Author Topic: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)  (Read 3084 times)

Offline PanzerKnacker

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Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« on: 06-01-2011, 20:01:46 »
The live fire tests were conducted in the fall of 1944 at Kubinka, during the course of which the following results were obtained:

«1. The quality of armor on the „Tiger-B‛ tank, in comparison with the armor on the „Tiger-I,‛ and „Panther,‛ tanks, as well as early production „Ferdinand‛ self-propelled gun, has sharply deteriorated. The first individual impacts caused cracks and spalling in the armor of the „Tiger-B‛ tank. Groups of shell impacts (3–4 shells) caused large-scale spalling and fractures in the armor.

2. Weak weld seams appeared characteristic of all hull and turret joints. Despite careful workmanship, the seams held up to shell impacts significantly worse than they did in analogous constructions on the „Tiger-I,‛ and „Panther,‛ tanks, as well as the „Ferdinand‛ self-propelled gun.

3. Impacts of 3–4 armor-piercing or high-explosive fragmentation shells from 152, 122, or 100 mm artillery pieces caused cracks, spalling and destruction of the weld seams in the tank's 100–190 mm thick frontal armor plates at ranges of 500–1000 metres. The impacts disrupted the operation of the transmission and took the tank out of service as an irrevocable loss.

4. Armor-piercing projectiles from the BS-3 (100 mm) and A-19 (122 mm) gun completely penetrated when impacting the edges or joints of the „Tiger-B‛ tank's front hull plates at ranges of 500–600 metres.

5. Armor-piercing projectiles from the BS-3 (100 mm) and A-19 (122 mm) gun completely penetrated the „Tiger-B‛ tank's front turret plate at ranges of 1000–1500 metres.

6. 85 mm armor-piercing projectiles from the D-5 and S-53 gun failed to penetrate the tank's front hull plates or cause any structural damage at distances of 300 metres.

7. The tank's side armor plates were notable for their sharply unequal durability in comparison with the frontal plates and appeared to be the most vulnerable part of the tank's hull and turret.

8. The tank's hull and turret side plates were penetrated by armor-piercing projectiles from the domestic 85 mm and American 76 mm guns at ranges of 800–2000 metres.

9. The tank's hull and turret side plates were not penetrated by armor-piercing projectiles from the domestic 76 mm guns (ZJS-3 and F-34).

10. American 76 mm armor-piercing projectiles penetrated the „Tiger-B‛ tank's side plates at ranges 1.5 to 2 times greater the domestic 85 mm armor-piercing projectiles.»
He was not wrong. Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk logistics.

Offline Josh094

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #1 on: 06-01-2011, 20:01:52 »
Yay :D

KT is really overrated anyway.


Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #2 on: 06-01-2011, 20:01:18 »
Allow me=



Masterchief, can you please provide the link where you found that?

I so need to use this on WOT forums to crush LITTLE GERMAN FANBOYS DREAMS
-i am fairly sure that if they took porn off the internet, there would only be one website left and it would be called bring back the porn "Perry cox, Scrubs.

Offline Desertfox

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #3 on: 06-01-2011, 21:01:34 »
The KT is all face, nothing extremely special behind it. Though because of that it is very well known.

Offline luftwaffe.be

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #4 on: 06-01-2011, 21:01:51 »
I remember that these test where done rather inappropriate by the red army, as they kept hitting the tank on the same spots over and over again, starting with the lowest ranges first. (should ofcourse been done the other way around) 

Initially, the red army (based on this test) did not understand why the germans swapped for tiger I to tiger II production at all, since they believed it was inferior.

After the war they did better tests, on which the tank also has been given better results.

But I'm sure there is someone on this forum who knows more details about this then me .

Offline :| Hi

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #5 on: 06-01-2011, 21:01:30 »
Allow me=



Masterchief, can you please provide the link where you found that?

I so need to use this on WOT forums to crush LITTLE GERMAN FANBOYS DREAMS

I do it all the time ingame

[2:06:54 PM] Tolga: cant use tha shit underwater -Tolga on the G3

Offline Butcher

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #6 on: 07-01-2011, 11:01:42 »
... and at kursk 1500 tigers were destroyed.    soviet russians  ::)
He got banned for our sins. He was not the member FH forums deserved, he was the member we needed.

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #7 on: 07-01-2011, 21:01:26 »
That's called mid-identification, Butcher.  The US army claimed destroyed more tiger tanks in the course of the war than were ever produced.  Panzer IVs with schurzen were especially mistaken to be tigers, but also, often any german tank was thought of as a "Tiger."

Offline Butcher

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #8 on: 07-01-2011, 21:01:14 »
as far as i know about 350 german tanks were destroyed at kursk.

but for statistics and testing you cant just rely on all russian sources. same can count on german sources sometimes (warsaw uprising losses were for example recorded as losses to the russians).

as for the shooting grounds its in a non combat area and they hit the same spot at short distances...
He got banned for our sins. He was not the member FH forums deserved, he was the member we needed.

Offline HappyFunBall

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #9 on: 07-01-2011, 23:01:15 »
One of the explanations (though by no means the only explanation) was the poor and declining quality of German manufacturing during the war. The Tiger II may have had a superior design, but it was the victim of poor workmanship. This problem was prevalent right down the line, from the steel manufacturing, right down to the final assembly.

This was caused by the Nazi's reliance on slave and conscript labor from occupied countries where poor workmanship was normal, and outright sabotage was common. It was also due to the scarcity of resources. After 1943 when the Nazi's began to lose ground, both these problems steadily worsened.

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #10 on: 07-01-2011, 23:01:44 »
At kursk 1000 german tanks where destroyed and 5000 russian ones IIRC

but this figure made many to think that for every german tank 5-6 russian ones where killed


The battle of kursk was the sign for the russians to update there T34's. Wich they got only half a year later.

It should be noted however, that half of those losses, where light tanks.
The amounts of losses per side changed drasticly after Kursk

We can pretty much believe no source  at all in terms of eastfront. Germany and russia always massivly exagerrated there losses and the losses they inflicted to the enemy
-i am fairly sure that if they took porn off the internet, there would only be one website left and it would be called bring back the porn "Perry cox, Scrubs.

Offline PanzerKnacker

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #11 on: 07-01-2011, 23:01:34 »
lol don't try thousands, try millions, this isn't getting you to look naive enough.


The bulk of what russians lost were:

T34
SU85
KV


which is what their army had lol

Germans lost:

PzIV
PzIII
Shitloads of Panthers
Few Tigers
Ferdinands
StuGs
He was not wrong. Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk logistics.

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #12 on: 07-01-2011, 23:01:30 »
The personell losses on the german side where massive aswel.


(also at prokharovka the Russians deployed 31 churchills :v)
-i am fairly sure that if they took porn off the internet, there would only be one website left and it would be called bring back the porn "Perry cox, Scrubs.

Offline PanzerKnacker

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #13 on: 07-01-2011, 23:01:06 »
did they blow up? ^^
get back to grinding that JagdPanzer <3
He was not wrong. Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk logistics.

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Why was TheTa0123 right about KT (sad face)
« Reply #14 on: 07-01-2011, 23:01:37 »
did they blow up? ^^
get back to grinding that JagdPanzer <3
Yes sir-e


one churchill got disabled, one got destroyed by friendly fire. 2 of these churchills ambushed 3 PZIV and destroyed them.
This is what this book says, basicly a complication of the whole eastfront
-i am fairly sure that if they took porn off the internet, there would only be one website left and it would be called bring back the porn "Perry cox, Scrubs.