Yeah great another American tin can to shoot down (gotta love shooting them mooks out of their death traps). But spawnwaves...SPAWNWAVES!? This is one of the things that made FH1 so fun and we get it on FH2 too!? Oh man I'll probably start playing FH2 religiously yet again if the spawnwave system works just like bf1942.

...which I would be anyway if I didn't need an entirely new puter to play FH2 without problems...

but yeah!

Tin Can..check!
Spawnwaves...check!
Team spawns...check!
Bricks shat...there be brown trousers so double check!

Great update!

Ok don't forget in WWII, it was axis against allied... we don't need country... Its a bit fallacious for argument to say we don't need squad because a battlefield game is 32vs32. Bf2 engine isn't bf1942. We don't have wave respawn... that change the teamplay. We need squad to re-form groups.

Plus the squad exist in WWII, and this system simulate (in a non realistic way, because its a game) the squad attack.

You can still have your squad with your organized bunch of like-minded peers to accomplish your mission, just not that overpowered SL birthing system that allows you to mindlessly charge into the action due to the convenience of a nearby SL spawn. I daresay it requires even greater teamwork in a squad now in Anctoville given that you no longer have the crutch of an SL spawn.

Loving the APC spawn system for Anctoville. The biggest problem I saw with SL spawns is that a hiding SL can literally give birth to as many men as he wants as long as he stays hidden and doesn't foster teamplay as a whole concerning the team. APC spawns fixes that since your squad not only has to attack/defend a flag, but also defend a rather bulky spawnpoint from nutty AT soldiers and pesky tanks. One of the beautiful things I saw in that map was a convoy of the APC and 2 Shermans, with the Shermans acting as a shield against the panzers and enemy infantry while the APC kept on popping out mates in the rear. Sure squad teamplay as a whole is kind of ruined without SL birth, but teamplay as a whole improves when the team has another goal other than capping flags. Add in a SL/commander option to place spawnpoints in certain maps/areas and we can be rid of this SL spawnsystem all together!

The new animations for the mg's to prevent dolphin diving are great. Was wondering why the yellow bars weren't fully closing, but I keep on seeing that deviation is gone so shouldn't it be gone altogether? The recoil is rather horrendous even in short bursts. I'm all for making the weapon harder to use, but the recoil beyond the first 2-3 shots is ridiculous. What's the point of having 125 rounds per clip if you can't even fire 3-4 rounds without the weapon recoiling wildly around your screen? The Bren and the BAR works fine for me with short, controlled bursts so I'm not sure why the Germans are getting all the special attention.

A great release overall even if I'm not too big a fan of Mt.Olympus and some of the changes done to the game. I'd be more anal about the LMG's if I usually don't run around with an SMG, but hey I'm happy with the dolphin diving fix

Quote from: Akatsuki on 22-11-2009, 12:11:47

Let's not forget that they clan stack

Clan stackers are scum of the earth!

Only when they actually possess any threat whatsoever

A bit late, but I think I'll join in on this one.

This entire debate seems to have spawned from one person's experience playing maps in which his team keeps on winning/losing and therefore making the game incredibly unbalanced. It seems that Totalize is commonly used as an example as to why German armour is so uberly awesome and must be nerfed for the sake of making the lives of allied tankers easier.

I find Totalize to be balanced for a couple of reasons. For one thing, the Germans have to defend two completely opposite sides of the map and guess which side of the map is usually left undefended? If the allies could actually grow both a brain and a pair (rarely exist in pubs, but it does happen), then the Germans will find themselves backcapped and without two of their precious kitties. By the time they get their extra kitties, the bulk of allied armour should already be across the river, the 40's and 88's manned, and artillery raining death from above on some god-forsaken flag the Germans may still occupy. Yeah I know it sounds completely ridiculous but that's what combined arms gameplay is supposed to be about. Your inferior tank keeps getting owned by a superior German one? Spot it and watch it running off into the distance as it licks its wounds. Yeah I know I'm smoking something fierce to expect this from pub play, but I've been a a part of allied teams who have made this happen so...

The influx of imbalance complaints whenever new content rolls along never fails to amuse me. Rather than using the entirety of the allied assets to the fullest, people would rather go ahead and complain to make the game suit their needs.

Oh right this thread is about how Panthers should be 1-hit kill to the sides. Keep the 2-hit system in place given that it's already way too easy to nail a 'side' hit from a head-to-head engagement. Hell you can already 1-hit kill to the front if you have great aim so I don't really see the problem. Rather than trying to engage a superior foe 1 on 1, why not oh I don't know work as a team? Sounds stupid, but that's always an option right?

I actually felt sorry for the Germans who kept on spawning at Kidney...especially that player who you must have killed at least seven times. Excellent job on those panzers too, swear those HE shells do insane damage to tanks now. Should really start using my headset (well half a headset) more often, but its kind of eerie when you are the only one in voip. Actually had fun on El Al doing nothing but spotting and fending off the occasional enemy squad here and there.

Toilet is the best example how one squad can win the battle. Few times in PDH we captured all flags and destroyed all cannons in 6 americans. But this is A squad, I always have few clanmembers and they know exacly what is next step, know my tactics and are templay rambos.

My experience with PDH has shown that no one squad can win that map by themselves, especially when the rest of your team provides literally no help whatsoever when it comes to capping a flag. I remember this one instance where my squad had to literally cap flak emplacement all by ourselves as American. You had maybe half the team humping destroyed bunker and the other watching us around 1/4-1/2 of a grid away vainly trying to cap that flag. Had all my men (including myself) on that flag and it wouldn't even budge...great German defense. Even had our commander dropping artillery literally on top of us...nailed everyone in our squad except me since I'm a survivor

Maybe I'm just unlucky with PDH, but I haven't experienced a win as an American on this map yet when leading a squad. Well I've won once, but I joined like halfway through and was just dicking around with a zook. Quite funny to see a full squad with an SL running around with a zook in PDH

The problem I'm seeing in PHL (on American servers anyway since you'll rarely see me on a Euro server) is that the Germs refuse to defend the 2nd and 3rd un-recappable flags. Usually all of the time, some squad manages to sneak behind and take bridge 4 or the causeway. Things can only go downhill from there if the Germs haven't bled the allies enough. A couple of s-mines on known flanking routes should be used to alert on any incoming allied squads, but I've rarely seen this put into practice. Really a shame to see competent squads ignoring the rear defense, but I guess you can't really expect all that much from public play.

And I've been here in the forums, but I just prefer to lurk more

I've been thinking about squad tactics and whatnot in FH2 ever since the 2.2 patch release and figured I may as well put them in writing. Well without further ado...

So you've decided to create/join a squad, well good for you! You are about to experience some of the best teamplay FH2 can offer...is what I want to say, but we all know that's far from the truth. Rarely do you see a large majority of the server population within (competent) squads and for good reason. It's already hard enough to find a decent squad outside of your cliques, let alone a semi-competent squad leader to lead you into battle.

This guide is meant to provide the essential basics that both a squad leader and squad member should know to work as a relatively cohesive unit with minimal communication, which is typical of public games.


The Squad Leader - The Commander is a lie!

#1 - Always assign objectives and take the time to explain them. Let your squad mates know why you chose that location to attack/defend/etc. A short and brief explanation should be enough to let your mates know of the immediate objectives at hand. Also base your objectives on the dynamic of the battlefield. Don't vainly attack one flag while another is in danger of falling to the enemy. Be attentive of your command map and choose the best course of action based on the data at hand. Try to follow the commands of the commander (if any) as much as possible, but feel free to completely ignore it if the commander gives a ludicrous order. For example, a German commander ordering your squad holding the harbor flag to help attack the city flags or the church. While the city flags are necessary to unlock the church and taking it to unlock the British main, capping the harbor flag is relatively easy and a good squad will then move to cap the office in the span of less than thirty seconds.

#2 - Never be the  "point man" so to speak. Though that is counterproductive in my opinion since a leader should lead by example, not hiding half a grid away from a flag to act as some spawnpoint. At the very least, don't be the first one in to the immediate area of the flag. Let your mates test the waters first. For example, there is a gap in the hedgerow while assaulting a heavily exposed flag. Rather than being the first one in, let a mate go first and see whether the coast is clear. This may sound obvious, but you'll be surprised at how some people don't instinctively know of this simple maneuver.

#3 - Always spawn with a kit containing smoke grenades. Well maybe not all of the time, but you better if you are assaulting a flag. The NCO kit exists for a reason and you better damn well use it effectively!

#4a - How one assaults a flag is up to the discretion of the SL. I have my own ways of assaulting flags with my squad and you should formulate your own techniques. Only you can decide...if you can actually get your squad of randoms to listen to you that is.

#4b - After capping a flag, always tell your squad to sweep the area. Don't just get complacent and go for another flag. Expect a counterattack of some sort from the opposition still around the area, especially if there is an active enemy squad within the vicinity. If you ninja the flag, then be prepared to encounter heavy resistance once that flag turns gray.

#5a - Defend flags! It sounds so simple, but rarely any squads in public play will actually defend a flag if they are the attacking team. Though it is completely up to you to decide whether to attack or defend, do at least consider defending a recently captured flag at least until reinforcements can spawn in.

#5b - While defending a flag, instruct your squad to be as exposed as possible. Now you are probably thinking why direct them to expose themselves if they will only make themselves ample targets? The answer to that is simple and what you are probably thinking of! Few in the FH2 community can resist shooting an easy target, such as stationary or exposed infantry. You can use this to your advantage as an early warning system of sorts, alerting you to any enemies in the vicinity. Rather than be caught unaware while they move in at some gap in your defense, you can now form a barrier around the flag while scouting around for the potential location of the enemy SL (if any). This only works if your squad is paying attention to the chat and to the kill messages, but hey that's one way of keeping your squad in the game while defending some out of the way flag.

#6 - Do not hesitate to use your mates as your own personal meat shields, lemmings, and/or pawns to keep you alive. Your main job is to act as a forward spawn for your mates, so it should be self explanatory that you are the most important member when it comes to maintaining an assault. Let your mates know that when it comes to prioritizing their life and yours, always prioritize the SL.


The Squad Member - The Squad Leader's meatshield!

#1 - Always obey the directives handed over by your SL. If you don't like what he has to say, then go ahead and find yourself another squad to be in. Every member in the squad is vital to the assault or defense of a flag and it is disheartening to see green blips on some other part of the map without some specific order for them to be at that location.

#2 - Always be the first one through gaps in walls, holes, or any corner in a "danger zone" in place of your SL. By danger zone, I mean any area with a high likelihood of numerous enemy combatants (such as flag areas). You are replaceable and while your SL can respawn, getting to some parts of the map can be a huge pain in the ass. You should know what I'm talking about if you played as an American in Purple Heart Lane.

#3 - If at all possible, try to spawn with a kit containing smoke grenades. Not neccessary, but a plus since the two given to the SL is usually insufficient in creating enough cover for an advance. Though never use it unless directed to in the midst of an operation. Though if you see your SL chucking them, that is usually a good indicator that you can lob them as well. Use it at your own discretion. Also, try to spawn with the indicated kit your SL informs you of. If the SL informs of an immediate need of AT, get yourself an AT kit or spawn with one at the next spawn wave. If you are informed of the need of repairs, then get yourself an engineer kit. Completely optional, but not everything can be solved with a bullet.

#4 - Know when not to fire your weapon! There are instances when moving from point to point like a ninja is better than firing off a round and alerting your presence to nearby enemy troops. Has less of an effect if you use an enemy weapon (like a German with an M1), but it still exposes your presence and alerts anyone smart enough to check their minimap, kill messages, or the dude who should report to his team after he respawned. Also, do not under any circumstances outside of impending death for your SL discharge your weapon next to his hiding location. A decent SL will have found a relatively concealed location to act as a spawnpoint and discharging your weapon close to him may alert them to his location. Though any half-decent team would know that an assault is usually backed up by an SL, don't make their job of finding the whereabouts of your SL any easier. In fact, you should be doing the complete opposite!

#5a - After capping a flag, automatically go ahead and sweep through the immediate surroundings of the flag. Without even being told to, start sweeping through houses, vegetation, and basically every nook and cranny a pesky infantry or SL can hide in. If you ninja'ed a flag, then find yourself a nice spot preferably near the cap radius and prepare for a counterattack. Know where your SL is and protect him at all costs until reinforcements spawn in.

#5b - The sign of a competent (or at least a tactical) SL is if he instructs you to defend a flag while on the attacking team. We all know that assaulting is definitely more exciting than sitting at some flag to defend, but hey somebody has to do it. You'll be surprised at how much action a captured flag receives, especially when it is the flag that decides the turn of the bleed.

#6 - Do not hesitate to sacrifice yourself to protect the SL. If you don't prefer the walk to your forward position, then protect your SL at all costs! If the squad is pinned down by a tank with no AT weapon in sight, then don't be afraid to play the hero to distract the tank. You might just buy your SL a few precious seconds to move to a safer location, ensuring another favorable spawn location for you and with hopefully a nasty surprise for that tank. The SL is the king and you are its pawns so know your place!


I hope this guide has been relatively useful to both new and old SL's alike as well as your average squad grunt. There are some more specific tips I would like to add, but figured it made the guide a tad too specific to certain styles of gameplay. Made the choice to keep it as a general guide and though I have a few more ideas in my head, I can't put them into words at the moment so I will probably update this later on.

Comments and criticism alike are much appreciated!