Author Topic: Warsaw Uprising 1944  (Read 33460 times)

Offline [KamiKaze] Destroyer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 352
    • View Profile
Warsaw Uprising 1944
« on: 04-04-2012, 19:04:25 »
Hello :)

Well, i recently checked on how FH2 is doing, and i found pure infantry maps somwhat lacking, so i decided i will try to make one myself :) Now, dont get me wrong, i love tank maps, but nothing is better then some close combat sometimes, and my personal perfect ratio is 50% Tank maps, 50% Infantry, best if they switch every round. So, here is my first map, i hope i didint screw something up at this stage as the map is pretty much completed, things that remain i will write at bottom ;P


The setting is Warszawa Uprising 1944, idea in short: Germans assault the partisant (Armia Krajowa/AK/"Home Army") position, while partisants try to stop them. 4 Flags in plans currently. A push map with 4 diffrent kind of combat envirement (Few days ago while searching for inspiration i read an extreme tragical story, so tragical that i couldint finish it, most terrible is that it was true, eitherway, i used some testemonials towards the gameplay ideas and tried to make them as i imagined the wittness words);

1) German assault from open terrain on church, Partisants have access to high and low positions for riflemans and 1 or 2 machinegun positions as defence. Church is the flag point here.
“Colleagues were perishing, new ones were sent to us. I had stupid luck, maybe because when Fels forced me to action, he wished me to ‘die like a dog’.” (Schenk is laughing). “I don't think he liked me. Our group of assault engineers was called then the Himmelfahrtskommando (Commando of Ascension), because we always were first, and the Poles were shooting, no one knew from where. The bullet whizzes and you fly to heaven. We quickly learned from clever Poles how to hide. They could shoot from under a slightly risen roofing tile. Many fought in German uniforms and spoke German very well. We couldn't wear our metal helmets as Poles were wearing them too. We were afraid we would start shooting at our own troops." - Mathias Schenk, 18 Mathias Schenk Sturmpionier (assault engineer).
Gameplay Aim:
I want this to give a feeling from german side as an assault (As Mathias Schenk testemonie he stated, The officer screamed us to run forward, those that didint do so he shot in the back). And i want from polish side to give feeling of desperate defending, i want the church to feel important and i want constant german assault, only one stug for germans that i plan will give little ability to spawn rape (as there are many diffrent rifle positions to fire from).

2) A close combat struggle in ruins, with flag position at a barricaded building (A Bank, supposed to look like one anyways, hope it does!) and 2 machine gun positions.
“Today I don't know if we blew up the State Securities Printing House or maybe the Polish Bank. It was somewhere downtown. We couldn't conquer that target for a long time. They told us to dig a tunnel. We dug in pairs, wearing only underpants. We changed in the fore. When I was in front, I smelled a strange odor and then my colleague stopped taking soil from me. I crawled to him; he was dead. The tunnel exited into a cellar. I heard Poles. They probably took it over..." - Mathias Schenk
Gameplay Aim:
This one is ment to be pretty much chaotic ruin combat, with a lot ruins laid out all over the place, it allows both Poles and Germans to find a hiding spot, at the end there is a barricaded building which is a flag and Germans are supposed to assault.

3) House-Alley-House combat, flag position at a fortified partisant corner building with at least 4 good defending spots.
Gameplay Aim:
Flag 3 is based on words "We went from house to house", Germans will have to secure house, and then go to next one, running straight forward towards the flag i try to make very hard with good shooting positions at the flag house in the end of this one. The house consist of some very good shooting spots, if they or not ones atm i will make them good ones ;) As that is important towards gameplay here.

4) Close-combat, Really close combat, bagnets and knifes might be a fierce weapon at this point, and last AK stand at their headquarters.
“In Warsaw I partook in 19 fights on knives and bayonets..." - Mathias Schenk
Gameplay Aim:
This might be very intresting part, it consist of around... 40-60 meters of only housing, ruins of houses. The Axis player has to break through houses and secure positions to allow his mates advance, very intense combats. Deeper idea is = Germans try to find out the Poles hidout, and they have to do so by breaking through buildings. I aim to make bagnets useful, together with pistols to express the desperation in the fights and i have in mind Schenk's statement about the knife fights and amount of them, 19... that is a lot. At the end, there is last hold, with semi-good firing positions (becouse they are so obvious = Semi) simillar to the beggining with church but a lot shorter.

Whole Mathias Schenk testimony can be read here: http://www.warsawuprising.com/witness/schenk.htm (But i warn you, dont read it before dinner or if you dont want to have nightmares for a week... But it is the truth, and that is maybe the hardest part, but also very important to understand and pass on.)

Some statistics:
Strenght of sides was around 50,000 partisants and 20,000 Germans, around 10,000 of partizants was armed. Weekly losses of German troops was around 1,250. Overall casaulties were around 15,000 to 20,000 partizants and 15,000 to 20,000 German soldiers, around 310 tanks/armored German vechicles and around 340 German trucks and cars, and around 250,000 civilians.


Some photos i used for inspiration/accuracy;
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Warsaw_Uprising_by_Chrzanowski_-_Henio_Roma_-_14828.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Destroyed_Warsaw%2C_capital_of_Poland%2C_January_1945.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Warsaw_Uprising_by_Tomaszewski_-_Mazowiecka_1.jpg
http://www.v-like-vintage.net/en/photo_details/61775_photo_Warsaw+Uprising+German+soldiers/
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS7XTt9jApa75LbspZ7VlKEsPVI2tJXz-uAGej6rUe-uhIDCtn9dOeI7t8r
http://www.friendsofpoland.com/Pictures/Widok%20ogolny%20Muranow%201945.jpg
http://www.stefanmucha.com/MEDIAC/400_0/MEDIA/ST_JANA~CATHEDRAL.jpg
http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/5/3522/z3522025X,Barykada-na-ul--Moniuszki-przy-wylocie-na-pl--Napoleona-.jpg

I will be happy to post ingame screens as soon as i figure out the spawns! :)

So, i post this before i can post screens becouse that i have few questions, i hope that someone can help me out with some tips/info :)

a) Is it possible to easly make a soldier into a static object? Any idea where to start? My goal is to place some dead bodies for atmosphare porposes :)

b) What is the easiest way to edit textures? (i dont really need to make new ones for this, all i need is in FH2 allready, i just need to manipulate them, for exemple, paint a red & white ribbon over German helmet)

c) How to make costum kits?

d) Is it possible to make random weapon for kits? Like in FH1 the tank drivers would randomly get either a pistol or a smg when choosed a tank crew kit.

e) How to place mgs and other items? Should i browse my FH2 in-editor folder (objects/weapons/emplaced/de/) and use mg34_bipod? or mg34_bipod_ai? Is there a diffrence? And is this a right place for deplayed weapons? (the ones that player cannot move but can use)

If any of those answers are in tutorial then please redirect me there, might have missed something :)

Virgin Screens (Note; Map is WIP):

Just around the corner from Axis starting position, notice the church (first Allied flag) in the distance.

Few steps further towards the Church, the terrain looks crappy, only one texture atm, so dont look at it.

"Run for it? Or maybe not?", told him not to drive after vodka.

"Chaaaarge!", again, dont look at the terrain. ;P

"Did that stone just moved?", view from the church tower. This is the point i used to adjust the fog, and will use to re-balance the map if needed, the shorter the fog the bigger advancement for Germans in theory.

A improvised barricade, tried to follow the acual photographs.

Somebody put in wrong gear and crashed into a house, i personally like how the turret is sticking out from the window of the ruined building on the other side.

From the inside of the first Allied flag strong hold, Allied will have ability to shot from side windows while only entrence is the one visible on the screen (from behind of church).

I told you, Close Combat, Yupp,[http://postimage.org/image/fc6bx4hxz/] really close, making your bagnet ready might be a good idea[/url].

Partisant headquarters from point of view of attacker, if one does get so far. As you can see i barely did, breaking my leg on the way... Without a single enemy, but dont worry, it was becouse i was checking for possible exploits when i jumped from that roof...

[SOLVED]EDIT Help, i am stuck... I cant choose Kits for my map. I go to --> General --> Level Settings, and there are no teams to choose from for team 1 and team 2 :/ I can choose kits through, but cant proceed as it says, "No fields can be empty"... Nevermind, i solve it ;)

[SOLVED]EDIT 2 Hell, i run into second problem, i cant see my map on the local server list when i try to create ;P any ideas?
« Last Edit: 07-04-2012, 22:04:01 by [KamiKaze] Destroyer »

Offline kummitus

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 630
    • View Profile
    • CMP Gaming
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #1 on: 05-04-2012, 00:04:58 »
for showing up in game check the .desc file in the info folder. check stock maps how it should look like
CMP Gaming

Offline [KamiKaze] Destroyer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 352
    • View Profile
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #2 on: 05-04-2012, 04:04:13 »
Got it to work by modifing that .desc file, the map shows now, that was helpful :) One step forward! But another problem... Crash when i was loading the map, any ideas? ;P Any common mistakes i could look into? (code 2976) :)

EDIT ValeryKic, i dont understand the message you wrote to me, i am not German, and i cannot replay as you were logged as guest, so, send again in English please ;P
« Last Edit: 05-04-2012, 04:04:14 by [KamiKaze] Destroyer »

Offline titsmcgee852

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #3 on: 05-04-2012, 11:04:33 »
Awesome! I posted a thread on this just the other week. Will you be creating another faction or just using US/British soldier models/guns?

Offline kummitus

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 630
    • View Profile
    • CMP Gaming
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #4 on: 05-04-2012, 15:04:15 »
CMP Gaming

Offline [KamiKaze] Destroyer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 352
    • View Profile
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #5 on: 05-04-2012, 19:04:04 »
That looks very well done Titsmcgee, intresting coincidence i must say, unfortunatly i have not played FHW :/ I didint knew that such thing exist even, played hundreds of hours of FH1 through.

The skins look very good aswell, but like it was also noticed in that thread the helmets are lacking white-red marks, also i think that painted PW (Looks like a P with Anchor on the end, for those that done know it) would make the map more realistic, could put it here and there. Also on the Polish flag maybe.

Poles were also using a underground production sub-machine gun "Blyskawica" (Lightning) that looked simillar to a Sten sub-machine gun in terms of looks (Acually i just found out it was an upgrade of sten gun) exept the ammunition was inserted from below not from side. More info can be found here. The statistics of it looks better then for exemple a mass produced MP40, beign smaller in size and firing bullets at faster rate.... And having in mind its an underground production, 2000 pieces made total between 43 to 45!

The hetzger tank destroyer (i think that was the one?) texture looks great, shouldint be too hard to make i think? I had/have in mind the two panters captured by patrisants too, "WP" and "Pudel", but i consider those for another map, depending on how this one goes.

And the clothing of FHW warsaw uprising models i think the camo jacket was not that often in warsaw, i mean it was city enviroment so it seems that standard black or civilian clothets (civilian clothing would fit perfectly at 20-30% ratio), and those are also mostly visible on the photographs from the uprising. :)

Kummitus, thanks! How did i miss that...? Anyways, that link solved all my problems, i will be posting first in-game screenshots in matter of 30-40 minutes.

First post updated.
« Last Edit: 05-04-2012, 21:04:11 by [KamiKaze] Destroyer »

Offline [KamiKaze] Destroyer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 352
    • View Profile
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #6 on: 05-04-2012, 21:04:24 »
Screens added / First post updated.

Note, WIP, terrain i will have to remake, it looks to much like a clone. Any tips on how to? ;P

Offline titsmcgee852

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #7 on: 06-04-2012, 10:04:14 »
Have you seen the movie The Pianist? I highly recommend it, as a large portion of it is about the Warsaw uprising. It could give you a better idea on the types of terrain and layout of the ghetto.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0253474/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL8Qs9hpimk&feature=fvwrel (in particular about 1:02 in that video)
Great job nonetheless.

Offline Kwiot

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 793
  • POLISH ACE
    • View Profile
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #8 on: 06-04-2012, 15:04:37 »
Jews uprising in ghetto wasn't the Warsaw Uprising...

Offline jan_kurator

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 2.546
  • Magnificent Mustard
    • View Profile
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #9 on: 06-04-2012, 22:04:53 »

Offline [KamiKaze] Destroyer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 352
    • View Profile
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #10 on: 06-04-2012, 22:04:39 »
Yes, i have seen that one titsmcgee :) And indeed, i now see that i need some bricks scattered on the ground, any idea where i find those? I know i have seen them on one map ingame.

Colour of the ground should also be more grey then brown i guess. Very intresting video jan_kurator, and it will be handy when i begin to work on terrain in 1 or 2 days :)

Is there any modeler/texturer out there who would like to help? :) I can do it myself too, but it would take way longer, for an experienced modeler/texturer should be very easy job, here is list of what is needed:

[Texture] German helmet with band around it in Red and White colours.

[Texture] German helmet with the Warsaw Uprising partisant emblem.

[Texture] German standard uniform with a Red and White ribbon around his right arm.

[Texture + Model] Transparent texture of the PW emblem (Warsaw Uprising Partisant mark), so i can put it on walls freely and a bit everywhere.

[Texture + Model] Polish underground made sub-machine gun "Blyskawica", should be simple and i think StenGun model could be used after some little modifications.

[Texture + Model] A civilian uniform for one or two of the kits.

[Texture] Panter tank with "Pudel" written on the right front side (from POV of tank) and PW emblem, together with painted polish flag on the turrent and on the front part of the tank.

Offline psykfallet

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 578
    • View Profile
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #11 on: 06-04-2012, 23:04:15 »
Is it based on any sort of real layout of the city? Also keep in mind more destruction was caused after the uprising than by it as the Germans decided to destroy the whole city, so It shouldn't be totally destroyed.



Offline [KamiKaze] Destroyer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 352
    • View Profile
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #12 on: 07-04-2012, 22:04:45 »
From what i know, before uprising a big part of Warsaw was destroyed, the picture of the cathedral (that i linked in my first post) is after war made. During uprising left part of town was destroyed in around 25% (dont know how much before uprising), old town during the heaviest fights of uprising was destroyed by 100% pretty much, with only ONE building standing (Bank, one of fortified positions of the partizants was hit itself by 8-10 bombs). After the war, like you say, an order was issued by Hitler to burn the remains, this part lead to destruction of another 30%, reaching 80%-90% of whole city in total.

Germans used heavy altilery during the fights versus partizants, 600mm train altilery, stukas and others.
Facts: An order to partisants was issued not to waste ammunition on planes, hell, even more, there was a poster of propaganda that incuraged Poles to use one bullet for one german, however one polish machine gun station still fired at a Stuka putting it down.

About the map and layout, well, my philosophy is like this, backround based on facts, locations a mix of facts (inspiration from acual photos, but not 100% exacly), for exemple, church is based on photos of destroyed church, however i do not know if there was any fortified position in reality, i know there was a bank, and that flag in my map is based on that fact however how the bank looks is diffrent then it was in real, so, some things from facts other inspiration based. :) Gameplay is very important i think. The map will be compact, becouse of the 64 players limit, i want the fights to look like they did more or less, making an exacly rip-off from acual maps would make the fights sporadical and too much 1v1, so i try to make a PART of the battle instead of whole battle (in whole battles there were way more then 64 people, so 64 people fight would take place only in a small part of a battle) :) I will write more detailed discriptions of gameplay aim besides of the atmosphare (well, those things go together more or less!). :)

I would like also to ask if you guys got any suggestions or propositions for kits?

This is my first prototype i just write from my head right now:

Axis:
1. MP40, Knife
2. STG-44, Knife (Limited Kit = 2 x)
3. K98, Bagnet
4. ... Any ideas?

Allied:
I am strongly considering only pistols (diffrent kinds), as on the photos you say A LOT of pistols, maybe even at 70% of ratio of the partisants, and then pickable kits at spawn locations of diffrent weapons, including "Blyskawica" x4 (All mentioned hereby on each spawn), StenGun x3, PIOT x2 (or however its spelled, PIAT was dropped by American/British airforce, even through only 20% of the drops got into polish hands, they still got hands on few piats, a good exemple is when Polish captured one Panter, they did so with a piat penetrating the tanks back), MG42 x1, MP40 x2, K98 x3, M1 Grant x2, Springfield 03 x2. And others, any suggestion?

I do wonder if this will work, the granades, now i dont want this to turn into nade madness, thats why i have an idea that granades will only be pickable with few kits, at German HQ i think 2 kits with 2x nades pickable, same with allies, OR if there are molotovs (Which were used by poles during uprising in great frequence is avalible, then 4 maybe 5 on 2 or 4 kits, IF now their damage is less then granades). Well, please tell me what you guys think :) and name your propositions :)

Vechicles: I think about 1 Stug and 1 APC for axis, and 1 Hetzger for allied (Same as in FHW, the same one). Allied i consider 1 or 2 PAK and 3-6 deployed MGs :)

BTW, How about those textures? (they are most important, the models are for adding the final touch and beuity to this map) :)
And Hell, i will write the Gameplay Target description now :) hold on ;)
AND, i will also soon add images towards the Gameplay description so i can support my gameplay idea and make it more clear for you :)

Gameplay descriptions added / First post updated.
« Last Edit: 07-04-2012, 23:04:33 by [KamiKaze] Destroyer »

Offline sn00x

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.404
    • View Profile
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #13 on: 08-04-2012, 20:04:42 »
i taught you said PURE infantry map? now i read both panters and stugs

Offline Knochenlutscher

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • Personal Text
    • View Profile
Re: Warsaw Uprising 1944
« Reply #14 on: 09-04-2012, 01:04:36 »
The Polish could cap a Panther, a Hetzer (Chawka) and a Sd.kfz251/ Ausf.D.
Their Weapons were all mixed, stolen, captured, air-lifted, old stock
and as much grabbed as they could.

GER:
Werfergerät
Sd.kfz251/1 Ausf.C "Stuka zu Fuss"
StuG
not in FH2: Sturmtiger, Brummbär, Goliath

POL:
Luger P08
Walther P38
Walther PPK
K98K with Bajonet
MP40
Beretta 38
Mod.24 Grenade
MG 15
MG 42
1911 Browning Colt
Sten Mk.II
Bren Mk.I
Mills Bomb
PIAT
3inchmortar
Flamethrower
Molotowcocktail
Mosin Nagant 1891/30
PPSz41
MG 28DP
SVT40

...
Both sides used Flamethrowers! The Polish wore a mix of civilian
next to stolen Heer and Camouflaged WS uniforms. Check these pics out:
http://www.warsawuprising.com/photos.htm

Gives a hint to weapons, uniforms used, as well how to set up the statics and
barricades. This Map should be nitpickingly detailed in statics.
Best wishes for the Development, keep it up
« Last Edit: 09-04-2012, 01:04:57 by Knochenlutscher »
"Klaatu... verata... n... Necktie. Nectar. Nickel. Noodle."