Author Topic: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48  (Read 26690 times)

Offline Slayer

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #285 on: 24-08-2012, 15:08:10 »
Is there any possibility to get more than 1 picture in a post?
Of course, you can upload them to imageshack or a different imagehoster and then link them directly into your post by using tags. You can also click on the small Mona Lisa picture on the bottom left corner of all options you get right above the reply box when you type your replies: it will give you the tags without having to type them.

To put it simple: You don´t control the situation any longer. Most of the time it comes down to luck.
To put it simple: you and some others aren't satisfied with the changes and you made it clear in this thread. But it isn't about luck. That it isn't about luck has been stated several times by a dev and you still believe that you're right?
« Last Edit: 24-08-2012, 15:08:30 by Slayer »

Offline Butcher

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #286 on: 24-08-2012, 15:08:26 »
To put it simple: you and some others aren't satisfied with the changes and you made it clear in this thread. But it isn't about luck. That it isn't about luck has been stated several times by a dev and you still believe that you're right?
No, I can´t predict the outcome of many situations. I´m taking into account the damage loss over range, possible angles and the special armour criteria of tanks when being hit. Those criteria being for example the M4A3 taking two shots to the frontal hull without any angle- or range-modifier with the 75mm/L48.

And guess what... even then the outcome is not the one I thought it would be, like the issues when hitting the flat, unangled side of a Sherman at 50 metres and not killing it.

I call that luck.

Pre 2.45 I could very well tell, whether I had a chance to win an engagment or not and then choose to avoid it or fight. Now I can´t tell... I try my best to consider the mentioned variables and then pray(you know, luck) that everything works out; but often it doesn´t.

Edit: Look at Gotkais third screenshot and his description of the situation, where he shot that Sherman with a Panther and needed two hits for that. Neither range, nor the anglemod, nor the characteristics of the Sherman should end in two shots being needed to kill that thing. THAT is what I define as luck here. For me there is simply no explanation for this.
« Last Edit: 24-08-2012, 16:08:27 by Butcher »
He got banned for our sins. He was not the member FH forums deserved, he was the member we needed.

Offline |7th|Nighthawk

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #287 on: 24-08-2012, 16:08:56 »
Just another quick example today on Vossenak: FlaK18 vs  M8 Greyhound at ca.30m at an angle of ca.70° resulted in the Greyhound burning. That's not exactly how I espect the 88mm to work.
"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that..."

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #288 on: 24-08-2012, 16:08:40 »
Butcher points it out quiet well. You quiet often have to pray that your shot will kill him also from good angles and ranges - just look at Gotkai's first screen shot that should have been a kill without a doubt. Would you spend some more time on the server Slayer, then you would propably know, how surprising and frustrating some of those problems can be. But ofcourse people who spent over hundreds or thousends of hours on the servers will try to tell you bullshit  ::)

It is like running against a wall. I would rather believe a player like Horstpetersens or Gotkai with around 3 hours a day average and take this feeback with care, instead of just rejecting such information with "You just don't like the new system so take it as it is or leave". There are so damn obvoius problems in the new build, that I ask myself what you are doing while beta testing? Do you honestly want to tell me, that noone noticed the immune biker or Pak bug? People are actually using the bike to break through the lines with the fact in mind that they only can get killed by exlposions and are in godmode for several seconds.
Same as vehicles loosing all momentum and being trapped on one spot. It is so damn frustarting when you can't retreat in dangerous situations. I noticed those problems after 10 minutes of playing 2.45 btw.
As much as I respect and appreciate the work that the devs are doing - and I am really looking forward to the eastern front, I have to say that I don't like how you take feedback. I can only offer you my help with applying as a beta tester to investigate some of the problems or here in the forum with writing posts. But it is up to you, what you do with the information.

It is not a question what we believe, we experience and see those things happen. Any question?  ::)

Offline Slayer

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #289 on: 24-08-2012, 18:08:20 »
Edit: Look at Gotkais third screenshot and his description of the situation, where he shot that Sherman with a Panther and needed two hits for that. Neither range, nor the anglemod, nor the characteristics of the Sherman should end in two shots being needed to kill that thing. THAT is what I define as luck here. For me there is simply no explanation for this.
I looked at it. Yes, it sounds a bit odd, I have already said before in this thread that some stuff sounds buggy. But I want to come back on your "luck" thing once more: is a situation like that always two shots needed for the Panther or is it sometimes 1, sometimes 2 and sometimes maybe even more than two? I mean in similar situations, so equal angle, equal range, etc.

Would you spend some more time on the server Slayer, then you would propably know, how surprising and frustrating some of those problems can be. But ofcourse people who spent over hundreds or thousends of hours on the servers will try to tell you bullshit  ::)
Why do you always come up with this "argument"? I can throw in Taz here:
But for the record, since you decided to make this personal I have been around a lot longer than you have and have played with this system longer than you have as well as tanked in general longer than you have.
Remember, we played with this system for almost a year in testing before you could play with it for even one hour, so pls stop your "experience" BS. And then after it was tested, it was decided to keep it like this. Of course public feedback is appreciated, it's not like devs never read this. But to keep on repeating the same stuff over and over again, even after it has been explained by a dev, that's just stubborn.

Quote
There are so damn obvoius problems in the new build, that I ask myself what you are doing while beta testing?
Wow, you really sound like a spoiled brat here, maybe you should start playing commercial games which come out every year with releases full of bugs and mistakes. Only difference is that you have to pay 60 Euros for those games and FH2 is free. I understand that you don't like my replies (I'm not a dev btw), because they don't hold what you want to hear. Well, I don't like the way you give feedback, namely repeating the same stuff over and over again, like I said above. I'll try to give you an insight:

In beta test sessions, there are issues which need testing. Then we test that stuff. Sometimes we can't test stuff because certain stuff is broken (excuse me for using the word stuff a lot, but I'm not willing/allowed to leak anything), and then it has to get fixed by a dev first. But since devs always have to do A LOT of stuff, things can get delayed. Then sometimes it gets postponed, or forgotten for a while because everyone is very busy. Then when it gets tested again, something else might get broken and the whole loop starts over again. As you might see now, it is a very time consuming process, and yes, things can get overlooked.

Then there is also the public to deal with. Yes, broken stuff like the biker has been noted, but to fix it the release of 2.45 would have been delayed even further and guys like you were already screaming "where is ma next patch?!?"

So before you start throwing stuff around like "What are you guys actually doing?", please put a little bit more trust in the devs and the betatesters.

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #290 on: 24-08-2012, 19:08:21 »
I know that it sounds harsh, but please answer me a little question? How many beta testers are you and how can you overlook a bug like the one with the Pak and the bike, things that you notice with a full server within 10 minutes or less. Why didn't you recognice that St. Vith is unplayable and so damn unblanced that it is really fun breaking for one team. How can you overlook that the Shreck needs three shots for a simple Sherman and clearly deals too few damage. Why do you give the german team less tanks on St. Vith though you know that you tweaked those tanks to be weaker or even as the Shermans and didn't think about to give them some Engineer kits. This is just out of my logic. Same as the 16 player version of Brest. Who forgot to implement at least one Stielhandgranate into the normal rifle kit of the attacking german team.

These were things that worked very well in previous version and only just small examples, but they are the reason why I am so frustarted and I am not the only one.

And ofcourse I will ask you, how much time you spend on the server to base your arguments on the current public version of the mod. We are talking about the 2.45 version that all people are playing currently and trust me, the response of the players on the server isn't that good. Do you want to know, how often I read that a map is hated or they call it shit? It is just sad ...

*Joins the WaW custom map event*

Offline Slayer

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #291 on: 24-08-2012, 21:08:04 »
I know that it sounds harsh, but please answer me a little question? How many beta testers are you
It varies per session.

and how can you overlook a bug like the one with the Pak and the bike, things that you notice with a full server within 10 minutes or less.
1) In testsessions, we next to never get a full server
2) Like I said, the bike was reported, but it wasn't deemed important enough to fix it before 2.45 release. At least, that is how I recall it.

Why didn't you recognice that St. Vith is unplayable and so damn unblanced that it is really fun breaking for one team.
In test sessions, it wasn't so unbalanced. Out of the rounds we tested gameplay, enough were won by axis (total victories too, I might add) to call it balanced.

How can you overlook that the Shreck needs three shots for a simple Sherman and clearly deals too few damage.
Personally, I didn't test the Schreck. Dunno about others.

Why do you give the german team less tanks on St. Vith though you know that you tweaked those tanks to be weaker or even as the Shermans and didn't think about to give them some Engineer kits. This is just out of my logic.
The mapper decides the vehicle layout and the kit setup. The things you mention were discussed, but the mapper wanted it like this. Again, this is what I recall.

Same as the 16 player version of Brest. Who forgot to implement at least one Stielhandgranate into the normal rifle kit of the attacking german team.
I didn't test Brest 16, most of the time we don't have time to test smaller maps. There is too much new stuff.

These were things that worked very well in previous version and only just small examples, but they are the reason why I am so frustarted and I am not the only one.
Personally, there are various things in 2.45 I don't like. I discussed them internally, but that's all I can do. But I'm sure if everything would stay the same, that other people (the ones who aren't complaining now) would speak up and say the mod has become boring.

And ofcourse I will ask you, how much time you spend on the server to base your arguments on the current public version of the mod. We are talking about the 2.45 version that all people are playing currently and trust me, the response of the players on the server isn't that good. Do you want to know, how often I read that a map is hated or they call it shit? It is just sad ...
1) Like I said (I'm sorry, sometimes I get the impression that you don't read my posts carefully, I have to repeat myself regularly), this version has been in testing for a very long time. So I know how it works. I knew it before you did. So the "experience" argument doesn't hold, sorry. It actually comes across as a bit dumb.
2) When I joined the 130 player server a few times, the ranting was extreme. The entire mod was flawed, everything was BS, etc, etc. Still, those players kept coming and played round after round. Do I really have to believe what those people rant in chat? hile their behaviour shows that they actually like to play FH2? Why were they on the server if they didn't like it? And the 130 player server only is one example. It happens on every server. Many, and I mean MANY people just love to complain. For some it means that they are "cool" or whatever. You won't read many positive comments, because they are less aggressive and thus less noticeable. Also, people who are satisfied tend not to type that every 3 minutes in chat, while people who aren't satisfied (some of them are professional haters, I might add), WILL type that "This sucks" or "This map blows" or whatever every 3 minutes. It is kind of immature, and those people tend to chase away new players too, thus helping the mod into oblivion. Those people would really help the mod by posting in the feedback threads here on the forums. And then not like "St Vith sucks!", but with wellfounded arguments. Otherwise, it will get ignored and then others, like you, will say that "the devs don't listen". You see the catch 22?

Disclaimer: this is my personal opinion. It does not reflect the opinon of the devteam, and/or the beta testers as a whole. © Slayer, 2012

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #292 on: 25-08-2012, 00:08:22 »
Thank you for the information. Makes some things more clear for me ;)

Offline McCloskey

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #293 on: 25-08-2012, 00:08:11 »
Do you have to hit the Blitz in the cabin with the bazooka to destroy it or was it just the angle mod/damage modifer/whatfrickinever at work? I shot at it from barely 20 meters away and it was hardly smoking...

Offline Slayer

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #294 on: 25-08-2012, 00:08:18 »
Do you have to hit the Blitz in the cabin with the bazooka to destroy it or was it just the angle mod/damage modifer/whatfrickinever at work? I shot at it from barely 20 meters away and it was hardly smoking...
Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: you have to hit the engine parts in all soft skinned vehicles, this goes for AT rifles, zooks, etc.

Offline ajappat

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #295 on: 25-08-2012, 07:08:25 »
slayer how is it even possible that you talk about something where you obviously don't have any idea ?
You played 237h total, 50h in a tank and wan't to tell the really experienced guys how the game works?
Well what about if I tell you that I agree 100% with Slayer? Enough experience for you?

Offline Horstpetersens

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #296 on: 25-08-2012, 08:08:12 »
lol no. not a bit.
77h in a tank.
r u even serious?
sry no offend but with 500h playtime i considered myself still a nub.

« Last Edit: 25-08-2012, 08:08:57 by Horstpetersens »

Offline [F|H]Taz18

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #297 on: 25-08-2012, 08:08:46 »
lol no. not a bit.
77h in a tank.
r u even serious?

Time on the awards site doesn't represent experience as A) the awards have only been around a year and B) people do not always play on servers running the official awards.

Offline Horstpetersens

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #298 on: 25-08-2012, 08:08:51 »
yeah fuck all this shit, it does not say anything.
playing on a server with 10 people surly is representative.
« Last Edit: 25-08-2012, 09:08:05 by Horstpetersens »

Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #299 on: 25-08-2012, 09:08:18 »
U mad bro?