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Forgotten Hope 2 => Tactics & Tutorials => Topic started by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 17-03-2010, 15:03:20

Title: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 17-03-2010, 15:03:20
My two cents for tanking.

Rule #1, DON'T USE WLAN!
If you are, you would usually come head-to-head with a Panzer that can kill you with a single shot and the infamous "YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOUR CONNETCTION" pops up, and when it goes away, you're dead.

Rule #2, Hull-down positions
Hiding that tall Sherman aluminium foil hull will increase your chances of surviving tank vs anything-else- that's-not-airborne combat. The turret is harder to hit, since it's a rather small target. Note that this also applies to tall self-propelled guns. (read: marder-series)

Rule #3, Smoke shells are not rubbish
When attacking, fire smoke shells to create defilades from anti-tank guns. Also, if you get hit but are still burning, fire a smoke shell between you and the shooter, then retreat to a not-obvious direction, meaning: don't go backwards. Move behind the nearest cover and repair, which leads to the next rule:

Rule #4, Take an engineer kit
Don't take limited kits with you if you decide to go tanking, since you'll block the kit from other players. Also that wrench comes handy if you manage to bail out of your tank before it's destroyed and fix something, say, a PAK gun to avenge your tanks fate. The explosives are useful, if you know you can't repair the tank in time or you are out of ammo and other people decide to be pillocks and not get an ammo truck, blow the tank up, so it spawns faster.

Rule #5, Tanks have different roles.
If your tank has a slow turret or it doesn't have one, defend with it. Anticipate the enemy's movements and wait in their flank to maximize the potential of the gun. Also applies to Tigers, but they are better in fire support role with their heavy armour. The Churchill, however, is best used as a plow. Lead the attack with your heavily armored fast turreted tank. If a defending tank shoots at you, the armor can take it, then just blast the guy.  StuGs are different. Their low profile makes ambushing easy. wait under trees for that sherman to expose himself. Also works in bocage country. Sitting low, you will be able to see targets sooner from under the branches than the opposing tall Sherman can see you.

See drawing:
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Die Happy on 17-03-2010, 15:03:04
awesome picture :D

paint rox
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 17-03-2010, 16:03:31
he man thanks :o you are very right. :D
i can use this style of tank warfare
but i used it already but thanks.

here is 1
rule 6: USE INFANTRY.
use infantry to help the tank when you go in a urban place
the inf. can kill any infantry that try to get a BOMB on you from the back.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: therenas on 17-03-2010, 17:03:15
Rule #7:

Combine different tank types for maximum performance.
A big slow tank might be able to fight heavily armored enemies, but is all too vulnerable to enemy infantry or fast tank destroyers. Light tanks like the Stuart, Pz. II or armored cars like the M8 Greyhound or Puma can watch your back and take out light armored enemies and infantery very quick.

Rule #8:

Don't underestimate the power of speed in armored combat. While speed is not a great advantage in the open field it can save your ass in medium to close quarter combat in urban areas or in the French countryside with its small fields and narrow roads. You can excape before a big tank can bring its aim on you or use hit and run tactics on infantry or up to medium armored vehicles. Best suited for these tactics are light tanks and armored cars.

I don't agree with rule #1 though... I use Wlan and do not have any issues with my connection speed and stability.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Thorondor123 on 17-03-2010, 17:03:15

Rule #2, Hull-down positions

Cromwell + hull down position + Totalize = dead Panthers
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 17-03-2010, 18:03:53
RULE 9 : kiss my ass. 8)
don't every drive away from a tank fight with your back at the enemy, they will get fast kill
or use your end to get the enemy thinking that your ther and then when he comes ther you drive to his back and shot him :D
or you get him to a point wher he has to look around corner and then your waiting ther.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 17-03-2010, 18:03:41
Right, continuation:

Rules #6, #7, #8 and #9 are very true.

Although there ar esome things to add:

Add-on to rule #6:

If you are tanking as a squad leader hold back a bit, because people are spawning on you. When they do, put some people to secure the flanks from AT soldiers. by holding back, i mean stay in well covered places, so they can disembark and get to cover quickly. There's no use in charging forward into an open field with a tank full of people straight into an 88mm barrel. Or 75mm.

Nothing to add to number 7.

Add-on to rule 8: use the speed of achilles or cromwells, and now Hellcats, to get behind that pesky Tiger and shove some ap rounds in the place under the tail, aka ass.

Number 9: indeed, always reverse, if you want to get away, and combine with rule #3.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Kev4000 on 18-03-2010, 06:03:37
Cromwell + hull down position + Totalize = dead Panthers

Couldn't be more wrong.

Cromwell + flank + Totalize or Goodwood = dead Panthers

Cromwell is amazing for being sneaky. Come from where the enemy is not expecting you. Cross the river on totalize. Go beyond the railroad tracks on Goodwood. Doing this you can sneak up on all the camping panthers (you already know where these are!), blast 'em, and allow your team to advance.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: :| Hi on 18-03-2010, 06:03:17
Cromwell <3!  A great tank for flanking. Its low profile allows you to hide under trees or in ditches, all the while combing the horizon for the idiot in the tiger that you know is going to arrive!
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Mud Buddha on 18-03-2010, 14:03:29
Probably just a by-rule, but:
Know when to NOT take a tank. I notice this a lot on big one-way assault tank maps (like Totalize), maps where one team is defending.  The attacking team loses because everyone is back in main waitjng for a tank. And even if there are enough tanks in the field the team still loses because the tanks are nowhere near a cap-able flag, just hiding out looking for enemy tanks.

So then you've got a double bleed: no flags and infantry (i.e. me) is dying constantly because its impossible to cap an enemy flag without any decent armor support.

Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: therenas on 18-03-2010, 16:03:49
I definately agree on that. Tanks are not the only way to score in this game... in fact they are not even the best way... but many players only go for kill count even though teamwork and capturing flags gives more points... I like driving a tank... but if I respawn and there is no tank available I just hop into the next available vehicle thats around to get to the front or fight the enemy. Better a soldier without tank than no soldier...
... even worse there are some players that not only wait for a tank but for a particular tank...
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: ajappat on 19-03-2010, 00:03:36
Sometimes it's just better to rush towards enemy. Alam halfa for good example. Best way to cap first flags, is rushing forward without stopping. If everyone does this, first flag is captured in first wave. Specially in afrika map enemy usually don't have any means to destroy you if you drive circle and shoot HE around you.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 19-03-2010, 18:03:41
em he is right.
the tanks are meant for TANK support.
each tank has its stuf.
like the guy who started this sad.
each tank has a role in the game.
LIKE: FIREFLY= tank killer
        SHERMAN= INF support tank ( or light tank killer,it can't kill panther)
        cromwell= can be used for almost every thing sherman 2.
        TIGER= a very good tank killer in the right hands
        KING TIGER= also good tank killer but has slow moving turrent and that's its weak point.

the tank get inf support but also have to give tank support.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Roden on 19-03-2010, 19:03:49
Try to have a  teammate in the hull mg position !

what you want to try do is  point  the front in the general direction of enemy infatry while you watches another  way, did it with great succes on SOT a few days back between the two last bunker flag
i watched the western will hull gunner takes care off pining the east down

and we did have voip  so we could call out if there is a tank aprouching


Heavy tanks works best in a  more "defensive" type of role duh to there slow speed
letting the lighter tanks do the dirt job will you stay abit back (specially with tiger) and cover the lighter ones

 
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: therenas on 19-03-2010, 22:03:27
Not to mention that manning the hull MG gives massive kill help points if the driver is skilled... yeah free trophies  ;D
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 20-03-2010, 21:03:32
(\_/)
(="=)
(")(")
yea you will get lots of driver assists
but the guy in the MG has to know what he is doing.
and the dud who is driving the tank must trust him.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: therenas on 21-03-2010, 20:03:07
No no... I meant the guy manning the hull MG gets assist points from the driver when he kills enemies... of course the hull MG guy might also get some kills...
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 22-03-2010, 19:03:25
oke but i will not go in hull mg if ther is a .30 on the sherman ;D
i am fan of the .30 cal machine gun ;D :P
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Mud Buddha on 23-03-2010, 12:03:55
I just thought of another by-law for tankers (although it's more of an addendum to one of my previous posts):

- If you're a squadleader, don't go waiting around at main for your favorite tank. You're just being useless. Of course it's okay to spawn at main to get a tank and then head out to the front . But sometimes you as a squadmember try to take a flag your leader orders you to but he's constantly at main waiting on that one tank he likes so much. As a squadleader imo, you should be where the action is (or, even better, hidden way near the action ;)). If necessary order one of your squadmembers to go get a tank at mainbase.

Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 23-03-2010, 14:03:15
he is right.
squadleader is a good way to spawn at the action.
the squadleader can leave the tanks for the teammates
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: ajappat on 23-03-2010, 14:03:03
When using tank as squad leader (i'm SL 95% of time) I order teammates to scout ahead on foot. They let me know if enemy tank is closing in, so I have surprise element. Ofcourse on bigger open areas they hop in but hills, bushes and buildings are always checked by inf before I move 1 inch closer.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 23-03-2010, 15:03:14
tank warfare get pwnd by inf warfare or air warfare
and inf get killed by............
(http://www.g4g.it/phpnews/images/Call_of_duty_4_Halloween_01.jpg) ;D
no just a joke
inf get killed by other inf or a tank that spots them and gets lucky
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: :| Hi on 24-03-2010, 06:03:23
Roberto2, I'm positively sure fellow forumer's get what kills what, but please try to keep it relatively on topic
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 24-03-2010, 19:03:47
oke.
now how can i tank kill infantry very good ?
need some help
i am getting killed by infantry to much will i am in tank.
all the time the infantry kill me are at villers bogage
any tips ?
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Slayer on 24-03-2010, 19:03:26
Yes.

1) Don't expose your back, or guard it with your gun (this is when your tank is turned around)
2) Park near walls etc, so only the superstructure of your tank is exposed. This makes AT weapons less useful.
3) Load HE first. When you spot an enemy tank, an AP hell is loaded soon enough and then you fcan shoot him. Infantry is very fast, so you don't have the time. Blast the HE at them and they will die very fast. Use the MG while reloading HE shells.
4) Get company of friendly infantry. Read ajappats post for more info.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Mobilis_in_Mobili on 24-03-2010, 22:03:56

... even worse there are some players that not only wait for a tank but for a particular tank...
[/quote]

There's nothing wrong with waiting for a particular tank; you just don't want the whole team doing it.  Maximum effective use of a squad is to have a wide range of 'products' to eliminate the enemy; which includes the rare ''tank killer" vehicles.  On several occasions, I've seen it take 3-4 minutes for a squad I joined - to organize.  However, once the proper vehicles were chosen, we wheeled out together and wreaked havoc on enemy positions.

Often I have asked at the start of a game (with the 60 second lead/wait before everyone can enter the grid) to use a particular vehicle, and have had little opposition (this usually works on more organized servers).  If you prove effective enough, you usually don't get a bunch of no's (negatives). 
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: hslan.totaler_humbug on 25-03-2010, 00:03:38
3) Load HE first. When you spot an enemy tank, an AP hell is loaded soon enough and then you fcan shoot him. Infantry is very fast, so you don't have the time. Blast the HE at them and they will die very fast. Use the MG while reloading HE shells.

Really? I allways load special ammunition first, than normal AP. Since you will then get the first hits shure kills. Also I would never drive around when I could expect an enemy tank with HE loaded. If you don´t get the infantry it´s not that tragically then getting killed by a P IV facing his rear to you, just because you needed to load the correct ammunition.
Infantry doesn´t kill you as effective as enemy tanks, so be prepared for them (also because one killed tank gives a minimum of points for 3 infantry guys).
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: :| Hi on 25-03-2010, 01:03:55
I would have to agree with Totaler, I always load special shells before regular
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: therenas on 25-03-2010, 01:03:49
Yeah I agree with that. Tank vs. tank combat is often first shot, first kill, so loading the best armor piercing ammo is cruicial... infantry targets are easy kills with MG... in fact loading HE is useless... because infantry either ambushes tanks so that they can't shoot back or you can avoid them with the tank if you have seen them. I only switch to HE to clear our infantry hiding in buildings or behind cover... or sometimes at long range where MG has not enough accuracy.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: :| Hi on 25-03-2010, 02:03:51
Yeah, I use HE on buildings before my squad members storm it or when an area is hot and needs heavy support
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Kubador on 26-03-2010, 01:03:34
For me, HE is your best friend. Say what you want but there is more infantry on a map than tanks. Ofcourse using different ammo type depends on situation you're currently in so awarness is most powerfull asset for a tank. If you enter empty space or suspect enemy tanks use AP (duh), in close quarters HE just shreds enemy infatry. Even if you see enemy infantry getting to your butt a single shot to the nearby ground takes care of them. I also suggest using HE instead of MG if you spot infantry in a distance. 1. You can take them down really fast with just one shot and 2. You won't draw attention of enemy tanks. Firing MG at planes or distant infantry on a frontline is the best way to give away your position. Use MG on close to mid ranges only or if you are certain of your safety.

There is a very important rule I'd like to share with. It mostly applies to tanks but infantery could use it as well.

Don't be afraid of sacrifice. Charging and breaking enemy defences and what's most important bringing chaos into enemy lines can be a gamebraker. Even if you die it is very likely that those who were behind you will use the gap you made for them and capture that flag.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Ionizer on 26-03-2010, 02:03:04
Don't be afraid of sacrifice. Charging and breaking enemy defences and what's most important bringing chaos into enemy lines can be a gamebraker. Even if you die it is very likely that those who were behind you will use the gap you made for them and capture that flag.

"Yay, distraction" is something I say at least once every FH2 session I play, and it's exactly what it looks like: Right after I die, the guy who killed me was killed by one of my teammates and I'm happy.  Whether or not that outcome was my original intent...well, it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 26-03-2010, 19:03:26
BLITZKRIEG.
you guy's could use that but in this way:
1. 1 guy just drives treu the enemy line very fast to distract the enemy
2. then out of no wher the allied/axis army just drives treu the cap

the enemy was to busy with that 1 guy that they didn't nottice the army behind him ;D
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Slayer on 26-03-2010, 21:03:01
3) Load HE first. When you spot an enemy tank, an AP hell is loaded soon enough and then you fcan shoot him. Infantry is very fast, so you don't have the time. Blast the HE at them and they will die very fast. Use the MG while reloading HE shells.

Really? I allways load special ammunition first, than normal AP. Since you will then get the first hits shure kills. Also I would never drive around when I could expect an enemy tank with HE loaded. If you don´t get the infantry it´s not that tragically then getting killed by a P IV facing his rear to you, just because you needed to load the correct ammunition.
Infantry doesn´t kill you as effective as enemy tanks, so be prepared for them (also because one killed tank gives a minimum of points for 3 infantry guys).

I was replying to the question of roberto: how to kill infantry with a tank ;)

When on Goodwood, for example, I have AP loaded as well, but as soons as I approach Cagny, I change to HE.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 26-03-2010, 21:03:42
oke thx guy's it helped a bit.
i mad a 24 kill and 0 deaths in a tank  :D
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: THeTA0123 on 26-03-2010, 22:03:48
For me, HE is your best friend. Say what you want but there is more infantry on a map than tanks. Ofcourse using different ammo type depends on situation you're currently in so awarness is most powerfull asset for a tank. If you enter empty space or suspect enemy tanks use AP (duh), in close quarters HE just shreds enemy infatry. Even if you see enemy infantry getting to your butt a single shot to the nearby ground takes care of them. I also suggest using HE instead of MG if you spot infantry in a distance. 1. You can take them down really fast with just one shot and 2. You won't draw attention of enemy tanks. Firing MG at planes or distant infantry on a frontline is the best way to give away your position. Use MG on close to mid ranges only or if you are certain of your safety.

this^

HE is the sherman tanker its best friend, you would be amazed how much kills you can rank up against infantery

Sure, you are shit against tanks, but if you get killed by one, but you ripped trough a flag with 15 Kills on your marker, you did a fine job

The best way is to just lob shells from far, safe from all those nooby panzerfausts/shrecks ( ;) i dint start the fire!)
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 27-03-2010, 15:03:42
he guy's what is the effectif range of a tank??
i killed a tank with achilles at totalize from 500+ meters
what if i go farter ?
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Slayer on 27-03-2010, 15:03:45
Then you have to aim higher. And it will take more shots to kill.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 27-03-2010, 16:03:16
the damage will not be as much as if you wher in close range ?
damage will go lower ?
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Slayer on 27-03-2010, 16:03:20
Yes, but we're talking big distances now. Fogdistance etc.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Mud Buddha on 27-03-2010, 18:03:08
"what if i go farter ?"

To paraphraze the late, great Eazy E:
"If it can be seen, it can be hit. If it can be hit, it can be killed."   ;)
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: therenas on 29-03-2010, 00:03:05
So basically distance does make a difference in battle and ambushing does have an effect even if you do not catch the enemy of guard from the side or the rear but at least the damage increases?

I thought distance would not matter as BF2 does not consider the angle of hit... but well... you never stop learning...
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Die Happy on 29-03-2010, 10:03:11
distance matters

a lot
specially on smaller caliber guns

take the british 2pdr for example

on distances below 100 meter i can kill any german tank in africa (expect tiger) with 1 shot in the side.
when above 100m you need 2 shots in side above 200m you need 3 shots  ...

same goes for all weapons (except HEAT ammo weapons) , even hand weapons "loose" damage over distance.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: ajappat on 29-03-2010, 15:03:59
same goes for all weapons (except HEAT ammo weapons) , even hand weapons "loose" damage over distance.

Good to know, I always tought that. Seems to be very usual to get hit over greater distances with rifle but only getting wounded.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 29-03-2010, 20:03:02
oke so its this:
1. close range 1 go BOOM
2. farter the close range 2 shots go BOOM
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: ajappat on 29-03-2010, 22:03:42
oke so its this:
1. close range 1 go BOOM
2. farter the close range 2 shots go BOOM

Yes I think die happy just said it.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Thorondor123 on 29-03-2010, 22:03:06
Note that that was just an example using the 2 pounder and a Panzer III.
Weaker guns can't damage thick armour even from close ranges and large high velocity guns can destroy weaker armour from very long ranges with just one shot.
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: THeTA0123 on 29-03-2010, 22:03:20
another example is the sherman vs Panther

On long range's you will need 3 shots on its sides
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 29-03-2010, 22:03:29
Indeed, close range it's one shot and "goodbye, mr.Bond"
Title: Re: Tank roles by Steel_Lion_FIN
Post by: roberto2 on 01-04-2010, 14:04:50
okay thx ;D