Author Topic: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.  (Read 3838 times)

Offline Dago Red

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Hi, Dago Red here.
 :D
Most of you know probably know me from the past 9 years of Forgotten Hope, and such popular hits as Lobo's little lub nubs, My night with Yossarian, and
Professor Anthrax, Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Smacktard.

There is a funny thing going on with FH2 these days, with these 96 player, 130 player, 196 player whatever servers.  It's great people are experimenting and there is certainly no harm done with increasing the max cap on servers a bit. 

But official words from the developers talking about adjusting the mod for these, if the experiments work?  Guys, have you checked the player numbers lately?

I just looked at the server browser.....


Yep, that's 2 players right now.....and they are both bots.


What we need, and have needed for about 2 years now, are well designed smaller maps for the player numbers. Not larger servers.  We can't even keep 1 single server capped out, globally. And in North and South America there are only a few nights a week we can count on 30+ players ... the old Wolf Thursday, now at WaW, for one.


If this mod is going to retain players, we need the same kind of amazing quality we see in the 64 size maps, put into the 16 and 32 size maps. 

With the latest release -- featuring some awesome new maps, by the way -- we have lost just as many small maps as we gained.   Several of the old 16's including one of the most played and requested FH maps of all time (old Giarabub 16) are just ruined piles of junk at the moment:
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=17553.0

Several other 16's and 32's are just mindless spam fests and don't play well for long.  I have been admining FH for 8 years now.  I've never seen a sustained lull go on for this long, even with a release just weeks ago. 

The most common complaint about FH2, on an FH2 server, is the lack of players.
The second most common complaint is that the map is too big.
The third most common is that there are no tanks or kits or toys to play with on the smaller map the server switched to, because there aren't enough people to play a 64 size map.

Offline GIJordncc1701d

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #1 on: 16-08-2012, 08:08:21 »
Honestly, while I love large maps because they are so much fun to explore, for gameplay the smaller ones can definitely be better. I would like to see some smaller maps as well.

What is causing the drop off in players? I don't think the sole reason is that the maps are too large and stuff. I'm just curious to see it drop off so badly. I've been playing in total for about two years now (one year online) and in the last year it has dropped significantly. It's rather disheartening.

Offline psykfallet

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #2 on: 16-08-2012, 09:08:19 »

Yep, that's 2 players right now.....and they are both bots.


that's  because the serverpage only shows servers with official ranks. And the trend since long now is that unofficial servers are more populous.



Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #3 on: 16-08-2012, 09:08:27 »
Get the Americans back to playing FH2 and we'd all be happier for it, but how?!
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Offline djinn

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #4 on: 16-08-2012, 09:08:39 »
With Americans, isn't it bigger is better?

LOL - Ok.

But seriously, I totally agree with you, Dag Red. I think we should see more servers running various sizes of maps - Huge maps for the 130 player server, but also some dedicated 16 and 32 servers will be nice.

32 especially gets no love. You have the counterattack PDH map, night versions, Objective mode etc.

Offline Sir Apple

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #5 on: 16-08-2012, 10:08:51 »
Yes, I completely agree with you, Dago.

To be honest I am not really 'into' this whole idea of cramming so many people onto a server, I refuse to play with that many people, its a suck experience for me.

When the developers announced the working 'official' implementation of larger server numbers, I must admit I somewhat rolled my eyes and wondered why more effort is not being put into what we have. The fanbase isn't exactly growing at a rapid rate. Perhaps I'm wrong but I think the only thing this larger server space is going to do is create a larger wasteland inhabited by few more then 30 people. I guess its good for tournaments, though?

Just my opinion :) However I really would like to see some smaller maps/versions of maps with what we are given. I've noticed 16p maps can REALLY keep a server going when a handful of people leave.


Offline Thorondor123

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #6 on: 16-08-2012, 10:08:15 »

I just looked at the server browser.....

No you didn't, that thing does not work. Moot point is moot.
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Offline Dago Red

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #7 on: 16-08-2012, 18:08:56 »
I would like to see some smaller maps as well.  [...snip...] ?

You are far from alone.  We have learned to get very creative with what we have and try to throw in the odd 64 here and there even with only 20/30 people to keep things fresh but the choices are limited. 

And if you play almost every night, like many of us do, it turns into a grind with the lack of selection. This is why many moved on. 

the only thing this larger server space is going to do is create a larger wasteland inhabited by few more then 30 people. [...snip...]

 I've noticed 16p maps can REALLY keep a server going when a handful of people leave.

This is exactly it. Time and effort wasted on re-adjusting the mod for 130 people is madness, when what the mod actually, desperately needs, is to cater to it's smaller player base by refining the awesome maps it already has. And fast.

Otherwise we're Il Duce issuing new feathered helmet plumes to Sicily on August 17th, 1943.

32 especially gets no love.
Which is badly needs. We would have a new game if only we had as many 32's given as much attention as half the 64's.


No you didn't, that thing does not work.

It was just a fun little visual. I have played FH2 almost every week since it's launch.  I know what the servers look like each day, regardless of the official browser. And the most ever up that don't show there regularly are, maybe, 1 other server.
« Last Edit: 16-08-2012, 18:08:28 by Dago Red »

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #8 on: 16-08-2012, 18:08:49 »
The only servers showing up there are official ranked once, so 762s don't show up at all, even though they form more than half of the player base.

Offline [130.Pz]S.Lainer

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #9 on: 16-08-2012, 19:08:51 »
  I disagree.  The devs always have small map layers to play with and if a mapper wants to make a lil'version they can.  And maybe you are right we need a little more.  But that is up to whatever dev makes that map.  I personally think FH2 infantry combat is shit.  If I want to have a good time shooting peoples in the face in an arcade way I can find much better games these days (Killzone 3, Battlefield 3, Resistance 3 basically anything with a fucking 3 at the end of it...).  What really makes FH2 fun for me is the whole large scale combined arms bit.  So really combined arms*32= :)*2= :D*2= ;D  It is just simple math Dago.
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Offline [WaW]TC|Avrojet

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #10 on: 16-08-2012, 19:08:42 »
I must agree that the 16 and 32 player versions are lacking.
Put in a few tanks, halftracks etc on some of the smaller maps.

Right now 16 players is basically infantry only, no tanks. It's extremely boring playing 16 player maps for several hours as there is no variety, they are all infantry only. Throw in a couple of maps with more tanks.


Offline Dago Red

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #11 on: 16-08-2012, 19:08:50 »
The only servers showing up there are official ranked

I know. And this is fairly irrelevant, even if they are half the player base (which is highly debatable), that's still a whopping total of 4 bots playing FH2 last night.   8)

You get the point. 30 people playing on Wolf thursdays at Waw, and 50 at WaW pubby friday, and 0 on saturday... Double it for the unranked rebel servers and then the total number of FH2 players in the entire world for that weekend are 160 people.  That's putting it liberally.  Most of the Thursday people came back on Friday and so on. There are never, ever more than 1 server at max population cap. Ever.  I don't just look at the warumdarum browser.

  What really makes FH2 fun for me is the whole large scale combined arms bit.  So really combined arms*32= :)*2= :D*2= ;D  It is just simple math Dago. 

Next time I see you on the server you can explain that math to me Lainer -- we'll find a chalkboard in a command bunker or main somewhere, and I'll say "nein" a lot.

I agree with you about combined arms, 100%.  But when you can only scrape together 30 people to play FH2, you run out of 64 size options real fast. And much as I personally try every. single. week. to convince people that there are 64's that play well with 30 people,  many hate -- I mean HATE -- waiting  minutes to engage the enemy each spawn.  They loudly proclaim their distaste for the map size, and tend to leave.  It's just not working anymore.  What works is 16 and 32 player maps designed for combined arms.

Right now 16 players is basically infantry only, no tanks. It's extremely boring playing 16 player maps for several hours as there is no variety, they are all infantry only. Throw in a couple of maps with more tanks.

Exactly!  This is what we're talking about with love for the 32's (and 16's).  If just half the love and attention that goes into 64's go into the smaller maps, FH2 will be going strong for a long time. Spawn lay out, kit and equipment distribution, flag design, abc and border design, beta testing.....

Offline Kelmola

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #12 on: 16-08-2012, 20:08:39 »
Right now, what the mod needs is to attract a larger playerbase (accepting a declining playerbase is just defeatism). 16 and 32 player shooters there are aplenty. One oooooooold MMOFPS and one PS3 exclusive game are the only ones (AFAIK) offering 128+ player FPS experience.

Now, which would be more likely to attract people who hear about FH2 for the first time? More of the same old, same old, or something no other shooter can offer?

Offline Dago Red

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #13 on: 16-08-2012, 21:08:24 »
To start attracting a larger player base, the mod first needs awesome 16 and 32 player maps. That's what new players are having to see more than anything else because we rarely have enough people to play 64's! ! ! 

Here's what happens: New player comes in and either has a bad time on a huge 64 player map waiting 5 and 10 minutes at a time just to see an enemy. Or, they have an okay time playing some smaller maps, but don't get to see any equipment or tanks, toys (because little to no attention is paid to this on anything but 64's) and they tire of it and leave.

I'm not saying huge efforts, 130 servers, etc it shouldn't be pursued at all, but that making this all the rage right now is foolish.
What players are going to be left in this hypothetical future where thousands are attracted to Fh2 just because it has 130 player servers?  What about the several hundred dedicated regulars, who struggle to have a good time each week with only 15 or 20 or 30 others each time they play?

This isn't new. The 64 size maps only get played for the first month or 2 after release, then we fall back to 20 or 30 players for the next 9 months, grinding away on the few choices we have.   Then another release... 64 player maps for a month, maybe even only 3 weeks, then we're back to 30 players again. 

No, make the maps we have the best they can be first and foremost. People are leaving the mod because there are not enough fun, or tactical, or interesting opportunities on the maps we have to work with with the players we have to work with right now.
« Last Edit: 16-08-2012, 21:08:31 by Dago Red »

Offline Lupin

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Re: Better, small maps, and to hell with 130 player servers.
« Reply #14 on: 16-08-2012, 22:08:12 »
The only servers showing up there are official ranked once, so 762s don't show up at all, even though they form more than half of the player base.

Yes, but that half of the player base completely vanishes during American prime time (evenings), so for us in the States all that awaits us in the server browser is a wasteland of empty servers.

FH2 is alive and well for the Europeans, but it might as well not even exist outside of Thursday for the majority of American players. Most of us can't play during European Prime time either because it's when a lot of us are working (or just getting home). The pings are extremely restrictive for us as well, I get a 300 ping to the European servers and I can only imagine what our friends in South America get.

I haven't even seen a full American server in this version.

What I think needs to be done is a large scale advertising campaign on gaming websites, and forums to draw in new blood. Maybe even send a global email to everyone registered on the forum notifying them that there's a new FH2 version. I didn't even know FH2 had come out until a week after it happened because there was no news about it anywhere except here.
« Last Edit: 16-08-2012, 22:08:37 by Lupin »