Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Suggestions => Topic started by: HappyFunBall on 17-02-2011, 21:02:01

Title: New commander option
Post by: HappyFunBall on 17-02-2011, 21:02:01
This seems so obvious, but I can't remember it ever having been suggested before, nor can I find with a search.

Give the commander the option to, instead of using his artillery on the map, use it for counter artillery. The effect would be to re-set the opposing commanders artillery counter to zero. This would simulate 'disrupting' the enemy's artillery. The timing could be played with a little to make a game of trying to time the counter battery for maximum effect.

Now go ahead and tell me it is not possible with the BH2 engine...
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: buddycole46 on 18-02-2011, 01:02:30
just sounds kinda silly.
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: VonMudra on 18-02-2011, 01:02:14
Its perfectly feasible, its just a question of if the devs want to make the heavy artillery models for it, and set it up.
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: LuckyOne on 18-02-2011, 14:02:46
Its perfectly feasible, its just a question of if the devs want to make the heavy artillery models for it, and set it up.

Well he's not talking about the models, just resetting the commander's timer... I believe you don't need models for that... unless you wanna make it more "realistic"

I don't know I kinda like it... would be a bit more interesting for the commanders to try and outsmart each other... but could also turn into a "whoever manages to click the button faster wins"
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: Cory the Otter on 18-02-2011, 15:02:41
I would just like the commander position available on all maps.
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: VonMudra on 18-02-2011, 16:02:22
Its perfectly feasible, its just a question of if the devs want to make the heavy artillery models for it, and set it up.

Well he's not talking about the models, just resetting the commander's timer... I believe you don't need models for that... unless you wanna make it more "realistic"

I don't know I kinda like it... would be a bit more interesting for the commanders to try and outsmart each other... but could also turn into a "whoever manages to click the button faster wins"

IIRC, it would work the same way as in BF2, you'd have to get them repaired.
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: LuckyOne on 18-02-2011, 17:02:24

IIRC, it would work the same way as in BF2, you'd have to get them repaired.

You're right that sounds better... but how do we repair Naval guns support? I suppose it could be disabled on those maps...

 Ah well off to the devs to decide if they need this...
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: HappyFunBall on 18-02-2011, 20:02:49

IIRC, it would work the same way as in BF2, you'd have to get them repaired.

You're right that sounds better... but how do we repair Naval guns support? I suppose it could be disabled on those maps...

 Ah well off to the devs to decide if they need this...

In another thread the devs discussed placing commander artillery guns on the map where they could be destroyed and repaired:

We've thought about this internally. The problem is...it encourages ppl to drive a tank into the enemy's main base and attempt to blow up the guns, and thus takes away from the main part of the battle.

So I don't think we are going to see commander artillery guns actually appearing on the map, which is fine. Although these suggestion have got me thinking. I think I will expand on my original suggestion with something much broader, (and probably even less possible with the BF2 engine.)

A commander accumulates, over time, resource points. These points would appear on a counter on the commander screen and would steadily increase over time. You can spend them several ways:


Possibly points accumulate faster, the more flags your team has. Although maybe that would create too much imbalance and create a tipping effect where a winning team overwhelms the other. Maybe you get more points if you team is losing, so you can better help your struggling team. Or maybe flags just don't affect the point counter at all.

I think this would go a long way to achieving the goal of making the commander's game more fun and playable. If by some miracle this is possible with the game engine, it would also probably be highly adaptable, that is, there is room to add more cools stuff for the commander to spend points on.

Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: LuckyOne on 18-02-2011, 23:02:37


A commander accumulates, over time, resource points.


*hides from the angry anti-PR mob running to this thread*
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: DLFReporter on 18-02-2011, 23:02:15
*hides from the angry anti-PR mob running to this thread*
/me looks at LuckyOne going into hiding and scratches his head.
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: HappyFunBall on 18-02-2011, 23:02:17
I've never played PR, do they do something similar?
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: Slayer on 19-02-2011, 16:02:54
I think this is a nice way to make being commander more interesting.
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: Lightning on 19-02-2011, 16:02:08
Fixing how the commander works is on our to-do list (somewhere at the bottom).
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: Josh094 on 19-02-2011, 16:02:41
I'd like to see commander have the option to call in an artillery smoke screen in place of the redundant vehicle drop.  8)
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: Cory the Otter on 19-02-2011, 16:02:04
I'd like to see commander have the option to call in an artillery smoke screen in place of the redundant vehicle drop.  8)

IIRC, in some maps, smoke screens replace Artillery
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: LuckyOne on 20-02-2011, 17:02:31
Fixing how the commander works is on our to-do list (somewhere at the bottom).

Hmm I wonder what's at the top of it then...
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: DLFReporter on 20-02-2011, 18:02:38
Hmm I wonder what's at the top of it then...

We could tell you (from the little insight what testers get), but then we'd have to kill you. :)
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: Torenico on 21-02-2011, 00:02:47
Fixing how the commander works is on our to-do list (somewhere at the bottom).

Hmm I wonder what's at the top of it then...

Maus.
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: Oberst on 02-03-2011, 12:03:56
The commanders role is obsolete at the moment. Noone really cares for the chain of command, nor the speciall orders - except maybe for 1 or 2 dedicated teamplaying squads and their leaders. But they do most of the things a commander would order them to do anyway.

The real guidiance of the public crowd on a server is done by this 1 or 2 dedicated squads, which cap the flags. The majority of players on such maps - even if they are in squads - want to spawn where the action is. And this is what they do. So if one of the teamplaying squad caps a flag, they stay and defend it for a second, until some of the crowd has spawned there and set up a kind of "defense". This defense means that hese guys spawn on the flag and move for the most obvious direction, where the part of the other teams crowd comes from, which does a kind of the same. This happens until the 1 or 2 dedicated squads has capped the next flags and has guided the crowd to spawn at the front.
This is what we call gameplay and what the mappers did and thought about.

The commander, even in vBF, is actually not important factor of winning or losing a map. But in vBf he has atleast something more to do. He scans the map, spots enemies, give arty/UAV/transport support and communicates atleast with one or two squads. Another important thing is the possibility to watch the fight, as you can zoom in very close.

Of course a commander could have a very important role, as in his hands the information all accumulate, so he would be the guy, who has the view of everything. In vBF he communicates to the crowd, which just spawn and goes for the next flag, so not the dedicated teamplaying squads, via his spotting of enemies, he detects with his scanner or setting the UAV on the spot, where the action is going. Most people run headless to the direction, where the "ping" of the UAV comes from.

In FH2 this communication and the spotting of general enemy assaults and the most important assets of the enemy team needs to be done by voice or chat. As there are a lot of people, who just dont do that, the commander becomes obsolete even more, as he has no or little info to jugde the situation.

I dont want to critize the gameplay. The gameplay works, the way it is, very fine and nearly all maps play out very well, with a very good mapdesign. So the commander role is not needed.
But it would be nice, if the commander had some more options, to make an impact on the battle, without being boring.

Just some random thoughts about gameplay and commander.
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: Kubador on 02-03-2011, 16:03:49
Oberst, I like your analysis. Keep up with the feedback.
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: Michael Z Freeman on 02-03-2011, 17:03:03
Is this idea a way of simulating working out where the enemy artillery is so it can be bombarded ? This can be done by calculating based on direction and timing. This was a method used in Tobruk as documented in the book Tobruk by Chester Wilmot. Of course the trick is how that is translated into gameplay.
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: IrishReloaded on 02-03-2011, 17:03:02
Instead of giving the commander, which is kinda not usefull at all, new stuff, give the squadleaders more facilties.
This would increas the power of a squad even more, and new people would start to become squadleaders, because then they have more to do then just be mobilespawmpoints (which is not always true, at least I dont see myself as mobile spawmpoint! )
Stuff that would be worth thinking about:

Mortar attack, like the commander but called by the squadleaders. Limited for sure, and depending of the amount of the flags on a map.
Something to tell the people which weapon you wish from them to take.

Example: Your squadlist, and you can right klick on the names, and klick on the weapon sympol. When the player dies and  gets into the respawm window a red text should be there telling " Your squadleader would like to see you spawming with XYZ kit. To tell people what kit they should take, takes quite a lot of time and therefore the 10 sec. of respawm time might not work out.

Give the SL one handgrenade (maybe the new egg handgrenade for germans). Why: because moar nades are always better : :D

I would also love to set waypoints on the map. Now you just can put an attackmarker on the map, but this does not show where to go. I highly doubt that this is possible, but waypoints would make leading more easier.
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: DLFReporter on 02-03-2011, 17:03:43
...
Mortar attack, like the commander but called by the squadleaders. Limited for sure, and depending of the amount of the flags on a map.

Use the binoculars that every squadleader gets in his kit. :)

Something to tell the people which weapon you wish from them to take.
Use VoIP that is enabled on most servers or use the Squad Chat.

Give the SL one handgrenade (maybe the new egg handgrenade for germans). Why: because moar nades are always better : :D

Imo Smoke Nades are 10 times more usefull to a squad leader. Nothing helps to protect a storm on a flag more than a smoke nade.

I would also love to set waypoints on the map. Now you just can put an attackmarker on the map, but this does not show where to go. I highly doubt that this is possible, but waypoints would make leading more easier.

You can put 1 waypoint on the map with the move here command. Would be nice if there were like 3, but it helps, along with VoIP.
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: IrishReloaded on 02-03-2011, 17:03:02
Quote
...
Mortar attack, like the commander but called by the squadleaders. Limited for sure, and depending of the amount of the flags on a map.

Use the binoculars that every squadleader gets in his kit.
Computer made arty strike has not the same strenght of a one man mortar.

I know voip is enabled, as I'm one that uses it all the time.
Handgrenade: in addition to a smoke grenade, like the italien SL kit
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: Graf_Radetzky(CZ) on 02-03-2011, 18:03:15
I agree with Irish. On some maps isnt: 1. the commander table (thats shame) 2. human maned mortars.
Then, commander can be noob, etc.

Yes, the grenade, very succesfull as for italian SL, should be on rest IMO too.

Hm well that waypoint... i guess BF2 engine, as said....
Title: Re: New commander option
Post by: Vicious on 02-03-2011, 18:03:23
Could double points be given to squads that follow orders? If they are to attack or defend a flag and they do it.

Or somehow take away points from squads that don't follow orders until a kick follows sort of like they TKd too many times.