Bring back the stamina bar ?

[jan_kurator]

"Influx of bunny hoppers" <- I'd like you to prove that. If anything bunny hopping is caused by people trying to desperately save their ass in a position where they have no cover. You know, like a beach.

So you want me to prove obvious thing which happened last years when stamina bar was removed? Most of the new players do famous bunny hopping as it is what they use to do in other games. Patches ago FH2 was one of the few games when it was inpossible, and so called noobs learned it pretty quickly, now they don't and you can see people jumping like idiots. Seriously, sometimes when I read your posts in which you try to sound professional with all your funny theories, I feel like Natty logs to your account to write some of his bullshit, and sorry but I'm to lazy to prove you anything, try to ask other people, maybe they can confirm what I've just said. I'm not desperate enough to waste my limited time because in the end you will negate it in one way or another, not to mention that I get used to bunny hoppers lack of stamina bar long time ago...

[Surfbird]

I personally don't think that with the stamina bar comin back, bunny hopping would become a more significant problem. When the bar was still there people sometimes started to hop when it was emptied as they could not run anymore.
So without the bar, bunny hopping in general might be a less attractive solution for people to get away, as running is faster, non-stupid and overall probably offers a higher possibility of survival.
That means with a reintroduction of the stamina bar and jumps not draining it, the situation will be the same as with the stamina bar that had jumps draining it.
Because people won't hop more than they hop now when they can still run.

=> Bunny hopping amount will be around the same, no matter if hops drain the stamina bar or not.

But: As the stamina bar is currently not implemented, there might be slightly more hops than right now.

=> Stamina bar might (!) lead to slightly more bunny hopping.

That's my view on this.

@jan

Okay, you experienced that different then. I don't feel that too many people abuse the unlimited stamina currently to bunny hop a lot. It's a specific kind of people that does it and they make like 20% of a populated server. The thing is that I usually experience those hops when they are close to a corner, surprised in CQC or under fire on long distance being rather close to cover. While the mix of sprinting and jumping works better without a stamina bar, I don't see that too often to be honest. People consistently bunny hopping, making more than 2 jumps in a row are very rare. Those kind of bunny hops I mostly experienced won't stop with a stamina bar. So out of that estimated 20% who use bunny hops here and there, there are maybe 1-3 people who consistently bunny hop around and abuse the unlimited stamina.

[Ts4EVER]

I play on public servers quite a bit and if there was some kind of bunny hopping epidemic I would have noticed. Remember dolphin diving? Now that was a real issue, whenever you saw someone you just dropped down and had 100% accuracy. Then it was fixed. But you dont see major König or sargcoresi bunny hopping around, because it only helps you in very specific circumstances: when you are under fire with no cover and try to save your ass. And in that case, let them. I don't care. As an actual combat tactic it is useless. If we ever get a real epidemic it will be fixed, but not through the stamina bar, but through disabling the weapon longer after jumping.

[jan_kurator]

@Surfbird: if you jump while running, you basically move with the same speed + you're not moving in line what makes you slightly more difficult target for your enemies, that's why people do that. Reintroduction of the stamina bar with jumps not draining it is not an option, those drains where the only thing which prevented people from that stupid jumps because after 3-4 of them you could move only with walk speed and you became an easy prey (what as a side effect made it more difficult to move in ruins etc, as playermodels tend to stuck on lots of obstacles in game, hence I'm not a big fan of bringing stamina bar back). Why anybody would jump if it doesn't give him any big advantage and can prevent him from sprinting? I remember that I even catched myself on those silly jumps when they stopped draining my stamina, because in those situations Ts4EVER mentioned, you just want to save your ass, you don't think about how silly it is and how annoying it can be for players on the other side. Before stamina bar removal it wasn't worth it as advantage of jumping isn't really big and less people did that, afraid of being "stuck" in the middle of nothing after few jumps.

[Slayer]

wat
they still could run forward.

No.

This is one of those issues where I always facepalm at people. They equate limited springt with "hurr-durr-realism-and-tactics" but the two have nothing to do with each other.

No. With the stamina bar I like the game better, that's why I want it back. So, all the bunnyhoping issues aside, I just want the staminabar back, up sprint speed a bit, remove the jog. Jogging is 80s, not 40s.

[RAnDOOm]

Dont derail the thread.

This is not about your bunny hopping bullshit discussion.

Stick to the fucking topic.

Stamina bar. Shoud it be in or out.

Read my first post and Slayers post also,  which had some vaild arguments.

Thats it.

[Kubador]

I'm with Ts4EVER on this one. I'll add that reintroducing the sprint bar would more of a hindrance than a feature. I'd rather focus on other things than how to run - FH2 still has plenty things to consider. If it was a turn based game then sure, why not? But it isn't and there is no reason to penalize players for wanting to get to the front lines as quick as possible. And I rarely see bunny hopping utilized and those that do that won't be discouraged by some fancy sprint bar. People have different styles of play. Some play serious, some shoot full auto on ranges beyond CQ and some sit and troll the main chat - you won't have "a fix" for that.

If someone bunnyhops then it's for other reason than effectiveness as dolphin diving was.

[jan_kurator]

...those that do that won't be discouraged by some fancy sprint bar.

They don't have to be discouraged, stamina drain after jump will make it impossible for them 

[McCloskey]

fuck the stamina, you can still hop around like a jackass but you'll get fucked when you try to navigate a destroyed town/city cuz debris/obstacles everywhere. now i dont play half as much as i used to back in the day, but if this was to come back, I'd have even harder time getting back to the mod - the infantry gameplay is already obsolete and archaic as hell, just play one round of BF3 infantry and then get back to FH2.. the difference is so huge I can't even (understand how BF2 was played for so long)

/2 cents

[Mudzin]

Stamina bar removal was the biggest gameplay improvement to me on the same level with tank angle mod. I was often getting pissed when I lost whole bar becuase I stuck in the rubble. Also reaching frontline on foot on some maps with not enough transport vehicles (since many patches) would be pain in the ass again...

[Graf_Radetzky(CZ)]

My remark, based on comparison with others of similiar genre (BF1942 mods are a great inspiration, even if already in bit of a blur):

-moving in general
-past running
-past jumping
-getting wounded
should all magnify the imaginary crosshair up to point of bullet going nearly anywhere. More than jumping perhaps annoys me how I fire three bullets into a torso of enemy (classical example being fall of Tobruk tunnels) with tommy gun, just to be one-shotted by his kar98k.

[hitm4k3r]

I am against infinite stamina in games in general. Same rubbish like autoheal, autorepair, 3D spotting etc. if I am honest. It is just there to make things easier and reduces the demand for creativity and intelligence from the player.

I still don't understand why people claim that infinitve stamina doesn't increase the amount of bunny hopping though. If you played the mod for the last couple of years including the change from limited stamina to infinite you can't deny that people bunny hop alot more these days and it gave a couple of wierd discussions during the last FlH campaign leading to funny rules. With limited stamina you hop only once or twice and not the whole f*cking beach at Omaha. Jumping takes stamina and if it is limited you can't jump forever ... simple mathematics.

I think both things are tied together. When you have a limited amount of stamina you will think twice before bunny hoping and loosing too much stamina while the next cover is further away. You are just better of with running to the next cover in this case and using your limited abilities. I am not saying that players didn't bunnyhop pre 2.45, but it didn't save their butt atleast and people learned it quite fast, that normal movement is the way to go. The gameplay didn't look that ridiciolous tbh.

The obstacle argument doesn't stand a chance from my POV. If you want to move, then think twice and plan how to move. Soldiers have to do the same. There is only one map that comes to my mind that gives some issues with rubble and little obstacles anyway. And that's Fall of Tobruk. All other maps work rather smooth.

So, please bring back the stamina bar.

[Mudzin]

But why the stamina bar should be back? All of you don't give any reasonable argument...

[hitm4k3r]

So to getting rid of too much bunny hopping and demanding a bit more creativity from the player is not a valid argument to bring back a feature that turns uber soldiers in normals soldiers again? It will take a bit of pace out of the game wich makes it a bit less "spawn die spawn die" aswell. All you want is to switch of the brain while moving.

Soldiers sprint and jump alot less in war zones than you might think, especialy compared to FH2. Jumping exposes yourself and is dangerous. And good luck with infinitine sprinting while carrying a weapon, ammunition and your full back pack.

[MaJ.P.Bouras]

increase aiming time penalty after jumping as well as deviation penalty. And before you tell me "What if i need to jump that small pavement that i cannot walk over?" Well plan better next time.