Battlefield 3

[NTH]

Hahaha all the privacy lovers that are playing BF2  Go read the Punkbuster EULA and then come back here and we will talk some more. And stop using Google while you are at it.

If you can live with PB scanning your RAM, your Application data and what have you, you can live with Origin doing the same.

[DLFReporter]

Well yes it scans you RAM and active processes, but:

Is PunkBuster a spyware?
PunkBuster does not collect or maintain any personally identifiable information regarding players. It does not track web surfing habits or log instant messaging conversations either.
Any information that the PunkBuster client uses is mangled in a one way hash so that upon transmission it is completely meaningless.

Source: http://etui.kashu.fr/punkbuster.html

Origin does this as well, but sends the data to EA, where they only state that they will sell your data anonymised, not that they collect it without personal information. Quite an open EULA wording if you ask me. And you can run BF2 without punkbuster contrary to BF3 without Origin.

But hell what do I know...

[Archimonday]

Part 1

"You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services."

Nothing revolutionary here, a bunch of programs do this, and a lot of games too. They want to know what my IP address is, what sort of system, including hardware identification that im running, they want to know which pieces of software I have installed so they can then market to me better, and they want to know which software I use most. All of this is designed to help them advertise to me, provide support such as technical support, where an EA representative might be able to easily identify my system and help me troubleshoot, to know where things go so that the program can effectively update, and other such things. Nothing disgusting here, its all typical.

Part 2

"EA may also use this information combined with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve our products and services. We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you."

This part is just telling me what all other Electronic Arts EULA's tell me. When I register with Origin I am giving them my name, address, and other types of personal information to be a part of it. They will then use this information to send me magazine subscriptions, news letters, coupons, or more likely, emails.

The other sentence tells me that they want to be able to share this information with their third party providers, since there is a lot of hands that go into making these games. But the info shared with them wont be personally identifiable, which means I wont be getting advertising from a million different companies. Again, nothing here that's privacy obstructing in any way.

Part 3

"IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE APPLICATION. This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance with EA’s Privacy Policy located at www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts with the terms of EA’s Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall control."

This is telling me to say no if I don't want Origin to collect data, but, if I do agree, then all the information collected abides by the Electronic Arts Privacy Policy on their primary page, and if any information is collected which violates that Privacy Policy, then it shall be the ruling document on the proceedings. The EA Privacy Policy is again, something you've already agreed to elsewhere most likely, and again, there is nothing here that seems out of line.

[DLFReporter]

This is telling me to say no if I don't want Origin to collect data, but, if I do agree, then all the information collected abides by the Electronic Arts Privacy Policy on their primary page, and if any information is collected which violates that Privacy Policy, then it shall be the ruling document on the proceedings. The EA Privacy Policy is again, something you've already agreed to elsewhere most likely, and again, there is nothing here that seems out of line.

Not only to say no, but not to use their product.
True, but the data collected, which they didn't do before to this extent, is still collected in this invasive way. And sold for marketing purposes all in accord with EA's second policy which isn't a contract with you and which can be changed without your consent.

[Archimonday]

This is telling me to say no if I don't want Origin to collect data, but, if I do agree, then all the information collected abides by the Electronic Arts Privacy Policy on their primary page, and if any information is collected which violates that Privacy Policy, then it shall be the ruling document on the proceedings. The EA Privacy Policy is again, something you've already agreed to elsewhere most likely, and again, there is nothing here that seems out of line.

Not only to say no, but not to use their product.
True, but the data collected, which they didn't do before to this extent, is still collected in this invasive way. And sold for marketing purposes all in accord with EA's second policy which isn't a contract with you and which can be changed without your consent.

I still don't get what your getting at, if I say no to any EULA for any game it wont let me install it. How is this any different than any of those? "To this extent"? Programs have been gathering information like this for ages.

[DLFReporter]

I was hinting at the EULA for Punkbuster, you can run the game without punkbuster, but not without Origin.

Which game/program do you know, that check your browser history, your Registry/mails and who knows what else and then sends them home to the respective company?

[Archimonday]

I was hinting at the EULA for Punkbuster, you can run the game without punkbuster, but not without Origin.

Which game/program do you know, that check your browser history, your Registry/mails and who knows what else and then sends them home to the respective company?

Like, its not that I like the idea of needing Origin to run the game, but I fail to see how what you are agreeing to is so terrible.

Just because it says it will collect data, doesn't mean it specifies how. Just as when you sign up for something like Playstation Network or Xbox Live you need to give them your personal information, I don't doubt that Origin will be any different.

Where did it say that they can check your emails? Your just becoming paranoid and finding ridiculous things for it to collect, it says no where that Origin is going to steal your passwords, login into your Email and read them. Browser history? There are plenty of programs, like Google AdSense (that even though you can block it with 3rd party software) collect that information and use it for advertising, Facebook, and plenty of other websites do this. There is nothing revolutionary here, and nothing you havn't agreed to elsewhere.

[DLFReporter]

Adsense runs on homepages that you browse to and which you can effectively prevent from tracking you.
Origin runs on your PC. That's the main difference here.

The EULA is very open as to what they will be 'evaluating'. I just want to raise some peoples conscience here that you are getting a bit more with your candy (BF3) than just 'another' Steam-like platform.
The bit with the mails was exaggerated of course, but that's what will come next. Yahoo has gone that step last month, just like Google-mail does as well. (both programs, that I would never want to use for anything important!)

[Archimonday]

Adsense runs on homepages that you browse to and which you can effectively prevent from tracking you.
Origin runs on your PC. That's the main difference here.

The EULA is very open as to what they will be 'evaluating'. I just want to raise some peoples conscience here that you are getting a bit more with your candy (BF3) than just 'another' Steam-like platform.
The bit with the mails was exaggerated of course, but that's what will come next. Yahoo has gone that step last month, just like Google-mail does as well. (both programs, that I would never want to use for anything important!)

It really sounds to me like your blowing this whole thing way out of proportion. I read the EA Privacy Policy and this supposed evil clause and see no reason to be angry at Electronic Arts. There is simply nothing included in them that I have not agreed to a hundred different times.

[DLFReporter]

I'm just concerned. I mean why would big gaming-sites and IT-News-sites report about it if it were so commonplace and usual?

[DaWorg!]

Next will be cars, which will track where are you going with them to better advertise to you shops along the way to your work   

[DLFReporter]

Next will be cars, which will track where are you going with them to better advertise to you shops along the way to your work   

They've already gone there. When you use Google Latitude on your Android Smartphone you are giving Google the possibility and rights to do just that.

Anyhow, I'd still like to know why the news-sites featured it so predominantly when it's something usual and not new?

[NTH]

Well yes it scans you RAM and active processes, but:

Is PunkBuster a spyware?
PunkBuster does not collect or maintain any personally identifiable information regarding players. It does not track web surfing habits or log instant messaging conversations either.
Any information that the PunkBuster client uses is mangled in a one way hash so that upon transmission it is completely meaningless.

Source: http://etui.kashu.fr/punkbuster.html

Origin does this as well, but sends the data to EA, where they only state that they will sell your data anonymised, not that they collect it without personal information. Quite an open EULA wording if you ask me. And you can run BF2 without punkbuster contrary to BF3 without Origin.

But hell what do I know...

My dear reporter, at least EA is up front with what they are going to do and how they are going to do it. Punkbuster I have to believe on their "pretty blue eyes". Just like Google claims to do "No evil"

Know this, the moment you plug your PC/Smartphone/tablet on the Internet there is no such thing as privacy.
Google know the stuff you are doing, FB or other social media sites knows a shit load of things about you and even in forums like this I can find lots of personal details about people. And let's not forget the thousands of trojans out there waiting to infect your PC.

The point is that armed with this knowledge you must think about how much you are will to divulge of yourself. You think your computer is personal? Then think about the amount of personal details that you are sharing everyday on the Web, willingly and unwillingly.

And don't take it personal it just that suddenly everybody is screaming blood hell and murder on various fora, while in their signature I see their XBox live tag, PSN ID and Facebook link. It just facepalms me to think about it 

[DLFReporter]

So it's just me and my outdated feeling for privacy?
As I stated before, what information you give away online is clear and somewhat under your control.
Now I personally am just a bit reserved about giving away that bit of control as well. I really looked forward to BF3 but this is still a pain in my side...

I don't think that a software like PB would have survived as long as it did if they'd really not stick to the MD5hash feedback. Especially as they aren't as 'up front about it' as EA.

Is it really just me having problems with that? I guess I'll just set up a new System for BF3 on a SSD.

[NTH]

No no you're feelings for privacy is correct, only your notion that Origin is more "evil" then the current applications that you have is misguided in mine opion.
But let's contest this when the game is out, if it really scans all your installed software, upload all your files in My Document, My pictures, etc, to EA, it truly will be evil  .

Like I wrote earlier, if you have private, sensitive data that you do not want to share with the world, please do not put it on a PC connected to Internet or at least be aware the things do get hacked.

LUZSec showed how anoying this can get with the PSN hack. If tommorow someone would hack PB, they would have a nice way to get access to millions of PC's.