Author Topic: Artillery communication  (Read 2122 times)

Offline HappyFunBall

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Artillery communication
« on: 14-09-2009, 19:09:30 »
There is another thread in General Discussion on Artillery, and it inspired me for a new suggestion.

Would it be possible to have communications, which anyone could send via the communications 'Q'-bar, delivered only to those in artillery?

The most important message would be "Artillery, check your fire" A second command could be, "Artillery, please deliver smoke"

The alternative would be to make that a radio command heard by all, but I think this would be most effective if it were heard only, (and loudly) if you were in artillery.

The usefulness and advantage of these commands should be obvious.

Offline Aggroman

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #1 on: 14-09-2009, 19:09:57 »
Something for the guy on hte arty like "Bad Spot" or "Good Spot" would be nice.

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #2 on: 14-09-2009, 20:09:46 »
I like the idea, but I would then like to see a radio class or give the SL this ability
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Offline Ninja2dan

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #3 on: 15-09-2009, 06:09:40 »
One thing that bothers me (I could be mistaken) is that once a spotter "fires" a marker, he can't remove it himself. There have been times where I called in a strike on an enemy flag, only to have a group of friendlies rush in to try and take that flag. End result, one dead friendly squad due to TK, and maybe the gunner even gets kicked for negative score.

On the other hand, if we have the ability to remove a spot target, it would help signal the gunners to cease fire and/or move to another target. They have visual confirmation both with the adjust wheels and the overhead view if their target has changed or been removed.

Unfortunately, it's hard to make an artillery based Cease Fire command that works properly. It's possible that multiple artillery units are firing at multiple targets, so how would you tell only a specific gun crew to check their fire? If you broadcast a generic "Artillery, Cease Fire" command then all guns will stop, regardless of target. And that could end up costing your side a flag or losing troops. I think the only real way to fix the problem is just use the team chat and yell out "Arty, check fire on the church!". But then again, all artillery gunners can see friendly units moving into their impact zone both on the minimap and the overhead observer cam.

As for smoke, that one is also a little tricky. The troops on the ground don't know which gun is firing at which target, so how would they tell a specific gun to fire smoke? If you just yell out "Arty, pop smoke" then what about the gun that needs to be firing HE at an enemy flag? Giving the wrong gun crew the smoke command might cause a negative outcome. The gunner should know using the minimap and overhead view the general location that is their target. If you need smoke on the church for example, just yell in team chat "Arty, need smoke on church". As long as the gun crew has a spotter painting the church and they have smoke available, they should be able to follow through.


What I personally would like to see is some way for squad leaders to mark on the map where they need artillery support, and require a spotter to actually place the fire mission. The SL could place a smoke marker on the church for example, and the closest available spotter would then paint the target and use a smoke round. You can adjust the commo-rose depending on the equipped weapon, so it might be possible to give spotters the ability to place a variety of markers on a target that only the gun crews can see. From there, gun crews simply need to select the shell based on the target type. HE, smoke, illum, etc can all be simulated as ammunition types depending on the map.

Of course, such a system might be getting a little too complicated for casual players. It's nowhere near as close to the real thing, but I understand that it might make using artillery more difficult and draw some people away from using it. Again, it's all about balance I guess.

Offline Ionizer

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #4 on: 15-09-2009, 17:09:31 »
If a spotter "fires" another spot marker with his Binoculars, the old one is removed and replaced with the new one (i.e.: Arty can only receive one active spot per spotter).  As it is now, if the spotter wants the Arty to cease fire on a certain target (and doesn't want to go through the "trouble" of asking in the chat), he can either spot a new target he wants arty on, or he can spot a useless target (random tree, open patch of land, etc.) and hope the gunner stops firing.  Of course, the gunner can choose to continue firing where his gun is pointing (for example, the recently capped flag or whatever).

I don't really think we new commands, we just need people communicating better.  Of course, first we need more people actually spotting for targets and manning the guns...
 

Offline altfuture

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #5 on: 15-09-2009, 19:09:27 »
Well, imho we need more education/information. For example, I have been playing FH2 for years, and I had no idea that you can spot only a single target..

Do we need all casual players to be checking the website to understand the basic gameplay features? Makes me sick about this game that what makes you a better player is how much time you've spent playing it. That totally sucks imo.

But anyway, on-topic, I like this idea. I think there should be a simple recommendation system for arty spotting. A spotter has the menu with selectable ammo types (ala comm rose). Clicks one and spots at the same time (like spotting a vehicle but instead of choosing the vehicle type you choose the ammo type). The gunner for that specific spot gets ammo recommendation written in his arty screen, so he knows what the spotter expects him to fire.

Then, it would also be very useful and informative to know whether anyone has used your spot at all. Knowing somebody is checking your spots out would stimulate people to provide good spots, and more often.
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Offline Ionizer

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #6 on: 15-09-2009, 20:09:51 »
Well, imho we need more education/information. For example, I have been playing FH2 for years, and I had no idea that you can spot only a single target..
Really?  If anyone is on the guns and the one and only spot keeps changing too frequently, I would think they would tell the spotter about this....

Do we need all casual players to be checking the website to understand the basic gameplay features? Makes me sick about this game that what makes you a better player is how much time you've spent playing it. That totally sucks imo.
Isn't that to be expected, though?  No ones knows everything right off the bat.  You learn by trying and doing, and maybe asking the guys who have been playing for a while.  Plus, if anyone is doing something wrong, there are usually enough veterans around to tell them how to do it right...

But anyway, on-topic, I like this idea. I think there should be a simple recommendation system for arty spotting. A spotter has the menu with selectable ammo types (ala comm rose). Clicks one and spots at the same time (like spotting a vehicle but instead of choosing the vehicle type you choose the ammo type). The gunner for that specific spot gets ammo recommendation written in his arty screen, so he knows what the spotter expects him to fire.
Again, I don't think this is necessary.  You can accomplish this by simply typing into chat what kind of shells you want ("Arty, smoke on that barn, please!").  Plus, sometimes you only have time to pop your head out of your shell crater and spot, then get right back to hiding.  Sometimes you don't have time to fiddle with the Comm Rose.

Then, it would also be very useful and informative to know whether anyone has used your spot at all. Knowing somebody is checking your spots out would stimulate people to provide good spots, and more often.
If you see shells landing on (or near) your target, or start getting "Targeting Assist" messages, you know someone is using your spot.  Plus, most Arty Gunners will tell you whether or not the spot is good or bad.  Well, they'll usually tell you about bad spots, but use their shells to announce good spots.
 

Offline Safe-Keeper

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #7 on: 15-09-2009, 21:09:17 »
I like the idea. Don't know how to specifically implement it, but yes, commands such as "Fire at will", "Friendly Fire/Friendlies in target area", "Shift fire {one command for each direction}", "Fire for effect", etc. would be incredibly helpful. You could have them affect only the people in your squad, and then have players form artillery squads, with the squad consisting of gunners and spotters.

Quote
Do we need all casual players to be checking the website to understand the basic gameplay features? Makes me sick about this game that what makes you a better player is how much time you've spent playing it. That totally sucks imo.
OK, now you lost me. Isn't that how it's supposed to be? Shouldn't games reward play time with an advantage over those who haven't played as long? I remember a Zero Punctuation review in which Yahtzee bashed Brawl for not rewarding experience, stating, paraphrased, that "no matter how good you get, you can still lose to someone randomly mashing buttons".

Or did you mean to say that FH2 isn't intuitive enough, in which case I can't really agree. Games with features such as artillery can't be intuitive enough to make manuals, guides and forums obsolete, and players should check these sources for information before embarking on the battlefield. Unfortunately, we've gotten to the stage in recent years where people expect to be hand-held into games and have everything explained to them, and reading the manual is considered a defeat for many people. Shouldn't have to be that way, but it is.

Oh, and there's also a very helpful artillery instruction video out there ;) .

Offline hslan.totaler_humbug

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #8 on: 15-09-2009, 22:09:57 »
If a spotter "fires" another spot marker with his Binoculars, the old one is removed and replaced with the new one (i.e.: Arty can only receive one active spot per spotter).
What? Didn´t knew that before, so I have to change my way of spotting. I allways gave a lot of targets, covering a whole flag or area, so the artygun could decide whch spot is the best.
As for the command: it could be very usefull on the battlefield, when you need to say that very fast and most maps don´t support more than one arty, and if there are more, they are often not used at the same time, or different targets.
An option for the Squadleader to request some smoke would be great. But I don´t think that we need an extra command for him, to tell his sqaud, as all NCO´s have a binocs.
We need to be able, to throw Thermos out of Spotterplanes.

Offline Ionizer

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #9 on: 15-09-2009, 23:09:52 »
But... You're a BetaTester...  You're supposed to know more than almost everyone else.

How the hell does everyone not know this?  Why didn't anyone ever tell you in-game?  Ugh...it's like finding out that not everyone knows that Darth Vader is Luke's father...
 

Offline HappyFunBall

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #10 on: 15-09-2009, 23:09:59 »
Unfortunately, it's hard to make an artillery based Cease Fire command that works properly. It's possible that multiple artillery units are firing at multiple targets, so how would you tell only a specific gun crew to check their fire? If you broadcast a generic "Artillery, Cease Fire" command then all guns will stop, regardless of target...

Multiple arty targets are a rare luxury. In that case the artillery could just use there best judgment. We already have the chat screen for specific communications. The point is to get a loud clear message to artillery to pay attention, one of them is firing on friendlys.

I don't really think we new commands, we just need people communicating better.  Of course, first we need more people actually spotting for targets and manning the guns...

Essentially that is what I am talking about, better communication. I have been playing FH.7, and FH2.2 for a long time.  This is not a problem with casual gamers, it is a recurring problem in both games: Artillery team kills a lot. Players are reluctant to call artillery on a target they are attacking because they are afraid the artillery will also fall on them.

I believe the solution is clearer lines of communication between artillery and the target.

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #11 on: 15-09-2009, 23:09:09 »
Ugh...it's like finding out that not everyone knows that Darth Vader is Luke's father...

WHAT?? ??
That sucks for him, at least he can bang that hot Leia chick.

Offline Ionizer

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #12 on: 15-09-2009, 23:09:40 »
Ugh...it's like finding out that not everyone knows that Darth Vader is Luke's father...

WHAT?? ??
That sucks for him, at least he can bang that hot Leia chick.

One of few times I can sense sarcasm in text.  Go me.
 

Offline hslan.totaler_humbug

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #13 on: 15-09-2009, 23:09:20 »
But... You're a BetaTester...  You're supposed to know more than almost everyone else.

How the hell does everyone not know this?  Why didn't anyone ever tell you in-game?  Ugh...it's like finding out that not everyone knows that Darth Vader is Luke's father...
Yeah, I really felt like this. But me not too harsh with me, as I am not that long a betatester  8) .
We need to be able, to throw Thermos out of Spotterplanes.

Offline Safe-Keeper

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Re: Artillery communication
« Reply #14 on: 15-09-2009, 23:09:58 »
The irony is that artillery spotting is actually incredibly simple. Just call for artillery (admittedly a tricky procedure in FH2), have the gun line fire one shot, give them feedback on how their shots are landing, and tell them to fire for effect once they're on target. Then provide feedback.

Not harder than sitting there watching shots hit the ground and tell the gun line things like "more to the left", "hold fire", "hitting targets", "killed one tank", etc.

It's one of those things that we should do automatically, yet have to train ourselves to do. Gaming is weird.