Author Topic: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections  (Read 35218 times)

Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #105 on: 17-06-2010, 17:06:48 »
Update: Informateur Uri Rosenthal (VVD) has announced that coalition talks about a VVD+PVVV+CDA cabinet has been discontinued. The VVD and PVV has a few meetings, they asked the CDA to join in the talks. But the CDA declined this, saying it would first like to see if VVD and PVV could agree on working together. The VVD and PVV said that they'd rather have talks with all three parties simultaniously rather then first negotationing between the two and then having to negotiate again with the CDA. The CDA also had announced that it even if they'd come to an agreement, that they'd go back to their memberbase first and put it up to a vote to see if this coalition was acceptable for them.

So now infomateur Rosenthal will have to look into an other coalition, most likely either a Paars (purple) cabinet of VVD, Pvda, D66 and GroenLinks, or a Nationaal Kabinet (National Cabinet) of VVD, CDA and PvdA.

Not sure wether to be happy or disappointed. Being a lefty, a right wing cabinet would be much worse then a centrist (right or left) cabinet. On the other hand, if they'd  be able to form a right wing cabinet people might fee the true effects of such a goverment: that it won't really make things better (but if anything, worse), that it could very well damage trade relations and that various silly laws either might not work due to violating the constitution or being simply impractical or affecting many more then those it was intended for. For example the "No facial coverage" law to ban the... hmm about a 100 or so nikaab/burquas we have here, but which would also ban people from (walking) around with skimask on, closed motorcycle helmet, full body costumes etc.   ::)

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #106 on: 17-06-2010, 18:06:32 »
Update: Informateur Uri Rosenthal (VVD) has announced that coalition talks about a VVD+PVVV+CDA cabinet has been discontinued.


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Offline 508th PIR Hawkeye

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #107 on: 17-06-2010, 19:06:42 »
Update: Informateur Uri Rosenthal (VVD) has announced that coalition talks about a VVD+PVVV+CDA cabinet has been discontinued.


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Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #108 on: 19-06-2010, 16:06:43 »
Forming a rightist coalition seems out of the question now CDA has refused to enter negotiations for a coalition of VVD, PVV and CDA.

So the VVD (centrist right) now seems bound to the PvdA (centrist left). Either forming a  Paars (purple) progressive coalition with pro-reform parties such as D66 and GroenLinks. In such a coalition centre left parties (PvdA, D66, GL) would dominate the centrist right VVD though. So VVD leader Rutte has already said that he isn't looking forward to such a coalition. The leaders of the other three parties in this coalition said that they'd favour this option.

Rutte rather has a coalition with the CDA, so that the focus (dominance) would remain centre-right rather then centre-left. However, the PvdA (Cohen) has said that they are not very happy with such a coalition.

I wouldn't be suprised if the VVD let's the talks for a paarse/purple centre-left cabinet fail and then invites the CDA and PvdA to talk about a centre right coalition. The PvdA may or may not agree on that this. If these talks fail, it's either back to re-examine a centre-left paarse cabinet or a right wing cabinet with the PVV. Or failing all that, see if the PvdA can form a coalition instead with the CDA for example and all of the centre left and leftish parties.

Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #109 on: 24-06-2010, 16:06:37 »
As expected, the talks with VVD (liberals, 31 seats), PvdA (Labour, 30 seats), D66 (Soc-Liberals, 10 seats), and GroenLinks (Greens, 10 seats) failed.  Rutte (VVD) pulled th plug on this, because in his eyes his right wing party would be dominated by these three "left wing" parties. That's ofcourse a simplication, as D66 and to some extend, GroenLinks are quite progressive and pro-reform including economic topics were they favour various liberalisations/rule relaxing.  
So a Paars (purple) cabinet with the above mentioned parties is out of the question for now...

Rutte has called for a meeting between VVD, CDA (ChristianDemocrats, 21 seats) and PvdA. Cohen (PvdA) has said he ain't keen on such a coalition. Though the three of them are going to engage in talks to form this "national" or "orange" cabinet.  

Thus Rutte has closed the door to a centre-left cabinet, and Cohen the door to a centre-right cabinet.

Meanwhile, there is mentioning of inviting D66 and GroenLinks in these talks to form a "rainbow coalition" of the "rightwinged" VVD and CDA (31+21= 52 seats) and "leftwinged" PvdA, GroenLinks and D66 (30+10+10= 50 seats).  On paper this should balance out to a centrist coalition. It would be rather large though, much larger then the 76+ minimum that is needed to gain a majority in the Tweede Kamer (Second Chamber, Lower house).

Wilders has asked to look at talks between his party (PVV, 24 seats) and CDA again.

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #110 on: 24-06-2010, 16:06:58 »
Don't know if to 'lol' or 'facepalm' at the situation right now.

Well I'm with Rutte on that matter, then it's him vs the others in his own cabinet, wont work  :P

But yeah the coalitions are getting ridiculous now, why not group up all parties, then they can do whatever they want because there is no opposition.
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Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #111 on: 24-06-2010, 17:06:57 »
Don't know if to 'lol' or 'facepalm' at the situation right now.

Well I'm with Rutte on that matter, then it's him vs the others in his own cabinet, wont work  :P
I think he's exaggerating though. It's his centre-right VVD (31 seats) vs the centre elft PvdA (30 seats). This would mean you'd get a centrist compromise. D66 is pretty centrist, a bit leftish in some areas, a bit rightish in others... but we could cruedly label this as centrist. D66 should be able to work along both PvdA and VVV. The three of these could thus in theory make an other centrist coalition known as paars (purple).  In the previous Paars coalition PvdA was the largest and by more then the extremely small 1 seat margin the VVD finds itself in now, explaining a small bias/focus to the left. This time,  due to such a small difference you'd expect less of a bias/focus to the right.

Though this setup would not give them enough seats for a majority coalition. The closest partner then then comes in sight are either GroenLinks (centre left) and CDA (centre right).

Ofcourse, if the D66 would opt to strongly favour PvdA over VVD for some reason it could mean a centre left dominance over de VVD.  If D66 would decide to be VVD's bitch, then the PvdA would be dominated by a centre right focus.

But for an outright left dominance as Rutte suggested you'd need to have a setup of PVV plus PvdA, SP (Socialist Party) and GroenLinks. Then yes, the VVD would be dominated.

Quote
But yeah the coalitions are getting ridiculous now, why not group up all parties, then they can do whatever they want because there is no opposition.
And it would be rather unstable. Just drop the H-word in there and they'd collapse. With the VVD and CDA stubbornly (IMHO and in the opinion of many economics) refusing to alter the slightest thing (≠ scrapping it entirely!!)...  just give in already, but with the demand of more cuts then say the PvdA favours. 

Yes, I'm still hoping for a new paars (centrist) cabinet . THough I'd rather see a centre-left, progressive cabinet with a fair balance on cuts (need to get rid of our national debt etc.) and social justice. Or a right wing cabinet with Geert and have them fail miserably, either because the coalition buckles or the plans are proven to be so unrealistic or unlawful that they can't be put into action...  :P

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #112 on: 24-06-2010, 17:06:49 »
Yeah give Geert a chance, he might fuck up, he might not. But as a person neutral on the PVV (not a hat0r like so many) I think he shouldn't, he should be in the opposition and his buddies should learn politics a bit more as it's all new inexperienced people.

All combinations will fail IMO. Rather vote again lol.
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Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #113 on: 26-06-2010, 17:06:10 »
Short update: The VVD informateur (informer) Uri Rosenthal, Senator in the High House (Eerst Kamer, First Chamber) has reported his conclusions about the formation process to Queen Beatrix.   He had adviced to appoint two informers, one of the VVD and one of the PvdA as he concluded that any future coalition will almost certainly need to consist of atleast these two parties.

Queen beatrix has decided differently though despite of this advice (which was supported by the VVD, PvdA and CDA. Only D66 said it prefered a single informer. Beatrix announced she appointed Tjeenk Willink as the new informer. The 68 year old Willink is a member of the PvdA, and has been a senator -and later chairman -of the Higher House. Since 1997 he has been Vice-president of the "Raad van State" (Council of State, this is an advisory body to the government which consists of members of the royal family and Crown appointed members generally having political, commercial, diplomatic, or military experience.).  He's widely viewed as being "above party views" . He also led the coalition talks in 1994 which let to the formation of the Paarse (purple) cabinet. 

His task(s) will be limited however, he isn't expected to lead additional negotiations but instead pave the way for such negotiations. When the talks about a coalition formation reach a more serious level an (other) informer(s) will take over.

Offline luftwaffe.be

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #114 on: 26-06-2010, 19:06:40 »
It is starting to remind me of the Belgian elections of 2007 :P

I hope for you guys that it won't go the same way though  :-\

Offline Lightning

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #115 on: 28-06-2010, 14:06:07 »
Queen beatrix has decided differently though despite of this advice (which was supported by the VVD, PvdA and CDA.
I find it quite disturbing that this can actually happen...

Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #116 on: 28-06-2010, 15:06:36 »
In theory she could chose to be a real bitch when it comes to establishing a new goverment or giving permission for the old goverment to step down... 

Offline 508th PIR Hawkeye

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #117 on: 28-06-2010, 19:06:13 »
Queen beatrix has decided differently though despite of this advice (which was supported by the VVD, PvdA and CDA.
I find it quite disturbing that this can actually happen...

Republic anyone? ;D Just like in the old days (when the rest of Europe never heard of republics)!

Nah I'm fine with them being there but no political powers please, and stop wasting my tax money on fancy foreign trips...
« Last Edit: 28-06-2010, 19:06:56 by 508th PIR Hawkeye »
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Offline luftwaffe.be

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #118 on: 22-09-2010, 18:09:24 »
aren't are nations forming nice coalitions gentlemen  ?  :P

Maybe Belgium and The Netherlands should swap parties with one another, then we might actually form a government  ;D

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« Reply #119 on: 22-09-2010, 18:09:03 »
Year 3 of belgium "not having a goverment aka able to form one  ;D ;D"
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