What Makes a Good Infantry Map?

[Martinlegend]

yes

[Zoologic]

Tanks and infantries are a bit changed when we transitioned from North Africa to Normandy.

In North Africa, they have useless big rifle, but deadly AT grenades. Now, the most annoying and amusing part is, you don't get this in Normandy, the German retains their explosive box, and the Allies get their more equal counterpart (composition B and Satchel Charge). But now you have this deadly zooks and fausts + schrecks.

City fights were so much fun back in North Africa with tanks, some due to this factor.

Eastern front would pose much better environment. I really want to see big ass arties, like Katyusha, big mortars, or huge SPGs (Hummel, ISUs) that can really change infantry games at the last minute, so huge ticket difference doesn't always mean certain defeat. This also makes camping useless and annulled position raping (depends on how the dev put spawning points), MG nest rapefest, and brainless swarm attacks of infantry without real coordination.

[Martinlegend]

Eastern front is a good scenario but it would be a Big Step to this

BotB is the better thing

with fight in Wooden areas (without tanks or only on the Roads where the tanks cant move so much)

and they only need to make new skins and not whole new models

[Jobabb Jobabbsen]

I think Fall of Tobruk and Purple Heart Lane is my favorites, with Point Du Hoc and Giarabub close behind.

What an infantry map needs is at least one, preferrably more places where its either a choke point, or big open area with no alternate routes so the defenders have a good view over all possible routes of the attacker. (like the top flag of the three lower flags at PHL, the un-recappable ones, or the first open part of Fall of Tobruk. Sometimes the battle stops here since the defenders are too good. But still, a map have to be a challenge. If a map have too many hidden alternate routes, like the city-part of Fall of Tobruk, or Giarabub then the game might get dull cause it turns out to a flag capping hide and seek game.

I prefer alot more a not urban infantry fight. City-battles often tend to be similar. The best scenarios i would say is heavy fortified forest/farm area, like PDH. With alot of barbed wire, sandbags and bunkers. Where movement may be difficult, but your line of fire reaches far.

I like an infantry map to have no tanks, or least tanks as possible. A few vehicles is nice, like a jeeps and apc's. I kinda think artillery isnt really a good thing at infantry maps either. It works well with artillery in PHL. But for example in Falaise Pocket where the infantry often is pinned down in small areas by tanks , and the artillery have spotted them its game over way too easy.

The details of the landscape / graphics , i think is more important in an infantry map than other maps, since you seek cover, crawl around at any place on the map, noticing every detail sooner or later. At the tank maps youre usually just aiming in your sight.

Talking about good infantry scenarios i would suggest hürtgen-forest/ siegfried line. A battle known for fierce infantry fighting and german tactical superior defencepositions and dangerous hidden bunkers and machinegunpositions. A real bunker map would be awesome imo, where the american have to bypass several bunkers with interlocking MG firezones, i guess with help from sniper rifles and flamethrowers. Or if possible the poles with explosives at the end used to blow up bunkers in this battle in particular. Flame thrower tanks would also be intresting to see in FH2 

[corsair89]

Seems like I'm one of the only but Tunis is definitely my kind of infantry map, along with Giarabub. Why ?

- They don't have open terrain, where the defenders just snipe the charging attackers. I really like to just charge with my Thompson fully loaded and try to storm a flag, hoping some mates are actually following me.

- Again, narrow paths and corridor, with buildings to clear is really what depicts true city fighting for me. I've spent entire rounds in Sidi HQ, loosing the flag, storming it, failing to take it, re-storm it, taking it and awaiting the counter-attack, etc...
For now, I'm not a big fan of Brest, but that's maybe because I'm not too fond of American weapons (I mostly play allied) when it comes to infantry fighting and that the PIV breaks a bit of this "infantry fighting house by house".

- As I said for Brest, no tanks. While hunting them is really rewarding, something like Ramelle is just....well no. I don't like it. A well positioned tank can ruin the round if you can't destroy it at all, and don't even think of approaching it.

- Grenade, limited but there. Unless that you're suicidal, a grenade is needed for clearing, or at least be sure that the house you'll enter, or the street you will take is not filled with 10+ guys just waiting to put a bullet between your eyes as soon as you appear at the corner.

- Fighting on two or three levels is really cool, like Sidi or FoT.

On a general note, maps that portray battles like PHL or PdH are really enjoyable too as pure infantry maps but fall in another category for me, infantry map but with open terrain.

[Stryker]

A map where no vehicles are on the map, so it is just infantry, making it a infantry map

[RN_Max]

What helps to make a good infantry map is not having too many of them, especially if they have no vehicles.

There is an over abundance of groundpounder combat games.

[sheikyerbouti]

 Cover, multiple layers of easily occupied buildings, and no kit limits make for the best infantry maps.

[Martinlegend]

an only infantry map would be boring

maybe 1-2 shermans or 1-2 stuG + mortars would be ok to see some Tank/infantry combo attacks
and the maps should be not to big

so the tanks need to be covered by the grenadiers

[IrishReloaded]

mh dont you think we got enough of tanks + inf maps? Like: Port en Bessin, Fall of tobruk, Brest, Ramelle, Anctonville?

The only real infrantry maps are: Tunis, Point du Hoc, Purple heart lane, and Giarabub.

[Archimonday]

- Clear Objectives: Don't ever make an infantry map with more flags than is necessary. The point of an infantry map is to challenge players to test their skills in the simplest type of combat in the game, man to man, rifle to rifle. Many maps tend to have flags on them that are in pointless positions, sometimes far off from the rest of the focus, and make for distractions from the primary goal.


- Don't Restrict: The worse thing to do in an Infantry map is to make the layout too constricting. Infantry players are always looking for that alternate route around an obstacle or enemy emplacement so that they can take it out. Dont ever put players in a situation where they have no choice but to confront an unattainable goal. Always give them options.

- Watch your layout: Often times the most annoying thing in infantry maps is the placement of static objects. Sometimes an ill placed fence, or an edge that is too high or too low can be one of the most annoying, and sometimes deadly things an infantryman can run into. Make sure players can run across the terrain unhindered - that they do not get stuck on boards, bricks or other pieces of terrain -, that they always have avenues of escape, and that fences and other obvious barriers are never too long without a break in them. Sometimes the most annoying parts of infantry map design is getting lost, or having no options but to walk for 3 grids around a wall that could easily have 1 or more breaks in it.

- Watch the Flag Radius and Placement: The debate over flag radius is a long running one, but sometimes infantry maps have flags which simply make no sense. In some cases flags will be placed in town squares without much cover to hide behind, and the only way to capture the flag is to lay directly next to the flag post. Infantryman don't want to expose themselves like that, they want to fight for the flag, yes, but there is no person that ever wants to die 100 times trying to take a 5 to 10 meter flag radius that surrounds a solitary box.

- Come up with new ideas: Infantry players like myself love variety. The standard push map can get boring after some time. Tweak the conquest system to make a new type of gameplay. Perhaps lower the neutrality time on the flags to near nothing, making an instant gray flag that then has to be fought over by forces advancing from either side of it. Making its capture time rather long might ensure that the flag remains contested for many minutes, creating good focus and intense combat as both sides attempt to hold their positions, and push back the other team.

[Ts4EVER]

- Watch your layout: Often times the most annoying thing in infantry maps is the placement of static objects. Sometimes an ill placed fence, or an edge that is too high or too low can be one of the most annoying, and sometimes deadly things an infantryman can run into. Make sure players can run across the terrain unhindered - that they do not get stuck on boards, bricks or other pieces of terrain -, that they always have avenues of escape, and that fences and other obvious barriers are never too long without a break in them. Sometimes the most annoying parts of infantry map design is getting lost, or having no options but to walk for 3 grids around a wall that could easily have 1 or more breaks in it.

Amen. Especially bad are walls that look like you can jump over them but you can't. You should hear Toddel raging on beta testing teamspeak when he comes across one on a new map, instant classic
Also, never have a position on your map where a player could run into, realize he is in a dead end and turn around to run back the whole way. This is often the case on Giarabub for instance, contributing to the "labyrinthic" feel of that map (also it rocks in almost every other way)

[djinn]

Variety in terrain. If its an open map, those ditches, foxholes and shell craters make all the difference

If its a town map, open houses, sniper locations, variety between wide and narrow streets. For me, its about a believable level with naturally existing cover and concealment.

I love a map like PHL, but I can understand from its layout where it may go wrong online - Not enough cover in the wide open areas so it becomes a game of lying in wait. For a map like PeB however, everything comes together nicely. Even if there weren't tanks or static AT guns, this map would rock

The key thing is, players need to be decieved that gameplay uses something more than 'point and shoot'. The ability to position a deploy-able mg and lie in wait, take out people from a window, dash from cover to cover under fire, variety in landscape and changing challenges as you move... that's what makes an infantry-only map fun imo

[Dukat]

Please be careful when (de-)placing the infantry spawns from the actual flag positions. I believe the devs did some nice job experimenting with deplaced spawns like on Port-en-Bessin or Ramelle-Neuville. But you should be aware of the fact that it can be kind of annoying when you're always spawning far away from the actual flag you've selected. I also noticed some complaints on public servers.

Please don't use this method in general for all future maps. Rather consider it a more easy way to implement balance fixes after a map has been released. If it is possible to add some spare spawn positions not being used right away, you might be able to balance combat around each position by using the spare spawns in favour of one of the teams later.

[SiCaRiO]

few bottle necks, lot of place to maneuver, flank ,etc, like PHL ^^