Development progress?

[TASSER]

Remember the days when we used to talk about, well, the game. Like "whoa this would be a cool historically accurate inclusion to the mod" or "I recently found a cool tactic doing this!" Cause I don't...

It would be nice if we could have discussions that don't turn into:
1. The tank system, or
2. 762 (honestly nothing against the server, but good God I'm sick of seemingly every thread turn into a 762 battle).

Absolutely fantastic mod. Forgotten Hope has honestly been a big part of my life for years, ever since 0.7. Devs, you've made an incredible game and I look forward to all the great things to come.

God these forums are depressing though...

[Chad1992]

@shitmaker, no I don't encourage cheating, actually it really pisses me off.  There I answered your question.

[Erwin]

Remember the days when we used to talk about, well, the game. Like "whoa this would be a cool historically accurate inclusion to the mod" or "I recently found a cool tactic doing this!" Cause I don't...

It would be nice if we could have discussions that don't turn into:
1. The tank system, or
2. 762 (honestly nothing against the server, but good God I'm sick of seemingly every thread turn into a 762 battle).

Absolutely fantastic mod. Forgotten Hope has honestly been a big part of my life for years, ever since 0.7. Devs, you've made an incredible game and I look forward to all the great things to come.

God these forums are depressing though...

The tank system will be talked unless it gets fixed. It's IMO the only thing wrong in 2.45. It makes the game unplayable sometimes. It gets really frustrating at some point and you want to quit. We appreciate all the works and time devs put into this but sometimes things tend to end badly. This is one of them and there is no point in defending it. Angle mod is by far, is the most hated thing in 2.45.

Is it too hard to give Allied more tanks while giving Axis a few heavies. Make AT guns stronger. Make Handheld AT stronger as they were supposed to be. If Allies had retreated everytime they saw a Tiger or Panther, Germans would win the Normandy battle in a month. German Heavies are not indestructible. I had no problems destroying them in FH1. Because you had the means to destroy them. We didn't have this kind of maps.(So many bottlenecks-invitation for camping) no teamwork whatsoever, people waiting at base for vehicles while their team gets destroyed. I mean the mod itself, is not bad. It's the bad choices the devs had to make because of changing player base. The game has to become CODish because of the hotheaded boys who would cry over for almost anything.

People these days tend to go around with the motto " Meh if it's not like this than imma gonna play this" and I think this effects development.

What the devs really should do, is to get back their level of development like in FH1. Get your own decisions. You can't make everybody happy. You can't make a change when people wants something changed.

[hitm4k3r]

Erwin, your post is a bit contradictory. On one hand you say that devs should do what they want and on the other hand you call the 2.45 tanking system the most hated thing in the game. This tanking system was a development desicion by the devs to prolong the battle communication as stated several times.

There comes always a point when things can go wrong and then communication helps. Gavrant made alot of changes to current maps, that will make them a bit more balanced and enjoyable for both teams for the next version. These changes are a result of communication and discussions between betatesters and devs to find the best solutions. Maybe Gavrant can give some further information, as I don't know what I am allowed to tell or not.

@Chad: thanks for the answer 

[Erwin]

The angle mod is the result of people bitching about heavy tanks getting killed by the shots to their topside. Nothing else.

[Slayer]

Gavrant, Slayer told me that I make my opponents look like "dumbasses" - his words, not mine. Did I call them "dumbasses"? No.

Apparently youy don't see why I say that. You ridicule the other participants in a discussion with you by saying stuff like "Is it that hard to udnerstand?" implying that they are too dumb to see what you mean, by your standards. Instead of trying to improve this, you simply continue (with stuff like "when you are not so often on a server, you won't notice this hiding in your corner, but when you play quite often and walk with open eyes over the maps, that gets something different" - again implying that all people with a different opinion play on your server hiding in a corner with their eyes closed...), making the impression that you a) don't understand it (that would be a surprise to me) b) you don't want to change it (which means you're stubborn).

Gavrant called me "your opponent". In fact, like I said, I agree with a lot you say about the mod. I just dislike the way you argue, as it is a cheap way to try and gain the upper hand.

as I don't know what I am allowed to tell or not.

You can easily find out by reading the internal forums: Testing Discussions/Information Regarding Leaking.

It would be nice if we could have discussions that don't turn into:
1. The tank system, or
2. 762 (honestly nothing against the server, but good God I'm sick of seemingly every thread turn into a 762 battle).

Yes, indeed that would be nice. I have linked to the tank thread many times already, but it doesn't work. The people who have a problem with the damage over range modifier* somehow get satisfaction out of posting their stuff here over and over and over again.

*= some call it the angle mod, while with the angle mod itself is not really that much wrong, and others go even further and say "the tank system" is wrong, like everything considering tanks is broken now - but this is all the result of people talking about stuff which they don't really know about, but when that's posted people just don't want to accept that and are insulted.

[x4fun ODIUM]

You could let 5hitm4k3r off the hook here Slayer, starting to pick on him over and over does not do much to pacify the situation either. Or you guys can talk that through in all length via PM.

About the angle mod: Yesterday I drove a Pz IVH on Bastogne, had to fire frontally on an American captured German EDITED Sdkfz. 7 251 APC at a distance of roughly 50m (across the street). 2 shells 75mm AP bounced off it's frontal engine cover, it started to smoke (so I must have done something) and the 3rd shell AP killed it. So I presume that the angle of the my shell to the engine cover was so small that it "semi bounced off".

Question is, if this is intended, shall I only fire on APCs with HE (not always working so well either) to kill lightly armored vehicles with my tank?
Or is it not working as planned (as in "something IS wrong with angles and deflection")?

Why we keep bringing up that stuff - you know the saying "Constant dripping wears the stone."
We just want to make it heard that it is a problem that disturbes and scares away many players.
If someone has to be the annoying forum dude that keeps talking about it until it is improved,
I'll happily play the part, and so will 5hitm4k3r. We're not going for popularity here,
we want to see the mod improve.

[Lightning]

The SdKfz 7 doesn't even have anglemod enabled...

Panzer IV fires 75mmL48-AP-Projectile if I'm not mistaken, which is material 328 and does 125 base damage at under 10 metres and 49 base damage at 600 metres. The SdKfz 7 body consists of material 121 "tank_10mm" and has 125 hitpoints. Damage amplifier of material 328 against 121 is 17.25, so the minimum amount of damage that can be done is 49 * 17.25, which is 845.25, well above the vehicles maximum hitpoints.

Other materials used in the SdKfz 7 are Cloth 1016, AutoGlass 1018, Grnd_Tank_Tracks 86 and Rubber 102. Damage amplifiers of material 328 against these materials are 0, 0, 1 and 17.25.

Likely you hit the first shot against cloth or glass, doing no damage and the second shot against tracks, doing a little less than 125 damage.

[katakulli]

    So, one page on topic but 15 pages of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAvf-lyAF0o ?
 Dear EpicFoodEpic i apologize for the fh community. 

[x4fun ODIUM]

The SdKfz 7 doesn't even have anglemod enabled...

EDIT: My mistake, I was firing at a Sdkfz. 251 APC. I am sorry.

[Butcher]

2.4 tanking was quite good. 2.45 tanking is not. What exactly did happen between those patches? I don´t know what you did exactly to the angle-mod. But I know you added a range modifier. I don´t get why that´s even in game at those short distances.

You combat vehicles which are about 400 meters away ("fog of war"). The penetration is set at 500 meters. I´m fine with that - it was like that in 2.4. But why was a modifier for the range needed? I could understand such a thing if we didn´t have "fog of war" and could actually look a kilometer far - but we can´t. Thus I think the range modifier wasn´t needed at all. Now you can´t kill tanks that are 300 meters away. The situation is silly as the tank that´s hit shrugs of the shot as if it was rather 3km away (aka taking less and insignificant damage).

[Slayer]

You could let 5hitm4k3r off the hook here Slayer, starting to pick on him over and over does not do much to pacify the situation either. Or you guys can talk that through in all length via PM.

I'm not "picking on him", but OK, I'll be the wiser guy and ignore his "arguing" until he improves it.

Why we keep bringing up that stuff - you know the saying "Constant dripping wears the stone."

And that's where you guys go wrong. The devteam isn't a stone. Once more: the complaints are heard, it is understood, it has been brought up internally. Now it's up to them to see if they want to change it, and how.

We just want to make it heard that it is a problem that disturbes and scares away many players.

There are many reasons why players move on. I myself had a long break from FH2 just because I didn't want to play games for a while. Now I picked it up again and so have some others. Sure, there will be some players who quit FH2 because of the range modifier, but there are 1000 other reasons why the community is not as big as before. So pls don't assume that it is all because of this, unless you can come up with hard facts, for example in an independent survey among ex-FH2 players.

If someone has to be the annoying forum dude that keeps talking about it until it is improved,
I'll happily play the part, and so will 5hitm4k3r. We're not going for popularity here,
we want to see the mod improve.

Yet you push so hard that you are overdoing it, eventually even risking the opposite. I'm really sorry you guys can't see that.

[LuckyOne]

2.4 tanking was quite good. 2.45 tanking is not. What exactly did happen between those patches? I don´t know what you did exactly to the angle-mod. But I know you added a range modifier. I don´t get why that´s even in game at those short distances.

You combat vehicles which are about 400 meters away ("fog of war"). The penetration is set at 500 meters. I´m fine with that - it was like that in 2.4. But why was a modifier for the range needed? I could understand such a thing if we didn´t have "fog of war" and could actually look a kilometer far - but we can´t. Thus I think the range modifier wasn´t needed at all. Now you can´t kill tanks that are 300 meters away. The situation is silly as the tank that´s hit shrugs of the shot as if it was rather 3km away (aka taking less and insignificant damage).

All true, but we have to remember, most vehicle maps are scaled down. And because of the limits of the engine we can't have true combat ranges. Yes, the range modifier is overdone, but it's not exactly totally wrong in the FH 2 portrayal of vehicle combat. I think an appropriate reduction so that tanks can take a few shots on the average fog edge ranges could work ok, and still feel reasonably realistic.

[Mudzin]

The SdKfz 7 doesn't even have anglemod enabled...

Ah, that's something new to me... So you implemented anglemod to specific vehicles. If yes, can sb enlighten me what was the reason of implementing this anglemod to APCs, trucks when they should be destroyed by everything from every angle with 1 shot? 

[jan_kurator]

But I know you added a range modifier. I don´t get why that´s even in game at those short distances.

if beta testers' opinions would really matter it probably would be removed in the next internal update after the one it was introduced in.