Author Topic: Haag declares croatian generals guilty  (Read 1925 times)

Offline PanzerKnacker

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Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« on: 15-04-2011, 18:04:47 »
Trial Chamber I of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) today convicted two Croatian Generals, Ante Gotovina and Mladen Markač, and acquitted one, Ivan Čermak, of charges of crimes against humanity and violations of the laws or customs of war committed by the Croatian forces during the Operation Storm military campaign between July and September 1995.

Gotovina, who held the rank of Colonel General in the Croatian army and was the Commander of the Split Military district during the indictment period, and Markač who held the position of Assistant Minister of Interior in charge of Special Police matters, were convicted of persecution, deportation, plunder, wanton destruction, two counts of murder, inhumane acts and cruel treatment. They were sentenced to 24 and 18 years’ imprisonment respectively. They were acquitted of charges of inhumane acts / forcible transfer. Čermak, who was the Commander of the Knin Garrison, was acquitted of all charges.



here, thought it deserved a mention.
The majority of the croatian population considers them not guilty.


He was not wrong. Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk logistics.

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #1 on: 15-04-2011, 18:04:26 »
Took them a while.

May they have an unpleasant stay.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline Paasky

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #2 on: 15-04-2011, 20:04:52 »
Would this be a good time to sing some Haag blues?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSCJxxI83v4
It's half naked people on boats. That's all.
Here in Finland we call that "summer".

Offline PanzerKnacker

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #3 on: 16-04-2011, 10:04:35 »
Do realise that this verdict declares the whole Operation Storm, the highlight of the Homeland War, a joint criminal act with the sole purpose of destroying and deportation of Serbian people. It's a slap in the face to all of the men and women involved!
He was not wrong. Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk logistics.

Offline Paasky

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #4 on: 16-04-2011, 10:04:27 »
Maybe the men and women shouldn't have destroyed and deported all those Serbs then?
It's half naked people on boats. That's all.
Here in Finland we call that "summer".

Offline Ciupita

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #5 on: 16-04-2011, 11:04:07 »
Do realise that this verdict declares the whole Operation Storm, the highlight of the Homeland War, a joint criminal act with the sole purpose of destroying and deportation of Serbian people. It's a slap in the face to all of the men and women involved!

Serbs got their punishment too. Remember that.

Offline Bang0o

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #6 on: 16-04-2011, 12:04:52 »
what the hell is this whole balkan war stuff about? can somebody give me a short introduction of what happened? i friend of mine is serving currently down there for the bundeswehr. greetings, if you see him.

Offline Ciupita

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #7 on: 16-04-2011, 12:04:19 »
what the hell is this whole balkan war stuff about? can somebody give me a short introduction of what happened? i friend of mine is serving currently down there for the bundeswehr. greetings, if you see him.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jugoslawienkriege

Offline PanzerKnacker

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #8 on: 16-04-2011, 12:04:16 »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Storm

after you read the intro, the trial was about crimes commited in this particular operation
« Last Edit: 16-04-2011, 12:04:43 by Master Chief »
He was not wrong. Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk logistics.

Offline Battlefieldfan45 (CroPanzer)

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #9 on: 16-04-2011, 13:04:16 »
Like our whole nation went into rebellion after that was decleared.
We want our war heroes back

 
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Offline Fuchs

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #10 on: 16-04-2011, 15:04:41 »
You will get them back.

In 24 years.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline PanzerKnacker

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #11 on: 16-04-2011, 15:04:26 »
in 20 years! Time awaiting trial counts too!
He was not wrong. Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk logistics.

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #12 on: 16-04-2011, 15:04:03 »
True. And one only got 18 years, so 15 for him.

I can see why Croatians see them as heroes but I also very clearly see the reason why they where sentenced to this. After all they weren't that nice to the Serbs.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline PanzerKnacker

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #13 on: 16-04-2011, 16:04:14 »
Maybe, but one who knows the case, also notices that the verdict is actually a copy - paste of the prosecutor's speech. For example. Gotovina is accused that he shelled Knin with too much power and destroyed a large portion of buildings. First of all, the Croatian army suffered from a lack of ammo, from the beginning to the end of the conflict, so there was no spare ammo for useless goals. Plus, witnesses report that only 1 building was directly hit, and that only a small number of others was damaged. Second of all, such orders were never given. That was also proven but the judge disregarded it.
Then you have the count of persecution. The Serb leaders organized the evacuation of the Serbian people long before the operation started, they even knew about it for 1 year before it was put in action. Croatian forces encountered them, the marching lines of both civilians and soldiers evacuating into Bosnia, but never fired upon them, because #1 general shortage of ammo, and #2 the army was strictly ordered not to fire at the Serbs.


In the end, the verdict is based only on the Brijuni meeting transcripts, and the generals are only accused of being part of a criminal act, and not a legal military operation which it was. Kinda undermines the whole concept of the country if you see that it's the operation that marked the end of the war.
He was not wrong. Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk logistics.

Offline Stefan

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Re: Haag declares croatian generals guilty
« Reply #14 on: 16-04-2011, 17:04:13 »
so what about the UCK that was a terrorist group and then suddenly not, cried out GENOCIDE in 1999, and then ethnicly cleansed the serbs from kosovo under the eyes of nato?

i can give about .... 28475 more examples. either rules go for everyone or no one.
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