Brest 64

[General_Henry]

The epic kill-fest during the last assault on harbour is due to:

1. you probably won't want to charge forward as Americans as there is almost no cover and no effective way to suppress the Germans

2. If you overextend as an American- Germans love to sneak from that sneaky "secret" path.

3. It is too easy to lock down the only path of advance of the Americans with explosive weapons, like the mortar, or the 88, you simply could just spam shells as they won't run out any soon.

4. camp-killfest is the best tactic to drain the German tickets and avoid dying. (note: all players want to avoid dying when it takes a while to get to the front)

5. The Germans have no choice but to "resist" and hope they could kill more Americans to win the map - but usually they can't, also, there is no room for any sort of ambush or traps so the action is rather "simple" and expected.

6. tickets usually run out before the harbour flag is capped.


A suggestion would be to add more firepower (especially things like flamethrowers/tanks/mortars/HMG) for the Americans while opening up a few buildings (on the way to harbour - especially places where there are a lot of grenade-spam) for the Germans to take cover from and shoot Americans from - it also would allow Americans to get into cover when advancing by "capturing" those buildings.

Be noted that I don't think it is a good idea that the American player have to get their pick-ups from main base and get to action - it is simply too far away. Things like HMGs are almost never used.

Please remove that hole of the "secret" path as it is simply of no point - camp with a Stuart (or flamethrower) and nothing could get through.

[kettcar]

thanks for this suggestions, i will think about it when i have time for the map. the secret path will stay, cause there are many rounds on brest, where this path was very usefull to get back into the city. i like the idea of some destroyed buildinds on the way to the harbour.

[SnakeTheFox]

In my opinion this map has far too many explosive weapons in both deployables, vehicles, and kits. The map is far too limited in available paths and such to warrant such egregious amounts of explosives. I recommend removing mortars from both sides entirely. It's of dubious realism to have them in such a small, urban environment anyway, and given the very "constricted" nature of advancing paths for both sides it generally turns into an ez-mode kill machine even in the most inexperienced of hands; and in the hands of a moderately experienced mortar/spotter team you're basically lucky if you don't spawn into HE rounds 50%+ of the time. A very unenjoyable experience for anyone except the mortar/spotter, no doubt.

I think vehicles should also be changed up. I'd recommend removing the 76mm Sherman and replacing it with an M18 Hellcat (which doesn't get nearly enough love in the maps released so far), as featured on the loading screen image. The open top aspect of it will also force the user to play more realistically, advancing only with moderate infantry support to prevent close-in attacks, not just jetting forward with impunity and mowing down countless players like some vanilla Battlefield tank.

When I first saw this map it occurred to me it'd make an excellent infantry combat map if grenades and mortars were more limited, and the armor available changed to more vulnerable/less effectual ones like open-topped TD's and such. Maybe even change the Panzer IVH to a Panzer IIIN, that's another tank that hasn't gotten much love on maps so far.

[Surfbird]

Well, afaik the Hellcat is a Tankhunter. Would be okay, but a Sherman probably fits better for city fight, but i am not an expert.

The mortar thing pisses me off a lot yea. But there are a lot of players who consider the mortar as part of realistic warfare and i respect that.

But i have to agree. The paths are very small, you can barely hide because of the mortar and set up a defensive/offensive position. Mortars are game deciding on this map.

Furthermore, mortar guys tend to shoot so close to the own units, because the front lines are very close together which causes tons of teamkills for people that try to advance.

But mortar guy gives a shit, he got over 9000 points anyway. Especially when you made it to break through, you get killed by your own mortar so often, which is totally frustrating because it is hard enought to make a breakthrough. Especially as German when you got psuhed back to the western parts of the town and try to recapture some flags.

The problem is that i do not know if the US team is able to capture their first 1-2 flags without a mortar. I have experienced that US got locked down at main base. When they have the first 2-3 flags, the thing turns. The US mortar is too powerful and has 2 or 3 spots to shoot at and Germans really struggle to come back into the game.

In my opinion you can abolish the mortars on this map, but i respect when they stay, because people like it for historical warfare reasons or something and because it might be too ahrd for US at the beginning. I do not like the map at all though.
FH2 players favorite dictum when someone cries about mortar: "Go play CoD ****** !"

[TASSER]

Not quite sure about the M18, the open roof would make it very very difficult to use, and as Surfbird pointed out it's a tank hunter. However I would like to see the mortars gone on the map.

Every round the two highest scoring members on the team are the two mortar-men, and the in game chat is always filled with people complaining about the mortars. Not just sometimes, always and constantly. Red flag as to there is an issue.

I feel that it would improve the player's experience on the map having the mortars removed. They would be more focused on looking out for enemy MG's and tanks when crossing the streets rather than mortar shells falling from nowhere.

Perhaps the loss in firepower could be balanced out by another light tank for each side? You could keep AT assets the same which would increase their effectiveness. I'd much rather fight a light tank than an untouchable mortar.

[SnakeTheFox]

The reason I recommend the M18 is because it's actually the vehicle featured on one of the (only) combat pictures from the real Battle of Brest, as seen on the loading screen (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Battleforbrest.jpg), so it seems like an appropriate and topical inclusion for the battle even if, doctrine/tactics wise, it's not an ideal application of it. The open topped aspect is actually rather interesting I think, it will force the driver to maintain a closer concert with infantry and not just run around all willy nilly like a chicken with its head cut off, as tanks in this map tend to do. This will also make the M5A1 feel less like the lesser "bastard" of the two tanks and actually feel like it has a strength of its own (lack of crew vulnerability).

It's often overlooked, but the hull MG on the Sherman is rather overpowered for a map like this, considering the tank will almost always be facing the avenue of approach for the Germans, it pretty much doubles the tanks expected firepower, and is far more useful on this map than any other I can think of (except perhaps that of the Tigers hull gun on Ramelle). The M18 doesn't have this.

Really just a minor suggestion though, the explosive prevalence on the maps being of far greater concern.

[Yoghurt]

Has anything been changed on Brest with the last update? Because the one battle I had on Brest since that was so unbelievably unbalanced that it was no fun at all. The Americans were basically raped over the whole fight, the Germans sat in the church and shot the American base with everything they had including artillery. The admins didnt do anything (dunno whetere any admin was there). It wasnt pssible to even get the Fountain because if you were lucky you could reach the church wall without getting killed. For some reason, the US had no artillery and didnt get the opportunity to get rid from at least some of the German campers.

It was a mess.

[Ts4EVER]

The only thing that was changed was removal of artillery and addition of the new american grenade I think.

[Yoghurt]

May I ask why the artillery was removed? Maybe the US won the fight a bit too often yeah, but now the balance seems to be ******. Our team had won any map before, of course apart from Mareth Line which obviously cant be won by any average allied team at the moment.

[hyperanthropos]

I think the Panzer IV doesnt spawn at the beginning of the round - when does it spawn now a days?- so that should be quite an advantage for the allies, but I think they lack the stuart now? Am I correct?

Also it always way harder to attack with a noob team see Saint Vith, mareth Line etc...

[Slayer]

...of course apart from Mareth Line which obviously cant be won by any average allied team at the moment.

Eeehm, played Mareth once in 2.45 and won it: http://awards.fh2.ifihada.com/round-detail/10971/

[DLFReporter]

Ach Slayer... you and your godlike powers on any server don't count.

[Slayer]

Ach Slayer... you and your godlike powers on any server don't count.

Heh, I almost ragequit that round because it went so bad

[ajappat]

Just played this yeasterday for first time on full server and it did work. Sector push really made wonders to this map, I enjoyed that round very much, even though we only managed to capture first sector.

[THeTA0123]

Why doesnt the allies get

-A mortar
-Rifle grenades


Really the firepower is lacking for them. Even with the PZIV removal it still is a rather easy german victory.