Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Africa maps => Feedback => Bardia => Topic started by: Toddel on 29-03-2009, 11:03:50
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"If you have a suggestions or want to give us some Feedback about this Map you can Post it here!"
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I have two suggestions:
- Reposition the 2 88 canons, can't believe the Italians would plave the guns so badly.
- Maybe add some barbedwire near the river crossing. Its the most vunerable spot in the defence and even if you got a couple of guys smart enough to defend it, they are never fast enough to put up a defence. So something to slow the advance of the British would be nice.
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The main problem I have with bardia is its looks. Undoubtably it is a very good map to play, but not a good map to look at. The ruined pak38s are the prime example of this. They definitly shouldn't be there.
As to gameplay, something needs to be done to counter the flag hopping that allways ends up happening. But as it stands, I can't think of a good way to impliment push mode. I'd also add a few breda38 tripod kits around the town, and put an L6/40 down at the bridge outpost.
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My main issue with Bardia always was that it looks so BF2-ish. I can't quite put my finger on it but I guess the layout, the textures (colours) that ae dominant etc. It sadly is my least favourit map of FH2.
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I dislike positioning of a cannon at south entrance to the hospital (the one with tents, and walls around it) because it makes it hard to pass through. Imo,
- either remove the cannon, or move it back so that everyone can freely pass the entrance,
- or block/fill the entrance with the cannon so that no one can't pass.
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Albeit I personally like Bardia, I do agree some barbed wire along the river, or harder to get up the sides of the cliff, and replacements of the 88s would do wonders. One watching the north road/bridge easier would be perfect, maybe in the dock area, and possibly better placement on the Western/southern road. Sure it would be difficult for the tanks, but it makes infantry more important, rather than having a matilda just camp around.
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my suggestion would be add some push elements to it, the allied must cap at least 1 flag (for example, the outpost, OR the barracks) to reach the inner flags. (hospital , for example).
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Main thing that is wrong with the maps is that it looks outdated and not near the level of rest of the FH2 maps. While its gameplay is SOLIIIID (whoever gets that, gets a cookie), the looks fail quite bad. I wouldnt go change anything too dramatically, not the basic gameplay layout anyways. But the rather "scattered" objects, mix of both Crete and NA objects just next to each other kills the immersion. Not to mention Matruh Station building at the city hospital. Otherwise I think its a good map, just requires a huge facelift.
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my suggestion would be add some push elements to it, the allied must cap at least 1 flag (for example, the outpost, OR the barracks) to reach the inner flags. (hospital , for example).
Maybe a bit like Fall of Tobruk, that allies can choose to go over the left or the right flank.
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Could a complex push system be set up so that to begin with, either the bridge or barracks flag can be taken. However, once one is taken, only the closest flag to that can be captured and so on. With the whole push system resetting if the Italians regain all their flags.
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Well, my issue is that why do the Italians have a 88MM guns?
They had dual-Purpose guns of their own.Namely the Cannone da 90/53 and the Cannone da 75/46 C.A. modello 34
Wherent they present then on Bardia, or is it because the FH2 dint had time to make them?(Not pushing to make them, Normandy first plz :):) )
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Well, my issue is that why do the Italians have a 88MM guns?
They had dual-Purpose guns of their own.Namely the Cannone da 90/53 and the Cannone da 75/46 C.A. modello 34
Wherent they present then on Bardia, or is it because the FH2 dint had time to make them?(Not pushing to make them, Normandy first plz :):) )
Bardia came so close to the release of 2.0 that it was just thrown in without little to no italian stuff in with the germans. Hence why they still posses the 88. While this is totally incorrect as the germans and their equipment hadnt arrived north africa during the time period where this Bardia battle takes place. 88 is nothing but wrong in this map, but unfortunately there hasnt been any replacements done for it, yet.
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Same goes for many common italian Equipment
The Cannone da 47/32 M35 should replace the current Pak35's on the italian army
Not to mention italian aircraft.Italy had so many cool fighter aircraft during WW2
Guess it will be a long time before we see this
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Bardia has Eragon Syndrome: Good story, looks good, It was just performed improperly and the remake won't be until 2017. And it'll have bruce willis.
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Bardia has Eragon Syndrome: Good story, looks good, It was just performed improperly and the remake won't be until 2017. And it'll have bruce willis.
Ummmm after all the shit posts you have ever put out this one made me smile. Good job at a post that did not suck. I salute you!
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Lainer is a sucker for the big BW.
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I love Bardia's gameplay, but I do agree it looks a bit BF2ish. Maybe lightening the sand a bit and adding more realistic objects here and there (statics, not new guns, I know it's unreasonable to expect whole new Italian guns for one map where placeholders will do) would sort it out. In terms of gameplay it's still one of my top maps in FH2, right up there with Fall of Tobruk.
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Gameplay has been rock solid since day 1. But the map is horribly ugly.
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I agree it is ugly, but I still think Mersa Matruh is uglier. Plus its gameplay isn´t nearly as good as Bardia´s.
I like this map even more because of the Nations Cup. I think one of the reasons people hate Bardia, is that it is always the map which appears after a servercrash on hslan, so people associate Bardia with something negative: the servercrash.
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Yes, Mersa Matruh is a bit on the simple side, on the other hand it has a huge view distance and the gameplay is nice with a good mix of tank and infantry warfare. Also it looks like the real place (Lobo showed some pics when the map was shown in the news update, it's almost 1:1)
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Bardia is a great map :) Except its a little "ugly" as people say, its close to perfect ;) Nothing should be changed, except the italian tanks are quite sucky, but if thats how they were in real, thats how it should be in the game too :)
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Had an amazing game on this two days ago that confirmed for me that the gameplay is fine - started the round as the Aussies and as an SL jumped in an A13. Drove up to the top Italian flag (Wadi something) and ordered my squad that was riding and running with me to jump off and attack while I fired smoke bombs from the turret. Dodging the fire from the tank over at the harbour on the other side of the bridge and the AT gun on the bunker, plus an AT rifle nearby was really intense and my boys soon got the flag under control. Was a really great experience, one of the best I've had in FH2.
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Next to mareth line, it is still my favorite map
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This is one of my favorite maps, but there is one thing I think should be considered again.
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4140/bardia.jpg)
This PAK 35 here, I think it should be usable for axis side only. If Wadi outpost is the only flag italians have, allies can shoot with that PAK HE rounds straight into Wadi bunker (axis spawnpoint) and it turns to a one bloody massacre.
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This map needs an M11/39, but we have no M11/39 :(
Seems that all the Axis vehicles are placeholders, according to Wiki, in Bardia the italians had the tank nobody wants to use, Fiat L3 Tankette and M11/39.
None of them where capable of even disabling a Matilda. The M13/40 is just a beast in the map, capable of destroying a Crusader whit ONE shot. Its perfect for ambush, just shoot in the sides. Be carefull, when facing another M13/40, shoot and reverse!
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I always drive the Cruiser MKIV, and so far, only once was i killed by an M13/40........
The cruiser MKIV outperforms the M13.It is faster, and can survive a frontal hit.It also have a far better visibilty around the commanders cupola.And Those smoke launchers can be such a handy tool
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Yeah but the M13/40 can destroy the Cruiser whit one shot on its Tracks, front side.
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Yeah but the M13/40 can destroy the Cruiser whit one shot on its Tracks, front side.
nah, cruiser MKIV survives a frontal shot.Trust me.
but then again, M13/40 has HE shells, and i love HE shells ;D
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Well i managed to destroy it whit one shot, front.
And it takes one shot, also, on the Tracks, thats why this map is awesome for ambush.
M13/40 is a beast
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Well i likem the map though english always win but near the flak 88 and city hospital there is this rock formation with a gap between 2 rocks where you cant pass through.
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I didn't look at the pic, but I know what you mean. I believe that's a BF2 vanilla rock and thus, can't be fixed unless a new rock static is made.
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i know its not really neccesary but but in case the devs didnt know, they know now:)
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I believe the devs have been working on that kind of gap. Also, the Aussies don't always win. I have seen axis win often enough.
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yes that is fixed! ;D i imported the Cols and reworked them
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ah found a minor thing really nitpicking here :P
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7871/screen016ii.jpg
You can look under the bunker.
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What was the name of the town we are supposed to fight in, anyway? ;)
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2894/screen013.th.jpg) (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/screen013.jpg/)
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1. Teamlock the 88mm, the 88 is the best thing the Italians have in this map. Its so annoying to see Aussies using the 88 D:, just like the bofors are teamlocked in Crete, afaik.
2. Replace the 88 with Cannone da 90/53, plx!
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1. Teamlock the 88mm, the 88 is the best thing the Italians have in this map. Its so annoying to see Aussies using the 88 D:, just like the bofors are teamlocked in Crete, afaik.
2. Replace the 88 with Cannone da 90/53, plx!
+1 supported.
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Can we plz just remove the Matilda? It is just a god weapon that kills 50+ Italians a round.
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No, Italians must find a way to deal with it ---> 88
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No, Italians must find a way to deal with it ---> 88
The worst placed 88 in the whole game. The Matlida can just avoid it and camp the shit out of the Italians. Mines very problematic and the AT guns just suck ass. Seriously most people hate this map because of that stupid Matilda.
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Then there should be another 88, and teamlocked of course.
But a big no to the removal of the Matilda. Because the Matilda was a huge asset in the Op Compass campaign and basically, the tank that basically gave the Allies a Decisive Victory.
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Then there should be another 88, and teamlocked of course.
But a big no to the removal of the Matilda. Because the Matilda was a huge asset in the Op Compass campaign and basically, the tank that basically gave the Allies a Decisive Victory.
Plz do add another 88.
But if your not then remove the Matilida, ya sure it was present historically but then again the Italians got rapped in real life, and one side steamrolling the other is not fun.
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I don't really see problem with matilda. It doesn't even have HE, so if someone tells it rapes anything, I can only advise not to run infront of it. It's a damn town map, there's always alternative route.
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Tellermines anyone...?
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Not enough.
I tried to blow out the Matilda with Tellermines and no succes so far. One time i blew up a Cruiser but thats all.
Why? because of the laz0r MG and the massive zoom of tanks optics. ::)
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lol you know it is kinda hard to run away and hide from the Matlida. The thing is god and can roll anywhere it wants unopposed. I really love Bardia, ya sure you can try to avoid the kill whoring Matilda, but in the end of the day it is an unneeded annoyance.
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Perhaps bardia could use a redesign completly. Be more open, give italians far more stuff.
and give italians far more stuff
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Bardia is getting love...
GETTING LOVE
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Bardia is getting love...
GETTING LOVE
NO WAY
(http://cmkamp.be/bertorelli.jpg)
MAMA mia DATSA die GOODA newsa!!!!
Isita die fiat truck?
DIs medal! I got for serving die fiats!
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Your humour is bad and you should feel bad.
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Your humour is bad and you should feel bad.
FFUUU I am exicted and happy and i'll show it no mather what!
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I destroy the Matildas with the Tellermine: i put it next to Matilda, i shot on his back and i fuge, he follows me and i hear the BOOOOOOM. AHAHAHAAHHA
PS: i have never played the Aussies, are they good to be played?
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PS: i have never played the Aussies, are they good to be played?
I'd say try it ;)
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Italian bias FTW
I have never gotten to enjoy the wonders of Bardia 64 2.4.
On another note: North America players, y u no populate North american servers (like WaW?)
Do they lag too much, do they play terrible maps, what's wrong with them?
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I play waw on thurs fri. With the 64p maps in rotation its imosible to get anything going during off days. If 16p maps were in rotation, you might could get a group together to play.
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Since this is also an Italian only map, why not replace the k89 with Pattern 14 as it is on Keren.
I think TS4ever stated the italian used mostly captured british snipers.
Also the older one of the 88 should still be relocated a bit, I dont say it shoud be able to shot over the whole map, but its view field really rediculous.
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For me, this is one of the worse maps in the whole mod. Everytime this comes up in rotation, HSLAN and 762, people start to comment about a map change.
Why? Unbalanced. The allies have tons of arty, and tanks, the italian AT guns are very badly placed, and the italians just have a miserable tank that its weak as hell.
And there's tons of holes in the italian defenses.
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I have to say that the 88 that already there in 2.4 is still in a very bad position making it almost useless, this is definitly right.
Also balancing the Mathilda on a map that has only light tanks besides the Matty is really hard I suppose. I mean if a noob drives it yeah that is not to much of a problem, but if you have a really good tanker inside it with a full squad it gets Op pretty fast in my opinion.
By the way is there any pushcode on this map? If no it be a good idea to add it.
P.S.: And give the Italians Pattern 14 like on Keren :D
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(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3681/screen213n.jpg)
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Haven't said before that I love the new atmosphere on this map, really did a lot to make it less BF2ish and make it one of the better looking maps in the mod 8)
I've never had a problem with the Matilda camping but I haven't played this map in a while. I'd vote against removing it tho as it was the 'poster-child' of this battle.
My only suggestions would be to try and take away any blatantly German things on the map. Obviously the 88 needs to be there to counter the Matilda and the Italians don't have a big enough gun in-game to replace it. But I'd agree with taking away the k98 sniper and replacing it with a Pattern 14, as suggested before. Most other German things on the map have slowly been weeded out as the mod has progressed and hopefully that continues ;)
My last suggestion would be to change the Australian player models on the map. Obviously BF2 can't really replicate the coats the Aussies actually wore and it'll never be 100% historically accurate. But I'd put the same commonwealth player models that are on Mareth and Tunis on this map. Just giving the Aussies some long sleeves and pants instead of the shorts etc.. to represent the desert cold in January.
I like the way this map plays tho, never had a problem with it and it provides some good infantry fights. Iirc I don't think the Aussies have a dome of death around their main tho, the Italians can walk right in. Never had a problem with this before but it should probably be there.
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Man you're so late, I don't even remember what the old Bardia was like.
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Man you're so late, I don't even remember what the old Bardia was like.
lol I've played it a ton since then, just never got around to providing any feedback. These forums barely get any love. hopefully the devs still sift through these from time to time :P
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2.46 changelog for Bardia 64
- Introduced a "no-go" area for the Italians around the Allied base to prevent spawn raping (see the minimap screenshot below).
- Decreased the fog distance to limit raping of the Allied infantry spawning area from the opposite side of the river.
- New sniper pickup kit for the Italians - the captured Pattern rifle + the usual Italo-German stuff (also affects Bardia 16).
- Minor spawning polishing (also affects Bardia 16).
- Updated minimap w/o the white-on-black text obscuring the port.
- Improved lighting with slightly less darkness and less pronounced bluishness.
- Gazillions of cosmetic fixes - floating and misplaced statics and overgrowth, lighting issues, "invisible" barrels in the port, etc, etc, etc. Even the "Mersa Matruh" inscription reported by Kelmola in 2010 (http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=42.msg164121#msg164121) was removed.
Minimap for reference (the cyan line only shows the new Italian no-go area around the Allied base, you won't see it in game):
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2hob4ph.jpg)
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Even the "Mersa Matruh" inscription reported by Kelmola in 2010 (http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=42.msg164121#msg164121) was removed.
Whoa, talk about attention to detail there. Had already totally forgotten about this and at the time had probably intended it as more of a joke than expected it to be actually repaired :p
Of course, this thoroughness and dedication of the devteam is what makes FH2 stand head and shoulders above commercial games.
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Of course, this thoroughness and dedication of the devteam is what makes FH2 stand head and shoulders above commercial games.
Agreed!
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As a comment on balance, I haven't seen the Aussies cap out the Italians and win this map in a long time. They have the tank and ticket advantage but I feel it's a little too hard for them to hold 3 flags while trying to put down the entire Italian team at another.
I will say that lately I've only been playing this map with about 80+ ppl on the server which might have a lot to do with it. This map was tight when only 64 player servers were possible, now it just feels cramped with that many people on. It bottlenecks the Aussies and makes the Italian defense easier overall. I don't remember ever having balance issues with this map before 64+ code came along. (This is more of a server issue than a map design one tho :P)
As a possible 64+ layer I would maybe revert this map back to straight conquest to have a balanced fight. The Aussies stop the bleed after holding 2 flags and Italians bleed when down to one flag. Keep the ticket ratio the same and maybe take away one of the A-13s.
This is just a suggestion for now; but I think an overall decision needs to be made about the maps that aren't fit for 64+ players, and how to make new layers for them to be more suitable.
P.S. Thank You for putting an ABC line in for the Aussies :) it helps a lot to not be sniped by Italians camping on the wrong side of the river.
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I suggest the removal of the some of these bf2 bunkers that ruin the athmosphere of the map a bit (especially the ones mounted on top concrete blocks and that are quite uselss due to their location the sandbag ones are okay I suppose.
Also could we have some breda tripod pickup kit I can't seem to find any.
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2.5 changelog for Bardia (all layers)
- New "winter Australians" soldier model by Matt Baker.
- Fixed trench skirt texture, now they more or less match the surrounding terrain.
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I have suggestion-replace the "88s" with shied with "88" without shield. AFAIK Cannone da 90/53 doesn't use shield and I still haven't found a photo of such. Otherwise, I think the 88 ressembles it pretty much.
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2.52 changelog for Bardia 64
- Replaced the 88s with their shield-less versions, as suggested by Dancho (http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=42.msg347333#msg347333).
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Now I feel so proud of myself. ;D Just another proof that the devs do listen to their community.
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We do, but the community is too lazy to post in here and instead complains on the server... ;)
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Near the City Hospital I found this pottery that will never fall (why?!! :'( ) and floating bricks. Also what about deleting german inscriptions on ammo boxes and barrels to give a less "german feel" of this italian base?