Author Topic: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections  (Read 35197 times)

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #345 on: 24-04-2012, 12:04:16 »
...Just close your borders and revert to the guilder...
...As always, the Conservatives will win and then everyone is fucked...

LOL, going back to the Guilder now is the worst advice ever, Sheik. We struggle with a deficit of almost 4% and then we also have to ditch the Euro and get our own currency back? That would easily kick the deficit up to 5%, maybe 6%.

The Conservatives will win as always? If you mean the liberals who actually are conservatives: this was the first cabinet led by those guys in almost 100 years.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline Gezoes

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #346 on: 24-04-2012, 15:04:15 »
I already know what to vote. Been voting it for years. SP.
 
@Fuchs: The babyboomers are spread out now, but mostly VVD now, correct. The PvdA is too soft for my taste, but I like them big so they don't drift to the right. I have a big problem with the people that voted VVD and PVV last time and got this kabinet into this position.

They represent a nasty, egoistic, paranoid sentiment. I'm not denying I have these thoughts myself, of course I do from time to time. It's human. However, I take a good hard look at my bookshelves and propaganda posters, and slap myself. People are increasingly failing in that.

Try this at a birthday or any gathering. "Hey, what if we threw out all the Maroccans?" Quite a few will jump with joy at the idea. About 2 seconds later, you can tell who's seriously pondering it. Then say: "That's deportation". Watch their faces shrivel with hypocritical denial, dito anger and a sudden total lack of arguments.

Brrrrrr... fifth columnists.

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Offline th_battleaxe

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #347 on: 24-04-2012, 15:04:17 »
I don't know a lot about politics in detail in belgium, besides that it is fucked up. Do some (right, nationalist) parties still want to split your country ? Have you guys personally problems with the different or maybe just pseudo-different cultures in belgium?
And what are the parties opinions at the moment. Does the majority of the parties want it to split or 50/50 or what is going on ?

Sorry for that many questions but I lost the overview over time and I am interested if belgium is going to exist the way it does today in the future.
Well, truth is we don't really know what the hell is going on ourselves, the majority of voters has been neglected and we are now ruled by a minority with support of the Italian maffia from Mons. N-VA got about 40% of the votes 2 years ago and there have been rumours going around that the traditional parties want to make a cordon sanitaire around N-VA, i.e. banning it to the opposition for eternity.
The great Irony is that the Walloons themselves came with the idea of splitting the country, albeit satirical, the N-VA has no real plans of splitting, they want to try a confederacy first.And if the country would ever split, Wallonia would become a third world country with only FN Herstal as the major industry. And the Walloons are in a whole lot of trouble now because of the apparent selling of arms to rogue states like Libya, Syria and whatnot.

 your reply embodies the issues that surround multi-party systems that are based upon proportional representation. The right to vote is a privilege not a right and many, many, people the world over cannot be bothered to actually exercise that privilege.
in Belgium, voting is not a privilege, it's a nuisance, and it's mandatory
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Offline Fuchs

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #348 on: 24-04-2012, 17:04:11 »
I already know what to vote. Been voting it for years. SP.
 
@Fuchs: The babyboomers are spread out now, but mostly VVD now, correct. The PvdA is too soft for my taste, but I like them big so they don't drift to the right. I have a big problem with the people that voted VVD and PVV last time and got this kabinet into this position.

They represent a nasty, egoistic, paranoid sentiment. I'm not denying I have these thoughts myself, of course I do from time to time. It's human. However, I take a good hard look at my bookshelves and propaganda posters, and slap myself. People are increasingly failing in that.

Try this at a birthday or any gathering. "Hey, what if we threw out all the Maroccans?" Quite a few will jump with joy at the idea. About 2 seconds later, you can tell who's seriously pondering it. Then say: "That's deportation". Watch their faces shrivel with hypocritical denial, dito anger and a sudden total lack of arguments.

Brrrrrr... fifth columnists.
Nice to know you have a big problem with me. And no, not PVV. I honestly don't understand why SP voters have such a big problem with the PVV, have you compared the social agenda of the two parties? Exactly the same. Mix that with advocating a harsher policy on immigrants and criminals and you have yourselves a populist party; people who wants society more fair will consider voting and people who wants society more harsh will consider voting.

And I don't get your point about Moroccans, it's not even realistic to consider deporting an entire nationality nor will that solve any problems. The focusing on nationality is one of the vital mistakes all those idiots are making. Yes, there's loads of Moroccan kids screaming "wollah, kankerlijer" and wearing those awful Nickelson jackets but do those people think native Dutch kids are different? I live in a low population and agricultural area and hell, if you want some real white-trash, come visit me  :)

And do you seriously believe everything that is wrong with this country is the fault of this cabinet that only got two years? Yes, I am disappointed by Rutte and in hindsight I admit it was to be expected they would get ass-raped by Christian parties and Wilders but still you can't seriously blame the problems of our country on the two year administration of his cabinet.

And one honest question from me to an SP-voter; how can that party endorse the royal family? How is that fair in any way?
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline th_battleaxe

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #349 on: 24-04-2012, 18:04:00 »

Yes, there's loads of Moroccan kids screaming "wollah, kankerlijer" and wearing those awful Nickelson jackets

this is very recognizable for me, I've got a whole set of building blocks full of those guys half a mile away from my doorstep. We just ignore them...

for now...
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Offline Slayer

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #350 on: 24-04-2012, 18:04:25 »
Maybe they now finally decide not to buy those overprized and never-to-be-finished JSFs. That would solve a great deal of our economical problems.
You do realize that if we bail out now we have to pay a very expensive fine AND lose all the money we already pumped in it? We should have stopped years ago, it is too late now.. Don't get me wrong, I don't want those fighters either but it's very stupid to walk down a 500KM road and say let's go back when the counter hits 350KM.
For years I've been wanting them to bail out, but everytime the possibility was discussed, that argument you give now came up: we will waste so much money, it will be all for nothing, it is too late now, etc. I say better bail out yesterday. The sooner the better. It is not like it's gonna be cheaper when we continue. You know how the pirce has been icnreasing voer time, right? That will continue. In the end the government may be lucky if they can buy 5-10 of them instead of 60, because of the growing prices.

Ecological awareness is all fine and dandy, but I am Fuchs and I do not give a rat's ass about the environment due to eco-nazi's. Ecological laws are beyond my understanding, as is most forcing rules or tax reliefs. So ecological+ cars do not have to pay roadtaxes. Where is the sense in that? Do these cars magically float above the tarmac? And don't get me started on Staatsbosbeheer, you thought the German occupation was bad? Try making a living in a forest. It's not that I don't like nature, it's the way people shove it in your face that I just want to stop giving a single fuck about it.
Ah, so because some people annoy you, you'd rather go and continue polluting the planet until it is useless and we all die? Nice.

Also, do you really not understand why some stuff is subsidized? It is to motivate people to buy ecological cars. Yes, there is always some second agenda too, with business deals and everyhting, but the most important principle is that people might choose a car which is less polluting when they get some sort of a refund for it.

This is also the main reason for environmental laws. Because the majority of the (world's) population is dumb/unaware enough to not give a fuck about the planet they live on, they have to be forced to do stuff which helps saving it for future generations.

Oh, and nice Godwin's law there, btw ;)

@ sheik: I wonder where you got the impression that we didn't spend any money yet on the JSF?

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #351 on: 24-04-2012, 18:04:47 »
We all die anyways, Slayer, don't get your hopes up.

And yes, I will continue to pollute and destroy this planet. That is my protest to the way they treat me and try to make me feel like a murderer, terrorist and international criminal. Just like you are doing right now, even Godwin's Law is better than that.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #352 on: 24-04-2012, 19:04:08 »
Slayer, the thing with eco-nazis is that, they believe in certain ideas. That's the main problem.

I give you a case why these eco-nazis are failure idiots:
I am an aviation enthusiast, therefore I am heavily biased. But being that, I have a lot more knowledge than just some random hippie with random agenda and 100% belief in alternative bullshit.

There are tree huggers that say planes put a lot of carbon in the air and bla-bla.... while the actual data says they just contribute less than 2% of total carbon outputs despite having higher percentage of activity/tonnage carried/miles traveled. The main problem with airplanes is actually NOx gasses they emit (which is alarmingly big in proportion to other source of pollution, especially in older planes), which is very damaging to the environment, mostly in form of acid rains (which leads to polluted soil and ground water and in turn causes failed crops and famine and malnutrition and war). In my opinion, it is much bigger problem than global warming, because we are already fighting for freshwater supplies here.

The whole EU is trying to impose carbon tax on airlines, well I don't know if there has been a decline in intelligence level amongst its residents since renaissance era. But why not NOx tax which is more effective? I'll shut Rolls-Royce, GE, Pratt&Whitney the fuck up for marketing into political bs by saying that their newer engines produce less carbon footprint and all that nonsense. All that Carbon bullshit Al Gore trying to fed you in order to boost his popularity has profound biased effects amongst sudden environmentalist n00bs (kinda those idiot Facebook or other social media users). And their number is substantial. It is not helpful either to the greater cause.

Yes, carbon dioxide causes the greenhouse effect, but the majority of aerobic organism including us emit this gas all the time. Methane, however is much more dangerous, not to mention Chlorine's effect on ozone layer.

It is not that I tried to be neutral, hipster or something. But it is a real problem, caused by stuffs that I love and I'm being honest. Well, I also love guns, but some people use it to commit crime and hurt others. They are associated with negative things like violence. But little know that they are also used for sporting events (even contested in Olympic Games).

My conclusion is: we can't be half-assed and preach to people with our half-assed knowledge about a subject. But politics are all about seeking for popularity, well amongst idiots. So we'd better don't give a shit about it. If we want to make a change, start by filling our brains with the right stuff and do something right. I boycotted a lot of companies that waste a lot of paper (or using illegal logs to produce that), abusing their workforce, violating safety regulations, etc after thorough research. I am still conservative, however.
« Last Edit: 24-04-2012, 19:04:21 by Zoologic »

Offline Eglaerinion

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #353 on: 24-04-2012, 19:04:30 »
Maybe they now finally decide not to buy those overprized and never-to-be-finished JSFs. That would solve a great deal of our economical problems.
You're joking right? It solves nothing. The whole project will cost about 15 billion euros but that is for 30 years of use. A new jet will have to be bought eventually anyway whether it is a F-35 or another. Heck we spend 4 billion a year on dictators to keep oppressing their own people. If you want to cut spending start there.
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Offline Slayer

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #354 on: 24-04-2012, 20:04:46 »
We all die anyways, Slayer, don't get your hopes up.
Haha, no, I'm not hoping for eternal life or something, but I hope that my kids and maybe even grandkids will be able to walk the planet and breathe the air without being poisoned. I'm sorry to hear you don't care for the future at all.

And yes, I will continue to pollute and destroy this planet. That is my protest to the way they treat me and try to make me feel like a murderer, terrorist and international criminal. Just like you are doing right now, even Godwin's Law is better than that.
Please don't accuse me of stuff, you're totally missing the point (and aiming a cannon at a mosquito at that). If I would think you are an international criminal (the thought  ::)), I'd say so. This way you sound like a whiny kid who cuts open the football of his neighbourhood kids just because he can't have one himself.

A new jet will have to be bought eventually anyway whether it is a F-35 or another. Heck we spend 4 billion a year on dictators to keep oppressing their own people. If you want to cut spending start there.
No, of course not: there is absolutely no necessity to buy a new aircraft. We are a teeny tiny country which longs for some international respect and therefore we spend needed Euros for much unneeded military toys. We have to stop that. And of course we have to stop spending money on dictators too, but that was quite a rhetoric remark.

Offline Eglaerinion

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #355 on: 24-04-2012, 21:04:02 »
A new jet will have to be bought eventually anyway whether it is a F-35 or another. Heck we spend 4 billion a year on dictators to keep oppressing their own people. If you want to cut spending start there.
No, of course not: there is absolutely no necessity to buy a new aircraft. We are a teeny tiny country which longs for some international respect and therefore we spend needed Euros for much unneeded military toys. We have to stop that. And of course we have to stop spending money on dictators too, but that was quite a rhetoric remark.
Teen tiny country? Or the 15th largest economy of the world? It always surprises me how many people are members of the broken rifle club in the Netherlands.
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Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #356 on: 24-04-2012, 21:04:16 »
Netherlands might be a small country yet she stands strong at place 10 of GDP

even us belgians, 3 times as small as Netherlands, stand firmly at 17th place
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
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Offline Slayer

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #357 on: 24-04-2012, 21:04:31 »
Teen tiny country? Or the 15th largest economy of the world? It always surprises me how many people are members of the broken rifle club in the Netherlands.
Economy, yes: good thing to invest in. All military trouble is not something we're very good at, so let others excel there. And yes, I'm aware of examples which show that our army/navy did something well, but that's not my point.

But like I said: I'm all for supporting our economy, yet I think buying some overpriced aircraft isn't helping much.

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #358 on: 24-04-2012, 21:04:28 »
Introducing new aircraft always gives alot of jobs.

When belgium introduced the F-16, it was built partly here and it created over 25 000 jobs


But the JSF...well, overrated american POS. The netherlands would have been much better off with the Saab Gripen or Eurofighter typhoon

For norway example, the 52 JSFs orderd will cost them 700+ million dollar each

But we will see what the Dutch goverment brings after summer break. Nobody can do worse then Belgium
« Last Edit: 24-04-2012, 21:04:09 by THeTA0123 »
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Offline Fuchs

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #359 on: 24-04-2012, 21:04:43 »
Please don't accuse me of stuff, you're totally missing the point (and aiming a cannon at a mosquito at that). If I would think you are an international criminal (the thought  ::)), I'd say so. This way you sound like a whiny kid who cuts open the football of his neighbourhood kids just because he can't have one himself.
The don't accuse me of stuff either, Slayer  :P Really, all the guilt talk from your side. And I don't really get that comparison, I'm not destroying anything. I'm simply living my own life on this planet the way I like it, I'm 1 out of 7 billion and there's no way that if I go full environmental it will change even a single thing.

And I would never cut up some football if those kids just played with it. I'd cut it open if they keep smashing it in my face.

Also glad to know Interpol is not on me yet, even people here have no idea.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."