That's it, thanks for good games everyone

[Surfbird]

I was never a fan of the crossed out flag rule, but it has been some time that I got kicked because of it. If I was in your position, I would complain about it as well. A kick for being around a crossed out flag is certainly over the top. A warning should be enough (although I would personally disagree with that as well, as the rule is rather stupid), especially when the situation is not clear. The problem is that there is quite a big amount of admins and it seems the way things are handled differ from one to another. I have seen some non-adminlike behaviour once in a while as well, although I was personally, aside from some offensive words in voip, not affected. Generally things have improved on 762 though, I personally didn't have any problems anymore and I respect the admins that are reliable. I just don't agree with the way some admins act when they have a bad day or some things are handled in general (Crossed out flag rule & Damaso case included). No 762 bashing intended, it's just my honest opinion in this case.

[Kelmola]

>be playing Ramelle as Yanks
>sneak onto the west side of the river after the Bridge flag has fallen, but stay down on the platform, not on street level, never firing into spawn points or flagzone, never entering flagzone
>get kicked for attacking uncap
>next time, play as Jerries
>see players ascending from the platform and charging the flagzone several minutes after Bridge has gone uncap
>report
>"they're not breaking any rules"
>"it's a forward flag, you must clear it"
Sadly, on Euro times playing on another server is not a realistic option atm.

The "no attacking uncaps" rule is so arbitrarily enforced that we would be honestly much better without it, even if it would mean backcapping, spawnraping, and shelling of fixed positions. If it were ever possible in the engine, "dynamic" ABC zones would take a lot of ambiguity out.

I've seen pilots getting kicked for attacking the main base even though this is explicitly allowed in the splash screen! Sometimes shelling enemy main is AWWWRIGHHHT, sometimes people are kicked even for firing arty between a just neutralized flag and the next, still uncappable flag (to prevent reinforcements from arriving). Sometimes you are required to pull back the instant a flag falls, sometimes you are allowed to make a major counteroffensive even though the flag has been uncap long since. Sometimes it's allowed to be outside the ABC but fire into it, sometimes it's instant kick.

Oh well. At least now you're allowed to use a tank to suppress a cappable flag even if you don't want to sacrifice said tank by moving it unsupported into a heavily built flagzone (which would require more than one person to cap anyway) and "too high" KDR in a single match is no longer enough to prove cheating alone.

---

I thought Damaso's antics were more entertaining than harmful, compared to the stunts that some "regulars" are allowed to pull. (Vehicle/kit stealing seems to be another rule that is also enforced very randomly.)

[SamusMaximus8492]

I had noticed Damaso's absence recently and I was a little disappointed to see this is the reason. I lurk these and 762's forums far more then I actually post. so I've always observed the various controversies surrounding his play style. I have to say I agree with some of his past bans, the early idiocy with tanks, and the blatant use of exploits come to mind, and I can truly see how this could poison his image in the eyes of the admins. Having said that, I've seen his play style become much more effective over the past months and aside from occasionally annoying tactics like the Ju-52's on Crete (which are against no rules I know of) I've seen his squad very clearly turn the tide of battle in favor of his team several times. A very close round on Port en Bessin and a round on Bastogne a few weeks ago come to mind.

I get how annoying his passive aggressiveness and immaturity can be, and I know how "out there" his views can get, but I'm legitimately sad to see this happen. He has really seemed to learn from his mistakes in the past, and evolved as a player. I'm not always in the mood for it, but his squad can be a lot of fun to play on, if only for a change of pace now and then, and the fact that his talking seems to encourage more use of VOIP from the squad members.

I've never had any trouble with any admins or other players, and I don't want to ruffle any feathers by weighing in on this, but this situation does seem unfair given everything... And echoing what PanzerKnacker and sheik said, it would be nice to see a more thorough explanation. And I also feel that with the reality that the uncap rule depends a lot on context which may be difficult to ascertain (the difference between someone spawn raping, and a firefight while retreating from a recently controlled flag for example), anymore then a kick in that circumstance is pretty harsh.

Ultimately it's no real skin off my back, and I'll continue playing on whatever servers there are, as I have without issue for years. But I will certainly miss the fun of joining up with his squad.

[CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE]

>be playing Ramelle as Yanks
>sneak onto the west side of the river after the Bridge flag has fallen, but stay down on the platform, not on street level, never firing into spawn points or flagzone, never entering flagzone
>get kicked for attacking uncap
>next time, play as Jerries
>see players ascending from the platform and charging the flagzone several minutes after Bridge has gone uncap
>report
>"they're not breaking any rules"
>"it's a forward flag, you must clear it"
Sadly, on Euro times playing on another server is not a realistic option atm.

The "no attacking uncaps" rule is so arbitrarily enforced that we would be honestly much better without it, even if it would mean backcapping, spawnraping, and shelling of fixed positions. If it were ever possible in the engine, "dynamic" ABC zones would take a lot of ambiguity out.

I've seen pilots getting kicked for attacking the main base even though this is explicitly allowed in the splash screen! Sometimes shelling enemy main is AWWWRIGHHHT, sometimes people are kicked even for firing arty between a just neutralized flag and the next, still uncappable flag (to prevent reinforcements from arriving). Sometimes you are required to pull back the instant a flag falls, sometimes you are allowed to make a major counteroffensive even though the flag has been uncap long since. Sometimes it's allowed to be outside the ABC but fire into it, sometimes it's instant kick.

Oh well. At least now you're allowed to use a tank to suppress a cappable flag even if you don't want to sacrifice said tank by moving it unsupported into a heavily built flagzone (which would require more than one person to cap anyway) and "too high" KDR in a single match is no longer enough to prove cheating alone.

---

I thought Damaso's antics were more entertaining than harmful, compared to the stunts that some "regulars" are allowed to pull. (Vehicle/kit stealing seems to be another rule that is also enforced very randomly.)

Pilots are not allowed to attack main base, they are allowed to attack static positions in main bases. A plane taking out artillery = perfectly fine. A plane sending 8 rockets maybe kinda sorta at artillery and blasting five infantrymen running around = not okay. It doesn't matter if it was an accident and the pilot missed the artillery, that's the risk you take. It's not the other team's job to make sure you aim your rockets correctly.

The no-attacking-uncap rule is to prevent firstly spawnraping of a control point the enemy cannot capture, and secondly to stop routine interference at flags that are away from the front line. There are plenty of maps that have no push code where you are free to attack rear flags, but if this rule was gone it would be no different from vanilla BF2 with machine guns camping the spawn buildings at rear flags, AT mines under all the vehicles, and all the other noobery that infuriates people trying to play as close to a real battle as possible.

I won't pretend that 762 rules are not arbitrarily enforced sometimes, but normal players seem to overestimate how much admins see of rule breaking, and it's no more than any other player. There's no magical way for me to tell if a guy who has been waiting for a tank for 10 minutes is telling the truth that some noob swiped his vehicle. I have to rely on screenshots after the fact and a player's good word. When you become an admin you quickly learn which players will be honest with you and which players are lying. There is definitely some bullshit from time to time and I've seen other admins act in ways that I wouldn't have, and by the same token I myself have kicked people for petty reasons in the past (i.e. repeated but accidental teamkills) and I try to watch this myself.

Some leeway must be given regarding the uncap rules on city maps like Ramelle. As I said, the rule is there to prevent repeated and sustained attacks on uncapturable objectives, but when the uncap flag is 50 meters from a cappable flag, this is impossible to police. "Push mode" really being "No counterattack mode" doesn't help this.

It's a shame most of the player base seems to think server rules are enforced randomly for the sake of being random, rather than admitting that almost nothing is black and white. If I see a guy steal a vehicle, I kick him. If I don't see it, but it's reported, then I have a dilemma. That's not "applying the rules randomly", it's applying them correctly as often as possible and doing my best not to boot someone who may have done nothing wrong.

[sheikyerbouti]

Another concern that I have always had with 762 is...

Why are you making rules that the dev team never put in place themselves?

Can't this community imagine if Lightning or Lobo (miss him to death) told them to stop with all their tom, dick and fuckery?


This is a sandbox game, don't ever tell me how to play...

[CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE]

Probably because the dev team put 100,000 hours into a mod five people would play if it was the exact same as vanilla BF2 with prettier grass in an earlier war.

[Wulfburk]

What? Seriously now, you lost your point. Who the hell you think you are? Me, and half this forum are telling you, the only difference between 762 and, for example, Hslan, is the fact that in 762 we get unjustified bans all the freaking time and one retarded rule worthy of the greatest retard in the retardland (no attack uncaps). The server did absolutely NOT change it from a"vanilla bf2 with prettier grass in an earlier war" to something "better".

For what is worth, personally your reputation has gone down the toilet.

[CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE]

Settle down sweetheart, I'm trying to answer some questions in this week's edition of Shitpile on 762.

[Damaso]

Settle down sweetheart, I'm trying to answer some questions in this week's edition of Shitpile on 762.

Start by answering mines Christie (if you dont mind of course.)

Here's more screens from their private discussion about what to do with " Bin Damaso Laden" 762 server terrorist:

Roughbeak planning to share my suicidal/love posts with the community so other people think im actually mental damaged and start to leave me:



I made a complain, and asked for an proper reply - this is how roughbeak and some 762 admins saw my in-game complains:





If you are german, or if you know german, there must be more ploting bullshit as well against me typed here:



Pureperversions mentioning some of my actions on the lead of the Teamwork squad:



Knallkop wondering what is the best for the community:



Seriously: how can a guy like me who only wants to get some fun with his squad, making some roleplay and funny stuff with no intention to harm anyone have this impact with the 762 admins? arent they mature enough to acept this? do they really see  a guy like me as an treat or something to fear? hell.

(again: i can be banned from this forum AND this treath can get locked as well due to the content i just posted... if such thing happens, i migh not be able to reply, and you can now be 100% sure than some 762 admins and other head people in FH2 are really abusing powers.)

[Wulfburk]

Settle down sweetheart, I'm trying to answer some questions in this week's edition of Shitpile on 762.

And that kind of behaviour makes certain we'll keep on having such threads next week.

Outstanding job mate.

[CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE]

Damaso:

I didn't play FH2 for about 3 months so I wasn't really around for a lot of this. Nor do I understand German so I don't know what some of that is saying. But there are threads for admins to discuss players to keep an eye on, that's nothing special. If you see a guy who has a racist squad name or is teamkilling or whatever, you post up his name for other admins to pay special attention to. You'll note a clear lack of my name on any of those screenshots. You will easily find instances on both forums of me downplaying complaints about you and standing up for you. I can't speak for any of those admins, you'll have to talk to them yourself.

Seriously: how can a guy like me who only wants to get some fun with his squad, making some roleplay and funny stuff with no intention to harm anyone have this impact with the 762 admins? arent they mature enough to acept this? do they really see  a guy like me as an treat or something to fear? hell.

I can appreciate you don't try to intentionally wreck anything but you repeatedly if innocently did that. No one kicked you for making commando squads to sneak behind the enemy or anything like that, but what you have to realize is that it's real fucking tough to get 100 people from across the world to get along and have fun together. We all have to share the server. We have to take turns in tanks and planes and kits. When your squad takes all tanks on a map and sits in main for 10 minutes waiting for everyone to have one, that's not sharing. You might be having fun, but there's 50 other people on the server that aren't.

Many people have tried to explain this to you, so I don't see why I would do any better at it. Admins talking internally about whether your antics are disrupting game play is not a grand conspiracy to ruin your FH2 experience. It's a discussion born out of endless complaints in-game and on forums about your squad's behavior. We all want as many players for FH2 as possible, and the decision to permaban someone (which is not my decision) from a server is not a decision made lightly. There is no hatred of "teamwork", because what you do is usually not teamwork. It's squadwork. That should be the name of your fireteam. Teamwork is working as a team, with all players. What you do is commandeer all assets on a map and waste them by spending 10 minutes waiting for everyone to have a tank or a plane (ten minutes where the rest of the team is without vehicles) and then doing something stupid with them. Doing stupid things with vehicles is not against the rules, but wasting assets like that, repeatedly despite a dozen warnings not to, results in someone finally having to take action.

The 10 people in your squad may have fun flying 10 Junkers on Crete and yeah, it makes for some good screenshots. The 54 other people on the server who can't land on the island or take off in their planes because you are treating the server like your own personal playground aren't having fun. You wouldn't like it if you wanted to make a Panzer squad on Villers-Bocage but you couldn't get a tank because another squad had them all, parked in a corner five miles from the action, the SL giving a long-winded speech while the rest of the team is massacre, screaming at the admins to do something about it.

[Matthew_Baker]

where do I start?

@OP
It sucks to hear when someone decides to boycott FH2 for any reason. The player base is small and although there can be a lot of frustration, I don't think it's anything that can't be solved by a bit of discussion from both sides. I'd urge you to talk to some of the admins. Honestly most are very polite and understanding. I've only ever had a few problems with 762, and when that happened Odium requested I make an account on their forum and PM him. It was a very civilized and calm discussion where a lot of confusion was resolved. I'm honestly impressed with most of their patience. Just look through the all chat of an average round, or the 'kicked/banned' section of the 762 forums and you'll see what they have to put up with. Being a server admin yourself I'm sure you understand better than anyone, and I'm sure if you find the time to make a civilized, non attacking post to them they will have the patience to talk with you about it.

@762 rage
See most of Christie's posts. They sum up pretty well how hard it is to admin and server and how admins are not omnipotent and far from mistake free. Everyone kind of needs to drop their ego in order to have any type of civilized discussion, there are culprits on both sides. As for complaining about the rules, this is far from the place to do it. This forum has nothing to do with specific server rules and posting your problems about them here is futile. It's not hard to make an account on 762-ranking.de and post your opinions about their server in their forums. It takes all of 2 seconds. If you actually wanna have a civilized discussion about the theory behind the rules and if they should be in or not, I'd suggest posting it there or at least starting a new thread free from bias and opinions on specific admins and incidents.

@Damaso
For some reason I can't see the leaked screens from the 762 admin forums except the last one. And if I'm being honest the last screens don't seem like a conspiracy or proof of a plot against you to any extent.
I'm with Christie in not thinking it's at all weird for admins to make a thread about a person to keep an eye on them. It's a valid question to ask whether or not one person is ruining the gameplay for the rather small community. Especially with someone who wastes as many assets as I've seen you do. That's just admins being responsible imo. To break it down:
Rough starts by linking to posts that you yourself made public on a forum knowingly and willingly. Whether he's making fun of you or not is irrelevant.
Odium seems to be diffusing a situation and advising other admins to do the same; a seemingly responsible decision.
(Then German that I don't understand and apparently you don't either so it's wrong to make assumptions about it, I'd suggest google translate when you have time)
Then the last thing I read is knallopp asking a legitimate question. Whether you are making gameplay less fun for others to the point where you need to be banned. Imo a permaban is a bit harsh but they've dealt with you more than I have and after seeing those screens it only reinforces my thought that they've carefully weighed their decision on this matter.
After speaking with odium myself about my own complaints on 762 and seeing your past posts and the past ways you've handled certain situations, I'm willing to lean toward the assumption that odium has given you very patient and level headed answers to your complains and questions (as he did with me) and as such, I'd back his decisions on the matter.

Personally this thread doesn't seem to be serving much of a purpose other than people venting their own frustrations about specific incidents that would be better served on the actual server's forum.

Hope to see you change your mind sometime soon ajappat. The more the merrier in FH

[x4fun ODIUM]

Good Morning Gentlemen,

let me try and answer in separate replies to the many different questions I read here. I thank you guys for constructive criticism, as said before, I am not a fan of the crossed rule either.

But since I have many players on our server and I alone could never administrate that AND have a life, I have to rely on volunteers like Christie.Front.Drive, Roughbeak, Sandre and all the others that put in hours of their good effort and spare time. They voted for this rule they have to enforce - and, yes take the blame for. It may be changed, but only if these very volunteers vote for it.

If the server rule about crossed flags is unclear to you, you may take a look here, I keep explaining this rule to players and admins who also may go wrong and have a bad day.
http://www.762-ranking.de/forum/showthread.php?1161-Crossed-flags-HOW-TO-and-WHERE-TO-GO&p=11069#post11069

I try, now that we have it, to make it as easy to understand as possible. The same goes for all other server rules on [762]. If you think our rules are hard to understand, check the server rules for tournaments like Forgotten Honor, World at War or some Project Reality servers.

Our rules are in place not because admins suffer from megalomania or want to create "their" game and annoy players. We have them because we see players asking for them. Not today, not last year, but since 2009 now. That is when we started.

We are humans, the dealing (admins) and receiving (player) side. As said before, you are free to complain and will be answered. But you know, there is a [762] forum and that is the right place to do that. Reasonable complaints will receive reasonable replies. Guess what, we also remove MANY unjustified and even some justified bans. Why? Many things can be solved when admins and players talk about it a day later, apologize and make an effort to get along. But with an attitude like this:

[...]
This is a sandbox game, don't ever tell me how to play...

There is no point in talking.

About Damaso - think about if you would want a player that disruptive on your servers. His bans were justified, what he does not show in his screenshots is of course that I bent over backwards to defend him against the other admin's concerns. That is what the first screenshot he ever "leaked" here was about, you will see that if you read it. I said in it that we can and should only ban him for breaks of server rules, we owe that fairness to any player.

About Kirky12 - Seeing these new screenshots I am reassured that blocking him from all our admin forums and removing his rights was the right choice. I like his reply to my goodbye PM sent to Kirky12: "I did not know it was an internal area, let's not be smart here". No, Kirky12, that is why you have to log in this Serveradmin forum with your nickname, that is why you don't see it as a public player. Thank you Kirky12, but now please leave and find some other place to stay.

Before Damaso starts anything more about why there should not be internal areas to discuss - read a book about politics, if you please. Try Macchiavelli, maybe also contemporary books like Niklas Luhmann's books about system theory and you will see why you need non-public areas to discuss. If you wish any practical examples, take a look at what happened to the German party "Die Piraten", they are a prime example for actors in the public who think discussing everything in public would be a good idea.

Last and final note. There are people putting in hours and effort (and yes, surprise, money, lots of it) into our project [762]. Giving them criticism is a good thing. Flaming them, like you, ajappat and sheikyerbouti and even testing their good will and patience like Damaso does (I won't even try to figure out his reasons, that is up to every reader of his forum posts here) - does but one thing: demotivate them.

It demotivates our admins and sponsors like your constant complaining, ranting and negativity in this forum has done with many players and developers of FH2. Think about that all you get here: a mod for a very very old game, that is free, that offers game servers costing money and have no advertising and no strings attached. All this is fueled by volunteer time, moneyand work are something that one should support and not flame at like a 12 year old child (or 17 year old child...).

Dear Ajappat, dear Sheikyerbouti and dear everyone who feels there is no reasoning with [762] admins, please, by all means, get together, start something new, revive HSLAN, WOLFgaming, suport MarkussX with his russian server, support Forgotten Honor as donors for their public server or as mappers - just DO something to get FH2 going and give us a competing public server for our [762] project. Competition is always good for business, it makes all contenders develop and improve.

I would be very surprised if you did -  because that requires serious effort, work and enthusiasm. I have seen that in many of my admins (thank you Christie.Front.Drive) and OTHER player's posts. I don't see it in any of yours.

Good day.

[ajappat]

Good post odium, I completely understand what you are saying. It's just that, I had my go at "doing something" for FH2 and it didn't end too well, so I'm not bothering anymore. When hslan started having problems with active admins, I joined them, payed my share on server upkeep, idled hundreds of hours on empty server to get games going on, had admin tools open always when at home and tried in general to make it as good server as I could. I see we were the minority, since people chose to play on 762. I'm not doing it again, specially as I believe it's pretty much lost cause now.

I came back, hoping I could enjoy 762, but it didn't happen. And that made me kind of mad, because as I earlier said, I still like FH2.

Edit: typo.

[x4fun ODIUM]

Dear Ajappat,

thank you for that post. If you like to improve our admin work (maybe even by joining us and giving suggestions after you've been sitting in our boat for a while) - give me a PM on 762-ranking.de.

I will send you a reply that sums up the tasks of a [762] server admin and the job to do. Maybe taking a look inside could change something for you. Pureperversions of HSLAN is part of our team now + you would have fellow Finns in the team that can spam you with some Suomi and bid you a welcome.

I am always looking for non-German admins for our team, for our Speakeasy TS3 channel, we are many Germans and I know the player base has to offer more than Germans. There is a trial time for new admins, so you can still decide whether being a [762] admin does it for you or not.