSettings 1
aiSettings.setMaxNBots 49
aiSettings.maxBotsIncludeHumans 0
aiSettings.setBotSkill 1.0
run BotNames.ai
aiSettings.setInformationGridDimension 48
run AIPathFinding.ai
rem EOF

This line: aiSettings.setMaxNBots XX ...sets the total number of bots

This line: aiSettings.setBotSkill X.X ...sets the difficulty level (0.1=easiest/1.0=hardest)

But increasing the number of bots/difficulty uses more CPU grunt...
Quote
My PC is almost a Pentium III so it runs Fh2 painfully.
... :o I'm amazed you can run it at all!

I'm not too sure how you'd unbalance the teams in SP. I think it involves modifying one of the lines in the 'ServerSettings' file.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 13-10-2009, 09:10:47
No, no, I'm talking about by default.. ie. By default SP bots should be 48 (A fair number, I think, which goes well with the game's graphics)..

Bot numbers in COOP can be alrtered by the player, but what I'm saying is, by default, bot ratio in Sp should be as close  to real life ratios as possible without upsetting the balance - Like I said, bots in sfakia have to be more:less in favor of Jerry otherwise it wont ever be a fair fight

I'm sure I can figure out how to change numbers - thanks for the code, I will definitely make use of it when I get my rig back up and running, but I'm not sure we should force every other player who wants to just start a firefight to have to tweak settings first


And yer... I have an equivalent of an early P4 with 1GB RAM! At lowest possible settings, FH2 is almost unplayable! Heck, FH1 slows down when I approach a town, have alot of bots around me or am in the midst of alot of explosions... Basically, once the game gets interesting :-) .. oh, but my rig is way better, just on fritz @ this point in time.. maybe till December :-/
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 13-10-2009, 15:10:02
Ah, sorry my bad. :)

I agree, 16 bots on 64-size maps is pretty crap.

Although rather than having it stuck at 48, putting in a slider that goes up to 48 would be better. After all, 48 bots on a 16-size map, would be pretty hectic. And not everyone has a system that can run that many bots (me for example :().

Project Reality have a good setup for SP, they have a screen where you can set the number of bots (48 max.) and alter the bot ratio. It's similar to the one used for setting up Coop games.

+1 for the different bot ratios too.

On Sfakia 64, a large part of the problem is bots spawning and instantly dying at the spawnpoint on the hill south of the British R.Guard flag. At one point I saw 6 bodies on the ground. I've also seen a bunch of bots plunge lemming-like off the steep part of the cliff next to that flag as well.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 13-10-2009, 17:10:28
I completely agree.. If its possible, there should certainly be a slider... OR, somehow have each map have the number of bots that work... ie. A 16-size maps should have 16, a 32-size map, 32 etc, etc (But I doubt its possible)

And please don't forget the ratio... We can't have BF42's campaign, sure, but we can at least have it setup right :-)


EDIT: Further tests on PDH - 2 things:

1/ American bots get stuck against two upright sticks lined against a wall @ the farm  - Right next to the direct path leading to the last base (Just before the blown out Civi truck) (i.e the next to last base)
2/ No one spawns in houses no more, huh? :-( And no house SL spawning or fighting in houses either
3/ No flame thrower or French guns once last base is left to cap



Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 15-10-2009, 07:10:39
Any new maps to test, WinterHilf?
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: winterhilf on 17-10-2009, 16:10:51
Could you doublecheck this please?
PHL with the sp gamemode.
http://rapidshare.com/files/294238098/purple_heart_lane_sp.zip
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 18-10-2009, 01:10:53
Not a problem... :-)

Just give me till weekends ending and I will have an essay sized feedback for ya ;-)

BTW, I know you aren't there yet, but since these will likely be the stock for the respective maps' AI, a bit of feedback on some non-official map AI:

Fall of Tobruk - Simple issues, tommy doesn't use AT guns, Jerry doesn't respawn @ main base so tanks get only one go, some Jerries get stuck @ static tank debris just in view of first base (The one interfacing with a nearby wall) - Solid AI here btw... really good

Gazala - No AI for strip between base 1 (Tommy main base) and base 4 (Base directly between Tommy and Jerry main bases), more work on Hurricane AT plane so that it can hit tanks and still use 2ndary weapon for infantry, code for Tommy mg tripod


Sidi Rezegh - Stop Tommy attacking Jerry's main base after capping all flags, let all bots camp 88 gun, AT guns and mg positions... Might wanna check the code for that new DDay map I spoke about earlier (in mapping section), if possible, code the apartment base and if confident about pathmapping in that area, have flag cap underground... Might want to add Jerry counter-attack tanks since they find it impossible to counter-attack with such heavy Tommy tanks... Include use of AT bomb for Jerry and skip the use of landmines

Bardia - have bots encamp on stationary weapons

Alam Halfa - stronger pathmapping and tank AI so that battle proceeds faster to avoid Jerry armour loss, camp stationary weapons
* Tried this map last night and was impressed with the strafing capabilities of the German Me109... got killed with it twice and had to take cover other times, it came back and forth, back and forth with HE when I when I was on stationary guns, and with mg when I wasn't ... Was smiling even when it cut me down with 7.6 mm bullets :-)

In general, please improve use of Allied aircraft handling for bots... and Stu... ok, why whip a dead horse

Trust me, let bots camp stationary vehicles.. there are enough bots fighting to make up for those stationary...and it divides the battlefield into hard points, which is more fun than a continuous firefight.. which is the best case scenario currently

hopeful: Pathmap buildings... if possible, churches too


EDIT
BTW, tried the map once and capped all the way ujp to the next to last flag... What Ai changes were made to the map? What should we be looking for?


Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: winterhilf on 18-10-2009, 13:10:35
Just needed to know whether the gamemode worked or not, thanks.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 18-10-2009, 15:10:56
Game modes work alright... Never did try singleplayer for this map - Always COOP, but Sp certainly works now...

I should add, not for just this map, but certaily inclusive, when the bots man AT and mgs, including the 88, especially when facing a target rich environment, you often get this situation where they fire in bursts or in single rounds followed by a pause... however, during this pause, you can still hear the guns firing... you get 2 88 shots between reloads although the gun isn't firing @ those times, you hear an endless mg34 burst when the hanomag is is thick combat although its only firing intermittently, and you have the 2pdr in Seige of Tobruk firing fewer shots than the sound claims it is... Didn't note this error until 2.15, when hanomag mgs actually worked, and bots used the 2pdr more readily...


BTW, bots still don't spawn at the first 2 German bases and don't use mg34s in that area, even when commanded to move right next to it... Only mgs in use throughout the map are the lafette mg42 and the mg34 defending the last base - 88 base is actually pretty deserted too unless American advance stalls

Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 18-10-2009, 16:10:20
Yeah, 16/32/64 sizes all showing in the menu.

Gave 64 a go (only 32 bots though), went pretty well. Most of the action was on the road leading to Crossroads, I couldn't cap the last two flags. The bots were using the Lafette (near Nebelwerfer) to great effect and at one point I saw a US bot man the stationary MG at Summers.

BTW I like the ticket count, but I have to try it with more bots because I won 494-0.

I'll try the 16 and 32 tomorrow.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 19-10-2009, 07:10:16
Another addition to the general AI changes - With the scout plane working as a mobile commander vehicle now, I really think bots should learn to fly that thing way higher... they make too easy AA targets - I wouldn't trust my life with a bot piloting one of those things now...

Wven as simple intel, it helps if they flew higher and lasted longer... It should be another plane that acts as its greatest threat





Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Zoologic on 19-10-2009, 13:10:20
Well tried PHL 16/32/64 on SP, it works pretty well, and similar to the coop ones, just a bit different bot behavior. The German bots no longer stayed around the town, but actively attacked its surroundings.

The 64 (played 4 rounds, 3 yanks, 1 jerry) is almost the same, the first Jerry posts aren't manned. And the real fight started after bridge no. 4.
The 32 (played 2 round, 1 jerry, 1 yank)  is more intense, however no real difficulties crossing the river by swimming as the bots are busy lobbing grenades at crossroads.
The 16 (played 4 round 2 yank, 2 jerry) is fun, the bots are very creative, randomly seeking new ways to outflank us if we camp for too long on certain spawn-raping positions. They no longer take the same route. It is still pretty easy pwning them all from higher spots, since their riflenade aim isn't accurate and somehow their fire isn't much more accurate either. But short MG burst from the bots finished my pwnage anyway.

And yeah... the buildings could present a very interesting fight, the bots only enter it whenever i camp inside and expose myself. Seems like haven't been path-mapped. Most of the time they fail because after getting into the door or climbing the stair, they got easily disoriented for a period of time that is enough for me to attach bayonet and thrust them.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 22-10-2009, 12:10:02
And they never get in deep enough... just at the door - I think they much prefer to fire at you from outside - And if there were commander arty- You'd get aloty of that if ever you entered any house.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 25-10-2009, 14:10:13
Any new AI modifications and Maps to test, ei WinterHilf? Goodwood, maybe?

EDIT: At least fixed ctd code for Goodwood? But that's a personal request, not a test-request... Otherwise, keep em coming, keep em coming - beta testing eint the same if not frequent :-)
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Michael Z Freeman on 31-10-2009, 12:10:47
Hello !

Thanks for SP so far. Been enjoying myself in there and I'm almost speechless as usual by the quality of the FH mod.

I was testing some maps from the old FHSP beta release and I was surprised to find that some of them copy across to the new release and seem stable. I saw one minor error - an anti tank soldier with two anti tank guns on his shoulder ... I don't know, maybe he was feeling energetic that day, but it looked like an error.

These ....

bardia\
gazala\
sidi_rezegh\
alam_halfa\

So those might provide some basis for future work (note: thanks to Redsand for the original release of these).

Another thing I noticed, in FH1 BG1942 was spotter binoculars in a bunker next to a mortar. So you could spot with those and then nip round to the mortar and get a camera view. I wonder if there is some way of doing this in FH2 so at least the player can target their own artillery even if bots can't ? 
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: NTH on 31-10-2009, 23:10:09


Another thing I noticed, in FH1 BG1942 was spotter binoculars in a bunker next to a mortar. So you could spot with those and then nip round to the mortar and get a camera view. I wonder if there is some way of doing this in FH2 so at least the player can target their own artillery even if bots can't ? 

Long time no hear, Barney.
You can spot for yourself.
Did a few times myself. Mind you, it did involve me dying and quickly spawn at the arty pieces.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Michael Z Freeman on 01-11-2009, 21:11:50
Long time no hear, Barney.
You can spot for yourself.
Did a few times myself. Mind you, it did involve me dying and quickly spawn at the arty pieces.

Hello ! Of course. Spot and then suicide and spawn near artillery. Brutal and hacky but I guess it works. I'll have to try this one. I wonder if you can create a dummy vehicle remotely attached between spotter and artillery and then switch positions ? Or a dummy object that would send you to the arty ?
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: CBCRonin on 02-11-2009, 02:11:55
Binos with the mortar kit would be very nice, especially for SP and possibly even for those that play online.

(Though a good play test, evaluating whether it would over power the kit, would have to be conducted.)
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 03-11-2009, 11:11:35
More importantly would be to figure a way to make em fire arty - Mortar and howitzers. The rest is just coloured bubbles...

Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Michael Z Freeman on 03-11-2009, 12:11:53
Your opinion of course. I see that this desire to make bots fire everything does not give the SP something to do. It may be possible I suppose to have bots react to spotting and fire on targets but all the reports I've seen suggest that the tech to do that is simply not in the BF2 engine. A better thing might be to at least give the SP the ability to fire targetted / ranged artillery themselves to cover the AI.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 03-11-2009, 14:11:19
On some maps (not all), it's just not the same without arty.

Quote
...have bots react to spotting and fire on targets but all the reports I've seen suggest that the tech to do that is simply not in the BF2 engine.
AFAIK the bots need to be able to see their target before they'll shoot at it.

I see 3 options for the arty:

1...Get the bots to spot. E.g. have them equip their "weapon" (binocs) and "shoot" (spot).

Problem: Limiting the amount of times they spot/shoot. Otherwise you'd end up with dozens of targets to sift through.

2...Give control of the arty to the AI commander. E.g. make the stationary arty commander assets.

Instead of firing only when losing a flag, have it fire randomly in the general area of flags held by the enemy. That'd add a bit of unpredictability to SP... :)

Problem: Don't know if it's technically possible.

3...Like CBCRonin said, put some binocs in the mortar kit.

Problem: It's obvious...if your close enough to be able to spot the enemy, you're within his firing range...

I'd like it to be option 1, so I don't have to resort to dumb-firing the arty when I want to use it, but option 3 seems the most likely.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 03-11-2009, 14:11:00
I understand the limitations. But well, it is a great loss in Fh2 where FH1 really got it right - The sheer arty pounding and tanks doing both HE and AP in one short were quite effective in covering the ineffectivness of the bots' AI.

In FH2, rifling is alot better, and bots seem like they are less of vegetables than their FH1 counterparts... Would be a big mistake to avoid pathmapping buildings as that will bring them closer to the latter's dismal thinking, but arty is the real winner

The effect of total war involving air support, armor, infantry and arty is what reall does it - Tanks in FH2 are, let's face it, more stupid than one since they can't hit well at range and close in too much for interesting tank combat. Arty, if any of the theories were possible, will really do it for the battefield and tactics.

Whereas having bots use binocs seem simple enuff in theory (I mean, their FH1 counterparts did it), it is even more of a theory IF they will 'shoot' just once and consider it a succesful hit the first time rather than binoc-spam.

Abilty for bots to fire arty based on player targetting is even slimmer a chance since they will have to react to the player first and foremost, a thing FH2 bots do worse than even vanilla. Then they will need to translate the spot into coordinates to aim and fire at noting that they are indeed firing at a target and should fire until its gone... quite alot to process for our little logic side-liners, I'd say


now some work-around for them to fire... irrespective of if they are blocked or not is the one thing I personally think can be achieved by some trick of sorts. After all, I'm sure like their predeccesors, they are limited in sight only by the coder's idea of how far they should see... and what is more, I'm sure they'd miss alot more than Fh1 bots, which is as realistic as we want them, really
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Ionizer on 04-11-2009, 03:11:45
1...Get the bots to spot. E.g. have them equip their "weapon" (binocs) and "shoot" (spot).

Problem: Limiting the amount of times they spot/shoot. Otherwise you'd end up with dozens of targets to sift through.

You realize that every person who has binocs can only have one spot active at a time, right?  If there are 5 bots with the scout kits, the max amount of spots you could ever get is 5.  The last spot given is the one one that shows up for the arty gunner.  This is how it works in MP, and I don't see why it wouldn't work in SP the same way.

Also, as to why bots in FH1 could spot and use arty and ones in FH2 can't, you need to remember that the entire arty system in FH2 is completely made by the FH2 Devs.  BF2 had no arty functions (hell, I don't even know if it had binoculars) other than the commander arty.  The FH2 Arty seems to work completely through python scripts and the bot's AI might not be able to read those.  If I remember correctly, the Kit Limits don't work correctly for bots either, and those are keyed off Python Code as well...  BF1942 had Spotter/Arty Gunner stuff built into the engine, hence why bots could use it in FH1.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 04-11-2009, 06:11:48
I was thinking... isn't it just possible to have bots on arty 'see' as far as the gun range.. ie. like FH1's arty range - And let them not care about obstractions save for those directly next to them

Cuz its so, so sad not to have functional artillery in FH2.... Its so much less arcade than FH1's.. I so wish bots would ue them ingame
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 05-11-2009, 07:11:42
You realize that every person who has binocs can only have one spot active at a time, right?

No, I didn't realize that. Well that removes the problem, so I'd say that's the way to go. Unless it's easier just to put binocs in the mortar kit.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 05-11-2009, 09:11:14
Like Ionizer said...

Unlike FH1/BF42, BF2 never had manned artillery so the idea of spotting and spots (Maybe even binocs) is new to FH2

New, as in BRAND new, cuz there was no architecture that was even borrowed to create it. Binocs borrow from sniper rifle scopes, sticky bombd borrow from c4... but binoc spots is a new concept as is zeroing the arty sights

Arty in Fh1, as far the engine is concerned is simply huge AT guns (like the stationary AT weapon in vanilla) with low velocity HE projectiles... now for bots to know this, requires them to see targets they can hit - in plane sight


Imagine making a Wanted mod where riflemen can fire across the map with the curve in the projectile (bullet) being considered for targets really far off ie. units clearly not in sight, and over the horizon... if you  can, then you can tell how hard it is for arty to fire - Now bots using spots is adding entire snippets of code to what what bots are allowed to do -

Now they should be able to 'see' using the over-sized AT gun pictures of positions tele-copied by binoc users soemwhere else on the map altogether... that's just concept, now imagine coding it... if even possible

It sure is an option, don't get me wrong - But just realise how novel it is

That's why I wanted WinterHilf to try and see how it was possible to let bots 'see' targets well over the horizon once they were on arty and fire based on this - It would require bots realising its actually ok to fire at targets which are not in direct line of sight, but can notwithstanding be seen
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: winterhilf on 05-11-2009, 22:11:46
Afaik it's based on the weapon's line of fire, if "you" can't see it, neither can bots, so they won't fire.
Tried a few tweaks with the mortar but to no avail, I know Bizness spent some time on it too.
Also, Dice's 1.5 patch has broken the ai commander.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 05-11-2009, 23:11:47
*Without emotion* fuckers


Well, I suppose no arty then huh? :-(

Man, that's what defined FH1

At least bots can fire at point blank range - Or farther than rifles and tanks with mortar and howiter, yes?

I mean, El-Alamein should be a good map for arty with all them PAKs on the hill and open almost flat terrain? Or Alam Halfa
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 06-11-2009, 04:11:23
...Also, Dice's 1.5 patch has broken the ai commander.
Damn, I completely forgot about that.

And I really have to ask myself how I overlooked that, considering I've still got a 1.41 install of BF2 for THAT EXACT REASON!!! ::)
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: novice12 on 11-11-2009, 00:11:35
Hello there!

I'm playing FH2SP already for several months, the MOD is great, special thanks for the "Invasion of Сretе" map.
Recently I've decided to add some new handheld weapons {three rifles} - just for fun {not for my own MOD or anything like this  :) }. So I added first two new rifles, but failed to add the last one - the game simply crashed when I tried to run the map with this weapon  :(.
Are there any manual on the subject, or maybe anybody could help?
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Ionizer on 11-11-2009, 00:11:25
Anything added into the mod needs to be separately coded for the bots to recognize what it does.  If you made new rifles (or whatever) you would need to give them AI code or else the game will crash anytime you or a bot tries to use them in single player.

This is why Operation GoodWood crashes.  One of the Sherman models is not coded for AI support, so if you or a bot tries to use it, it crashes.  Some deployable weapons also cause this.

I do not know how to do any of this, but I have been paying attention to the topics on these forums and slowly absorbing all kinds of information, like some kind of brain sponge.  I wonder if I bleed information if someone squeezes me...
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: novice12 on 11-11-2009, 02:11:56
2 Ionizer
Thanks for the prompt reply.

Actually I've just "borrowed" some weaponry from Eve of Destruction MOD - so far it is Mosin-Nagant rifle, SVT rifle, DP-28 LMG and PPSH-41 SMG. If I'm not mistaken, you're talking about "weapons.ai" file located in "AI'" subfolder {objects_weapons_server.zip file  ;D} - all of the abovementioned guns have this file, moreover, I was 100% successfull in adding all of them except the SVT :-\
I have carefully checked the SVT files and noticed that it uses 3p animations from SVD rifle {located in original BF2} + some sounds are taken also from SVD. I've fixed it, all animations are in SVT main folder now, but the game still crashes.
What is also very interesting, is that I've encountered similar problem when first added PPSH - the map loaded, "Join game" button appeared, and the game crashed after I've pressed it. The problem was in the weapon Icons {used for weapon selection, mini-map etc.}. I simply used thompson's icons for it.
So...now the icons are OK, AI file OK, but the game still crashes {it doesn't even load the map - only up to 99%}. What's wrong with this SVT?  :-\
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: winterhilf on 11-11-2009, 06:11:39
Try running in window mode, a pop up should appear telling you what you're still missing.
For most sp related stuff there's usualy very helpful tuts to be found on it at bfsp.

http://www.battlefieldsingleplayer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13933&hl=

Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: novice12 on 12-11-2009, 13:11:23
2 winterhilf

Thanks for the advice.

There is only one problem - I can't find the way ro run FH2 in window mode  :'(
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 12-11-2009, 13:11:17
Just a guess, try dragging the FH exe... into a word edittor... there might be a screenview thingy there, if it has a value of 1, make 0 to run it in window mode


like I said, I might be wrong so don't do anything permanent or just wait for WinterHilf to reply
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Eat Uranium on 12-11-2009, 13:11:10
Add:
+fullscreen 0
to the end of the target of the desktop shortcut so it looks similar to this:
"C:\Program Files\EA GAMES\Battlefield 2\FH2.exe" +fullscreen 0
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 12-11-2009, 20:11:13
whoops sorry for the misdirection... ya, that's it.. been a while since I needed to

Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: novice12 on 17-11-2009, 00:11:23
2 Eat Uranium & djinn

Thanks for the help, now I guess it'll take a whole day to locate the "SVT bug"  ;D

BTW {sorry for the possible off-topic} does anybody know, is there any configuration file or something like this to regulate the game settings {like cashe size, Vsync etc.} to adjust the game performance. I lnow that most of the game settings can be changed in "Video"\"Sound"\"Game" options, but maybe there is also a special file for more detailed setup  ??? 
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 24-11-2009, 12:11:15
Not sure about those, but I know one killer to gameplay in SP/COOP is RAM. Try reducing the number of bots - Until i get my rig up and running, I play with low specs for everything, except effects (Just gosta have my pudding) and with a max of 28 bots total. I used to play with 18, but I needed more squads for the effect

Frankly, anything abover 48 becomes a frag-fest


A DAY LATER - TO AVOID DBL POSTING:
I was playing COOP Luttich, trying to get a better oppinion of the map (The flags' spacing doesn't help since al the space infront of both main bases is useless except as means of getting to the town)... Anyway, I noted something terribly wrong... Bot who spawn at the main base, for some reason STAY there  - I know of Americans, not sure of Jerry. They actually idle, which is rare for FH2 bots... I had to TK alot of those bots to get the game moving, since my entire squad had spawned there

Also, sometimes a tank may be taken and remain at the base too... OR it drives towards the church base and drives right off the map and is killed for it. So unless the tanks decide to go south to the 3 other bases (Both town bases and the third one), its rare to have them on the battlefield at all...



Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 20-02-2010, 19:02:55
Ok, big issue. At 32 bots, the game is fine for 50:50 ratio. Anything more and axis increse in count and allies reduce. By 48 bots at same ratio, you get 15 allies to 33 axis! This is an issue in coop. Please give us the DIY version also because with so many bugs and few fixes, sp has become a trajedy.

In 2.0, bots were daft, but they used everything fairly well and no map ctded. Now few things work right besides infantry, which, thank you, is almost perfect. Sometimes, I just want to play fh2, and not always beta-test it
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 21-02-2010, 12:02:36
Out of curiousity, why do you play Coop?

Have you tried changing the sv.setCoopBotRatio in ...mods\fh2\settings\Serversettings.con?

Come to think of it, that's ass-backwards. If the Coop count is imbalanced due to there being more than 32 bots, it should be putting more on the Axis team...

Quote
If you have more than 32 bots and you set the ratio to 50%, the game puts 16 on MEC/China and it dumps the rest on US. So if you have, let's say 50 bots, it won't give you 25v25 (USvMEC), it'll give you a split of 34v16.
- http://www.battlefieldsingleplayer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14792
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 22-02-2010, 12:02:00
If it is 50 ratio, it is supposed to be 1:1 ratio irrespective of total count. I've played 48 bots as default until 2.25 with no issue. Its an issue that is new to 2.25.

Some battles are best with one ratio with others best another.

That freedom to decide is my reason for playing coop over sp, and it is now lost
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: thliaw on 03-07-2010, 05:07:13
Is it possible to code the AI moving in a team all the time? You guys should have played company of heroes, I personally think that it would be cool if the bots in FH is just like in COH. like 3-4 of them in a team, where always stick together, once spawn and will back to the team where they belong to? I think that is much better compare to the bots which are scattering around the map like now.

Such as, when you are a team leader of a squad, the AI in the group will always keep a short distance between you and follow where you go.

 ;D just suggestion...
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 03-07-2010, 13:07:22
I don't think that's possible. It falls down to this using a totally different game engine. In COH, its more like they are one unit, with infantry being able to make random errors in motion, especially during a firefight that may make them disperse slightly, but which quickly corrects itself soon after....

In FH2, bots are completely independent entities with their only link being commander attack orders (which is squad by squad basis and squad leader spawn). These do make them stick together more, as long as the squad captian is still alive.


A way to increase your team (if you are leader) moving together is to be conscious of valid spawn points all over the map i.e. areas where bots can spawn on you. You may notice that as your team dies out, they will delay their spawn in order to spawn on you (You need to ask Drawde why that is though). You may use this to approach enemy points and get them spawning on you, hence keeping the units integrity.

I for one use this on Purple Heart lane to make flanking moves between the farm house and the next-to-last base since its the hardest to get by a head-on attack, or attacking the 88 and holding that flag.

It might be possible to increase bots dependence of squad leader spawns as opposed to flag spawns, but I know little on how to do this. Let's get the next of Drawde's patches out and maybe, we would see if we can deliberate on making bots more of teamplayers

Making bots rigidly following commander and Squad leader orders more might also help. Another project for the future, as it may involve the commo-rose...Also a possible future project

I hope this helped...
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Sarry on 28-01-2011, 16:01:41
I know this is a random question but what happened to the map "Falaise Pocket "?
Because whenever I play the game in SinglePlayer or Multiplayer, I don't see that map anymore.
I remember playing it in previous versions, i think 2.26.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 28-01-2011, 17:01:16
Ah, now that's the one map in FH2 that doesn't have official singleplayer support yet. The one in question was designed by Aserafimov. A Download sbhould be at the DL section of this part of the forum. You might have to personally work on changing the mortars to have the '_ai' that makes them fire at range. The level isn't complete without that
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: aserafimov on 28-01-2011, 17:01:34
I know this is a random question but what happened to the map "Falaise Pocket "?
Because whenever I play the game in SinglePlayer or Multiplayer, I don't see that map anymore.
I remember playing it in previous versions, i think 2.26.

link for falaise pocket:
http://www.4shared.com/file/tp0sF7XY/falaise_pocket_v1.html

I think that cF removed it from DL section. Just rename your original map folder and extract this to the levels directory. it's compatible with fh2.3 condition.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Sarry on 28-01-2011, 21:01:12
Ah, now that's the one map in FH2 that doesn't have official singleplayer support yet. The one in question was designed by Aserafimov. A Download sbhould be at the DL section of this part of the forum. You might have to personally work on changing the mortars to have the '_ai' that makes them fire at range. The level isn't complete without that
Thanks a lot  :)
Though, I don't know which files/lines to edit for that. So is there is a guide or small list that can help me?

I know this is a random question but what happened to the map "Falaise Pocket "?
Because whenever I play the game in SinglePlayer or Multiplayer, I don't see that map anymore.
I remember playing it in previous versions, i think 2.26.

link for falaise pocket:
http://www.4shared.com/file/tp0sF7XY/falaise_pocket_v1.html

I think that cF removed it from DL section. Just rename your original map folder and extract this to the levels directory. it's compatible with fh2.3 condition.
Thanks a lot for the download link.  :)


I looked in the DL section, and couldn't find it. So I thought about asking here lol.


EDIT: Actually, I tried to download it, but it doesn't work. It says "The file link that you requested is not valid." :'(

Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: aserafimov on 29-01-2011, 00:01:13
Ah, now that's the one map in FH2 that doesn't have official singleplayer support yet. The one in question was designed by Aserafimov. A Download sbhould be at the DL section of this part of the forum. You might have to personally work on changing the mortars to have the '_ai' that makes them fire at range. The level isn't complete without that
Thanks a lot  :)
Though, I don't know which files/lines to edit for that. So is there is a guide or small list that can help me?

I know this is a random question but what happened to the map "Falaise Pocket "?
Because whenever I play the game in SinglePlayer or Multiplayer, I don't see that map anymore.
I remember playing it in previous versions, i think 2.26.

link for falaise pocket:
http://www.4shared.com/file/tp0sF7XY/falaise_pocket_v1.html

I think that cF removed it from DL section. Just rename your original map folder and extract this to the levels directory. it's compatible with fh2.3 condition.
Thanks a lot for the download link.  :)


I looked in the DL section, and couldn't find it. So I thought about asking here lol.


EDIT: Actually, I tried to download it, but it doesn't work. It says "The file link that you requested is not valid." :'(



strange, because it works on me...
try to download via this thread--->post no.5
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=7262.0

if you are unable to downloaded please let me know and I will upload it to filefront web site(tomorrow)...

Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Sarry on 29-01-2011, 00:01:43
It still gives me the same message
I tried with different browsers(Mozilla, Chrome and Explorer) and still the same result :-[
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Devilman on 29-01-2011, 02:01:56
It still gives me the same message
I tried with different browsers(Mozilla, Chrome and Explorer) and still the same result :-[

Reuploaded,just for you  :)

http://www.filefront.com/17863814/Falaise_Pocket.rar/
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Sarry on 29-01-2011, 04:01:55
It worked  :D
I downloaded, unzipped and now playing it.

Thanks a lot :)
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: aserafimov on 29-01-2011, 05:01:08
It still gives me the same message
I tried with different browsers(Mozilla, Chrome and Explorer) and still the same result :-[

Reuploaded,just for you  :)

http://www.filefront.com/17863814/Falaise_Pocket.rar/

thanks man :P
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Michael Z Freeman on 23-05-2011, 19:05:01
I don't think I said this officially to the FH devs. Please can you fix the Comma Rose for SP/Coop ?
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 24-05-2011, 00:05:10
You want to speak directly, and preferably in person i.e PM with Remick_04 on this. I recall the last time he did say he was a bit stumped by it, although it was on top of his to-do list.

Still, we need to appreciate he's more a navmesher, and had to learn AI coding from scratch when he became a fan-modder.

I think if anyone can help with this, they should contact Remick_04 directly (PM again) and see how to work it out, because its all well and good to work on it, but it needs to be in a format that he can replicate or indeed dump into the build for 2.4... Remember, that's the point of the Singleplayer project now these days - Everything for the build

I am doing my own wheeling and dealing and perhaps some day it may come to light - the invisible arm strikes back :D
but till then, individual initiative could really be used at this point

I should thank Void, DJBarney, Raziel, ZXX43, Devilman and Canonfodder specifically for this lately. I think the singleplayer forum would dead without you guys. We suffered a bit of a blow after Drawde left; I'd like to think we are finally recovering. Slowly, but surely. Something's moving here *weak smile*
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: SargentSundae on 10-09-2011, 02:09:10
Bots can see me when i am really far away and through bushes, fog, trees....... When normal players wouldn't. Can you fix that?
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 10-09-2011, 10:09:38
Engine-limitations. Bots can't see further than humans though. But they do see perfectly through bushes.

My suggestion - See it as a challenge: use military maneuvering to avoid their shots as much as possible. It makes you a better player online.

It IS possible in theory to fix, but it will require a super computer to run FH2 then.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: gavrant on 11-09-2011, 20:09:03
There is kind of solution: limit weapons' max. range for bots. You can do it by editing every weapons.ai file in objects_weapons_server.zip (see maxRange string and don't forget to update optimalRangePercentage). It doesn't prevent bots from shooting through undergrowth at close ranges, but at least you won't be shot by MG-fire from opposite side of a map.

I limited rifles to 150 meters (250 - 300 by default, on some maps it exceeds view range), MGs - to 125-150 meters (default: 200-300) and SMGs to 50-75 meters (default 100).

Also, if you tweak "aiSettings.setBehaviourModifier MoveTo" string in ai\aibehaviours.ai (search for string "aiSettings.createBehaviourModifiers StandardWeights"), you'll get a nice bonus: open field battles (e.g. Pointe du Hoc) won't degrade to sharpshooting matches, bots sitting still and wasting whole ammo on some distant enemy.

Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 12-09-2011, 01:09:10
You dont get shot by mgs at the opposite end of the map. The selectable mg is used at the same range as a rifle. And in single shot with as much accuracy as rifles.

It will be all and good if the plan was to make bots act like sedated cannonfodder. But the idea is to create challenge per bot.

Not while bots wont move tactically, they do fire aprox. as far as a human - But with deviation, so you barely scratch the surface when dealing with bot accuracy compared to playing online.

Like I said, the solution - really, is to just move more tactically and use men to reduce the statistical chance of yourself getting shot, rather than lone-wolfing it.

These lessons ARE supposed to improve your online play after all.

Part of the reason, I never recommend setting ratios between player and bot to 1: 47 or something, but instead setting teams to 50:50 as it should be.

If bots were handicapped further, we would just be making them dumber than they already are, and for a specfic player preference...
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: gavrant on 12-09-2011, 18:09:50
Djinn, don't take my words about MG-fire and opposite side of a map literally, it was a hyperbole.

And sorry, I didn't make my true motive clear. It is not to make my life easier by nerfing bots. With some experience, it is not that hard to avoid their fire, and I would rather engage 30 bots simultaneously than single DAzLAYER (that's for "improve your online play" part). The primary motive is to make bots pay more attention to objective and less to lengthy fruitless sharpshooter matches, bots being highly inaccurate at long ranges.

Let me illustrate the point on Pointe du Hoc 64 "vanilla" singleplayer:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2s6k6za.jpg)
Bots move pretty well from beach to "Destroyed Bunker" flag. But then allies and axis get stuck at blue and yellow lines respectively, 250-300 meters apart, trying to snipe each other till the end of a round.

With decreased handheld weapons' ranges and tweaked aibehaviours.ai bots are less distracted by distant enemies, which they can hardly hit anyway. As a result, the "Farm" flag being captured without my necessary presence. And battles are more intense and objective-driven, somewhat closer to online experience and with less sneaking and lone-wolfing on my part.

As for max. range of MG emplacements: on PHL 32 there was (there is?) one particularly annoying MG, which, despite undergrowth, covered whole area of allied advance, effectively halting it. Yes, human player could outflank it, but for bots it was impossible task to do. So better part of a round I was running back and forth, sniping or blasting that MG, only to hear it firing again after several seconds. That was frustrating experience. The easiest path to improve said experience was shorter range for MG emplacements.

And finally, Djinn, I'm confused by "ratios between player and bot" in your post. Are we talking about singleplayer or coop?
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 12-09-2011, 21:09:08
I understand your reasoning. Don't think I am simply trying to pooh-pooh the idea. And no, I got the hyoerbole.

But you see, my concept of AI in forgotten hope is this.

I believe the weapon handling is perfect, the rate of fire, damage and mode of use. For this reason, the final piece that makes things work as they should, is making them used at the range they would be.

With guns set correct, you get riflemen moving along SMGs and LMGs. Riflemen fire and move in, MGs prone at range and suppress and smgs move in under their covering fire for the kill. Bots tend to fire at the closest person, with a over-riding logic of firng at anyone who fires at them. For this reason, the ability to put enough firepower downrange will cause enemy bots to focus on simply firing back at riflemen at range, while their SMG team and other non-firing rifle teams move up and finish them off.

If this was reduced, you WONT get the weapon use as it should be, and the human can mow them scores of infantry moving close up without firing, while being in HIS range of fire. And with bots only, you will get ALOT more knife battles and silly combat situations really close up.

Well, that's the theory anyway.

Its not that bots can't be improved. Its that, I think its more about firming up their AI choice logic, how they use their weapons, NOT the range it is used at.

Personally, I think bots play more like real soldiers than human players do - sans moving from cover to cover.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: gavrant on 12-09-2011, 23:09:13
I agree with you that "bots play more like real soldiers than human players do" - lust for frags doesn't outweigh team's objectives. But I don't think they show good use of cover. In skirmish they mostly sit in the open. And illusion of "moving from cover to cover" is probably due waypoints, hammered into their "heads" by developers.

As for "the human can mow them scores of infantry moving close up without firing", I can't remember any maps with clear view distance above 150 meters (except Northern African desert, but those maps are more suitable for tanks, not infantry). Some building, hill or undergrowth always obscures the view.

Also, note that my tweaks do not touch close range. I have played on PdH, Brest, Sfakia, Giarabub and PHL for month and haven't seen "more knife battles and silly combat situations really close up".

But I'm thinking now about two other ways to make bots use handheld weapons more efficiently:
1) weaponTemplate.optimalRangePercentage - AFAIK, bot will start firing at max. range, but will keep advancing at the same time until its target is within optimal range.
2) weaponTemplate.deviation - some says it is "default deviation that is added to the weapons when bots fire them". So, if one set lower value, we'll get bots more accurate at long ranges. Perhaps, I should try this.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 13-09-2011, 00:09:52
I like the former of the 2. That way, bots will keep up fire and stand and fight at their best range. That I can live with.

And I didn't say, bots take cover better than humans. I meant bots play more like soldiers EXCEPT to do with cover to cover movement.

I would be happy to try your mod. I think its about time general infantry AI took a leap foward. Its been stalling since 2.26 and Remick's works for the 2.3 release.

I hope he's here to consider this tweak for the official build.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Ajs47951 on 13-09-2011, 02:09:04
I would love to see most of the AI tweaks in the official build. This would make it easier for newer players so they did not have to download anything more. And the AI  tweaks are the shit! ;D
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 13-09-2011, 11:09:00
...2) weaponTemplate.deviation - some says it is "default deviation that is added to the weapons when bots fire them". So, if one set lower value, we'll get bots more accurate at long ranges. Perhaps, I should try this.

If you want long range accuracy, just set your difficulty to maximum (there's no added deviation when set to max.).


Quote from: Outsider
The bot skill is used to see how big a part of the ai weapon deviation is used (there is a default value that most weapons use, so that's why you don't normally see it). Time is also involved. A bot that keeps shooting at the same target will have its deviation decreased. A bot skill of 1 results on no additional bot deviation.

The bots target the point that they see. They first try to see the centre of an object, if that fails, they try for the camera, and if that fails they try for a random position.

 - http://www.battlefieldsingleplayer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3357


You can take the above quote as gospel (I believe Outsider is/was a DICE employee)... ;)
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: gavrant on 13-09-2011, 17:09:38
When I said "some says", it was Outsider's words too. But I didn't know he is such a celebrity.

I'm afraid that by setting bots' skill to maximum (1.00?) I'll get a bunch of uber-riflemen from public servers, 1 shot 1 kill at any range. I'm used to 0.85 skill - a compromise between challenge and winning Sfakia for Germans single-handedly. Perhaps, this is the source of bots' inaccuracy at long ranges and it's time for me to raise their skill.

The main problem is testing all this stuff. We got some old and some new bugs in 2.4 singleplayer. E.g. good old Sfakia has a couple of new navmesh bugs (one of them occasionally traps half of team), Ramelle and PdH have "behind the enemy lines" spawn points, etc, etc, etc. These bugs will interfere with any fine-tuning of AI. So a wise move would be: eliminate bugs first, then fine-tuning.

@Djinn: Sorry, I misunderstood "sans" in bots and cover part.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 13-09-2011, 17:09:10
Not a problem.
I used to tweak bots to my own liking myself, back when we didn't have the auto-stuka horn accepted, smoke grenade code was new and Drawde's AI was still a mod...

These days I am so busy at work I just play it as is. But its important data, to hlep us understand our latitude for bot AI.

Happy modding  :)
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 14-09-2011, 11:09:25
At 1.0, it's not necessarily 1 shot, 1 kill at long range as the weapons themselves have deviation.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Solidsnake2234 on 10-12-2011, 17:12:47
2 Questions. 1: On some maps, like Point Du Hoc and the map based of the ending battle from "Saving Private Ryan" (forgot the name of the map), when you spawn, it spawns you behind that spawn point. Like if I click on the beach spawn on Point Du Hoc, it spawns me on a LVT. On the "Saving Private Ryan" like map, I click on the say the bridge spawn, it spans me all the way behind the Alamo spawn, farther away from the current front line on the map. WHy does this happen? 2:Why did they make the 2.4 update so that Muese River is the only singleplayer map in the update, and the other 3 or 4 new maps COOP/Multiplayer?
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Ts4EVER on 10-12-2011, 17:12:45
The back spawning is so you don't spawn in the middle of the action. Basically there are two possibilities: Either you respawn, get killed at once and wait again for the next spawn, or you respawn and have to walk 100m to the actual flag. The devs chose the second one.

You can play Eppeldorf in Coop mode.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Solidsnake2234 on 10-12-2011, 18:12:42
The back spawning is so you don't spawn in the middle of the action. Basically there are two possibilities: Either you respawn, get killed at once and wait again for the next spawn, or you respawn and have to walk 100m to the actual flag. The devs chose the second one.

You can play Eppeldorf in Coop mode.

Okay thx for the explanation, but theres one problem. On Point Du Hoc (64), the US AI Bots spawn directly at the first flag (Observation Bunker), yet the human player has to first either wait for the first flag to be taken, or use an LVT to get to the beach, and use one of the swapable classes thats on a destroyed LVT at the beach to use the hook to get over the wall. Why do the AI's spawn at the Bunker, when playes have to do all the above? And I know Eppeldorf can be played on COOP, but why not put the other maps added on into singleplayer or COOP as well?
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Eat Uranium on 10-12-2011, 19:12:05
And I know Eppeldorf can be played on COOP, but why not put the other maps added on into singleplayer or COOP as well?
Adding SP support to a map takes a long time and can only be done when the terrain and statics on that map are finalised.  There just wasn't the time to add it to those three maps (which were still receiving updates to statics until the last moment).
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Chad1992 on 12-01-2012, 22:01:15
Not sure if anyone else has talked about this or not, but why doesn't the commander work in Single player or Co-op?  Ill ask for arty or supplies and nothing happens.  It works in regular BF2.  Hope someone can explain.  ???
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Raziel on 13-01-2012, 08:01:04
Hi Trainz and welcome to the forums. AFAIK commander communications have been broken when FH2 changed the comm rose from the vanilla one. What I am sure is that bots don't obey your orders as SL because of this issue. Many of us here have tried to fix this but not one of us had the knowledge / time to complete the task!

@Cfodder: Cheers bud!
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 13-01-2012, 09:01:52
Long story short:

 - When DICE made the 1.5 patch for BF2, they broke the AI commander.

 - FH2 needs BF2 to be patched to 1.5 before installation.



@Raz: No, the 1.5 patch broke the commander, the FH2 commo-rose just broke the ability to communicate with the bots... ;)
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 13-01-2012, 13:01:13
Some discussion into seeing if commander assets is still accessible, but this is in the experimentation department, as is sniper bot vehicle and bot-selectable non-human selectable kits.

First thing to at least soften this blow is to see how we can get bots on arty getting remote cam and using that as their primary camera view. if we can do that, then human players, maybe eventually, even bots, can call in close air support and it will just as good as commander arty.

But we need another Drawde; someone who can take a hairbrained scheme and knows the code enough to find a work-around.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Chad1992 on 02-02-2012, 23:02:44
I have a question about the bots, why don't they aim their weapons?  In regular BF2 they seemed to, but now they jus load and shoot.  Any way to fix this?
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 02-02-2012, 23:02:01
Its a bug.

We still dont know why. But its on top of my list of things to fix...
But i'm not sure you should expect it ready for the next release.
We simply dont know why.

The G43 gunner does use ironsights sometimes, but no one else.

Its cosmetic, since bots dont need that to aim, but it does take ALOT from immersion.

If anyone understands this, please contact myself or Void on it.

We could totally use help here.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: blitzkrieg on 17-03-2012, 10:03:47
Hi guys! I am new to this awesome game, i totaly love it and think that this is the best fps game of ww2 probalby it is, it is quite real and amazing in game eperince, however i have a thing that is making me very unhappy, some maps I play in single player have bots, but they don't work, i have to change team to even get them visable, they mount vehicle's but they don't drive, i become the comander and order them to do things, they just sit on their pretty asses and... well, they begin to irritate me, half of my maps are like this=(

anyone now how to fix this?

and another question, can i make FH2 compatible with a joystick since I love to fly?

Thanks on advance!
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: LuckyOne on 17-03-2012, 14:03:03

and another question, can i make FH2 compatible with a joystick since I love to fly?


FH 2 works fine with a joystick AFAIK. I use my crappy one and it works after setting the controls in Options>Controls>Aircraft

About the bots issue, I'm not familiar with this as I don't play a lot of SP but have you tried it in COOP mode? Just go to Multiplayer>Create game, choose COOP gametype and set minimum required players to 1
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Michael Z Freeman on 17-03-2012, 16:03:24
Remember also that playing with the AI is a kind of an acquired taste or learnt art. It's funny as well. The AI is based on "fuzzy" logic rules. This means that playing with the AI is sort of a psychological art. I find that if I ignore things they won't do and just concentrate on whatever little thing I'm doing on the battlefield (sniping, covering a chosen point, etc) then the AI seems to "wakeup" and it all starts happening. They don't respond to being controlled. They respond to getting on with their own thing. In fact this is actually good training for MP where the same kinda rules apply; a player finds what they are good at and sticks to it and the rest just happens around them.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: cannonfodder on 18-03-2012, 10:03:31
...i have to change team to even get them visable, they mount vehicle's but they don't drive...

G'day mate.

Invisible bots? Sounds like something's broken, you might need to reinstall it (just FH2, not BF2)... :-\

Which version of FH do you have?
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: blitzkrieg on 21-03-2012, 15:03:38
2,4 but now i play coop instead, found out that respawn time went from 20 sec to 1 sec, i imetietly changed=)
now i'm looking for someone to make a kill-dust effect.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Michael Z Freeman on 21-03-2012, 17:03:07
Trying SP with a multicore machine (server and client on different cores (http://gateway.djbarney.org/node/80)) is worth trying cus you can have 64 bots without getting slow downs. Can be a bit fiddly but I'm working on and add-on that I will publish on Moddb. This will have a batch file/shortcut for each map that will allow quick starting SP for multicore systems.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: tiger1elite on 29-06-2012, 23:06:12
I have a number of questions... 1.) I can not seem to figure out how to use long range artillery effectively. Sure I can get in an start firing, but the other team seems to be able to knock out elemnts of my team from impossible distances with great accuracy. How is that possible? 2.) No matter what I do, I cannot win Purple Heart Lane (64) on the Allied team. My team usually easily takes the first three outposts along the causeway, but after that, it's a hopeless slaughter. between the Flak 18 on the right side and the MG34 Lafeyette on the left, it's a comedy of spawn, die, spawn, die, spawn, die, etc. Any advice? 3.) Lastly, on Lebisey (64), there seems to be a point at which any crossing of this point (just in front of the first line of Axis defense) by either side will cause the game to crash. When this game was installed on my other, older computer, I had the exact same problem. Thanks.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Turkish007 on 30-06-2012, 17:06:55
3.) Lastly, on Lebisey (64), there seems to be a point at which any crossing of this point (just in front of the first line of Axis defense) by either side will cause the game to crash.

I have the same problem too. Oh, and also when I tried to load Alam Halfa it crashes to desktop at the end of the loading part.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Winstonkalkaros-FIN on 05-08-2012, 09:08:29
To be honest it's almoust perfect. Only when I create a coop server, the bot ratio is fucked. I never get it balanced, and there are way too much bots (sometimes over 70). What should I do in order to play for example 8 vs 8? And how to get the bot ratio properly working, since the create local server menu does not help at all?
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: titsmcgee852 on 05-08-2012, 13:08:40
I usually try for 64 bots, and put that ratio on 65. Maybe try that :)
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: djinn on 06-08-2012, 08:08:08
Default ratio is 50:50 for 48 bots.

Set your total bot count ingame to 16, and you should have 8:8

We fixed the slider issue. Its only when you manually set your bot count to above the default, the ratio gets out of whack.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: ksl94 on 24-02-2013, 20:02:26
Has the Operation Hyacinth crash been fixed yet? Currently, that beautiful map is unplayable  :-\ .
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Turkish007 on 24-02-2013, 20:02:28
Its not worth playing, the bots dont use the vehicles  :(
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: ksl94 on 25-02-2013, 17:02:08
It's a great map nonetheless and if it's only for the beautiful lighting andd the fact that navmeshing is quite good.  ;)
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Turkish007 on 25-02-2013, 18:02:27
Yes, the map itself is really well designed, and the AI is nice, but it would be lot better if they used vehicles
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: ksl94 on 25-02-2013, 18:02:04
I totally agree with you on all points.
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: ComradeYakova on 09-08-2018, 17:08:36
Being able to play the Russian/Polish maps would be really good!Especially Kursk,Stalingrad,Kharkov,Liberation of Warsaw,Invasion of Warsaw,Battle of Sevastopool etc.

Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: lordpontiff on 20-11-2018, 17:11:41
Is it possible to call arty strikes using the binoculars in singleplayer maps?
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: tempest on 25-11-2018, 06:11:51
Not really.  If you call in a strike, then it'll be available for you to use, but the AI won't make use to it.  In other words, if you use your binoculars and then hop onto a mortar, it should be there.  I play coop with one other person, and we can use this to good effect.

The AI is pretty proficient with the arty, but it is sometimes a shame that they can't drop it where you want them to!  Probably just an engine limitation.

If you look real hard, I think there actually IS a level where you can do off-map artillery, IIRC... probably one of those older desert maps...
Title: Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
Post by: Michael Z Freeman on 29-06-2019, 22:06:12
I probably missed the new release for this but I did not know these two extra SP/Coop maps has been added in the patch. so I wanted to give some feed back for the new SP/Coop maps in FH 2.55 ...

Lenino .... friggin amazing ! The bots are all in the trenches AND getting tanks from the rear lines. Sometimes on SP/Coop maps all the tanks end up unused at the back of the lines. Not here. The entire thing erupts into a fierce fire fight and even though I got to the last point before the final German point I was constantly thrown back just when I thought I was going to get an easy win.

Studienka ... LOTS of tanks again. Did not have as much time to play this but it reminds me of an old Battlegroup Frontlines map that has a large bridge. So far looks very good for SP/Coop apart from the AI getting stuck at the long bridge and you have to them a rear shove up the back side and then they start going across  :D ... I don't know they might use it sometimes as I did not play for very long.

Thanks for the hard work that undoubtedly goes into the navmeshing for these maps  8)