Tree resistance

[Kelmola]

we also lacks multi-kill with one AP shell ...

Happened by accident to me the other day.

[DaWorg!]

Should tank HE shell go through fences, and trees too?

[buddycole46]

I do like to use HE and aim at the tops of tree trunks to get an airburst effect that works pretty well against infantry when you dont know exactly where they are or if the terrain prevents from direct fire.

[Slayer]

same changes like some version ago where you werent able to drive though fences and now you can.
same could go for small trees, sandsacks, woodenbars ect, woul dmake the game smoother for tanks

No, they are not the same at all. What you describe is collision, and what is asked for in this thread is penetrable materials. I'm no techy, but I know these two are different, and the latter is more work, maybe even WAY more work.

[IrishReloaded]

well I was talking about driving, not about shooting, I took this thread and abused it for my own ideas hrhr. So my comment is about "driving through little trees, sandbags woodenbars ect.

[Paasky]

same changes like some version ago where you werent able to drive though fences and now you can.
same could go for small trees, sandsacks, woodenbars ect, woul dmake the game smoother for tanks

No, they are not the same at all. What you describe is collision, and what is asked for in this thread is penetrable materials. I'm no techy, but I know these two are different, and the latter is more work, maybe even WAY more work.

Penetrable materials are just collision objects which have been told to let certain attacking materials go through them. Every object that interacts with the world has a collision file, and certain materials attached to each face: everything from fingers to tree stumps to battleships. These materials are all in a huge index, I believe FH2 has 200-300 different materials to choose from (cloth, water, tank_50mm_skirt, wood, concrete, etc). Every time material a & material b collide, they can either go through, hit and do damage, or hit and do nothing. In all other aspects they are completely the same. (See Lainer's map with the nuke which' explosion goes through all buildings & trees)

If you want to be really silly you could change the materials of all trees to be 128mm AP rounds and have tanks explode upon contact (not sure if possible but probably)

[therenas]

Well I'm just fine with HE rounds as they explode on contact, but solid AP rounds (not HEAT) should have no problem penetrating trees... I'm not talking about giant redwoods, just about normal trees in German forests... a high velocity anti tank gun which was made to penetrate over 100mm of solid steel without losing its lethal power should have no problem with that.
I do not talk about infantry weapons... I can live with that, but its annoying with tank combat... especially if you hit trees in sniper mode because the gun is blocked by a tree on the side which you cannot see through the scope... same applies to fences or other soft targets...

[Slayer]

Penetrable materials are just collision objects which have been told to let certain attacking materials go through them. Every object that interacts with the world has a collision file, and certain materials attached to each face: everything from fingers to tree stumps to battleships. These materials are all in a huge index, I believe FH2 has 200-300 different materials to choose from (cloth, water, tank_50mm_skirt, wood, concrete, etc). Every time material a & material b collide, they can either go through, hit and do damage, or hit and do nothing. In all other aspects they are completely the same. (See Lainer's map with the nuke which' explosion goes through all buildings & trees)

If you want to be really silly you could change the materials of all trees to be 128mm AP rounds and have tanks explode upon contact (not sure if possible but probably)

OK, but my assumption that penetrable materials is more work than just collision is true then, as it is collision plus something. And that is always more work

[Paasky]

No, not at all. For the fences they prob redid the collision meshes for every model, as you still hit a bump while driving over them. I doubt that can be done material-wise. To make a tent penetrable by weapons you just need to change a few numbers in the materials, or change the material in the .tweak file to cloth_penetrable (if such a thing doesn't exist yet, create it).

Materials: like a huge (~300x300 grids) excel spreadsheet with settings on what happens when two of them collide.
Collisions: 0-4 3d models per object which tell the game the physical dimensions of the object (one vs bullets, one vs soldiers, one vs vehicles+statics+ground, one for AI)
Object material settings: 1-20 numbers in it's .tweak file that tell what materials are used for which parts on the collision meshes.

These are fairly simple changes code wise but gameplaywise it's a different story. I can understand having buildings (even tents) bulletproof to act as bunkers vs artillery & HE-spam, but stuff like wooden/metal fences & haystacks should be penetrable.

[jan_kurator]

...haystacks should be penetrable.

weren't they penetrable before 2.4? I think they were although for mgs and now they are not, because I hide yesterday behind one from tank mg... 

[Beaufort]

As much as it hurts to type this, but the bomb shelter tents need to stay the way they are. They play too important of a role, especially in the desert maps.

What about trenches and bunkers digged in the sand ? Apart from kidney ridge, that may need one more trench at the top, most flags have enough of those to take cover from ennemy HE...

[Natty]

Battlefield 2 is a highly static game, that is the reason why many many materials will never behave as you'd expect it to do, or as you are growing acustomed to by playing modern (current) games.

In a static environment, it is confusing and upright annoying for a player to sometimes be in cover, and sometimes take damage from bullets passing through materials which he believes will protect him.

However, for game play's sake, and for the purpose of actually making guns like heavy machine guns be more useful, I also feel that we should allow their bullets to pass through certain materials, like thin wooden plates and fences. This is on a to-do list for review, we'll see what happens if me or anyone else gets the time to do this.

For explosions, that's another issue and I'll let Kev4000 handle that. To some degree I agree that a 250kg bomb that lands on the roof of a house should kill anyone inside, on the other hand, since we have a static environment, Im uncertain about how that will be experienced by the guy inside.
Personally, I much rather have consistent and clearly communicated laws of the world, even if they're "unrealistic" than to have semi-consistent and poorly communicated laws, even if they in some instances could be perceived as slightly more "realistic".


We will see what we do in the future.

[Kelmola]

The bomb/heavy arty shell falling on a house is a borderline case, but the nuke-proof tents are clearly stretching the suspension of disbelief.

[LuckyOne]

Battlefield 2 is a highly static game, that is the reason why many many materials will never behave as you'd expect it to do, or as you are growing acustomed to by playing modern (current) games.

I never understood that argument. Most current games also have static maps/objects that rarely change in the their flags/objectives layouts, and they still allow for full bullet penetration and destroyable enviroment... You just have to learn which stuff is cover, and which is only concealment... And of course there are not a lot of things that can protect you from an artillery barrage...

[hitm4k3r]

I think, that it should be implemented, that you can fire AP shells through trees and wooden fences. It is sometimes really annoying when you successfuly flank out an enemy tank and then there is this shabby, little, tinny wooden fence or tree that prevents you from giving him the rest. This feels much more unrealistic, than wooden material that can be penetrated. This really kills the immersion in some situations. I think it is good, if you make wooden plates or fences/doors etc. penetretable by the bullets of at least rifles and mg's. I think, that this will add alot of more interesting firefights, since your cover is in some situations only of "visual consistence". People will have to learn, what offers really cover and what not. It will be only a matter of time, same as when you try to get used to a new map or weapon - so I see no problem there.